From dofdear at cox.net  Tue Jan 10 11:51:22 2017
From: dofdear at cox.net (Dan C. aka Thumper)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 9:51:22 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] The PCT-L is Back - Happy New Year
Message-ID: <20170110125122.3KUWB.148444.imail@fed1rmwml106>

Ryan and Brick, Thanks for your hard work in recovering this most valuable resource.  Happy New Year to you both and the Hiking Community at large.

Thumper aka dofdear

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Tue Jan 10 13:21:29 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 13:21:29 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] The PCT-L is Back - Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <20170110125122.3KUWB.148444.imail@fed1rmwml106>
References: <20170110125122.3KUWB.148444.imail@fed1rmwml106>
Message-ID: <78A63C33-F742-4C40-BD11-B8FB1F16595C@gmail.com>

Love seeing posts on the PCT-L. Happy New Year folks. Spring is so close!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 10, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Dan C. aka Thumper <dofdear at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> Ryan and Brick, Thanks for your hard work in recovering this most valuable resource.  Happy New Year to you both and the Hiking Community at large.
> 
> Thumper aka dofdear
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From thelyn at icloud.com  Tue Jan 10 14:46:11 2017
From: thelyn at icloud.com (Lyn Turner)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:46:11 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] The PCT-L is Back - Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <78A63C33-F742-4C40-BD11-B8FB1F16595C@gmail.com>
References: <20170110125122.3KUWB.148444.imail@fed1rmwml106>
 <78A63C33-F742-4C40-BD11-B8FB1F16595C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3518AF16-83CB-4B23-8234-DD8A376800BE@icloud.com>

And a very Happy New Year to you, Sabrina, and all the folks out there who love the PCT.

Scottish Lyn

Sent from my iThing


> On 10 Jan 2017, at 19:21, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Love seeing posts on the PCT-L. Happy New Year folks. Spring is so close!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 10, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Dan C. aka Thumper <dofdear at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Ryan and Brick, Thanks for your hard work in recovering this most valuable resource.  Happy New Year to you both and the Hiking Community at large.
>> 
>> Thumper aka dofdear
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From moodyjj at comcast.net  Wed Jan 11 06:27:51 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:27:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] The PCT-L is Back - Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <20170110125122.3KUWB.148444.imail@fed1rmwml106>
References: <20170110125122.3KUWB.148444.imail@fed1rmwml106>
Message-ID: <1183215111.86660621.1484137671174.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Thank goodness. I thought my lack of list emails was due to my ISP spam filter acting independently. Glad to see it wasn't just me. 

Has the same thing been happening with the cdt list? 

Mango 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dan C. aka Thumper" <dofdear at cox.net> 
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 12:51:22 PM 
Subject: [pct-l] The PCT-L is Back - Happy New Year 

Ryan and Brick, Thanks for your hard work in recovering this most valuable resource. Happy New Year to you both and the Hiking Community at large. 

Thumper aka dofdear 
_______________________________________________ 
Pct-L mailing list 
Pct-L at backcountry.net 
To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 

List Archives: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 


From veselyjames at gmail.com  Wed Jan 11 07:53:31 2017
From: veselyjames at gmail.com (James Vesely)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2017 05:53:31 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] The PCT-L is Back - Happy New Year
In-Reply-To: <1183215111.86660621.1484137671174.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <20170110125122.3KUWB.148444.imail@fed1rmwml106>
 <1183215111.86660621.1484137671174.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAMxQpsz7L62FvTieTzRyfDoNjmi8D2F77wLVhTx6rRfSATS+8g@mail.gmail.com>

5 - 10 feet of snow with blizzard like conditions, 100+ mph wind gusts at
passes.  Should be interesting to see what this does to all those weak and
dying trees from the drought.


http://weatherwest.com/archives/5152

Jim




On Jan 11, 2017 4:28 AM, "Jim & Jane Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:

Thank goodness. I thought my lack of list emails was due to my ISP spam
filter acting independently. Glad to see it wasn't just me.

Has the same thing been happening with the cdt list?

Mango

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dan C. aka Thumper" <dofdear at cox.net>
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 12:51:22 PM
Subject: [pct-l] The PCT-L is Back - Happy New Year

Ryan and Brick, Thanks for your hard work in recovering this most valuable
resource. Happy New Year to you both and the Hiking Community at large.

Thumper aka dofdear
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From weathercarrot at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 11 11:22:54 2017
From: weathercarrot at hotmail.com (Weathercarrot -)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:22:54 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Jan 11th CA Snowpack Chart
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB107397CE276CF9DDEB9FBAE5AE660@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Latest chart came out this morning.


Sierra showing between 156 and 187 percent of normal to date, more than twice what it showed a week ago.  This is despite snow levels maxing out around 10k during the height of the weekend storm.


http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action

From andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com  Wed Jan 11 22:48:53 2017
From: andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com (Andrea Dinsmore)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:48:53 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Jan 11th CA Snowpack Chart
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR13MB107397CE276CF9DDEB9FBAE5AE660@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN6PR13MB107397CE276CF9DDEB9FBAE5AE660@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAD=4stGAhRvGOWk6WW1i4oii+h8BCHiLXAabL1w7cNymFPkx+A@mail.gmail.com>

Think may make for a lot of flipping around the Sierra area for the early
starters ??

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Weathercarrot - <weathercarrot at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Latest chart came out this morning.
>
>
> Sierra showing between 156 and 187 percent of normal to date, more than
> twice what it showed a week ago.  This is despite snow levels maxing out
> around 10k during the height of the weekend storm.
>
>
> http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Thu Jan 12 14:54:49 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 12:54:49 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] "Snow, snow, and snow. What shall we do?"
Message-ID: <04ea01d26d16$1d872570$58957050$@mountaineducation.org>

OMG. "Snow, snow, and snow. What shall we do?"

 

Don't sweat it. You're making a mountain out of a molehill!

 

A thru hike of something as long and epic as the Pacific Crest Trail is
going to make you experience challenges, awkwardness, pain, discomfort,
doubt, insecurity, and fears. Confronting and overcoming them will build you
into a strong and vibrant individual, ready to find and live life, however
it comes. 

 

A thru hike of something as long and epic as the Pacific Crest Trail is not
a "walk in the park" and if you don't know that, you'd be wise to open your
eyes to it now while you're still home. You will not be sheltered from the
elements. You will have to confront, ready or not, all the inner and outer
issues listed above. Whether you want to or not should be on your minds
right now. This is good.

 

Whether you go NoBo or SoBo, you will run into snow somewhere along the
line. How long you have to walk on it (daily or for a couple of months), you
will have to accept or avoid. If you chose to dance around it, you may
discover that you've just wasted a lot of time and money to get nowhere. It
will all depend on what the season throws at you and your resolve to
overcome those trials, tests, and adversities. Snow is not your enemy.
However, what you bring with you, your thoughts, doubts, fears, and
inexperience, sure can be. 

 

So, what are you gonna do? 

 

South-bounders have to start on snow, but it's already consolidated and hard
enough to walk on. They don't have a choice. So they prepare for it, learn
about it, and get ready for the excitement of the challenge.

 

North-bounders (most of you) start on dry trail in the high desert their
first month out (except for a few blips of snow here and there in SoCal) and
get used to swinging their feet and making "easy miles," though they do have
to deal with their first adversary, little water, until they reach the
Sierra come May or June. 

 

"OMG, snow, snow, and snow. What shall we do?" 

 

The porch of the Kennedy Meadows General Store can be swarming with NoBo
thrus fretting about snow ahead, instead of rallying to the golden
opportunity they have to discover something new and invigorating.

 

"I can start late so that by the time I get to the Sierra all the snow will
be gone!" 

 

If the heat and dryness of the high desert doesn't send you home and if the
pace you have to maintain for months doesn't burn you out, you might make it
to Canada before the first snows stop you in your tracks. Maybe. The totally
determined will rise to this challenge, but is doing your hike this way why
you're out there on such an incredibly beautiful journey?

 

"If I start early, I'll have too much snow and I'll never get to Canada!" 

 

Here's the reality of the joys before you (from the KM porch), if you chose
to accept them,

 

1. You walk on top of consolidated snow. Easy.

2. You can dress for the cool and damp.

3. You can carry more food for the added effort.

4. You can learn how to stay safe and make wise decisions.

5. You can learn how to cross creeks. 

6. You can manage your time and money to go the distance.

7. You can slow down and soak up all the glory around you.

 

You can!

 

Entertaining fears and trepidations can cause you to balk, delay, and avoid.
One of the first rules of battle is to make your adversary doubt! If you
allow yourself to entertain these, you are your own worst enemy. To whom
will you chose to listen?

 

[If you felt like this was your gunnery sergeant getting in your face to
give you a pep talk, it was. Share it to help others. You can do this. Go
prepared.]

(c) Mountain Education, Inc. 2017

 

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From costevens078 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 12 15:45:22 2017
From: costevens078 at gmail.com (Casey Stevens)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 16:45:22 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
Message-ID: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like it's going to be a big snow year. And that means our journeys
will be all the more epic!

I'm trying to shoot this thru-hike in 100 days. And I don't plan on
failing... Even if there's snow...

My training began months ago. My nutrition is almost dialed in. I will be
hitting Campo in May, and as soon as my feet hit the ground I will be ready
to crank big days. I intend to go straight through without a flip-flop.
I am ready for the snow and the challenges it brings! I hope you are, too!

Here's a helpful link: http://www.postholer.com/journal/Pacific-Crest-Trail/
2011/gg-man/2011-01-16/Fast-Packing-the-PCT/20018

Malto did a 100 day thru-hike in 2011, which was also a huge snow year.
Even if you're not planning on going that fast, his journal talks a lot
about snow travel and the pains he faced while trying to make his target
speed. This has been an invaulable piece of information in my preparations.
And I'm sure it can help some others out this year, too!

Hope to see some of you out there. I'll have a website detailing my
preparations - food lists, gear list, nutrition guide, etc...  I'll share
it when I have the site up and running.

Good luck to you all. Hope to find a few speedsters looking to have some
fun in the snow!

Casey "Gandalf"

From necarsulmer at mac.com  Fri Jan 13 00:11:11 2017
From: necarsulmer at mac.com (Peter Necarsulmer)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 22:11:11 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
In-Reply-To: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8319A3E5-821B-4A0C-B176-5803C8DF9636@mac.com>

Ugh.  

Do let us know when you cross the finish line.  

Escargot ? 

> On Jan 12, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Casey Stevens <costevens078 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Looks like it's going to be a big snow year. And that means our journeys
> will be all the more epic!
> 
> I'm trying to shoot this thru-hike in 100 days. And I don't plan on
> failing... Even if there's snow...
> 
> My training began months ago. My nutrition is almost dialed in. I will be
> hitting Campo in May, and as soon as my feet hit the ground I will be ready
> to crank big days. I intend to go straight through without a flip-flop.
> I am ready for the snow and the challenges it brings! I hope you are, too!
> 
> Here's a helpful link: http://www.postholer.com/journal/Pacific-Crest-Trail/
> 2011/gg-man/2011-01-16/Fast-Packing-the-PCT/20018
> 
> Malto did a 100 day thru-hike in 2011, which was also a huge snow year.
> Even if you're not planning on going that fast, his journal talks a lot
> about snow travel and the pains he faced while trying to make his target
> speed. This has been an invaulable piece of information in my preparations.
> And I'm sure it can help some others out this year, too!
> 
> Hope to see some of you out there. I'll have a website detailing my
> preparations - food lists, gear list, nutrition guide, etc...  I'll share
> it when I have the site up and running.
> 
> Good luck to you all. Hope to find a few speedsters looking to have some
> fun in the snow!
> 
> Casey "Gandalf"
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Fri Jan 13 01:50:56 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 23:50:56 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
In-Reply-To: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nzn9BpvdouAAAMXqw9G7wcN_AGi6rh=7xUw3bzT9bLddbw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Casey Stevens <costevens078 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to shoot this thru-hike in 100 days. And I don't plan on
> failing... Even if there's snow...

Doing the trail quickly is not about going fast. It is about doing
very long days with few breaks, and not taking zeros or neros.

If you enter the Sierra early, and have no footprints to follow, you
are going to need heavier equipment. And that will slow you down

Also you will be slowed down by postholing in the snow - slowed down a
lot. I went from 30+ mile days to less than 20 once I left Crabtree
Meadows... and that was hiking 15 hour days.
https://geezerhiker.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/postholing.jpg

You might want to watch the snow data, and plot the melt rate, then
change your departure date so that you miss the snow

visit
http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snow/PAGE6
and look at Upper Tyndall Creek. The water content there is more than
double what it was a week ago.

From costevens078 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 06:08:42 2017
From: costevens078 at gmail.com (Casey Stevens)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 07:08:42 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nzn9BpvdouAAAMXqw9G7wcN_AGi6rh=7xUw3bzT9bLddbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzn9BpvdouAAAMXqw9G7wcN_AGi6rh=7xUw3bzT9bLddbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFxDeYKU-rG2YNxFHPvg05V2BnAUTp32a5F3fj=ijq8+Y-bSpQ@mail.gmail.com>

Appreciate the admonishments!

See you all out there!

Casey "Gandalf"
On Friday, January 13, 2017, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Casey Stevens <costevens078 at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > I'm trying to shoot this thru-hike in 100 days. And I don't plan on
> > failing... Even if there's snow...
>
> Doing the trail quickly is not about going fast. It is about doing
> very long days with few breaks, and not taking zeros or neros.
>
> If you enter the Sierra early, and have no footprints to follow, you
> are going to need heavier equipment. And that will slow you down
>
> Also you will be slowed down by postholing in the snow - slowed down a
> lot. I went from 30+ mile days to less than 20 once I left Crabtree
> Meadows... and that was hiking 15 hour days.
> https://geezerhiker.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/postholing.jpg
>
> You might want to watch the snow data, and plot the melt rate, then
> change your departure date so that you miss the snow
>
> visit
> http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snow/PAGE6
> and look at Upper Tyndall Creek. The water content there is more than
> double what it was a week ago.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net <javascript:;>
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Fri Jan 13 13:53:30 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:53:30 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
In-Reply-To: <CAFxDeYKU-rG2YNxFHPvg05V2BnAUTp32a5F3fj=ijq8+Y-bSpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzn9BpvdouAAAMXqw9G7wcN_AGi6rh=7xUw3bzT9bLddbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFxDeYKU-rG2YNxFHPvg05V2BnAUTp32a5F3fj=ijq8+Y-bSpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nzkp8NCbzfzsEBPPZZDJ39kcef+ojOAdUeLijN=iKXOH2g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:08 AM, Casey Stevens <costevens078 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Appreciate the admonishments!

Snow is what seems to concern folks about early entry into the Sierra,
but snow is really not that big a deal. Postholing is a pain and slows
you down, but if you carry and iceaxe and you know how to use it, then
snow travel is fairly safe, just be careful of falling through the
snow into voids caused by running water.

The REAL danger is getting killed in stream crossings. Most of the big
rivers will have bridges, but many of the "jump across" streams will
be swollen to raging waist deep (or deeper) torrents.

I was swept away at Bear Creek, and could have easily been killed.
Kerrick Canyon was downright scary, and a fall would have been deadly.

I had to cross Evolution Creek (in the meadows, well upstream of the
normal crossing) by putting my pack in a bag, and swimming in the
freezing runoff water. Crossing at the normal ford would have been
deadly.

The water was so high that wading was require at both sides of the
Glen Aulin Bridge over the Tuolumne river.

The snow may slow you down, but the water will kill you.

Be careful out there

From baidarker at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 15:54:43 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:54:43 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nzkp8NCbzfzsEBPPZZDJ39kcef+ojOAdUeLijN=iKXOH2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzn9BpvdouAAAMXqw9G7wcN_AGi6rh=7xUw3bzT9bLddbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFxDeYKU-rG2YNxFHPvg05V2BnAUTp32a5F3fj=ijq8+Y-bSpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzkp8NCbzfzsEBPPZZDJ39kcef+ojOAdUeLijN=iKXOH2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj13W2LbgxRRy8jTq-ODwS+0LBFvBNt8f05aasMn7Yd03Sw@mail.gmail.com>

I completely agree with Brick regarding the relative safety of snow with
the right gear and technique, vs the very real danger of the swollen
streams.  In 2010, a high snow year due to a very late melt out, we also
had to go well upstream of the usual little summer crossing of Evolution
Creek,  and made human chains to get the lighter weight members of our
party across Bear Creek.  That one was really scary.

One of my favorite pieces of gear that year were full on Kahtoola hiking
crampons.  They're relatively light and allow you to cut steps and do the
kind of plunge stepping you'll need.  Much better in real Sierra snow pack
than Microspikes and only a touch heavier.  My buddy Venture in cramps, had
to cut steps last year for folks with Microspikes who's spikes had "balled
up" so badly they couldn't go forward.  In really serious, crusty, icy
early season conditions, I much prefer real hiking cramps.

A good light weight ice axe was also essential to safely belay yourself on
the steep traverses, for cutting steps, and for safe glissading.

Another thing we did because of the high snow was to head out of Lone Pine
with a group of friends who promised to stay together through the High
Sierra to Sonora Pass.  Not only was this a safe move, it gave all of us
the most wonderful if hard backpacking experience of our lives.  I count
all these folks as some of my dearest friends to this day.

With all of this, keep in mind that all can change in a few weeks of early
warm weather, or virtually overnight given a heavy "pineapple express" rain
storm.  But being ready to change up your strategy and gear is often
essential for a thru hike.

Have a wonderful hike!  The snow only adds to the fun you'll have if you're
prepared for it.

Shroomer

On Jan 13, 2017 11:53 AM, "Brick Robbins" <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:08 AM, Casey Stevens <costevens078 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Appreciate the admonishments!
>
> Snow is what seems to concern folks about early entry into the Sierra,
> but snow is really not that big a deal. Postholing is a pain and slows
> you down, but if you carry and iceaxe and you know how to use it, then
> snow travel is fairly safe, just be careful of falling through the
> snow into voids caused by running water.
>
> The REAL danger is getting killed in stream crossings. Most of the big
> rivers will have bridges, but many of the "jump across" streams will
> be swollen to raging waist deep (or deeper) torrents.
>
> I was swept away at Bear Creek, and could have easily been killed.
> Kerrick Canyon was downright scary, and a fall would have been deadly.
>
> I had to cross Evolution Creek (in the meadows, well upstream of the
> normal crossing) by putting my pack in a bag, and swimming in the
> freezing runoff water. Crossing at the normal ford would have been
> deadly.
>
> The water was so high that wading was require at both sides of the
> Glen Aulin Bridge over the Tuolumne river.
>
> The snow may slow you down, but the water will kill you.
>
> Be careful out there
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From jwberg77 at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 13 16:25:44 2017
From: jwberg77 at yahoo.com (Jack Waayenberg)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 22:25:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj13W2LbgxRRy8jTq-ODwS+0LBFvBNt8f05aasMn7Yd03Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzn9BpvdouAAAMXqw9G7wcN_AGi6rh=7xUw3bzT9bLddbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFxDeYKU-rG2YNxFHPvg05V2BnAUTp32a5F3fj=ijq8+Y-bSpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzkp8NCbzfzsEBPPZZDJ39kcef+ojOAdUeLijN=iKXOH2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj13W2LbgxRRy8jTq-ODwS+0LBFvBNt8f05aasMn7Yd03Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1531647056.4422713.1484346344909@mail.yahoo.com>

 blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white !important; } Thank you for the encouragement and info always great to hear from those of you who have gone before us .Kodiak?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad


On Friday, January 13, 2017, 4:54 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> wrote:

I completely agree with Brick regarding the relative safety of snow with
the right gear and technique, vs the very real danger of the swollen
streams.? In 2010, a high snow year due to a very late melt out, we also
had to go well upstream of the usual little summer crossing of Evolution
Creek,? and made human chains to get the lighter weight members of our
party across Bear Creek.? That one was really scary.

One of my favorite pieces of gear that year were full on Kahtoola hiking
crampons.? They're relatively light and allow you to cut steps and do the
kind of plunge stepping you'll need.? Much better in real Sierra snow pack
than Microspikes and only a touch heavier.? My buddy Venture in cramps, had
to cut steps last year for folks with Microspikes who's spikes had "balled
up" so badly they couldn't go forward.? In really serious, crusty, icy
early season conditions, I much prefer real hiking cramps.

A good light weight ice axe was also essential to safely belay yourself on
the steep traverses, for cutting steps, and for safe glissading.

Another thing we did because of the high snow was to head out of Lone Pine
with a group of friends who promised to stay together through the High
Sierra to Sonora Pass.? Not only was this a safe move, it gave all of us
the most wonderful if hard backpacking experience of our lives.? I count
all these folks as some of my dearest friends to this day.

With all of this, keep in mind that all can change in a few weeks of early
warm weather, or virtually overnight given a heavy "pineapple express" rain
storm.? But being ready to change up your strategy and gear is often
essential for a thru hike.

Have a wonderful hike!? The snow only adds to the fun you'll have if you're
prepared for it.

Shroomer

On Jan 13, 2017 11:53 AM, "Brick Robbins" <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:08 AM, Casey Stevens <costevens078 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Appreciate the admonishments!
>
> Snow is what seems to concern folks about early entry into the Sierra,
> but snow is really not that big a deal. Postholing is a pain and slows
> you down, but if you carry and iceaxe and you know how to use it, then
> snow travel is fairly safe, just be careful of falling through the
> snow into voids caused by running water.
>
> The REAL danger is getting killed in stream crossings. Most of the big
> rivers will have bridges, but many of the "jump across" streams will
> be swollen to raging waist deep (or deeper) torrents.
>
> I was swept away at Bear Creek, and could have easily been killed.
> Kerrick Canyon was downright scary, and a fall would have been deadly.
>
> I had to cross Evolution Creek (in the meadows, well upstream of the
> normal crossing) by putting my pack in a bag, and swimming in the
> freezing runoff water. Crossing at the normal ford would have been
> deadly.
>
> The water was so high that wading was require at both sides of the
> Glen Aulin Bridge over the Tuolumne river.
>
> The snow may slow you down, but the water will kill you.
>
> Be careful out there
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.




From troopharrison at gmail.com  Sat Jan 14 10:00:53 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:00:53 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj13W2LbgxRRy8jTq-ODwS+0LBFvBNt8f05aasMn7Yd03Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzn9BpvdouAAAMXqw9G7wcN_AGi6rh=7xUw3bzT9bLddbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFxDeYKU-rG2YNxFHPvg05V2BnAUTp32a5F3fj=ijq8+Y-bSpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzkp8NCbzfzsEBPPZZDJ39kcef+ojOAdUeLijN=iKXOH2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj13W2LbgxRRy8jTq-ODwS+0LBFvBNt8f05aasMn7Yd03Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C714E9B1-EA5F-49E8-B2E7-EA34EB8B84CA@gmail.com>

Thanks Shroomer, always appreciate your insights

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 13, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I completely agree with Brick regarding the relative safety of snow with
> the right gear and technique, vs the very real danger of the swollen
> streams.  In 2010, a high snow year due to a very late melt out, we also
> had to go well upstream of the usual little summer crossing of Evolution
> Creek,  and made human chains to get the lighter weight members of our
> party across Bear Creek.  That one was really scary.
> 
> One of my favorite pieces of gear that year were full on Kahtoola hiking
> crampons.  They're relatively light and allow you to cut steps and do the
> kind of plunge stepping you'll need.  Much better in real Sierra snow pack
> than Microspikes and only a touch heavier.  My buddy Venture in cramps, had
> to cut steps last year for folks with Microspikes who's spikes had "balled
> up" so badly they couldn't go forward.  In really serious, crusty, icy
> early season conditions, I much prefer real hiking cramps.
> 
> A good light weight ice axe was also essential to safely belay yourself on
> the steep traverses, for cutting steps, and for safe glissading.
> 
> Another thing we did because of the high snow was to head out of Lone Pine
> with a group of friends who promised to stay together through the High
> Sierra to Sonora Pass.  Not only was this a safe move, it gave all of us
> the most wonderful if hard backpacking experience of our lives.  I count
> all these folks as some of my dearest friends to this day.
> 
> With all of this, keep in mind that all can change in a few weeks of early
> warm weather, or virtually overnight given a heavy "pineapple express" rain
> storm.  But being ready to change up your strategy and gear is often
> essential for a thru hike.
> 
> Have a wonderful hike!  The snow only adds to the fun you'll have if you're
> prepared for it.
> 
> Shroomer
> 
>> On Jan 13, 2017 11:53 AM, "Brick Robbins" <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:08 AM, Casey Stevens <costevens078 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Appreciate the admonishments!
>> 
>> Snow is what seems to concern folks about early entry into the Sierra,
>> but snow is really not that big a deal. Postholing is a pain and slows
>> you down, but if you carry and iceaxe and you know how to use it, then
>> snow travel is fairly safe, just be careful of falling through the
>> snow into voids caused by running water.
>> 
>> The REAL danger is getting killed in stream crossings. Most of the big
>> rivers will have bridges, but many of the "jump across" streams will
>> be swollen to raging waist deep (or deeper) torrents.
>> 
>> I was swept away at Bear Creek, and could have easily been killed.
>> Kerrick Canyon was downright scary, and a fall would have been deadly.
>> 
>> I had to cross Evolution Creek (in the meadows, well upstream of the
>> normal crossing) by putting my pack in a bag, and swimming in the
>> freezing runoff water. Crossing at the normal ford would have been
>> deadly.
>> 
>> The water was so high that wading was require at both sides of the
>> Glen Aulin Bridge over the Tuolumne river.
>> 
>> The snow may slow you down, but the water will kill you.
>> 
>> Be careful out there
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Sat Jan 14 10:43:28 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:43:28 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>

Hey Marco3x! Welcome back.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2016, at 11:13 PM, adin <xraylimaperu at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, I'm back. How many people now on the list were here in 2003? I recall
> the discussions related to ultra-light, light, standard, and needing a
> group of Nepalese sherpas to help lug all the gear ;-). I recall being a
> supporter of mid-high boots and about a 25 pound pack. Well, that set off
> an uproar!
> 
> But now, 14 years later, age and mishaps have taken their toll, and I'm an
> ultra-light kind of guy--I have no choice.
> 
> I hope all are well and adventuring. I'm at about 6 miles per trek. It's
> hard to believe both where I once was and where I am now.
> 
> Good luck to you, one and all.
> 
> marco3x
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From baidarker at gmail.com  Sat Jan 14 22:39:14 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 20:39:14 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, welcome back is right!  Geezers rock!  I just keep hiking at whatever
pace I can do and it's all good.  And, because I can't afford a Nepalese
Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the winter, and
man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my youth.  I
have to go UL or not go at all at this point.

Glad to have you back.

Shroomer

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hey Marco3x! Welcome back.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 17, 2016, at 11:13 PM, adin <xraylimaperu at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Well, I'm back. How many people now on the list were here in 2003? I
> recall
> > the discussions related to ultra-light, light, standard, and needing a
> > group of Nepalese sherpas to help lug all the gear ;-). I recall being a
> > supporter of mid-high boots and about a 25 pound pack. Well, that set off
> > an uproar!
> >
> > But now, 14 years later, age and mishaps have taken their toll, and I'm
> an
> > ultra-light kind of guy--I have no choice.
> >
> > I hope all are well and adventuring. I'm at about 6 miles per trek. It's
> > hard to believe both where I once was and where I am now.
> >
> > Good luck to you, one and all.
> >
> > marco3x
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 00:08:19 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 22:08:19 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>

I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I enjoy 
the enthusiasm and naivety there.  Perhaps there is another use for this 
forum, now pretty dead for a couple years.

Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at whatever pace 
I can do and it's all good."  The other one makes me cringe a bit - 
"Geezers Rock."

What use is this forum?  Right now it's dead.  I'd love to hear stories 
of situations others can learn from, without being told what they should 
do.  Maybe young people would join and participate.  I love stories...

Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA)


On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote:
> Yeah, welcome back is right!  Geezers rock!  I just keep hiking at whatever
> pace I can do and it's all good.  And, because I can't afford a Nepalese
> Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the winter, and
> man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my youth.  I
> have to go UL or not go at all at this point.
>
> Glad to have you back.
>
> Shroomer
>


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From hikermiker at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 15 05:31:17 2017
From: hikermiker at yahoo.com (Mike Cunningham)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 11:31:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Eat N Tool
References: <237895233.5241384.1484479877688.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <237895233.5241384.1484479877688@mail.yahoo.com>

Has anyone tried one of these?

It seems that it is heavy at 1.4 oz. That it has a shallow bowl & stingy tines, and some useless metric wrench cutouts but it has a flat head screwdriver and a cap lifter.

The compactness interests me but do you get your hand all gooey trying to eat with it?

Anyway any real world use reports would be of interest.

hikermiker

From moodyjj at comcast.net  Sun Jan 15 06:45:17 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 12:45:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

When I first joined this list in 2009 there was lots of discussion about useful topics - water treatment, shoes, navigation, physical training, waste disposal & sanitation, etc. Plus, a lot of opinionated people got into arguments, and a few told some funny jokes that offended the thin-skinned among us. We newbies would ask questions and receive numerous, often conflicting answers. But I learned a lot. Maybe somebody could start a thread on one of these topics. I would, but I'm hungry and I need to go fix breakfast. Maybe later today. 

Mango 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com> 
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:08:19 AM 
Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 

I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I enjoy 
the enthusiasm and naivety there. Perhaps there is another use for this 
forum, now pretty dead for a couple years. 

Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at whatever pace 
I can do and it's all good." The other one makes me cringe a bit - 
"Geezers Rock." 

What use is this forum? Right now it's dead. I'd love to hear stories 
of situations others can learn from, without being told what they should 
do. Maybe young people would join and participate. I love stories... 

Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA) 


On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote: 
> Yeah, welcome back is right! Geezers rock! I just keep hiking at whatever 
> pace I can do and it's all good. And, because I can't afford a Nepalese 
> Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the winter, and 
> man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my youth. I 
> have to go UL or not go at all at this point. 
> 
> Glad to have you back. 
> 
> Shroomer 
> 


--- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
https://www.avast.com/antivirus 

_______________________________________________ 
Pct-L mailing list 
Pct-L at backcountry.net 
To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 

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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 


From sesexton at gci.net  Sat Jan 14 23:40:04 2017
From: sesexton at gci.net (sesexton at gci.net)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 20:40:04 -0900
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CCB037F8-0B95-4CBA-94B3-EEB025EF6C50@gci.net>

Yeah. Geezers really rock. Like, like, like x 10!  Awesome geezers !!!!!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 14, 2017, at 7:39 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yeah, welcome back is right!  Geezers rock!  I just keep hiking at whatever
> pace I can do and it's all good.  And, because I can't afford a Nepalese
> Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the winter, and
> man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my youth.  I
> have to go UL or not go at all at this point.
> 
> Glad to have you back.
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hey Marco3x! Welcome back.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 17, 2016, at 11:13 PM, adin <xraylimaperu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, I'm back. How many people now on the list were here in 2003? I
>> recall
>>> the discussions related to ultra-light, light, standard, and needing a
>>> group of Nepalese sherpas to help lug all the gear ;-). I recall being a
>>> supporter of mid-high boots and about a 25 pound pack. Well, that set off
>>> an uproar!
>>> 
>>> But now, 14 years later, age and mishaps have taken their toll, and I'm
>> an
>>> ultra-light kind of guy--I have no choice.
>>> 
>>> I hope all are well and adventuring. I'm at about 6 miles per trek. It's
>>> hard to believe both where I once was and where I am now.
>>> 
>>> Good luck to you, one and all.
>>> 
>>> marco3x
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
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From troopharrison at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 13:27:33 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 13:27:33 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
 <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>

I'm a newbie, and I'm not a certified geezer, but I'm a pre-geezer perhaps, as a 42yo. 

I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild if I surprise myself and crush miles. 

I love hearing the stories on here, and have secret crushes on JMT Reinhold and Switchback. 

I'd love any stories or advice you want to send my way. in the spirit of disclosure, I must admit that I have been accused of having a "crap load of questions," so just know that before you open up a can of worms!

Sabrina :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 6:45 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> When I first joined this list in 2009 there was lots of discussion about useful topics - water treatment, shoes, navigation, physical training, waste disposal & sanitation, etc. Plus, a lot of opinionated people got into arguments, and a few told some funny jokes that offended the thin-skinned among us. We newbies would ask questions and receive numerous, often conflicting answers. But I learned a lot. Maybe somebody could start a thread on one of these topics. I would, but I'm hungry and I need to go fix breakfast. Maybe later today. 
> 
> Mango 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> From: "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com> 
> To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:08:19 AM 
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 
> 
> I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I enjoy 
> the enthusiasm and naivety there. Perhaps there is another use for this 
> forum, now pretty dead for a couple years. 
> 
> Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at whatever pace 
> I can do and it's all good." The other one makes me cringe a bit - 
> "Geezers Rock." 
> 
> What use is this forum? Right now it's dead. I'd love to hear stories 
> of situations others can learn from, without being told what they should 
> do. Maybe young people would join and participate. I love stories... 
> 
> Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA) 
> 
> 
>> On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote: 
>> Yeah, welcome back is right! Geezers rock! I just keep hiking at whatever 
>> pace I can do and it's all good. And, because I can't afford a Nepalese 
>> Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the winter, and 
>> man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my youth. I 
>> have to go UL or not go at all at this point. 
>> 
>> Glad to have you back. 
>> 
>> Shroomer 
>> 
> 
> 
> --- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Pct-L mailing list 
> Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> 
> List Archives: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From briandid at telusplanet.net  Sun Jan 15 14:27:47 2017
From: briandid at telusplanet.net (Brian Forestell)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 13:27:47 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Snow in the Sierrras
Message-ID: <1534AB2EFBF4407F80CDB48D80A0B4A0@PC01>

    Brian (aka Trouble)




From sbryce at scottbryce.com  Sun Jan 15 14:41:41 2017
From: sbryce at scottbryce.com (Scott Bryce)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 13:41:41 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
 <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6660e00e-bade-5cb3-dfba-22578e353658@scottbryce.com>

On 1/15/2017 12:27 PM, Sabrina Harrison wrote:
> I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo
> to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild
> if I surprise myself and crush miles.


Campo to Warner Springs really isn't that far. Odds are, you will crush
the miles.

From briandid at telusplanet.net  Sun Jan 15 17:21:05 2017
From: briandid at telusplanet.net (Brian Forestell)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 16:21:05 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Snow in the Sierrras
Message-ID: <DAFDDA9C41BE460F9CBA746D753F02D7@PC01>


It was great that Weathercarrot posted the link to the snow across California.  Here is a link to the site that tracks the snow in the Sierras.  http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/sweq.action   In the southern Sierras the snowpack is a whopping 197% of normal for this time.  The central Sierra (Walker Pass up to about Donner Pass) is at 163 % of normal.  In Mammoth this month they had an enormous amount of snow that dumped on them.  At the main lodge they have had over 12 feet of snow.  The main lodge sits at about 7900 feet.  The top of the mountain which sits at about 11,000 feet ( Forrester Pass is at 13,200) had almost double that amount of snow.  The accumulated base at the top of the mountain is about 22.5 feet.  

One of the biggest hiking seasons for snow was in 2011.  The cdec.water.ca site allows you to look at what historical levels were at other times.  You change the date an hit refresh.  On January 14, 2011 the snow pack in the Central Sierras was at 166% of normal.  Current levels are not far off from those.

Here is the link to  current snow conditions at Mammoth http://www.mammothmountain.com/winter/mountain-information/mountain-information/snow-conditions-and-weather   If you scroll down you can look at the extended snow history.  This tracks the amount of snow at the main lodge.  I have been following the site pretty closely and was surprized at how much extra snow fell at the top of the mountain.  Unfortunately they don?t track that info on that site.  The summit cam is now buried in snow.  Mammoth Ski resort is just down the hill from Devils Postpile/Red?s Meadow.  It is admittedly about 80 aerial miles away from Forrester Pass but it does give you an indication of how high snow levels are.  The big dumps of snow often occur later in the season.  The existing snow levels don?t predict what it going to be like in June.  However, it does mean that hikers need to follow the snow pack carefully and make safe decisions.  If you don?t know how to arrest yourself with an ice axe this might be the year you learn how to do it.  The latest version of micro spikes would be a good investment.  ttps://kahtoola.com/product/microspikes/

We don?t know what snow levels are going to be in April.  It could start to dry up and temperatures could climb melting the snow.  The intention of this email was to bring attention to the ?potential? of difficulties this year.  I have to admit that there is also a part of me that, like Chicken Little in the fable, is crying, ?The snow is falling...the snow is falling.? 

May all of you be safe this summer.

Brian aka Trouble


From sebastian.opalko at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 18:19:00 2017
From: sebastian.opalko at gmail.com (sebastian.opalko at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 19:19:00 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Snow in the Sierrras
Message-ID: <qhfrf70eadqb3qvm3n45qf73.1484525940267@email.lge.com>

I don't ever reply or write here but I do much appreciate all the info you guys send. Thanks.
------ Original message------From: Brian ForestellDate: Sun, Jan 15, 2017 6:21 PMTo: pct-l at backcountry.net;Cc: Subject:Re: [pct-l] Snow in the Sierrras
It was great that Weathercarrot posted the link to the snow across California.  Here is a link to the site that tracks the snow in the Sierras.  http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/sweq.action   In the southern Sierras the snowpack is a whopping 197% of normal for this time.  The central Sierra (Walker Pass up to about Donner Pass) is at 163 % of normal.  In Mammoth this month they had an enormous amount of snow that dumped on them.  At the main lodge they have had over 12 feet of snow.  The main lodge sits at about 7900 feet.  The top of the mountain which sits at about 11,000 feet ( Forrester Pass is at 13,200) had almost double that amount of snow.  The accumulated base at the top of the mountain is about 22.5 feet.  One of the biggest hiking seasons for snow was in 2011.  The cdec.water.ca site allows you to look at what historical levels were at other times.  You change the date an hit refresh.  On January 14, 2011 the snow pack in the Central Sierras was at 166% of normal.  Current levels are not far off from those.Here is the link to  current snow conditions at Mammoth http://www.mammothmountain.com/winter/mountain-information/mountain-information/snow-conditions-and-weather   If you scroll down you can look at the extended snow history.  This tracks the amount of snow at the main lodge.  I have been following the site pretty closely and was surprized at how much extra snow fell at the top of the mountain.  Unfortunately they don?t track that info on that site.  The summit cam is now buried in snow.  Mammoth Ski resort is just down the hill from Devils Postpile/Red?s Meadow.  It is admittedly about 80 aerial miles away from Forrester Pass but it does give you an indication of how high snow levels are.  The big dumps of snow often occur later in the season.  The existing snow levels don?t predict what it going to be like in June.  However, it does mean that hikers need to follow the snow pack carefully and make safe decisions.  If you don?t know how to arrest yourself with an ice axe this might be the year you learn how to do it.  The latest version of micro spikes would be a good investment.  ttps://kahtoola.com/product/microspikes/We don?t know what snow levels are going to be in April.  It could start to dry up and temperatures could climb melting the snow.  The intention of this email was to bring attention to the ?potential? of difficulties this year.  I have to admit that there is also a part of me that, like Chicken Little in the fable, is crying, ?The snow is falling...the snow is falling.? May all of you be safe this summer.Brian aka Trouble_______________________________________________Pct-L mailing listPct-L at backcountry.netTo unsubscribe, or change options visit:http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-lList Archives:http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 18:35:21 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 18:35:21 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <6660e00e-bade-5cb3-dfba-22578e353658@scottbryce.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
 <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>
 <6660e00e-bade-5cb3-dfba-22578e353658@scottbryce.com>
Message-ID: <9B82E60B-7EDA-4C89-B70B-E4ECCB17D3CF@gmail.com>

Why thanks! I'm excited for sure. I'll update you guys in June and tell you how it went. :)
Sabrina 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 2:41 PM, Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/15/2017 12:27 PM, Sabrina Harrison wrote:
>> I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo
>> to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild
>> if I surprise myself and crush miles.
> 
> 
> Campo to Warner Springs really isn't that far. Odds are, you will crush
> the miles.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 18:38:08 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 18:38:08 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <1540612675.89675021.1484509616581.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
 <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>
 <1540612675.89675021.1484509616581.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <DDE59308-0C44-4527-9814-C8C6027AFEF1@gmail.com>

Right now I'm trying out different trail runners to find one I like. I know it's a personal choice, but I'm looking for recommendations on ones to try out. 

I've tried Brooks Cascadias - they were just okay. 

I'm ordering some La Sportiva Wildcats next. 

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Sabrina,
> Pick a subject that you are unsure of, and we'll try to elaborate on it.  Water treatment?  Maps?  Water availability in mid-May? Physical conditioning?
> Mango
> 
> From: "Sabrina Harrison" <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> To: "Jim & Jane Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 2:27:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> 
> I'm a newbie, and I'm not a certified geezer, but I'm a pre-geezer perhaps, as a 42yo. 
> 
> I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild if I surprise myself and crush miles. 
> 
> I love hearing the stories on here, and have secret crushes on JMT Reinhold and Switchback. 
> 
> I'd love any stories or advice you want to send my way. in the spirit of disclosure, I must admit that I have been accused of having a "crap load of questions," so just know that before you open up a can of worms!
> 
> Sabrina :)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jan 15, 2017, at 6:45 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> > 
> > When I first joined this list in 2009 there was lots of discussion about useful topics - water treatment, shoes, navigation, physical training, waste disposal & sanitation, etc. Plus, a lot of opinionated people got into arguments, and a few told some funny jokes that offended the thin-skinned among us. We newbies would ask questions and receive numerous, often conflicting answers. But I learned a lot. Maybe somebody could start a thread on one of these topics. I would, but I'm hungry and I need to go fix breakfast. Maybe later today. 
> > 
> > Mango 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > 
> > From: "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com> 
> > To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
> > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:08:19 AM 
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 
> > 
> > I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I enjoy 
> > the enthusiasm and naivety there. Perhaps there is another use for this 
> > forum, now pretty dead for a couple years. 
> > 
> > Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at whatever pace 
> > I can do and it's all good." The other one makes me cringe a bit - 
> > "Geezers Rock." 
> > 
> > What use is this forum? Right now it's dead. I'd love to hear stories 
> > of situations others can learn from, without being told what they should 
> > do. Maybe young people would join and participate. I love stories... 
> > 
> > Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA) 
> > 
> > 
> >> On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote: 
> >> Yeah, welcome back is right! Geezers rock! I just keep hiking at whatever 
> >> pace I can do and it's all good. And, because I can't afford a Nepalese 
> >> Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the winter, and 
> >> man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my youth. I 
> >> have to go UL or not go at all at this point. 
> >> 
> >> Glad to have you back. 
> >> 
> >> Shroomer 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > --- 
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Pct-L mailing list 
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> > 
> > List Archives: 
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > 
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 

From grandpafaris at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 15 19:09:02 2017
From: grandpafaris at yahoo.com (Jim Faris)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:09:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] test
References: <837272660.3854568.1484528942277.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <837272660.3854568.1484528942277@mail.yahoo.com>

hello

From grandpafaris at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 15 19:10:53 2017
From: grandpafaris at yahoo.com (Jim Faris)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:10:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Test
References: <1412913672.3845633.1484529053413.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1412913672.3845633.1484529053413@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello

From grandpafaris at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 15 19:18:35 2017
From: grandpafaris at yahoo.com (Jim Faris)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:18:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] pct 2017 leaving May 5, 2017
References: <692517477.3824749.1484529515625.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <692517477.3824749.1484529515625@mail.yahoo.com>



From grandpafaris at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 15 19:26:21 2017
From: grandpafaris at yahoo.com (Jim Faris)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 01:26:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Snow Bound
References: <1672968161.3835857.1484529981996.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1672968161.3835857.1484529981996@mail.yahoo.com>



From timpnye at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 20:06:57 2017
From: timpnye at gmail.com (timpnye)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 18:06:57 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Sherpas
Message-ID: <3s35de3qfgpr9q24caow8xc4.1484532363473@email.android.com>

Back in 2002 I was Southbounding from Carson Pass to Tuolumne Meadows. I started the 4th of July and didn't see many Northbound erst, perhaps an equal number of Cowboys were out riding and fixing fence. North of Sonora Pass; they were a surly lot without a lot of patience for 'tree huggers', which I obviously was or I wouldn't be out there in the first place. They practiced a squint eyed look from the corners of their eyes.
Later in the same day after I had passed the three repairing 'bob' wire, I met two young guys heading North with tremendous loads. I myself was carrying a ridiculous amount, but nothing compared to the loads these young bucks had. I looked in vain to see the head strap tethering them to the top of their ungainly packs.
After a brief discussion, they broke out in complaints about their professor. He would pick out a couple of students each summer to accompany him while he hiked a few sections in exchange for college credit. These two had been fortunate enough to be selected in 2002. The students referred to themselves as 'sherpas' an noted the professor was a couple of hours behind them so they didn't dare dawdle.
Sure enough, I found the professor some time later. He was wandering up the trail carrying nothing but a smile on his face. It seems he had found a way to a slack pack the trail, likely in its entirety.
Gourmet

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 20:13:56 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:13:56 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Sherpas
In-Reply-To: <3s35de3qfgpr9q24caow8xc4.1484532363473@email.android.com>
References: <3s35de3qfgpr9q24caow8xc4.1484532363473@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <18182305-D161-4814-A5F8-8C15E2F9EC57@gmail.com>

That's hilarious! Thanks for sharing!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 8:06 PM, timpnye <timpnye at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Back in 2002 I was Southbounding from Carson Pass to Tuolumne Meadows. I started the 4th of July and didn't see many Northbound erst, perhaps an equal number of Cowboys were out riding and fixing fence. North of Sonora Pass; they were a surly lot without a lot of patience for 'tree huggers', which I obviously was or I wouldn't be out there in the first place. They practiced a squint eyed look from the corners of their eyes.
> Later in the same day after I had passed the three repairing 'bob' wire, I met two young guys heading North with tremendous loads. I myself was carrying a ridiculous amount, but nothing compared to the loads these young bucks had. I looked in vain to see the head strap tethering them to the top of their ungainly packs.
> After a brief discussion, they broke out in complaints about their professor. He would pick out a couple of students each summer to accompany him while he hiked a few sections in exchange for college credit. These two had been fortunate enough to be selected in 2002. The students referred to themselves as 'sherpas' an noted the professor was a couple of hours behind them so they didn't dare dawdle.
> Sure enough, I found the professor some time later. He was wandering up the trail carrying nothing but a smile on his face. It seems he had found a way to a slack pack the trail, likely in its entirety.
> Gourmet
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jimlbanks at verizon.net  Sun Jan 15 20:24:37 2017
From: jimlbanks at verizon.net (Jim L Banks)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 21:24:37 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <DDE59308-0C44-4527-9814-C8C6027AFEF1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <159a5173190-253e-10d8f@webprd-m57.mail.aol.com>


You might want to look at Altra trail runners.  They have become very popular the last few years.  Their toe box is actually shaped like your foot and allows your toes to splay out when you walk, like they naturally want to do.  They also have what is called a zero drop heal.  Read the information on their website to see what that is all about.  Most PCT hikers wear the Lone Peak model.  There is also a model that has more cushioning - the Olympus.  I wear the Lone Peaks when hiking and the Olympus when walking my dog because when I walk my dog I am mainly on concrete sidewalks and I need a little more cushioning.  I love these trail runners.  They also have a built in gaiter trap.  The only down side is that I really can't wear any other kind of shoes now that I have become accustomed to the wide toe box and the zero drop heal.  

I-Beam      
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
To: Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
Cc: pct l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2017 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003

Right now I'm trying out different trail runners to find one I like. I know it's a personal choice, but I'm looking for recommendations on ones to try out. 

I've tried Brooks Cascadias - they were just okay. 

I'm ordering some La Sportiva Wildcats next. 

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Sabrina,
> Pick a subject that you are unsure of, and we'll try to elaborate on it.  Water treatment?  Maps?  Water availability in mid-May? Physical conditioning?
> Mango
> 
> From: "Sabrina Harrison" <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> To: "Jim & Jane Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 2:27:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> 
> I'm a newbie, and I'm not a certified geezer, but I'm a pre-geezer perhaps, as a 42yo. 
> 
> I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild if I surprise myself and crush miles. 
> 
> I love hearing the stories on here, and have secret crushes on JMT Reinhold and Switchback. 
> 
> I'd love any stories or advice you want to send my way. in the spirit of disclosure, I must admit that I have been accused of having a "crap load of questions," so just know that before you open up a can of worms!
> 
> Sabrina :)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jan 15, 2017, at 6:45 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> > 
> > When I first joined this list in 2009 there was lots of discussion about useful topics - water treatment, shoes, navigation, physical training, waste disposal & sanitation, etc. Plus, a lot of opinionated people got into arguments, and a few told some funny jokes that offended the thin-skinned among us. We newbies would ask questions and receive numerous, often conflicting answers. But I learned a lot. Maybe somebody could start a thread on one of these topics. I would, but I'm hungry and I need to go fix breakfast. Maybe later today. 
> > 
> > Mango 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > 
> > From: "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com> 
> > To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
> > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:08:19 AM 
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 
> > 
> > I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I enjoy 
> > the enthusiasm and naivety there. Perhaps there is another use for this 
> > forum, now pretty dead for a couple years. 
> > 
> > Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at whatever pace 
> > I can do and it's all good." The other one makes me cringe a bit - 
> > "Geezers Rock." 
> > 
> > What use is this forum? Right now it's dead. I'd love to hear stories 
> > of situations others can learn from, without being told what they should 
> > do. Maybe young people would join and participate. I love stories... 
> > 
> > Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA) 
> > 
> > 
> >> On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote: 
> >> Yeah, welcome back is right! Geezers rock! I just keep hiking at whatever 
> >> pace I can do and it's all good. And, because I can't afford a Nepalese 
> >> Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the winter, and 
> >> man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my youth. I 
> >> have to go UL or not go at all at this point. 
> >> 
> >> Glad to have you back. 
> >> 
> >> Shroomer 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > --- 
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Pct-L mailing list 
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> > 
> > List Archives: 
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > 
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From troopharrison at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 20:38:39 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:38:39 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <159a5173190-253e-10d8f@webprd-m57.mail.aol.com>
References: <159a5173190-253e-10d8f@webprd-m57.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <72690DF3-CB42-44C7-B133-5B4D98066666@gmail.com>

Thank you so much! They are the next ones I plan to try. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 8:24 PM, Jim L Banks <jimlbanks at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> You might want to look at Altra trail runners.  They have become very popular the last few years.  Their toe box is actually shaped like your foot and allows your toes to splay out when you walk, like they naturally want to do.  They also have what is called a zero drop heal.  Read the information on their website to see what that is all about.  Most PCT hikers wear the Lone Peak model.  There is also a model that has more cushioning - the Olympus.  I wear the Lone Peaks when hiking and the Olympus when walking my dog because when I walk my dog I am mainly on concrete sidewalks and I need a little more cushioning.  I love these trail runners.  They also have a built in gaiter trap.  The only down side is that I really can't wear any other kind of shoes now that I have become accustomed to the wide toe box and the zero drop heal.  
>  
> I-Beam      
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> To: Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> Cc: pct l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2017 4:38 pm
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> 
> Right now I'm trying out different trail runners to find one I like. I know it's a personal choice, but I'm looking for recommendations on ones to try out. 
> 
> I've tried Brooks Cascadias - they were just okay. 
> 
> I'm ordering some La Sportiva Wildcats next. 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jan 15, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> > 
> > Sabrina,
> > Pick a subject that you are unsure of, and we'll try to elaborate on it. Water treatment? Maps? Water availability in mid-May? Physical conditioning?
> > Mango
> > 
> > From: "Sabrina Harrison" <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> > To: "Jim & Jane Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> > Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 2:27:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> > 
> > I'm a newbie, and I'm not a certified geezer, but I'm a pre-geezer perhaps, as a 42yo. 
> > 
> > I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild if I surprise myself and crush miles. 
> > 
> > I love hearing the stories on here, and have secret crushes on JMT Reinhold and Switchback. 
> > 
> > I'd love any stories or advice you want to send my way. in the spirit of disclosure, I must admit that I have been accused of having a "crap load of questions," so just know that before you open up a can of worms!
> > 
> > Sabrina :)
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Jan 15, 2017, at 6:45 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > 
> > > When I first joined this list in 2009 there was lots of discussion about useful topics - water treatment, shoes, navigation, physical training, waste disposal & sanitation, etc. Plus, a lot of opinionated people got into arguments, and a few told some funny jokes that offended the thin-skinned among us. We newbies would ask questions and receive numerous, often conflicting answers. But I learned a lot. Maybe somebody could start a thread on one of these topics. I would, but I'm hungry and I need to go fix breakfast. Maybe later today. 
> > > 
> > > Mango 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > 
> > > From: "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com> 
> > > To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:08:19 AM 
> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 
> > > 
> > > I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I enjoy 
> > > the enthusiasm and naivety there. Perhaps there is another use for this 
> > > forum, now pretty dead for a couple years. 
> > > 
> > > Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at whatever pace 
> > > I can do and it's all good." The other one makes me cringe a bit - 
> > > "Geezers Rock." 
> > > 
> > > What use is this forum? Right now it's dead. I'd love to hear stories 
> > > of situations others can learn from, without being told what they should 
> > > do. Maybe young people would join and participate. I love stories... 
> > > 
> > > Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA) 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >> On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote: 
> > >> Yeah, welcome back is right! Geezers rock! I just keep hiking at whatever 
> > >> pace I can do and it's all good. And, because I can't afford a Nepalese 
> > >> Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the winter, and 
> > >> man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my youth. I 
> > >> have to go UL or not go at all at this point. 
> > >> 
> > >> Glad to have you back. 
> > >> 
> > >> Shroomer 
> > >> 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- 
> > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________ 
> > > Pct-L mailing list 
> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> > > 
> > > List Archives: 
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > > 
> > > List Archives:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jimbravo2 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 22:50:56 2017
From: jimbravo2 at gmail.com (Jim Bravo)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:50:56 -0800
Subject: [pct-l]  Snow Bound
Message-ID: <CACMJFrCpDkhnDFA8s8_PHUXsfvqTwV7pkraFy-157c=szDX4Fg@mail.gmail.com>

That goes without saying.

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Mon Jan 16 00:32:34 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:32:34 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] pct 2017 leaving May 5, 2017
In-Reply-To: <692517477.3824749.1484529515625@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <692517477.3824749.1484529515625.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <692517477.3824749.1484529515625@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=_PDVfOeQxd_gVCLu5-cuHDRbgKA0CeT4SG2LXNpTyKw@mail.gmail.com>

it works.
now all you need to do is include some content in the body of the message

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Jim Faris <grandpafaris at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From baidarker at gmail.com  Mon Jan 16 00:47:25 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 22:47:25 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <72690DF3-CB42-44C7-B133-5B4D98066666@gmail.com>
References: <159a5173190-253e-10d8f@webprd-m57.mail.aol.com>
 <72690DF3-CB42-44C7-B133-5B4D98066666@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj12enmfU+tfRjEFwJw2D89DfaBn934bvhUUkZ+Q+M5gY4w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm with you on the Altras I-Beam.  And for all the reasons you've stated.
I wear the Instincts, which have a very soft sole, at home because they're
just so comfortable, and Lone Peaks for hiking.  Although today, I forgot
my hiking shoes and was forced to climb a mountain, 4,000' vertical and 17
miles, in the Instincts and they did fine.  My feet feel great this
evening, so the soft sole was not too soft for some pretty rocky trail.

Although they are incredibly comfortable, the Lone Peaks of the past have
had a problem with the uppers tearing out relatively quickly, sometimes
within a few hundred miles.  This seems to be solved by the newer models
having a non fabric section added to the upper at the point of wear.  The
newest models I just tried on at the Outdoor Retail show in SLC this past
week have added a series of rubberized plastic bands to the sides of the
uppers to help this even more, and the soles had even better traction.  A
great shoe.

The Lone Peaks are worn by almost all the serious thru hikers I know, and
some of the greatest in he country.  They are really comfortable.  And if
the new ones are more robust, they'll be even better.

Shroomer

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thank you so much! They are the next ones I plan to try.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 15, 2017, at 8:24 PM, Jim L Banks <jimlbanks at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > You might want to look at Altra trail runners.  They have become very
> popular the last few years.  Their toe box is actually shaped like your
> foot and allows your toes to splay out when you walk, like they naturally
> want to do.  They also have what is called a zero drop heal.  Read the
> information on their website to see what that is all about.  Most PCT
> hikers wear the Lone Peak model.  There is also a model that has more
> cushioning - the Olympus.  I wear the Lone Peaks when hiking and the
> Olympus when walking my dog because when I walk my dog I am mainly on
> concrete sidewalks and I need a little more cushioning.  I love these trail
> runners.  They also have a built in gaiter trap.  The only down side is
> that I really can't wear any other kind of shoes now that I have become
> accustomed to the wide toe box and the zero drop heal.
> >
> > I-Beam
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> > To: Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> > Cc: pct l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2017 4:38 pm
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> >
> > Right now I'm trying out different trail runners to find one I like. I
> know it's a personal choice, but I'm looking for recommendations on ones to
> try out.
> >
> > I've tried Brooks Cascadias - they were just okay.
> >
> > I'm ordering some La Sportiva Wildcats next.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jan 15, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sabrina,
> > > Pick a subject that you are unsure of, and we'll try to elaborate on
> it. Water treatment? Maps? Water availability in mid-May? Physical
> conditioning?
> > > Mango
> > >
> > > From: "Sabrina Harrison" <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> > > To: "Jim & Jane Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> > > Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 2:27:33 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> > >
> > > I'm a newbie, and I'm not a certified geezer, but I'm a pre-geezer
> perhaps, as a 42yo.
> > >
> > > I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo
> to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild if I
> surprise myself and crush miles.
> > >
> > > I love hearing the stories on here, and have secret crushes on JMT
> Reinhold and Switchback.
> > >
> > > I'd love any stories or advice you want to send my way. in the spirit
> of disclosure, I must admit that I have been accused of having a "crap load
> of questions," so just know that before you open up a can of worms!
> > >
> > > Sabrina :)
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Jan 15, 2017, at 6:45 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > When I first joined this list in 2009 there was lots of discussion
> about useful topics - water treatment, shoes, navigation, physical
> training, waste disposal & sanitation, etc. Plus, a lot of opinionated
> people got into arguments, and a few told some funny jokes that offended
> the thin-skinned among us. We newbies would ask questions and receive
> numerous, often conflicting answers. But I learned a lot. Maybe somebody
> could start a thread on one of these topics. I would, but I'm hungry and I
> need to go fix breakfast. Maybe later today.
> > > >
> > > > Mango
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > > From: "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com>
> > > > To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:08:19 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> > > >
> > > > I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I
> enjoy
> > > > the enthusiasm and naivety there. Perhaps there is another use for
> this
> > > > forum, now pretty dead for a couple years.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at whatever
> pace
> > > > I can do and it's all good." The other one makes me cringe a bit -
> > > > "Geezers Rock."
> > > >
> > > > What use is this forum? Right now it's dead. I'd love to hear stories
> > > > of situations others can learn from, without being told what they
> should
> > > > do. Maybe young people would join and participate. I love stories...
> > > >
> > > > Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote:
> > > >> Yeah, welcome back is right! Geezers rock! I just keep hiking at
> whatever
> > > >> pace I can do and it's all good. And, because I can't afford a
> Nepalese
> > > >> Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the
> winter, and
> > > >> man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my
> youth. I
> > > >> have to go UL or not go at all at this point.
> > > >>
> > > >> Glad to have you back.
> > > >>
> > > >> Shroomer
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > > >
> > > > List Archives:
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > > >
> > > > List Archives:
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From moodyjj at comcast.net  Mon Jan 16 05:16:47 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:16:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj12enmfU+tfRjEFwJw2D89DfaBn934bvhUUkZ+Q+M5gY4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <159a5173190-253e-10d8f@webprd-m57.mail.aol.com>
 <72690DF3-CB42-44C7-B133-5B4D98066666@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj12enmfU+tfRjEFwJw2D89DfaBn934bvhUUkZ+Q+M5gY4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <108303793.89947043.1484565407016.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

With all due respect to my mentor Shroomer, hiking shoes tend to become fads quickly, and like most fads, they fade just as quickly. Brooks Cascadias are comfortable but slightly less stiff than I prefer. I like Montrose Mountain Masochists as well as anything I've tried, but they're getting harder to find. I like a cushiony shoe more than the thin-sole feel (easier on legs and fewer stress fractures), so I double up on the inserts. To keep the inserts from making the shoe too tight, I buy the shoes about two (2) sizes bigger than what the salesman recommends. Larger shoes give your feet plenty of room to move around, assure a bigger toe box, handle the extra inserts without constricting blood flow, and provide room for your feet to swell in the desert and chaparral, as they almost always do. I haven't surveyed all hikers, but I personally have never heard of anybody getting a blister because their shoes were too big. My own experience is that blisters are caused by shoes that are too tight, not too loose. 

And speaking of blisters, I use toe socks as my inner sock and have never had a blister since I started wearing them (with larger shoes). Plus, they look really goofy, to go along with how the rest of me looks. 

In summary, don't buy shoes just because "... almost all the serious thru hikers ..." are wearing them this year. Try them, yes, but go with the shoe that has the specific characteristics that are best for your feet, not the crowds'. 

Good luck. 
Mango 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Scott Williams" <baidarker at gmail.com> 
To: "Sabrina Harrison" <troopharrison at gmail.com> 
Cc: "<Pct-l at backcountry.net>" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 1:47:25 AM 
Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 

I'm with you on the Altras I-Beam. And for all the reasons you've stated. 
I wear the Instincts, which have a very soft sole, at home because they're 
just so comfortable, and Lone Peaks for hiking. Although today, I forgot 
my hiking shoes and was forced to climb a mountain, 4,000' vertical and 17 
miles, in the Instincts and they did fine. My feet feel great this 
evening, so the soft sole was not too soft for some pretty rocky trail. 

Although they are incredibly comfortable, the Lone Peaks of the past have 
had a problem with the uppers tearing out relatively quickly, sometimes 
within a few hundred miles. This seems to be solved by the newer models 
having a non fabric section added to the upper at the point of wear. The 
newest models I just tried on at the Outdoor Retail show in SLC this past 
week have added a series of rubberized plastic bands to the sides of the 
uppers to help this even more, and the soles had even better traction. A 
great shoe. 

The Lone Peaks are worn by almost all the serious thru hikers I know, and 
some of the greatest in he country. They are really comfortable. And if 
the new ones are more robust, they'll be even better. 

Shroomer 

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> 
wrote: 

> Thank you so much! They are the next ones I plan to try. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
> > On Jan 15, 2017, at 8:24 PM, Jim L Banks <jimlbanks at verizon.net> wrote: 
> > 
> > You might want to look at Altra trail runners. They have become very 
> popular the last few years. Their toe box is actually shaped like your 
> foot and allows your toes to splay out when you walk, like they naturally 
> want to do. They also have what is called a zero drop heal. Read the 
> information on their website to see what that is all about. Most PCT 
> hikers wear the Lone Peak model. There is also a model that has more 
> cushioning - the Olympus. I wear the Lone Peaks when hiking and the 
> Olympus when walking my dog because when I walk my dog I am mainly on 
> concrete sidewalks and I need a little more cushioning. I love these trail 
> runners. They also have a built in gaiter trap. The only down side is 
> that I really can't wear any other kind of shoes now that I have become 
> accustomed to the wide toe box and the zero drop heal. 
> > 
> > I-Beam 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> 
> > To: Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> 
> > Cc: pct l <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
> > Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2017 4:38 pm 
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 
> > 
> > Right now I'm trying out different trail runners to find one I like. I 
> know it's a personal choice, but I'm looking for recommendations on ones to 
> try out. 
> > 
> > I've tried Brooks Cascadias - they were just okay. 
> > 
> > I'm ordering some La Sportiva Wildcats next. 
> > 
> > Thanks! 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone 
> > 
> > > On Jan 15, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> 
> wrote: 
> > > 
> > > Sabrina, 
> > > Pick a subject that you are unsure of, and we'll try to elaborate on 
> it. Water treatment? Maps? Water availability in mid-May? Physical 
> conditioning? 
> > > Mango 
> > > 
> > > From: "Sabrina Harrison" <troopharrison at gmail.com> 
> > > To: "Jim & Jane Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net> 
> > > Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 2:27:33 PM 
> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 
> > > 
> > > I'm a newbie, and I'm not a certified geezer, but I'm a pre-geezer 
> perhaps, as a 42yo. 
> > > 
> > > I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo 
> to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild if I 
> surprise myself and crush miles. 
> > > 
> > > I love hearing the stories on here, and have secret crushes on JMT 
> Reinhold and Switchback. 
> > > 
> > > I'd love any stories or advice you want to send my way. in the spirit 
> of disclosure, I must admit that I have been accused of having a "crap load 
> of questions," so just know that before you open up a can of worms! 
> > > 
> > > Sabrina :) 
> > > 
> > > Sent from my iPhone 
> > > 
> > > > On Jan 15, 2017, at 6:45 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> 
> wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > When I first joined this list in 2009 there was lots of discussion 
> about useful topics - water treatment, shoes, navigation, physical 
> training, waste disposal & sanitation, etc. Plus, a lot of opinionated 
> people got into arguments, and a few told some funny jokes that offended 
> the thin-skinned among us. We newbies would ask questions and receive 
> numerous, often conflicting answers. But I learned a lot. Maybe somebody 
> could start a thread on one of these topics. I would, but I'm hungry and I 
> need to go fix breakfast. Maybe later today. 
> > > > 
> > > > Mango 
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > 
> > > > From: "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com> 
> > > > To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:08:19 AM 
> > > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 
> > > > 
> > > > I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I 
> enjoy 
> > > > the enthusiasm and naivety there. Perhaps there is another use for 
> this 
> > > > forum, now pretty dead for a couple years. 
> > > > 
> > > > Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at whatever 
> pace 
> > > > I can do and it's all good." The other one makes me cringe a bit - 
> > > > "Geezers Rock." 
> > > > 
> > > > What use is this forum? Right now it's dead. I'd love to hear stories 
> > > > of situations others can learn from, without being told what they 
> should 
> > > > do. Maybe young people would join and participate. I love stories... 
> > > > 
> > > > Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA) 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >> On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote: 
> > > >> Yeah, welcome back is right! Geezers rock! I just keep hiking at 
> whatever 
> > > >> pace I can do and it's all good. And, because I can't afford a 
> Nepalese 
> > > >> Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the 
> winter, and 
> > > >> man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my 
> youth. I 
> > > >> have to go UL or not go at all at this point. 
> > > >> 
> > > >> Glad to have you back. 
> > > >> 
> > > >> Shroomer 
> > > >> 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- 
> > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> > > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________ 
> > > > Pct-L mailing list 
> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> > > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> > > > 
> > > > List Archives: 
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> > > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________ 
> > > > Pct-L mailing list 
> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> > > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> > > > 
> > > > List Archives: 
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> > > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Pct-L mailing list 
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> > 
> > List Archives: 
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Pct-L mailing list 
> Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> 
> List Archives: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> 
_______________________________________________ 
Pct-L mailing list 
Pct-L at backcountry.net 
To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 

List Archives: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 


From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon Jan 16 07:47:59 2017
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 05:47:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pct-l] fad shoes
Message-ID: <201701161347.v0GDlx7W028572@server-f.oakapple.net>

> they look really goofy, to go along with how the rest of me looks. 

Best argument yet for toe socks!   I'll have to try them if I can
find some to match my fishing vest.

But why try to figure everything out yourself and get it wrong,
when you can mindlessly follow group fads and get it wrong?

In that vein I bought a pair of Altra Lone Peaks and Brooks Cascadias
this year, based on pct-l endorsements,
just in time to soak them thoroughly as the drought ended.
I had been hiking in Asics GT-2000's with green Superfeet and then
blue Viesters Soles for most of my 13-year piecemeal
assault on the PCT.

So far I can't tell which is better for me - they are different.    The Altras
are made for my dirty girl gaiters, which will be convenient when trails
get dusty and stickery again in a few months.   I think I should have
gotten the Altras a half size larger though.    

Also, so as not to lose any
possible benefit from the zero drop, I have not replaced the original
insoles of the Altras.     Has anybody got any insight about that? 
The former Viesters Soles are no more, and now there is a new version
made from cork that no longer seems to benefit from cooking in an oven first.

And as far as cooking goes, I got a new Osprey Aether pack for this 
summer's exertions, and following the instructions took it in to REI
to get the waistbelt cooked to fit, only to be told they don't find it helpful
and don't do it.


From baidarker at gmail.com  Mon Jan 16 08:05:33 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 06:05:33 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <108303793.89947043.1484565407016.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <159a5173190-253e-10d8f@webprd-m57.mail.aol.com>
 <72690DF3-CB42-44C7-B133-5B4D98066666@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj12enmfU+tfRjEFwJw2D89DfaBn934bvhUUkZ+Q+M5gY4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <108303793.89947043.1484565407016.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj10-D=ahFdZ6Bd+n3GCq=A7Pk3OMdAEppAiSaebL1BdgFg@mail.gmail.com>

Holy smokes Mango, in all fairness to Altra, and the "serious hikers" who
wear them at this point, which are a lot, most of them have been using them
for the past 6 and 7 years now, ever  since the company came out with such
a wide and wonderful toe box.  It's hardly a one year fad at this point.
We've put many people into them who were suffering from foot issues on
trail, and had those issues miraculously cured.  And of those thru hiker
friends who've tried them in desperation and while in pain during a long
hike, I know none of them to have gone back to more traditional shoes.
However, I completely agree that everyone's feet are different and if it
doesn't feel right, try something else for sure.  No one shoe is going to
be right for everyone, but when you get such a predominance of thru hikers
using them each year now, and loving them, they may be worth a try.  So,
folks, don't dismiss this shoe as a one year fad at this point.  There are
simply too many people out there loving them for quite a few years now.

Shroomer

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:16 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
wrote:

> With all due respect to my mentor Shroomer, hiking shoes tend to become
> fads quickly, and like most fads, they fade just as quickly. Brooks
> Cascadias are comfortable but slightly less stiff than I prefer. I like
> Montrose Mountain Masochists as well as anything I've tried, but they're
> getting harder to find. I like a cushiony shoe more than the thin-sole feel
> (easier on legs and fewer stress fractures), so I double up on the inserts.
> To keep the inserts from making the shoe too tight, I buy the shoes about
> two (2) sizes bigger than what the salesman recommends. Larger shoes give
> your feet plenty of room to move around, assure a bigger toe box, handle
> the extra inserts without constricting blood flow, and provide room for
> your feet to swell in the desert and chaparral, as they almost always do. I
> haven't surveyed all hikers, but I personally have never heard of anybody
> getting a blister because their shoes were too big. My own experience is
> that blisters are caused by shoes that are to
>  o tight, not too loose.
>
> And speaking of blisters, I use toe socks as my inner sock and have never
> had a blister since I started wearing them (with larger shoes). Plus, they
> look really goofy, to go along with how the rest of me looks.
>
> In summary, don't buy shoes just because "... almost all the serious thru
> hikers ..." are wearing them this year. Try them, yes, but go with the shoe
> that has the specific characteristics that are best for your feet, not the
> crowds'.
>
> Good luck.
> Mango
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Scott Williams" <baidarker at gmail.com>
> To: "Sabrina Harrison" <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> Cc: "<Pct-l at backcountry.net>" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 1:47:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
>
> I'm with you on the Altras I-Beam. And for all the reasons you've stated.
> I wear the Instincts, which have a very soft sole, at home because they're
> just so comfortable, and Lone Peaks for hiking. Although today, I forgot
> my hiking shoes and was forced to climb a mountain, 4,000' vertical and 17
> miles, in the Instincts and they did fine. My feet feel great this
> evening, so the soft sole was not too soft for some pretty rocky trail.
>
> Although they are incredibly comfortable, the Lone Peaks of the past have
> had a problem with the uppers tearing out relatively quickly, sometimes
> within a few hundred miles. This seems to be solved by the newer models
> having a non fabric section added to the upper at the point of wear. The
> newest models I just tried on at the Outdoor Retail show in SLC this past
> week have added a series of rubberized plastic bands to the sides of the
> uppers to help this even more, and the soles had even better traction. A
> great shoe.
>
> The Lone Peaks are worn by almost all the serious thru hikers I know, and
> some of the greatest in he country. They are really comfortable. And if
> the new ones are more robust, they'll be even better.
>
> Shroomer
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Thank you so much! They are the next ones I plan to try.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jan 15, 2017, at 8:24 PM, Jim L Banks <jimlbanks at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > You might want to look at Altra trail runners. They have become very
> > popular the last few years. Their toe box is actually shaped like your
> > foot and allows your toes to splay out when you walk, like they naturally
> > want to do. They also have what is called a zero drop heal. Read the
> > information on their website to see what that is all about. Most PCT
> > hikers wear the Lone Peak model. There is also a model that has more
> > cushioning - the Olympus. I wear the Lone Peaks when hiking and the
> > Olympus when walking my dog because when I walk my dog I am mainly on
> > concrete sidewalks and I need a little more cushioning. I love these
> trail
> > runners. They also have a built in gaiter trap. The only down side is
> > that I really can't wear any other kind of shoes now that I have become
> > accustomed to the wide toe box and the zero drop heal.
> > >
> > > I-Beam
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> > > To: Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> > > Cc: pct l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > > Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2017 4:38 pm
> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> > >
> > > Right now I'm trying out different trail runners to find one I like. I
> > know it's a personal choice, but I'm looking for recommendations on ones
> to
> > try out.
> > >
> > > I've tried Brooks Cascadias - they were just okay.
> > >
> > > I'm ordering some La Sportiva Wildcats next.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Jan 15, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sabrina,
> > > > Pick a subject that you are unsure of, and we'll try to elaborate on
> > it. Water treatment? Maps? Water availability in mid-May? Physical
> > conditioning?
> > > > Mango
> > > >
> > > > From: "Sabrina Harrison" <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> > > > To: "Jim & Jane Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> > > > Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 2:27:33 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> > > >
> > > > I'm a newbie, and I'm not a certified geezer, but I'm a pre-geezer
> > perhaps, as a 42yo.
> > > >
> > > > I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo
> > to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild if
> I
> > surprise myself and crush miles.
> > > >
> > > > I love hearing the stories on here, and have secret crushes on JMT
> > Reinhold and Switchback.
> > > >
> > > > I'd love any stories or advice you want to send my way. in the spirit
> > of disclosure, I must admit that I have been accused of having a "crap
> load
> > of questions," so just know that before you open up a can of worms!
> > > >
> > > > Sabrina :)
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > > On Jan 15, 2017, at 6:45 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > When I first joined this list in 2009 there was lots of discussion
> > about useful topics - water treatment, shoes, navigation, physical
> > training, waste disposal & sanitation, etc. Plus, a lot of opinionated
> > people got into arguments, and a few told some funny jokes that offended
> > the thin-skinned among us. We newbies would ask questions and receive
> > numerous, often conflicting answers. But I learned a lot. Maybe somebody
> > could start a thread on one of these topics. I would, but I'm hungry and
> I
> > need to go fix breakfast. Maybe later today.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mango
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >
> > > > > From: "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com>
> > > > > To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:08:19 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> > > > >
> > > > > I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I
> > enjoy
> > > > > the enthusiasm and naivety there. Perhaps there is another use for
> > this
> > > > > forum, now pretty dead for a couple years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at whatever
> > pace
> > > > > I can do and it's all good." The other one makes me cringe a bit -
> > > > > "Geezers Rock."
> > > > >
> > > > > What use is this forum? Right now it's dead. I'd love to hear
> stories
> > > > > of situations others can learn from, without being told what they
> > should
> > > > > do. Maybe young people would join and participate. I love
> stories...
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote:
> > > > >> Yeah, welcome back is right! Geezers rock! I just keep hiking at
> > whatever
> > > > >> pace I can do and it's all good. And, because I can't afford a
> > Nepalese
> > > > >> Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA during the
> > winter, and
> > > > >> man can that dude hike!) I can't afford the heavy packs of my
> > youth. I
> > > > >> have to go UL or not go at all at this point.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Glad to have you back.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Shroomer
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
> software.
> > > > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > > > >
> > > > > List Archives:
> > > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > > > >
> > > > > List Archives:
> > > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >
> > > List Archives:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 16 11:32:09 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:32:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Cajon to Silverwood
References: <949853490.3932963.1484587929845.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <949853490.3932963.1484587929845@mail.yahoo.com>

Sunday we hiked from I-15 to Silverwood Lake Ranger Station.

The Blue Cut Fire burned the information signs and picnic table at I-15. The trail tread is in good shape with a few blow downs, nothing serious. A couple we cleared by throwing off the trail. With the recent rains and apparent return to a non-drought winter there was plenty of water. Another storm next week on the way, too. It would be nice to have the springs and seasonal creeks flowing later into the year.

It was a beautiful winter day and that little section is nice hiking.

Gary


From nobohiker at gmail.com  Mon Jan 16 15:55:45 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (Rick)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:55:45 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <6660e00e-bade-5cb3-dfba-22578e353658@scottbryce.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
 <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>
 <6660e00e-bade-5cb3-dfba-22578e353658@scottbryce.com>
Message-ID: <C9EFAECD-5B2B-40C9-BEDD-18C58464B075@gmail.com>

> am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo
> to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild
> if I surprise myself and crush miles.

This section is absolutely amazing!
I hiked it with the 'herd' back in 2013 and there were lot's of folks complaining about the desert and that they don't like it.  
So my recommendation is to start ahead of the herd - if you can. 

Enjoy! It's a great section. 

Section hiker Rick

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 15, 2017, at 12:41 PM, Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/15/2017 12:27 PM, Sabrina Harrison wrote:
>> I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo
>> to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild
>> if I surprise myself and crush miles.
> 
> 
> Campo to Warner Springs really isn't that far. Odds are, you will crush
> the miles.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Mon Jan 16 22:34:40 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:34:40 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <DDE59308-0C44-4527-9814-C8C6027AFEF1@gmail.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
 <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>
 <1540612675.89675021.1484509616581.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <DDE59308-0C44-4527-9814-C8C6027AFEF1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <137b40d5-8a21-e652-865f-09d84491a429@marcusschwartz.com>

I wanted to add another vote for Altra Lone Peak + Injinji toe socks.
I've had lots of blister problems in the past, but that sock/shoe
combination pretty much solved them.  They're also able to securely hold
Dirty Girl gaiters, which would be handy on the section you're hiking,
to keep the dust and rocks out.

On the downside, the sole on the Lone Peaks is very thin, and rocks in
the trail would hurt me after a while.  Adding aftermarket insoles
helped -- I liked the Sole brand insoles the best.

Avoid the Lone Peak 2.0 model, though.  It's waterproof, and doesn't
breathe well.  It's old, but still in stock in some places.

It's important to note, your feet will change size as you hike --
usually they grow about a full size.  This can make it hard to figure
out the right shoe and size ahead of time.  It might be a good idea to
start with old shoes, and buy new ones at the store in Mount Laguna --
they have excellent selection and expertise.

And, by the way, IMO Idyllwild is a much nicer end point than Warner
Springs.  Idyllwild is a neat little mountain town with lots of nice
places to stay and eat.  The facilities at Warner Springs, on the other
hand, gave me ringworm.

 -=Marcus

On 01/15/2017 04:38 PM, Sabrina Harrison wrote:
> Right now I'm trying out different trail runners to find one I like.
> I know it's a personal choice, but I'm looking for recommendations on
> ones to try out.
> 
> I've tried Brooks Cascadias - they were just okay.
> 
> I'm ordering some La Sportiva Wildcats next.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 15, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Sabrina, Pick a subject that you are unsure of, and we'll try to
>> elaborate on it.  Water treatment?  Maps?  Water availability in
>> mid-May? Physical conditioning? Mango
>> 
>> From: "Sabrina Harrison" <troopharrison at gmail.com> To: "Jim & Jane
>> Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net> Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 2:27:33 PM Subject: Re: [pct-l] My
>> first post since 2003
>> 
>> I'm a newbie, and I'm not a certified geezer, but I'm a pre-geezer
>> perhaps, as a 42yo.
>> 
>> I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on
>> Campo to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of
>> Idyllwild if I surprise myself and crush miles.
>> 
>> I love hearing the stories on here, and have secret crushes on JMT
>> Reinhold and Switchback.
>> 
>> I'd love any stories or advice you want to send my way. in the
>> spirit of disclosure, I must admit that I have been accused of
>> having a "crap load of questions," so just know that before you
>> open up a can of worms!
>> 
>> Sabrina :)
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 15, 2017, at 6:45 AM, Jim & Jane Moody
>>> <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> When I first joined this list in 2009 there was lots of
>>> discussion about useful topics - water treatment, shoes,
>>> navigation, physical training, waste disposal & sanitation, etc.
>>> Plus, a lot of opinionated people got into arguments, and a few
>>> told some funny jokes that offended the thin-skinned among us. We
>>> newbies would ask questions and receive numerous, often
>>> conflicting answers. But I learned a lot. Maybe somebody could
>>> start a thread on one of these topics. I would, but I'm hungry
>>> and I need to go fix breakfast. Maybe later today.
>>> 
>>> Mango
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> 
>>> From: "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com> To: "Pct-L"
>>> <pct-l at backcountry.net> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:08:19 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
>>> 
>>> I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I
>>> enjoy the enthusiasm and naivety there. Perhaps there is another
>>> use for this forum, now pretty dead for a couple years.
>>> 
>>> Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at
>>> whatever pace I can do and it's all good." The other one makes me
>>> cringe a bit - "Geezers Rock."
>>> 
>>> What use is this forum? Right now it's dead. I'd love to hear
>>> stories of situations others can learn from, without being told
>>> what they should do. Maybe young people would join and
>>> participate. I love stories...
>>> 
>>> Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA)
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote: Yeah, welcome back
>>>> is right! Geezers rock! I just keep hiking at whatever pace I
>>>> can do and it's all good. And, because I can't afford a
>>>> Nepalese Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA
>>>> during the winter, and man can that dude hike!) I can't afford
>>>> the heavy packs of my youth. I have to go UL or not go at all
>>>> at this point.
>>>> 
>>>> Glad to have you back.
>>>> 
>>>> Shroomer
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>>> software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing
>>> list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options
>>> visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing
>>> list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options
>>> visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list 
> Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> 

From baidarker at gmail.com  Mon Jan 16 22:43:06 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:43:06 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <20170116123421.cbf84411a865139e0d3a826c48598e32.7f01b9eb7b.wbe@email12.godaddy.com>
References: <20170116123421.cbf84411a865139e0d3a826c48598e32.7f01b9eb7b.wbe@email12.godaddy.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj11KzHLDeL4ZLb3CxdWgh0+dswbUDeycJRCUnPgbftFKFw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Tom,

The Altras are all about the wide toe box and zero drop heal.  Most folks
should go with a bigger shoe as Mango suggests just because your feet swell
and lengthen as you hike, but if you're main issue is the width of the toe
box, this may be a good shoe for you.  The zero drop heal sometimes takes
some getting used to, so I'd recommend trying them as early as possible.
You can always send them back if they don't work.

Give them a shot and see if they fit your feet.

Shroomer



On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
wrote:

> How do the Altras run in width?  I wear New Balance mostly because they
> come in 4E width.  The Altras only have a maximum D width.  I suspect
> Altras might work for me because of the toe box design.  I need the 4E
> because of a wide fore foot, not because of a wide heel.  Any thoughts?
>
> Tom
>

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 09:54:06 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:54:06 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <137b40d5-8a21-e652-865f-09d84491a429@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
 <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>
 <1540612675.89675021.1484509616581.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <DDE59308-0C44-4527-9814-C8C6027AFEF1@gmail.com>
 <137b40d5-8a21-e652-865f-09d84491a429@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <9F8758D4-6BB6-43E3-AB07-CF65C7EA33E6@gmail.com>

Wow! Ringworm avoidance is a definite amenity for Idyllwild!! Haha! Thanks Marcus :)
Sabrina 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:34 PM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
> 
> I wanted to add another vote for Altra Lone Peak + Injinji toe socks.
> I've had lots of blister problems in the past, but that sock/shoe
> combination pretty much solved them.  They're also able to securely hold
> Dirty Girl gaiters, which would be handy on the section you're hiking,
> to keep the dust and rocks out.
> 
> On the downside, the sole on the Lone Peaks is very thin, and rocks in
> the trail would hurt me after a while.  Adding aftermarket insoles
> helped -- I liked the Sole brand insoles the best.
> 
> Avoid the Lone Peak 2.0 model, though.  It's waterproof, and doesn't
> breathe well.  It's old, but still in stock in some places.
> 
> It's important to note, your feet will change size as you hike --
> usually they grow about a full size.  This can make it hard to figure
> out the right shoe and size ahead of time.  It might be a good idea to
> start with old shoes, and buy new ones at the store in Mount Laguna --
> they have excellent selection and expertise.
> 
> And, by the way, IMO Idyllwild is a much nicer end point than Warner
> Springs.  Idyllwild is a neat little mountain town with lots of nice
> places to stay and eat.  The facilities at Warner Springs, on the other
> hand, gave me ringworm.
> 
> -=Marcus
> 
>> On 01/15/2017 04:38 PM, Sabrina Harrison wrote:
>> Right now I'm trying out different trail runners to find one I like.
>> I know it's a personal choice, but I'm looking for recommendations on
>> ones to try out.
>> 
>> I've tried Brooks Cascadias - they were just okay.
>> 
>> I'm ordering some La Sportiva Wildcats next.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 15, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sabrina, Pick a subject that you are unsure of, and we'll try to
>>> elaborate on it.  Water treatment?  Maps?  Water availability in
>>> mid-May? Physical conditioning? Mango
>>> 
>>> From: "Sabrina Harrison" <troopharrison at gmail.com> To: "Jim & Jane
>>> Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net> Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 2:27:33 PM Subject: Re: [pct-l] My
>>> first post since 2003
>>> 
>>> I'm a newbie, and I'm not a certified geezer, but I'm a pre-geezer
>>> perhaps, as a 42yo.
>>> 
>>> I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on
>>> Campo to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of
>>> Idyllwild if I surprise myself and crush miles.
>>> 
>>> I love hearing the stories on here, and have secret crushes on JMT
>>> Reinhold and Switchback.
>>> 
>>> I'd love any stories or advice you want to send my way. in the
>>> spirit of disclosure, I must admit that I have been accused of
>>> having a "crap load of questions," so just know that before you
>>> open up a can of worms!
>>> 
>>> Sabrina :)
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 15, 2017, at 6:45 AM, Jim & Jane Moody
>>>> <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> When I first joined this list in 2009 there was lots of
>>>> discussion about useful topics - water treatment, shoes,
>>>> navigation, physical training, waste disposal & sanitation, etc.
>>>> Plus, a lot of opinionated people got into arguments, and a few
>>>> told some funny jokes that offended the thin-skinned among us. We
>>>> newbies would ask questions and receive numerous, often
>>>> conflicting answers. But I learned a lot. Maybe somebody could
>>>> start a thread on one of these topics. I would, but I'm hungry
>>>> and I need to go fix breakfast. Maybe later today.
>>>> 
>>>> Mango
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> 
>>>> From: "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com> To: "Pct-L"
>>>> <pct-l at backcountry.net> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 1:08:19 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
>>>> 
>>>> I belong to the facebook groups focusing on hiking the PCT, and I
>>>> enjoy the enthusiasm and naivety there. Perhaps there is another
>>>> use for this forum, now pretty dead for a couple years.
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe Shroomer is on to something - "I just keep hiking at
>>>> whatever pace I can do and it's all good." The other one makes me
>>>> cringe a bit - "Geezers Rock."
>>>> 
>>>> What use is this forum? Right now it's dead. I'd love to hear
>>>> stories of situations others can learn from, without being told
>>>> what they should do. Maybe young people would join and
>>>> participate. I love stories...
>>>> 
>>>> Jeff... Laramie, WY (Santa Rosa, CA)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/14/2017 8:39 PM, Scott Williams wrote: Yeah, welcome back
>>>>> is right! Geezers rock! I just keep hiking at whatever pace I
>>>>> can do and it's all good. And, because I can't afford a
>>>>> Nepalese Sherpa, (although, one trains with us out here in CA
>>>>> during the winter, and man can that dude hike!) I can't afford
>>>>> the heavy packs of my youth. I have to go UL or not go at all
>>>>> at this point.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Glad to have you back.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Shroomer
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>>>> software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing
>>>> list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options
>>>> visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>> 
>>>> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
>>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
>>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing
>>>> list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options
>>>> visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>> 
>>>> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
>>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
>>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list 
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
>> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
>> prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Tue Jan 17 12:34:19 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 10:34:19 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking?
Message-ID: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>

Mango, Shroomer, and everyone else,

I don't understand why hiker's feet expand and lengthen over the course of a
long hike. I'm having a hard time simply accepting this rationale, that it's
going to happen to all hikers.

As you guys may know, I log between 100 and 200 days on-trail every year,
especially since 2005. I did the PCT and CDT. I typically carry between 65
and 80 pound packs. I always use a leather boot that is one size bigger than
my running shoe. 

Here is the source of my confusion, my feet haven't changed since high
school!

What is it I am doing that everyone else is not? Why haven't my feet changed
at all over the years? Is it that I haven't bought into the assumption that
my feet would swell and lengthen? Could it be that my boots have been
supporting my feet sufficiently, thus preventing this common malady? 

Would someone please explain?


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott
Williams
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 8:43 PM
To: Tom Weir <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
Cc: Pct-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003

Hey Tom,

The Altras are all about the wide toe box and zero drop heal.  Most folks
should go with a bigger shoe as Mango suggests just because your feet swell
and lengthen as you hike, but if you're main issue is the width of the toe
box, this may be a good shoe for you.  The zero drop heal sometimes takes
some getting used to, so I'd recommend trying them as early as possible.
You can always send them back if they don't work.

Give them a shot and see if they fit your feet.

Shroomer



On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
wrote:

> How do the Altras run in width?  I wear New Balance mostly because 
> they come in 4E width.  The Altras only have a maximum D width.  I 
> suspect Altras might work for me because of the toe box design.  I 
> need the 4E because of a wide fore foot, not because of a wide heel.  Any
thoughts?
>
> Tom
>
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From brick at brickrobbins.com  Tue Jan 17 13:54:56 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 11:54:56 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <9F8758D4-6BB6-43E3-AB07-CF65C7EA33E6@gmail.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
 <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>
 <1540612675.89675021.1484509616581.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <DDE59308-0C44-4527-9814-C8C6027AFEF1@gmail.com>
 <137b40d5-8a21-e652-865f-09d84491a429@marcusschwartz.com>
 <9F8758D4-6BB6-43E3-AB07-CF65C7EA33E6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NzkB5Yzrhy+4Nhm_WRqk4YYP1wTd=DHM83erpjNYVYg7tQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Sabrina Harrison
<troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow! Ringworm avoidance is a definite amenity for Idyllwild!! Haha! Thanks Marcus :)

Ringworm is not a "worm"  it is a fungus (also known as yeast) just
like athletes foot. We all have lots of fungus living on us all the
time. Problem fungal flair ups usually happen for environmental
reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermatophytosis

From jbruins at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 14:10:51 2017
From: jbruins at gmail.com (Jay Bruins)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 12:10:51 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking?
In-Reply-To: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>
References: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <47DF19F4-AA44-4304-8128-AE8556D8B010@gmail.com>

The super nontechnical explanation is that your feet flatten out (basically, rapid aging). This changes stress patterns on your bones and can cause fun. I suffered a stress fracture and the remedy was stiffer shoes and insoles with better arch support (recommendation by a podiatrist, not the internet).

Coming off the trail, I had a pair of ski boots that didn?t fit. I went to the boot fitter and he simply formed some insoles (I previously had none in those boots) and the result was my foot box fit similar to how it used to.

FWIW, my shoe size only increased by a half size on the trail. I have also backpacked at least a week a year for most years since I was 13 so the increase might have been less than someone who had no such prior use. Also, since the trail, unless I?m cycling or going someplace super fancy, I always wear my trail runners so there is no distinction in trail vs non-trail shoe for me :)

Cheers,
Armstrong


> On Jan 17, 2017, at 10:34 AM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
> 
> Mango, Shroomer, and everyone else,
> 
> I don't understand why hiker's feet expand and lengthen over the course of a
> long hike. I'm having a hard time simply accepting this rationale, that it's
> going to happen to all hikers.
> 
> As you guys may know, I log between 100 and 200 days on-trail every year,
> especially since 2005. I did the PCT and CDT. I typically carry between 65
> and 80 pound packs. I always use a leather boot that is one size bigger than
> my running shoe. 
> 
> Here is the source of my confusion, my feet haven't changed since high
> school!
> 
> What is it I am doing that everyone else is not? Why haven't my feet changed
> at all over the years? Is it that I haven't bought into the assumption that
> my feet would swell and lengthen? Could it be that my boots have been
> supporting my feet sufficiently, thus preventing this common malady? 
> 
> Would someone please explain?
> 
> 
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education, Inc.
> ned at mountaineducation.org 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott
> Williams
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 8:43 PM
> To: Tom Weir <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
> Cc: Pct-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> 
> Hey Tom,
> 
> The Altras are all about the wide toe box and zero drop heal.  Most folks
> should go with a bigger shoe as Mango suggests just because your feet swell
> and lengthen as you hike, but if you're main issue is the width of the toe
> box, this may be a good shoe for you.  The zero drop heal sometimes takes
> some getting used to, so I'd recommend trying them as early as possible.
> You can always send them back if they don't work.
> 
> Give them a shot and see if they fit your feet.
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> How do the Altras run in width?  I wear New Balance mostly because 
>> they come in 4E width.  The Altras only have a maximum D width.  I 
>> suspect Altras might work for me because of the toe box design.  I 
>> need the 4E because of a wide fore foot, not because of a wide heel.  Any
> thoughts?
>> 
>> Tom
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From moodyjj at comcast.net  Tue Jan 17 14:31:31 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 20:31:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking?
In-Reply-To: <47DF19F4-AA44-4304-8128-AE8556D8B010@gmail.com>
References: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>
 <47DF19F4-AA44-4304-8128-AE8556D8B010@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2043574620.91020474.1484685091196.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

My experience with foot expansion may be unusual. I thru-hiked the AT in '06, wearing Garmont boots most of the way. My feet were the same size at Katahdin as they were at Springer. In '10 I started a PCT thru hike, and my feet expanded within 300-400 miles, wearing trail runners. Maybe the heat is a factor. Both trails have lots of rocks and hard surfaces, so it wasn't just the rocks. 
Mango 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Jay Bruins" <jbruins at gmail.com> 
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 3:10:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking? 

The super nontechnical explanation is that your feet flatten out (basically, rapid aging). This changes stress patterns on your bones and can cause fun. I suffered a stress fracture and the remedy was stiffer shoes and insoles with better arch support (recommendation by a podiatrist, not the internet). 

Coming off the trail, I had a pair of ski boots that didn?t fit. I went to the boot fitter and he simply formed some insoles (I previously had none in those boots) and the result was my foot box fit similar to how it used to. 

FWIW, my shoe size only increased by a half size on the trail. I have also backpacked at least a week a year for most years since I was 13 so the increase might have been less than someone who had no such prior use. Also, since the trail, unless I?m cycling or going someplace super fancy, I always wear my trail runners so there is no distinction in trail vs non-trail shoe for me :) 

Cheers, 
Armstrong 


> On Jan 17, 2017, at 10:34 AM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote: 
> 
> Mango, Shroomer, and everyone else, 
> 
> I don't understand why hiker's feet expand and lengthen over the course of a 
> long hike. I'm having a hard time simply accepting this rationale, that it's 
> going to happen to all hikers. 
> 
> As you guys may know, I log between 100 and 200 days on-trail every year, 
> especially since 2005. I did the PCT and CDT. I typically carry between 65 
> and 80 pound packs. I always use a leather boot that is one size bigger than 
> my running shoe. 
> 
> Here is the source of my confusion, my feet haven't changed since high 
> school! 
> 
> What is it I am doing that everyone else is not? Why haven't my feet changed 
> at all over the years? Is it that I haven't bought into the assumption that 
> my feet would swell and lengthen? Could it be that my boots have been 
> supporting my feet sufficiently, thus preventing this common malady? 
> 
> Would someone please explain? 
> 
> 
> Ned Tibbits, Director 
> Mountain Education, Inc. 
> ned at mountaineducation.org 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott 
> Williams 
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 8:43 PM 
> To: Tom Weir <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com> 
> Cc: Pct-L <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 
> 
> Hey Tom, 
> 
> The Altras are all about the wide toe box and zero drop heal. Most folks 
> should go with a bigger shoe as Mango suggests just because your feet swell 
> and lengthen as you hike, but if you're main issue is the width of the toe 
> box, this may be a good shoe for you. The zero drop heal sometimes takes 
> some getting used to, so I'd recommend trying them as early as possible. 
> You can always send them back if they don't work. 
> 
> Give them a shot and see if they fit your feet. 
> 
> Shroomer 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com> 
> wrote: 
> 
>> How do the Altras run in width? I wear New Balance mostly because 
>> they come in 4E width. The Altras only have a maximum D width. I 
>> suspect Altras might work for me because of the toe box design. I 
>> need the 4E because of a wide fore foot, not because of a wide heel. Any 
> thoughts? 
>> 
>> Tom 
>> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Pct-L mailing list 
> Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> 
> List Archives: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Pct-L mailing list 
> Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> 
> List Archives: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 

_______________________________________________ 
Pct-L mailing list 
Pct-L at backcountry.net 
To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 

List Archives: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 


From troopharrison at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 16:39:42 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 16:39:42 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking?
In-Reply-To: <2043574620.91020474.1484685091196.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>
 <47DF19F4-AA44-4304-8128-AE8556D8B010@gmail.com>
 <2043574620.91020474.1484685091196.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FB0F0053-E6E7-4D6A-9097-368C15AD2099@gmail.com>

For what it's worth, I have had four children and my feet have grown slightly with each kid. No kidding! Who knows why. But I'm here to tell you, I'm not imagining it. I had to get rid of all my shoes after each baby and that ain't no joke. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> My experience with foot expansion may be unusual. I thru-hiked the AT in '06, wearing Garmont boots most of the way. My feet were the same size at Katahdin as they were at Springer. In '10 I started a PCT thru hike, and my feet expanded within 300-400 miles, wearing trail runners. Maybe the heat is a factor. Both trails have lots of rocks and hard surfaces, so it wasn't just the rocks. 
> Mango 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> From: "Jay Bruins" <jbruins at gmail.com> 
> To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 3:10:51 PM 
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking? 
> 
> The super nontechnical explanation is that your feet flatten out (basically, rapid aging). This changes stress patterns on your bones and can cause fun. I suffered a stress fracture and the remedy was stiffer shoes and insoles with better arch support (recommendation by a podiatrist, not the internet). 
> 
> Coming off the trail, I had a pair of ski boots that didn?t fit. I went to the boot fitter and he simply formed some insoles (I previously had none in those boots) and the result was my foot box fit similar to how it used to. 
> 
> FWIW, my shoe size only increased by a half size on the trail. I have also backpacked at least a week a year for most years since I was 13 so the increase might have been less than someone who had no such prior use. Also, since the trail, unless I?m cycling or going someplace super fancy, I always wear my trail runners so there is no distinction in trail vs non-trail shoe for me :) 
> 
> Cheers, 
> Armstrong 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 17, 2017, at 10:34 AM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote: 
>> 
>> Mango, Shroomer, and everyone else, 
>> 
>> I don't understand why hiker's feet expand and lengthen over the course of a 
>> long hike. I'm having a hard time simply accepting this rationale, that it's 
>> going to happen to all hikers. 
>> 
>> As you guys may know, I log between 100 and 200 days on-trail every year, 
>> especially since 2005. I did the PCT and CDT. I typically carry between 65 
>> and 80 pound packs. I always use a leather boot that is one size bigger than 
>> my running shoe. 
>> 
>> Here is the source of my confusion, my feet haven't changed since high 
>> school! 
>> 
>> What is it I am doing that everyone else is not? Why haven't my feet changed 
>> at all over the years? Is it that I haven't bought into the assumption that 
>> my feet would swell and lengthen? Could it be that my boots have been 
>> supporting my feet sufficiently, thus preventing this common malady? 
>> 
>> Would someone please explain? 
>> 
>> 
>> Ned Tibbits, Director 
>> Mountain Education, Inc. 
>> ned at mountaineducation.org 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott 
>> Williams 
>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 8:43 PM 
>> To: Tom Weir <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com> 
>> Cc: Pct-L <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 
>> 
>> Hey Tom, 
>> 
>> The Altras are all about the wide toe box and zero drop heal. Most folks 
>> should go with a bigger shoe as Mango suggests just because your feet swell 
>> and lengthen as you hike, but if you're main issue is the width of the toe 
>> box, this may be a good shoe for you. The zero drop heal sometimes takes 
>> some getting used to, so I'd recommend trying them as early as possible. 
>> You can always send them back if they don't work. 
>> 
>> Give them a shot and see if they fit your feet. 
>> 
>> Shroomer 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com> 
>> wrote: 
>> 
>>> How do the Altras run in width? I wear New Balance mostly because 
>>> they come in 4E width. The Altras only have a maximum D width. I 
>>> suspect Altras might work for me because of the toe box design. I 
>>> need the 4E because of a wide fore foot, not because of a wide heel. Any 
>> thoughts? 
>>> 
>>> Tom 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> Pct-L mailing list 
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net 
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
>> 
>> List Archives: 
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> Pct-L mailing list 
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net 
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
>> 
>> List Archives: 
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Pct-L mailing list 
> Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> 
> List Archives: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From baidarker at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 17:16:52 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 15:16:52 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NzkB5Yzrhy+4Nhm_WRqk4YYP1wTd=DHM83erpjNYVYg7tQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
 <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>
 <1540612675.89675021.1484509616581.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <DDE59308-0C44-4527-9814-C8C6027AFEF1@gmail.com>
 <137b40d5-8a21-e652-865f-09d84491a429@marcusschwartz.com>
 <9F8758D4-6BB6-43E3-AB07-CF65C7EA33E6@gmail.com>
 <CALV1NzkB5Yzrhy+4Nhm_WRqk4YYP1wTd=DHM83erpjNYVYg7tQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj11e2W=DC5rPTuyHKPmJO7EUVOmkMnD1FnYDmGnrv6LMbA@mail.gmail.com>

I always carry a small tube of an anti fungal cream for athletes foot, jock
itch, ringworm and monkey butt.  Once, when we were still in a lot of snow,
but the weather had warmed up, our wet, warm shoes, became little petri
dishes for germs and I ended up treating a bunch of folks on trail north of
Tahoe who contracted jungle rot, myself included on that one.  But it's one
of the medicines that I use on numerous people on every hike.  There's
fungus amongus on trail, when you sweat and don't bath adequately every
day.  "Dirty hiker trash"  is what we call each other for good reason.

Shroomer

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Sabrina Harrison
> <troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Wow! Ringworm avoidance is a definite amenity for Idyllwild!! Haha!
> Thanks Marcus :)
>
> Ringworm is not a "worm"  it is a fungus (also known as yeast) just
> like athletes foot. We all have lots of fungus living on us all the
> time. Problem fungal flair ups usually happen for environmental
> reasons.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermatophytosis
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From baidarker at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 17:39:43 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 15:39:43 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking?
In-Reply-To: <FB0F0053-E6E7-4D6A-9097-368C15AD2099@gmail.com>
References: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>
 <47DF19F4-AA44-4304-8128-AE8556D8B010@gmail.com>
 <2043574620.91020474.1484685091196.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <FB0F0053-E6E7-4D6A-9097-368C15AD2099@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj13ixp8y63O3sZ_yAqPgrrAsj4agZV+M29oVio3-o5L2=Q@mail.gmail.com>

You may be onto something Ned.  It could very well be that the constriction
of your boots over the years have stopped your feet from growing the way
ours have who use lighter shoes.  Binding can cause bones and muscles to
grow or not grow in animals and humans when done for long enough.  I'm
thinking of the head binding of the Maya and foot binding of women in
China, and other peoples practices.  But, after spending the summer
trekking in Madagascar, where most laborers and common folk were barefoot
most of their lives, I got to see feet that were so amazingly wide, long
and muscular, that I started surreptitiously taking cel phone photos of
them.  They looked like Hobbit feet.  The toes had visible muscle and were
fat with it, and were spread apart like our fingers.  The fat pads, that
most of us don't have, were visible on the sides of their instep, balls and
heal, kind of squishing out as they walked.  They had incredible padding!
  I would argue that this is probably a much more "naturally human" shape
for a human foot.  These men and women had never had anything constricting
their feet all their lives.   We hiked through the jungles  along old,
rocky railroad grades, the rocks on which were so angular that they hurt
our feet after one day on them in shoes.  These native guys were hiking
miles, barefoot, carrying 150lbs of bananas!  They walked much faster than
me, Francis or Rejoice!  We couldn't keep up!

So, my point is that maybe it is the softness of our trail runners and wide
toe box shoes that are actually allowing our feet to regain some of their
true and healthier  shape.  I know that after all the thru hikes, my toes
have space now, I've grown 2.5 sizes and best of all..... I have no foot
issues!  No pain, no planters faciitus, which I used to suffer from, I hike
all day and am sore in places, but never my feet.  Slowly over the years of
long trail hiking, my feet look more like those lifelong barefoot folks I
lived with this summer.  Maybe not a bad thing.

Shroomer

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
wrote:

> For what it's worth, I have had four children and my feet have grown
> slightly with each kid. No kidding! Who knows why. But I'm here to tell
> you, I'm not imagining it. I had to get rid of all my shoes after each baby
> and that ain't no joke.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 17, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > My experience with foot expansion may be unusual. I thru-hiked the AT in
> '06, wearing Garmont boots most of the way. My feet were the same size at
> Katahdin as they were at Springer. In '10 I started a PCT thru hike, and my
> feet expanded within 300-400 miles, wearing trail runners. Maybe the heat
> is a factor. Both trails have lots of rocks and hard surfaces, so it wasn't
> just the rocks.
> > Mango
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Jay Bruins" <jbruins at gmail.com>
> > To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 3:10:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while
> backpacking?
> >
> > The super nontechnical explanation is that your feet flatten out
> (basically, rapid aging). This changes stress patterns on your bones and
> can cause fun. I suffered a stress fracture and the remedy was stiffer
> shoes and insoles with better arch support (recommendation by a podiatrist,
> not the internet).
> >
> > Coming off the trail, I had a pair of ski boots that didn?t fit. I went
> to the boot fitter and he simply formed some insoles (I previously had none
> in those boots) and the result was my foot box fit similar to how it used
> to.
> >
> > FWIW, my shoe size only increased by a half size on the trail. I have
> also backpacked at least a week a year for most years since I was 13 so the
> increase might have been less than someone who had no such prior use. Also,
> since the trail, unless I?m cycling or going someplace super fancy, I
> always wear my trail runners so there is no distinction in trail vs
> non-trail shoe for me :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Armstrong
> >
> >
> >> On Jan 17, 2017, at 10:34 AM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> <
> ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Mango, Shroomer, and everyone else,
> >>
> >> I don't understand why hiker's feet expand and lengthen over the course
> of a
> >> long hike. I'm having a hard time simply accepting this rationale, that
> it's
> >> going to happen to all hikers.
> >>
> >> As you guys may know, I log between 100 and 200 days on-trail every
> year,
> >> especially since 2005. I did the PCT and CDT. I typically carry between
> 65
> >> and 80 pound packs. I always use a leather boot that is one size bigger
> than
> >> my running shoe.
> >>
> >> Here is the source of my confusion, my feet haven't changed since high
> >> school!
> >>
> >> What is it I am doing that everyone else is not? Why haven't my feet
> changed
> >> at all over the years? Is it that I haven't bought into the assumption
> that
> >> my feet would swell and lengthen? Could it be that my boots have been
> >> supporting my feet sufficiently, thus preventing this common malady?
> >>
> >> Would someone please explain?
> >>
> >>
> >> Ned Tibbits, Director
> >> Mountain Education, Inc.
> >> ned at mountaineducation.org
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott
> >> Williams
> >> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 8:43 PM
> >> To: Tom Weir <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
> >> Cc: Pct-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
> >>
> >> Hey Tom,
> >>
> >> The Altras are all about the wide toe box and zero drop heal. Most folks
> >> should go with a bigger shoe as Mango suggests just because your feet
> swell
> >> and lengthen as you hike, but if you're main issue is the width of the
> toe
> >> box, this may be a good shoe for you. The zero drop heal sometimes takes
> >> some getting used to, so I'd recommend trying them as early as possible.
> >> You can always send them back if they don't work.
> >>
> >> Give them a shot and see if they fit your feet.
> >>
> >> Shroomer
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> How do the Altras run in width? I wear New Balance mostly because
> >>> they come in 4E width. The Altras only have a maximum D width. I
> >>> suspect Altras might work for me because of the toe box design. I
> >>> need the 4E because of a wide fore foot, not because of a wide heel.
> Any
> >> thoughts?
> >>>
> >>> Tom
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pct-L mailing list
> >> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> >> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >>
> >> List Archives:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> >> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> >> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pct-L mailing list
> >> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> >> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >>
> >> List Archives:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> >> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> >> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
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> >
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> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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From moodyjj at comcast.net  Tue Jan 17 17:43:25 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 23:43:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking?
In-Reply-To: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>
References: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <1310383211.91163796.1484696605546.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Ned, 

I have no explanations, just anecdotal info. My feet, and others, grew a size or two on western trails, while others did not. 

Like Jimmy Buffet said 

" ... And asking lots of questions 
Some I know the answers to 
And some I'm looking for suggestions. 

Mango 

----- Original Message -----

From: ned at mountaineducation.org 
To: "Scott Williams" <baidarker at gmail.com>, "Tom Weir" <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com> 
Cc: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com, "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 1:34:19 PM 
Subject: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking? 

Mango, Shroomer, and everyone else, 

I don't understand why hiker's feet expand and lengthen over the course of a 
long hike. I'm having a hard time simply accepting this rationale, that it's 
going to happen to all hikers. 

As you guys may know, I log between 100 and 200 days on-trail every year, 
especially since 2005. I did the PCT and CDT. I typically carry between 65 
and 80 pound packs. I always use a leather boot that is one size bigger than 
my running shoe. 

Here is the source of my confusion, my feet haven't changed since high 
school! 

What is it I am doing that everyone else is not? Why haven't my feet changed 
at all over the years? Is it that I haven't bought into the assumption that 
my feet would swell and lengthen? Could it be that my boots have been 
supporting my feet sufficiently, thus preventing this common malady? 

Would someone please explain? 


Ned Tibbits, Director 
Mountain Education, Inc. 
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott 
Williams 
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 8:43 PM 
To: Tom Weir <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com> 
Cc: Pct-L <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003 

Hey Tom, 

The Altras are all about the wide toe box and zero drop heal. Most folks 
should go with a bigger shoe as Mango suggests just because your feet swell 
and lengthen as you hike, but if you're main issue is the width of the toe 
box, this may be a good shoe for you. The zero drop heal sometimes takes 
some getting used to, so I'd recommend trying them as early as possible. 
You can always send them back if they don't work. 

Give them a shot and see if they fit your feet. 

Shroomer 



On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com> 
wrote: 

> How do the Altras run in width? I wear New Balance mostly because 
> they come in 4E width. The Altras only have a maximum D width. I 
> suspect Altras might work for me because of the toe box design. I 
> need the 4E because of a wide fore foot, not because of a wide heel. Any 
thoughts? 
> 
> Tom 
> 
_______________________________________________ 
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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 


From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 14:52:17 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 15:52:17 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking?
In-Reply-To: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>
References: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_atUo5F2GdUOK97zk193dFmP84E+Ni+y5aBW1Twttawrfg@mail.gmail.com>

One more data point, my feet did not change over my PCT hike either.  But I
do think the feet can change due to (1) swelling in heat (2) arches drop
(3) ligaments become lax. See
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/2016/04/shoes-getting-tight-feet-change-size-time/

Overall though I think the claim of expanding feed is overrated.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 1:34 PM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:

> Mango, Shroomer, and everyone else,
>
> I don't understand why hiker's feet expand and lengthen over the course of
> a
> long hike. I'm having a hard time simply accepting this rationale, that
> it's
> going to happen to all hikers.
>
> As you guys may know, I log between 100 and 200 days on-trail every year,
> especially since 2005. I did the PCT and CDT. I typically carry between 65
> and 80 pound packs. I always use a leather boot that is one size bigger
> than
> my running shoe.
>
> Here is the source of my confusion, my feet haven't changed since high
> school!
>
> What is it I am doing that everyone else is not? Why haven't my feet
> changed
> at all over the years? Is it that I haven't bought into the assumption that
> my feet would swell and lengthen? Could it be that my boots have been
> supporting my feet sufficiently, thus preventing this common malady?
>
> Would someone please explain?
>
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education, Inc.
> ned at mountaineducation.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott
> Williams
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 8:43 PM
> To: Tom Weir <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
> Cc: Pct-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
>
> Hey Tom,
>
> The Altras are all about the wide toe box and zero drop heal.  Most folks
> should go with a bigger shoe as Mango suggests just because your feet swell
> and lengthen as you hike, but if you're main issue is the width of the toe
> box, this may be a good shoe for you.  The zero drop heal sometimes takes
> some getting used to, so I'd recommend trying them as early as possible.
> You can always send them back if they don't work.
>
> Give them a shot and see if they fit your feet.
>
> Shroomer
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
> wrote:
>
> > How do the Altras run in width?  I wear New Balance mostly because
> > they come in 4E width.  The Altras only have a maximum D width.  I
> > suspect Altras might work for me because of the toe box design.  I
> > need the 4E because of a wide fore foot, not because of a wide heel.  Any
> thoughts?
> >
> > Tom
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From clairerdl at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 17:00:47 2017
From: clairerdl at gmail.com (claire rdl)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 18:00:47 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
Message-ID: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>

Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure I?d give it a shot. 

Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy around that time, any advice on avoiding them? 

Thanks in advance,
Claire



From troopharrison at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:07:33 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 18:07:33 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20761145-58B2-4A31-A861-F2CD60834C64@gmail.com>

Claire, hello! This is a great group. The Facebook pages are a lot of fun and a great source of information also.
Unfortunately I'm pretty new so I can't be much help on the advice front, but I hope you enjoy your hike!
Cheers, 
Sabrina

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2017, at 5:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure I?d give it a shot. 
> 
> Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy around that time, any advice on avoiding them? 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Claire
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:13:34 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:13:34 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>

That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of
year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but
not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure I?d
> give it a shot.
>
> Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
> and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
> Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any
> of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does
> that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy
> around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Claire
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From clairerdl at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:26:33 2017
From: clairerdl at gmail.com (clairerdl at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:26:33 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4563BE52-E262-4B5E-9B47-27F32CC71129@gmail.com>

Thanks for the advice everyone!  Has anyone flipped over the sierras and come back to them at the end of their hike? 

Also are there any estimates as to when the snow will be gone in the high sierras? Would it be gone by early august for sure or is that still unclear? 

Maybe southbound is another option? Finishing at mt whitney would be quite lovely.  Would it be reasonable to start in Oregon and end in the sierras when there is less snow in august? Thoughts?

Claire 

Claire Rossi de Leon
Yale University, Class of 2019


> On Jan 18, 2017, at 7:13 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net. 
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure I?d give it a shot.
>> 
>> Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Claire
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 

From baidarker at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:32:38 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 16:32:38 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj10pnP4FKvbr-V_-JHJ9aOrfNv_-xxf3Y3mFQ87RTD+ExQ@mail.gmail.com>

Everything that Scott said.  Head net is a must, and bug repellant, but
even in a big snow year,  I had bad bugs in Tuolumne Meadows in late June
(the whole of the High Sierra could be bad if there's a big hatch)  but
north of that, it was sporadic and not at all the run screaming from the
trail type of bug problems.  You'll be hiking some of the most gorgeous
mountains in America.  Ending at the border will put you right near Ashland
Oregon, many folks' favorite trail town.  Great food, a bit of nightlife
and the Shakespeare festival of course.  Sounds like a great plan.

Have a wonderful Summer!

Shroomer



On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com
> wrote:

> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of
> year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
> this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but
> not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure
> I?d
> > give it a shot.
> >
> > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
> > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
> > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any
> > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does
> > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy
> > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Claire
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Wed Jan 18 18:32:25 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 00:32:25 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000446efa6d74157ab263bbb5f0c1668@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

Claire--

I have section hiked most of those miles over the last few years. Yes, I agree, this is a great section to hike. As noted by Scott, this would appear to be a normal to high snow year so passes and water crossings will require attention.

A possible downside is that north of Beldon/Sierra City could have some really warm days for you by the time you get there. It might we worth considering soutbounding Oregon border to KM. You will still have some snow in the northern section but much less to deal with heading south through the Sierra. Plus hiking south bound the scenery just keeps getting better and better, with a crescendo at Whitney. Note, that you will be heading into the herd--which means you will probably see a lot of thrus but not really spending time with them except in trail towns. If you want the community side of the trail, then KM to Oregon border is a better direction.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of claire rdl
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 3:01 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike

Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure I?d give it a shot. 

Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy around that time, any advice on avoiding them? 

Thanks in advance,
Claire


_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jbruins at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:35:27 2017
From: jbruins at gmail.com (Jay Bruins)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 16:35:27 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89EF485D-3BFE-4D12-AC53-B535B1EE7C88@gmail.com>

I second the bug net, but I prefer wearing long sleeves/pants treated with permethrin. Without it, they?ll still buzz around you even if they don?t bite. With it, the bulk of your body won?t attract mosquitos and you won?t really have any need to put repellant on your hands (a good idea if you?re eating). If you treat your socks, you can even take your boots off!

I?ve used Sawyer?s permethrin product. I haven?t tried other brands.

Cheers,
Armstrong


> On Jan 18, 2017, at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of
> year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
> this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but
> not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure I?d
>> give it a shot.
>> 
>> Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
>> and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
>> Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any
>> of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does
>> that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy
>> around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Claire
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:35:32 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:35:32 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAPNr+xo-w0uYORiSKVxAVk051J4g8xD8cTDNuQEbxBQkUcZoaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPNr+xo-w0uYORiSKVxAVk051J4g8xD8cTDNuQEbxBQkUcZoaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_auAWaRfqDW=0vAqAo0bLPpxDPiTsPsObihGwRPSEm5Dow@mail.gmail.com>

There is snowtel info on snowpack. Someone posted something a while back. I
don't know how to pull it and it is pretty early to start looking anyway.

Ned posts often about snow travel. If you need to learn to use how to
safely cross snow then I'd sign up for one of his classes (
http://mountaineducation.org/). IMO there isn't any specific training for
snow much beyond general fitness. The snow/passes do not scare me but as
was posted recently the river crossing will kill you. I think that is where
you need to be careful.

In high snow years, a number of hikers have flipped up to Ashland and hiked
south to KM. Generally it is not that successful. If there is snow in the
Sierras there is also probably snow in Northern Calif. Haven't done it
myself but that is what I was told by hikers that did.

        -Scott



On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Shifali Gupta <sgupta15 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Claire,
>
> Thanks for starting this thread. I was thinking along the same lines -
> section hike from Kennedy Meadows to Ashland or Crater Lake (still deciding
> the end point).
>
> Scott, thanks for the pointer. Do we have a general snow forecast for the
> summer? Also, what would be the best way to train for snow hiking,
> especially in Sequoia and Yosemite Valley? I've read that crossing the
> passes while there's snow can be a little dicey.
>
> Thanks,
> Shifali
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <
> scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of
>> year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
>> this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but
>> not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure
>> I?d
>> > give it a shot.
>> >
>> > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
>> > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
>> > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if
>> any
>> > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does
>> > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty
>> crazy
>> > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> > Claire
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Shifali Gupta
>
> Portfolio Deployment Associate | SolarCity
> M.A. (Climate and Society) | Columbia University
> B.E. (Information Technology) | Delhi University
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/shifali-gupta/32/9b/860> | Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/ShifGupta> | Website
> <http://www.greenglobesolutions.wordpress.com/>
> #  +1-614-432-1658
>
>

From baidarker at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:41:12 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 16:41:12 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj10pnP4FKvbr-V_-JHJ9aOrfNv_-xxf3Y3mFQ87RTD+ExQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10pnP4FKvbr-V_-JHJ9aOrfNv_-xxf3Y3mFQ87RTD+ExQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj10dDskr_TqqVgV--rWJVQy+bPZ3bYi0ABdvanKduuqzKw@mail.gmail.com>

Going southbound would also be fine, as is flipping, as you're starting at
the right time for that section, but you can still encounter snow in
Northern CA in late June and Early July, just like in the Sierra.  If you
have the flexibility to decide closer to your start date, you'll be able to
follow the melt out and start at whichever end is better.  And,no matter
what the snow looks like right now, given a couple of Pineapple Express
storms (very warm) or just an early spring, the snow can be gone in a
matter of days, or a few weeks.  So trying to predict the depths right now
is a good game, but not very dependable.  The year I hiked, the spring just
never came and in June we had snow from the High Sierra to Canada in all
the  mountains.  Several friends of mine who flipped north, had to back out
after 50 miles as the blow downs and deep snow was just too much.  I hooked
up with some wonderful folks and we did 5 weeks over the Sierra, mostly in
snow, and it was some of the best backpacking any of us have ever done.

Keep some flexibility in your plans and go for whatever is best when you're
ready to start.

Shroomer

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> wrote:

> Everything that Scott said.  Head net is a must, and bug repellant, but
> even in a big snow year,  I had bad bugs in Tuolumne Meadows in late June
> (the whole of the High Sierra could be bad if there's a big hatch)  but
> north of that, it was sporadic and not at all the run screaming from the
> trail type of bug problems.  You'll be hiking some of the most gorgeous
> mountains in America.  Ending at the border will put you right near Ashland
> Oregon, many folks' favorite trail town.  Great food, a bit of nightlife
> and the Shakespeare festival of course.  Sounds like a great plan.
>
> Have a wonderful Summer!
>
> Shroomer
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <
> scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of
>> year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
>> this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but
>> not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure
>> I?d
>> > give it a shot.
>> >
>> > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
>> > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
>> > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if
>> any
>> > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does
>> > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty
>> crazy
>> > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> > Claire
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>
>

From clairerdl at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:45:08 2017
From: clairerdl at gmail.com (claire rdl)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:45:08 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj10dDskr_TqqVgV--rWJVQy+bPZ3bYi0ABdvanKduuqzKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10pnP4FKvbr-V_-JHJ9aOrfNv_-xxf3Y3mFQ87RTD+ExQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10dDskr_TqqVgV--rWJVQy+bPZ3bYi0ABdvanKduuqzKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15D20F97-566E-4FC9-A989-5D6070214AC2@gmail.com>

Thanks Scott. I guess one big question I have is how are you expected to get a permit in February (when they become available online) if you don?t really know what the snow is going to be like. The permitting is the main reason I?m asking all these questions now. 


 

> On Jan 18, 2017, at 7:41 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Going southbound would also be fine, as is flipping, as you're starting at the right time for that section, but you can still encounter snow in Northern CA in late June and Early July, just like in the Sierra.  If you have the flexibility to decide closer to your start date, you'll be able to follow the melt out and start at whichever end is better.  And,no matter what the snow looks like right now, given a couple of Pineapple Express storms (very warm) or just an early spring, the snow can be gone in a matter of days, or a few weeks.  So trying to predict the depths right now is a good game, but not very dependable.  The year I hiked, the spring just never came and in June we had snow from the High Sierra to Canada in all the  mountains.  Several friends of mine who flipped north, had to back out after 50 miles as the blow downs and deep snow was just too much.  I hooked up with some wonderful folks and we did 5 weeks over the Sierra, mostly in snow, and it was some of the best backpacking any of us have ever done.
> 
> Keep some flexibility in your plans and go for whatever is best when you're ready to start.
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com <mailto:baidarker at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Everything that Scott said.  Head net is a must, and bug repellant, but even in a big snow year,  I had bad bugs in Tuolumne Meadows in late June (the whole of the High Sierra could be bad if there's a big hatch)  but north of that, it was sporadic and not at all the run screaming from the trail type of bug problems.  You'll be hiking some of the most gorgeous mountains in America.  Ending at the border will put you right near Ashland Oregon, many folks' favorite trail town.  Great food, a bit of nightlife and the Shakespeare festival of course.  Sounds like a great plan.
> 
> Have a wonderful Summer!
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com <mailto:scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>> wrote:
> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of
> year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
> this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but
> not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com <mailto:clairerdl at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure I?d
> > give it a shot.
> >
> > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
> > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
> > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any
> > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does
> > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy
> > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Claire
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> 


From baidarker at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:48:08 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 16:48:08 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <15D20F97-566E-4FC9-A989-5D6070214AC2@gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10pnP4FKvbr-V_-JHJ9aOrfNv_-xxf3Y3mFQ87RTD+ExQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10dDskr_TqqVgV--rWJVQy+bPZ3bYi0ABdvanKduuqzKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <15D20F97-566E-4FC9-A989-5D6070214AC2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj13ymwnPERwvmjY0Sj1aA=LNeS7GhpHfjPF3b5N-CYstTQ@mail.gmail.com>

For the distance you're traveling (over 500 miles) you can pick up a permit
from the PCTA online not long before you start, for the whole section.
Contact them to find out how much time they need to get it to you. The only
place where the PCT permit is an issue due to the numbers of folks on
trail, is starting at Campo, i.e., the Mexican border.

Shroomer

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:45 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Scott. I guess one big question I have is how are you expected to
> get a permit in February (when they become available online) if you don?t
> really know what the snow is going to be like. The permitting is the main
> reason I?m asking all these questions now.
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 18, 2017, at 7:41 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Going southbound would also be fine, as is flipping, as you're starting at
> the right time for that section, but you can still encounter snow in
> Northern CA in late June and Early July, just like in the Sierra.  If you
> have the flexibility to decide closer to your start date, you'll be able to
> follow the melt out and start at whichever end is better.  And,no matter
> what the snow looks like right now, given a couple of Pineapple Express
> storms (very warm) or just an early spring, the snow can be gone in a
> matter of days, or a few weeks.  So trying to predict the depths right now
> is a good game, but not very dependable.  The year I hiked, the spring just
> never came and in June we had snow from the High Sierra to Canada in all
> the  mountains.  Several friends of mine who flipped north, had to back out
> after 50 miles as the blow downs and deep snow was just too much.  I hooked
> up with some wonderful folks and we did 5 weeks over the Sierra, mostly in
> snow, and it was some of the best backpacking any of us have ever done.
>
> Keep some flexibility in your plans and go for whatever is best when
> you're ready to start.
>
> Shroomer
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Everything that Scott said.  Head net is a must, and bug repellant, but
>> even in a big snow year,  I had bad bugs in Tuolumne Meadows in late June
>> (the whole of the High Sierra could be bad if there's a big hatch)  but
>> north of that, it was sporadic and not at all the run screaming from the
>> trail type of bug problems.  You'll be hiking some of the most gorgeous
>> mountains in America.  Ending at the border will put you right near Ashland
>> Oregon, many folks' favorite trail town.  Great food, a bit of nightlife
>> and the Shakespeare festival of course.  Sounds like a great plan.
>>
>> Have a wonderful Summer!
>>
>> Shroomer
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <
>> scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of
>>> year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
>>> this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but
>>> not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure
>>> I?d
>>> > give it a shot.
>>> >
>>> > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
>>> > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
>>> > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if
>>> any
>>> > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or
>>> does
>>> > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty
>>> crazy
>>> > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks in advance,
>>> > Claire
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Pct-L mailing list
>>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> >
>>> > List Archives:
>>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

From clairerdl at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:55:36 2017
From: clairerdl at gmail.com (claire rdl)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:55:36 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <E7A5678D-DEEB-4456-B0DB-FDF7AE891FB9@gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10pnP4FKvbr-V_-JHJ9aOrfNv_-xxf3Y3mFQ87RTD+ExQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10dDskr_TqqVgV--rWJVQy+bPZ3bYi0ABdvanKduuqzKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <15D20F97-566E-4FC9-A989-5D6070214AC2@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj13ymwnPERwvmjY0Sj1aA=LNeS7GhpHfjPF3b5N-CYstTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7A5678D-DEEB-4456-B0DB-FDF7AE891FB9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C579156D-96CF-49B7-931E-32AA32A5A612@gmail.com>

> 
> Is it ever an issue not being able to get a permit? They kind of made it seem like they would go very fast, especially northbound. 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com <mailto:baidarker at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> For the distance you're traveling (over 500 miles) you can pick up a permit from the PCTA online not long before you start, for the whole section.  Contact them to find out how much time they need to get it to you. The only place where the PCT permit is an issue due to the numbers of folks on trail, is starting at Campo, i.e., the Mexican border.
>> 
>> Shroomer
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:45 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com <mailto:clairerdl at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Thanks Scott. I guess one big question I have is how are you expected to get a permit in February (when they become available online) if you don?t really know what the snow is going to be like. The permitting is the main reason I?m asking all these questions now. 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>> On Jan 18, 2017, at 7:41 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com <mailto:baidarker at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Going southbound would also be fine, as is flipping, as you're starting at the right time for that section, but you can still encounter snow in Northern CA in late June and Early July, just like in the Sierra.  If you have the flexibility to decide closer to your start date, you'll be able to follow the melt out and start at whichever end is better.  And,no matter what the snow looks like right now, given a couple of Pineapple Express storms (very warm) or just an early spring, the snow can be gone in a matter of days, or a few weeks.  So trying to predict the depths right now is a good game, but not very dependable.  The year I hiked, the spring just never came and in June we had snow from the High Sierra to Canada in all the  mountains.  Several friends of mine who flipped north, had to back out after 50 miles as the blow downs and deep snow was just too much.  I hooked up with some wonderful folks and we did 5 weeks over the Sierra, mostly in snow, and it was some of the best backpacking any of us have ever done.
>>> 
>>> Keep some flexibility in your plans and go for whatever is best when you're ready to start.
>>> 
>>> Shroomer
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com <mailto:baidarker at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Everything that Scott said.  Head net is a must, and bug repellant, but even in a big snow year,  I had bad bugs in Tuolumne Meadows in late June (the whole of the High Sierra could be bad if there's a big hatch)  but north of that, it was sporadic and not at all the run screaming from the trail type of bug problems.  You'll be hiking some of the most gorgeous mountains in America.  Ending at the border will put you right near Ashland Oregon, many folks' favorite trail town.  Great food, a bit of nightlife and the Shakespeare festival of course.  Sounds like a great plan.
>>> 
>>> Have a wonderful Summer!
>>> 
>>> Shroomer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com <mailto:scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of
>>> year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
>>> this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but
>>> not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com <mailto:clairerdl at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure I?d
>>> > give it a shot.
>>> >
>>> > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
>>> > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
>>> > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any
>>> > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does
>>> > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy
>>> > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks in advance,
>>> > Claire
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Pct-L mailing list
>>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
>>> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
>>> >
>>> > List Archives:
>>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
>>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 


From baidarker at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 20:35:37 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 18:35:37 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <C579156D-96CF-49B7-931E-32AA32A5A612@gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10pnP4FKvbr-V_-JHJ9aOrfNv_-xxf3Y3mFQ87RTD+ExQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10dDskr_TqqVgV--rWJVQy+bPZ3bYi0ABdvanKduuqzKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <15D20F97-566E-4FC9-A989-5D6070214AC2@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj13ymwnPERwvmjY0Sj1aA=LNeS7GhpHfjPF3b5N-CYstTQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <E7A5678D-DEEB-4456-B0DB-FDF7AE891FB9@gmail.com>
 <C579156D-96CF-49B7-931E-32AA32A5A612@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj11turvvKwHOyZJMXqO2XR4Xm9oVU==QC0_HhQomd+-+WQ@mail.gmail.com>

It's only an issue when lots of people are starting from the same point,
i.e.. the Mexican border.  Starting in the Sierra or the Cascades should
not be a problem.  At least not that I know of.  Contact Jack Haskel at the
PCTA and ask this question.  Unless he's listening in and can answer it
here.  But the main issue with permits is the starting point which is being
heavily impacted by the numbers of folks wanting to thru hike the whole
trail these days.  You shouldn't have a problem.

Shroomer

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:55 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > Is it ever an issue not being able to get a permit? They kind of made it
> seem like they would go very fast, especially northbound.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Jan 18, 2017, at 7:48 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com
> <mailto:baidarker at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> For the distance you're traveling (over 500 miles) you can pick up a
> permit from the PCTA online not long before you start, for the whole
> section.  Contact them to find out how much time they need to get it to
> you. The only place where the PCT permit is an issue due to the numbers of
> folks on trail, is starting at Campo, i.e., the Mexican border.
> >>
> >> Shroomer
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:45 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com
> <mailto:clairerdl at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> Thanks Scott. I guess one big question I have is how are you expected
> to get a permit in February (when they become available online) if you
> don?t really know what the snow is going to be like. The permitting is the
> main reason I?m asking all these questions now.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jan 18, 2017, at 7:41 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com
> <mailto:baidarker at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Going southbound would also be fine, as is flipping, as you're
> starting at the right time for that section, but you can still encounter
> snow in Northern CA in late June and Early July, just like in the Sierra.
> If you have the flexibility to decide closer to your start date, you'll be
> able to follow the melt out and start at whichever end is better.  And,no
> matter what the snow looks like right now, given a couple of Pineapple
> Express storms (very warm) or just an early spring, the snow can be gone in
> a matter of days, or a few weeks.  So trying to predict the depths right
> now is a good game, but not very dependable.  The year I hiked, the spring
> just never came and in June we had snow from the High Sierra to Canada in
> all the  mountains.  Several friends of mine who flipped north, had to back
> out after 50 miles as the blow downs and deep snow was just too much.  I
> hooked up with some wonderful folks and we did 5 weeks over the Sierra,
> mostly in snow, and it was some of the best backpacking any of us have ever
> done.
> >>>
> >>> Keep some flexibility in your plans and go for whatever is best when
> you're ready to start.
> >>>
> >>> Shroomer
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com
> <mailto:baidarker at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>> Everything that Scott said.  Head net is a must, and bug repellant,
> but even in a big snow year,  I had bad bugs in Tuolumne Meadows in late
> June (the whole of the High Sierra could be bad if there's a big hatch)
> but north of that, it was sporadic and not at all the run screaming from
> the trail type of bug problems.  You'll be hiking some of the most gorgeous
> mountains in America.  Ending at the border will put you right near Ashland
> Oregon, many folks' favorite trail town.  Great food, a bit of nightlife
> and the Shakespeare festival of course.  Sounds like a great plan.
> >>>
> >>> Have a wonderful Summer!
> >>>
> >>> Shroomer
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <
> scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com <mailto:scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time
> of
> >>> year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
> >>> this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad
> but
> >>> not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com
> <mailto:clairerdl at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but
> figure I?d
> >>> > give it a shot.
> >>> >
> >>> > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000
> miles
> >>> > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at
> Kennedy
> >>> > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering
> if any
> >>> > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or
> does
> >>> > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty
> crazy
> >>> > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks in advance,
> >>> > Claire
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Pct-L mailing list
> >>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
> >>> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> >>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
> >>> >
> >>> > List Archives:
> >>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ <
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
> >>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> >>> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Pct-L mailing list
> >>> Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
> >>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
> >>>
> >>> List Archives:
> >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ <
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
> >>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> >>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From sgupta15 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 18:22:30 2017
From: sgupta15 at gmail.com (Shifali Gupta)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 16:22:30 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPNr+xo-w0uYORiSKVxAVk051J4g8xD8cTDNuQEbxBQkUcZoaQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Claire,

Thanks for starting this thread. I was thinking along the same lines -
section hike from Kennedy Meadows to Ashland or Crater Lake (still deciding
the end point).

Scott, thanks for the pointer. Do we have a general snow forecast for the
summer? Also, what would be the best way to train for snow hiking,
especially in Sequoia and Yosemite Valley? I've read that crossing the
passes while there's snow can be a little dicey.

Thanks,
Shifali

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com
> wrote:

> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of
> year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
> this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but
> not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure
> I?d
> > give it a shot.
> >
> > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
> > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
> > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any
> > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does
> > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy
> > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Claire
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>



-- 
Shifali Gupta

Portfolio Deployment Associate | SolarCity
M.A. (Climate and Society) | Columbia University
B.E. (Information Technology) | Delhi University
LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/shifali-gupta/32/9b/860> | Twitter
<https://twitter.com/ShifGupta> | Website
<http://www.greenglobesolutions.wordpress.com/>
#  +1-614-432-1658

From colton.kohnke at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 20:53:14 2017
From: colton.kohnke at gmail.com (Colton Kohnke)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:53:14 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAPNr+xo-w0uYORiSKVxAVk051J4g8xD8cTDNuQEbxBQkUcZoaQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPNr+xo-w0uYORiSKVxAVk051J4g8xD8cTDNuQEbxBQkUcZoaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL6K+5z64c1N2d6tSqG6v72DCwzm187GQS0pk86mDKNT6o-hPg@mail.gmail.com>

Very nice discussion. Except it has me reconsidering my section hike plan!
I was planning on starting at Crater lake and heading northbound to
Manning. I'd start about mid June and end around mid August. Basically, am
I nuts to do that portion that early in the season?

Thanks,
Colton

On Jan 18, 2017 7:37 PM, "Shifali Gupta" <sgupta15 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Claire,
>
> Thanks for starting this thread. I was thinking along the same lines -
> section hike from Kennedy Meadows to Ashland or Crater Lake (still deciding
> the end point).
>
> Scott, thanks for the pointer. Do we have a general snow forecast for the
> summer? Also, what would be the best way to train for snow hiking,
> especially in Sequoia and Yosemite Valley? I've read that crossing the
> passes while there's snow can be a little dicey.
>
> Thanks,
> Shifali
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <
> scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time of
> > year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
> > this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad but
> > not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure
> > I?d
> > > give it a shot.
> > >
> > > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
> > > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
> > > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if
> any
> > > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or
> does
> > > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty
> crazy
> > > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Claire
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >
> > > List Archives:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Shifali Gupta
>
> Portfolio Deployment Associate | SolarCity
> M.A. (Climate and Society) | Columbia University
> B.E. (Information Technology) | Delhi University
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/shifali-gupta/32/9b/860> | Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/ShifGupta> | Website
> <http://www.greenglobesolutions.wordpress.com/>
> #  +1-614-432-1658
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 21:09:38 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:09:38 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAL6K+5z64c1N2d6tSqG6v72DCwzm187GQS0pk86mDKNT6o-hPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPNr+xo-w0uYORiSKVxAVk051J4g8xD8cTDNuQEbxBQkUcZoaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL6K+5z64c1N2d6tSqG6v72DCwzm187GQS0pk86mDKNT6o-hPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d28e3f2-aed5-31b9-396a-f37931c1c9c5@gmail.com>

Summer snow levels aren't really projected til April.  Right now my 
sister's house at 4000' in southeast Bend has over three feet of snow on 
the ground - unheard of in the 20 years she's lived there.  AT 6300' on 
Mt. Bachelor the snow is 100" deep today.  At the 7300' level, it's 
122".  The resort has had 316" of snow since October 1.

McKenzie Pass, at 5300' has opened as late as July 29.  If you've free 
time, you could link the opening dates to April 1 snow levels.

http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/REGION4/Documents/McKenzieHighwayOpeningClosingDates.pdf

Jeff
Laramie, WY

On 1/18/2017 6:53 PM, Colton Kohnke wrote:
> Very nice discussion. Except it has me reconsidering my section hike plan!
> I was planning on starting at Crater lake and heading northbound to
> Manning. I'd start about mid June and end around mid August. Basically, am
> I nuts to do that portion that early in the season?
>
> Thanks,
> Colton
>


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From baidarker at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 21:13:13 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:13:13 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAL6K+5z64c1N2d6tSqG6v72DCwzm187GQS0pk86mDKNT6o-hPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPNr+xo-w0uYORiSKVxAVk051J4g8xD8cTDNuQEbxBQkUcZoaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL6K+5z64c1N2d6tSqG6v72DCwzm187GQS0pk86mDKNT6o-hPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj11Vm57VLd59-upM9qJWJrBgM7=M8qbtdgufbqcw6=zczg@mail.gmail.com>

You're not crazy Colton, but it's way too early to know what will be melted
out by then.  Typically, in mid June there's still the good possibility of
snow from the Sierra to the Canadian border.  We still found ourselves
walking daily on some leftover snow till August, north of the Sierra, but
that was a cold spring.  In years when things melt out early, as in all of
the drought years, people were entering the Sierra in early May with no
snow equipment.  So the weather closer to departure should be the guiding
star for you folks doing sections.  With not having to make it to Canada,
you're free to hike whatever sections are the best this year.

Doing Ned's training, as Scott suggests is a great way to get comfortable
with snow.  If the year is high snow by departure, you'll want to have some
kind of traction devices and an ice ax, and the ability to use both.  If we
get a quick spring melt out, which is not uncommon either, you may not need
either.

Another strategy  if the snow is high come mid June might be to start just
north of Sonora Pass and head north, as the northern Sierra is much lower
in elevation than the aptly named High Sierra to the south.  By the time
you get to Oregon, you'll be incredibly strong and you could probably knock
out the whole of Oregon, which is much faster hiking and quite beautiful.

But it's too early in the season right now to know with any certainty what
the snow pack will be come June.

Shroomer

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Colton Kohnke <colton.kohnke at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Very nice discussion. Except it has me reconsidering my section hike plan!
> I was planning on starting at Crater lake and heading northbound to
> Manning. I'd start about mid June and end around mid August. Basically, am
> I nuts to do that portion that early in the season?
>
> Thanks,
> Colton
>
> On Jan 18, 2017 7:37 PM, "Shifali Gupta" <sgupta15 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Claire,
> >
> > Thanks for starting this thread. I was thinking along the same lines -
> > section hike from Kennedy Meadows to Ashland or Crater Lake (still
> deciding
> > the end point).
> >
> > Scott, thanks for the pointer. Do we have a general snow forecast for the
> > summer? Also, what would be the best way to train for snow hiking,
> > especially in Sequoia and Yosemite Valley? I've read that crossing the
> > passes while there's snow can be a little dicey.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Shifali
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <
> > scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time
> of
> > > year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much snow
> > > this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be bad
> but
> > > not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but
> figure
> > > I?d
> > > > give it a shot.
> > > >
> > > > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000
> miles
> > > > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at
> Kennedy
> > > > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if
> > any
> > > > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or
> > does
> > > > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty
> > crazy
> > > > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > Claire
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > > >
> > > > List Archives:
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >
> > > List Archives:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shifali Gupta
> >
> > Portfolio Deployment Associate | SolarCity
> > M.A. (Climate and Society) | Columbia University
> > B.E. (Information Technology) | Delhi University
> > LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/shifali-gupta/32/9b/860> | Twitter
> > <https://twitter.com/ShifGupta> | Website
> > <http://www.greenglobesolutions.wordpress.com/>
> > #  +1-614-432-1658
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From melaniekclarke at gmail.com  Wed Jan 18 23:27:53 2017
From: melaniekclarke at gmail.com (Melanie Clarke)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 21:27:53 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKeeMLegHexi2cG3qejUp4Sq-J0OwrPFWvQuTHyzmJGsdKrEQA@mail.gmail.com>

Last summer I hiked from Tuolumne to Sonora Pass, notorious for mosquito
infestation. I bought some spray Permethrin from REI and sprayed my
clothing before my hike, including hiking gloves.  In places where
mosquitos were severe, I wore a head net and Deet on all exposed areas of
skin.  I even hiked in shorts but with Deet on my legs.  Stream crossings
will wash off the Deet from the legs so you will have to reapply.  However,
with this combination, I had no trouble.  Just south of Dorothy Lakes in
Yosemite, I had hundreds of mosquitoes clinging to my head net but this
really demonstrated how effective Deet and treating clothing with
Permethrin is.  Pitch your tent, quickly crawl in and zip them out.

Diet Plan

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 3:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but figure I?d
> give it a shot.
>
> Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 miles
> and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at Kennedy
> Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was wondering if any
> of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or does
> that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are pretty crazy
> around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Claire
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Thu Jan 19 23:08:53 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 21:08:53 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Quick Sierra snow thoughts (series)
Message-ID: <2dc001d272db$4bba71c0$e32f5540$@mountaineducation.org>

Ok, I'm back from Mordor (one helluva trip, but it worked out)! Those who
are my friends on Facebook will know what I'm talking about.

 

"Snow Pack thoughts" will be a series of responses to the stuff you guys
have been talking about over the last week or two that I've been out and
about.

 

Current snowpack observations, Kirkwood to Donner, should be of no
surprise.there's deep snow out there and more falling as I speak!

 

What does this mean to the April, May, June, or July backpacker of the PCT
or JMT?

 

You still walk on top of it!

 

April:     The pack should be consolidated by then, so walking on top of it
will be a breeze. Know your snow skills! Watch for my trail condition
reviews starting mid-April for the southern Sierra. Anticipate the chance of
late season snow storms dumping up to a few feet of snow and know what to do
and not do during and after such an event. Snowshoes may be wanted for
powder snow, should you get some, but after it's consolidated, you won't be
using them. Bring cold and wet weather gear, boots with stiff edges and
heels, a day or two of extra food, a 3-season tent (at least), a self-arrest
pole like the BD Whippet, snow glasses, and hiking crampons (just to name a
few required things). Anticipate glissading off the passes (major rush!),
assessing and maybe utilizing snow bridges (know how!), enjoying walking on
smooth snow without postholing, and not worrying about creek crossings.
Snowline could be as low as 8,500 feet.

 

May:      All of the above, or at least until the thaw starts, and
anticipate more sunshine and the decreasing chance of new snow. Snowline
could be as low as 9,000 feet.

 

June:     All of the above until you've heard that the thaw has started,
then you can anticipate suncups, postholing, collapsing snow bridges, really
slippery snow, and roaring creeks. The nights are still just above freezing,
unless the thaw is intense, so the morning snow is usually hard enough to
hold your weight till about noon. Get off the snow by then (over the pass
and down the other side to dry trail). Once the thaw starts, the pack melts
out big time.unless there are a lot of clouds, wind, or late season snow
storms. Last May, the thaw started late, around the 25th, but with a fury,
melting out nearly 4-5 feet of snow the first 10 days! Nevertheless, the
snowline could be as low as 10,500.

 

July:       (After a heavy winter) Anticipate soft, slippery snow even early
in the morning (0500-0900) with postholing happening about mid-morning
instead of closer to noon in June. Suncups will be huge and deep with soft
bottoms prone to postholing. Snowline could be around 11,500-12,000.

 

August: Though we haven't had a "normal" winter in the Sierra for maybe 30
years, we certainly haven't had a "heavy" one for even longer, but I do
remember them! August used to be the time of "normal" summer backpacking
where the snow would only be on the north sides of the passes and only up
high on the last switchbacks where it was the steepest. It could be like
that this year, but who knows. Prepare for it, just to be safe.

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From ned at mountaineducation.org  Thu Jan 19 23:24:26 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 21:24:26 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Jan 11th CA Snowpack Chart
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR13MB107397CE276CF9DDEB9FBAE5AE660@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN6PR13MB107397CE276CF9DDEB9FBAE5AE660@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2dd001d272dd$7854fbe0$68fef3a0$@mountaineducation.org>

>From what I hear in my ski patrol circles, that big rain event causing
serious Sierra run-off and lowland flooding a week or two ago didn't
obliterate the prior snowpack back to dirt as forecasters feared. The
snowpack was already incredibly deep and just absorbed it, for the most
part, of course. This rain event in early January caused huge overloading
(with water weight) of the existing pack resulting in huge avalanches!

Weathercarrot showed that the Sierra around 1/11 had roughly 150-190% of a
normal snowpack with 10 weeks to go (to April 1st)! Remember, the 2011
snowpack ended with "only" 200% on Donner April 1st (I think! I'm not a
statistician...) and we called that a "heavy" winter!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of
Weathercarrot -
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:23 AM
To: PCT List <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Jan 11th CA Snowpack Chart

Latest chart came out this morning.


Sierra showing between 156 and 187 percent of normal to date, more than
twice what it showed a week ago.  This is despite snow levels maxing out
around 10k during the height of the weekend storm.


http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Fri Jan 20 01:30:46 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:30:46 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] Re: Snow levels
In-Reply-To: <CAOkG4c4uBivciw0PT11FhKc3mF_rnM+7prU555gPZJnsorcdTA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOkG4c7dBujDN1vWBsMt7hrixKx5iKQhH=68RLr6sKA45XTRxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOkG4c5PvgdD1kb_smcRiyosmxxaxi-AwO4ven4Ls-QY25VHZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOkG4c7kxrVgDHa=X84C6X3SpAA1WcqQVE5qs3sJb7_dgpR23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOkG4c6wWuL4=QE6f0ayWeknDp3qtGu=VbBQVefZTkQQkCDqPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOkG4c7fGVoU=VKuNDfczNzsY9HY+dzvLPRfrc214HTVZuKa6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOkG4c4uBivciw0PT11FhKc3mF_rnM+7prU555gPZJnsorcdTA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2e9801d272ef$1eb9d0d0$5c2d7270$@mountaineducation.org>

Inga, Kim, and veritasgrad? 

 

Ingo & Kim: I loved your responses to ?veritasgrad!?  Basically, who knows what June will look like above 9,500 feet. Unless you happen to remember what ?normal? or ?big? winters looked like way back when, pre-drought years, let?s revisit them:

 

A ?normal? winter meant you?d have a fair amount of snow-hiking in July, but it would be glorious!

A ?big snow? winter meant you?d have a fair amount of snow-hiking into August?and you?d come home with a helluva tan!

 

July and August were the backpacking months. Bugs were terrible come mid-July. This was normal.

 

During the drought years, 6 weeks pealed off this timeline. The snow and environmental conditions that were normal for mid-July after a classic, ?normal? winter, happened around the first of June. Early season hiking started in May, where you?d have a few miles of snow-hiking on either sides of every pass. As Inga said, we got used to the drought year?s conditions and timing. 

 

So, let?s see if I can add anything to help ?veritasgrad,?

 

1.	?Will there still be significant snow on the ground or will most if it have melted?? 

*	Depends on the winter and thaw. Most likely will be.

 

2.	?Will the trail be difficult to find and follow??

*	When the trail is buried under snow, the answer, obviously, is a resounding ?Yes!? and is worse below timberline, but better above the trees. Topo map and GPS reading skills can help a lot, but learning how to navigate over snow by being topographically aware of where you are and where you?re going is a lot more relaxing! There may be, also, a boot track pounded into the snow forming a trench to follow, but only if it is going where you need to go. Will you know where you want to go when all you see are trees ahead of you? Will you know where you are anyway?

 

3.	?Will river crossings be dangerous??

*	During the first month after the thaw starts, the amount of water running below snowline is ridiculous! Water is cascading off the high, granite walls all around you and making so much noise you?ll think you?re in Rivendell or Yosemite Valley! Depending on the intensity of the thaw (anytime after mid-May), the creek crossings can be hazardous during early season, but those with training and experience can cross safely. If you don?t know what you?re doing and you?re in the thick of the run-off, you might want to wait for help to get you across the creek. If the thaw is past it?s prime, a creek?s height, volume, and rate will slowly diminish, but whether it is mellow enough for you to cross is based on your training and experience. That?s why Mountain Education teaches creek-crossing skills to early season backpackers like the PCT thru hikers who have to be there then in order to reach Canada by mid-September.

 

4.	?Would it be better to push my hike back a couple weeks??

*	?Yes!? If it is a light winter and you want to get by without snow or creek skills training. 
*	?It doesn?t matter much.? If we get a normal to heavy winter, you?re going to have snow somewhere along the line, also meaning the creeks will be running fast and deep into August, maybe, as well.
*	Pick a date and enjoy what you get. If you can learn how to hike safely on steep snow before your trip, you will be empowered, confident, and relaxed. If you find that you?re over your head, turn around. Be safe out there! Just because there?s snow, doesn?t mean you can?t go, just know what you?re doing. Learning from someone who has ?Been there, Done that? and can teach is priceless to making you a better person, ready for fun because you?re prepared!

 

5.	?Any other things I should prepare for differently given the high snow fall??

*	Prepare for more wet clothing, gear, and body.
*	Anticipate snow difficulties like suncups, postholing, and steep snow ascents/descents/traverses.
*	Expect a bit more cooler temperatures.
*	Resupply locations may not be open yet (depends on the winter and thaw, again).

 

Did that shed any light on the subject of early-season JMT thru hiking? If the PCT thrus can do it, so can you!

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

 <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org> ned at mountaineducation.org 

 

From: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2017 7:11 AM
To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Snow levels

 

  

June is typically considered early in the Sierra. If this turns out to be a normal or above normal season you would be well advised to consider a later start or be comfortable with your snow skills and have the appropriate equipment, such as a whippet and crampons. I've hiked in the Sierra for decades and have had many a trip aborted in early July due to lingering snow. Some people started to think of the drought years as normal.

 

Inga Aksamit

"Highs and Lows on the John Muir Trail"

__._,_.___

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Posted by: Inga Aksamit <ingasadventures at gmail.com <mailto:ingasadventures at gmail.com> > 

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From baidarker at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 00:56:05 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 22:56:05 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
In-Reply-To: <2df001d272e6$f3327320$d9975960$@mountaineducation.org>
References: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzn9BpvdouAAAMXqw9G7wcN_AGi6rh=7xUw3bzT9bLddbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFxDeYKU-rG2YNxFHPvg05V2BnAUTp32a5F3fj=ijq8+Y-bSpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzkp8NCbzfzsEBPPZZDJ39kcef+ojOAdUeLijN=iKXOH2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj13W2LbgxRRy8jTq-ODwS+0LBFvBNt8f05aasMn7Yd03Sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2df001d272e6$f3327320$d9975960$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj11DNSjAhCS3ABeJvion8M+Pcbn7OekVJ=ZWGgBdE7J6Mg@mail.gmail.com>

All good stuff Ned.  By far, the river crossings were the most dangerous
passages that I've ever done on any of the trails.  Lightning at 13,000 and
14,000 feet is right up there as far as danger, but the river crossings in
high melt out are by far the most dangerous.

One thing to know when coming to a really full stream, is that there can be
a tremendous difference between the depth of the water in the late
afternoon with the depth in the morning.  Overnight, the temperatures
usually fall below freezing and the runoff slows down considerably.  With a
nice sunny California mountain day, the snow melts creating torrents and
waterfalls where they don't usually exist, and streams get deeper and
deeper all day.  So, if you come to a really dangerous crossing in the
afternoon, and can't find a safe place upstream to cross, camp on the bank
and try again in the early morning.  Nothing like ice water first thing in
the morning to get you running down trail to warm up.

We camped on the bank of the Tuolumne River in Lyle Canyon.  In the late
afternoon the banks of the river were overflowing into the meadows.  By the
next morning the river had dropped about 3 feet. Huge difference.

The whippets and other devices look good, but I still prefer an ice ax and
found plenty of times when plunging the shaft to belay was the only safe
thing to do on steep traverses on the PCT and the CDT.  But the whippets
look good, I just haven't made the switch.

As for hiking cramps, the Kahtoolas I used in 2010 were my favorite piece
of gear for the summer,  they were so solid. Much better than microspikes.
I have their original aluminum spike cramps, which friends have had trouble
finding lately.  I talked to the Kahtoola folks last week at the Outdoor
Retailer show in Salt Lake City, and learned that they have fazed them out
in favor of steel spike hiking cramps, which although only a few ounces
more, are much better at staying sharp.  It seems too many people were
walking over rocks in their aluminum cramps and dulling the metal.  I think
they got tired of replacing them.  Anyway, they're all steel now.  But,
again, my favorite piece of gear in a high snow year.

Shroomer

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 10:32 PM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:

> Hey, Shroomer!
>
> I'm going to start adding a few comments to each of your snow-related posts
> since 1/13, as I've been out of the office for a little while (medical
> recert courses...),
>
> There is a huge difference between having the right gear or the right
> skills
> for snow!
>
> Having the right gear means nothing if you do not know what to do with it.
> Even practicing at home, reading accounts, or watching videos doesn't
> translate to doing the right physical actions that will keep you safe.
>
> Having the right skills, coupled with understanding what you're looking at
> (regarding risks ahead of you on the snow), is what will bring you
> confidence, peace of mind, and free you up to enjoy and play on snow
> without
> fear or concern.
>
> This applies to creek crossings, too! When you're confronted by a
> whitewater
> torrent that makes so much noise you have to yell at your partners standing
> next to you just to be heard, you've got to take the crossing very
> seriously! Steep snow has the potential to bring you painful injury and a
> helicopter ride to the hospital, but creek crossings can and have been
> fatal
> to backpackers not trained in assessment and crossing skills. That's why
> Mountain Education teaches safe creek crossing techniques.
>
> Ice axes are great tools for mountaineering, but in the hands of a
> backpacker, they make little sense. How do you hold it, when do you use it,
> and why are all foreign concepts. Heck, walking on snow was something we
> all
> avoided until we couldn't, then realized it adds so much to the beauty and
> fun of a hike! The Self-Arrest Pole is a far more practical tool for the
> snow-hiker who isn't self-belaying or chopping steps in ice.
>
> The subject of traction devices has been exhausted, but if anyone missed
> those posts, just go to the Mountain Education Facebook page for great
> info!
> Basically, though, if you're not walking in someone else's footsteps, take
> hiking crampons early season; if you are in a boot-track, take microspikes.
> Know the pros and cons of both because tools, by themselves, do not make
> you
> safe!
>
> How much snow will you have to deal with? I can't answer that any more than
> I can predict the weather! As a few have already said,
>
> - the depth of the snow doesn't matter. You walk on top of it anyway.
> - the temperature of the winter will dictate where snowline may be when you
> get there. Colder = lower.
> - the timing and intensity of the sierra thaw will do the same. Late start
> =
> lower. Early & Hot = higher
> - additional spring snow, wind, cool temps, or even just clouds will keep
> the snow around longer.
> - heavy rains will accelerate the thaw and make the snow go away faster
> (and
> the creeks to rise higher!).
> - if you're staring at it, you're going to have to walk over or around it,
> but sooner or later you'd better know how!
> - waiting for the snow to melt is like watching grass grow. Yes, you can
> select a hiking date later in the season to avoid miles of snow-hiking near
> the high passes, but after a normal or heavy winter, that date may be
> mid-August...
>
> Snow is a joy and adds so much fun and beauty to a hike. Learn how to play
> on it safely and you'll have a blast out there!
>
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education, Inc.
> ned at mountaineducation.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott
> Williams
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 1:55 PM
> To: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
>
> I completely agree with Brick regarding the relative safety of snow with
> the
> right gear and technique, vs the very real danger of the swollen streams.
> In 2010, a high snow year due to a very late melt out, we also had to go
> well upstream of the usual little summer crossing of Evolution Creek,  and
> made human chains to get the lighter weight members of our party across
> Bear
> Creek.  That one was really scary.
>
> One of my favorite pieces of gear that year were full on Kahtoola hiking
> crampons.  They're relatively light and allow you to cut steps and do the
> kind of plunge stepping you'll need.  Much better in real Sierra snow pack
> than Microspikes and only a touch heavier.  My buddy Venture in cramps, had
> to cut steps last year for folks with Microspikes who's spikes had "balled
> up" so badly they couldn't go forward.  In really serious, crusty, icy
> early
> season conditions, I much prefer real hiking cramps.
>
> A good light weight ice axe was also essential to safely belay yourself on
> the steep traverses, for cutting steps, and for safe glissading.
>
> Another thing we did because of the high snow was to head out of Lone Pine
> with a group of friends who promised to stay together through the High
> Sierra to Sonora Pass.  Not only was this a safe move, it gave all of us
> the
> most wonderful if hard backpacking experience of our lives.  I count all
> these folks as some of my dearest friends to this day.
>
> With all of this, keep in mind that all can change in a few weeks of early
> warm weather, or virtually overnight given a heavy "pineapple express" rain
> storm.  But being ready to change up your strategy and gear is often
> essential for a thru hike.
>
> Have a wonderful hike!  The snow only adds to the fun you'll have if you're
> prepared for it.
>
> Shroomer
>
> On Jan 13, 2017 11:53 AM, "Brick Robbins" <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:08 AM, Casey Stevens
> > <costevens078 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Appreciate the admonishments!
> >
> > Snow is what seems to concern folks about early entry into the Sierra,
> > but snow is really not that big a deal. Postholing is a pain and slows
> > you down, but if you carry and iceaxe and you know how to use it, then
> > snow travel is fairly safe, just be careful of falling through the
> > snow into voids caused by running water.
> >
> > The REAL danger is getting killed in stream crossings. Most of the big
> > rivers will have bridges, but many of the "jump across" streams will
> > be swollen to raging waist deep (or deeper) torrents.
> >
> > I was swept away at Bear Creek, and could have easily been killed.
> > Kerrick Canyon was downright scary, and a fall would have been deadly.
> >
> > I had to cross Evolution Creek (in the meadows, well upstream of the
> > normal crossing) by putting my pack in a bag, and swimming in the
> > freezing runoff water. Crossing at the normal ford would have been
> > deadly.
> >
> > The water was so high that wading was require at both sides of the
> > Glen Aulin Bridge over the Tuolumne river.
> >
> > The snow may slow you down, but the water will kill you.
> >
> > Be careful out there
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
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> >
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> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Fri Jan 20 00:32:18 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 22:32:18 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj13W2LbgxRRy8jTq-ODwS+0LBFvBNt8f05aasMn7Yd03Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFxDeYKvwVFrw59OzVctrfK4H2-PadzN0ZSMEKyZKQWRm=H=zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzn9BpvdouAAAMXqw9G7wcN_AGi6rh=7xUw3bzT9bLddbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFxDeYKU-rG2YNxFHPvg05V2BnAUTp32a5F3fj=ijq8+Y-bSpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nzkp8NCbzfzsEBPPZZDJ39kcef+ojOAdUeLijN=iKXOH2g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj13W2LbgxRRy8jTq-ODwS+0LBFvBNt8f05aasMn7Yd03Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2df001d272e6$f3327320$d9975960$@mountaineducation.org>

Hey, Shroomer! 

I'm going to start adding a few comments to each of your snow-related posts
since 1/13, as I've been out of the office for a little while (medical
recert courses...),

There is a huge difference between having the right gear or the right skills
for snow! 

Having the right gear means nothing if you do not know what to do with it.
Even practicing at home, reading accounts, or watching videos doesn't
translate to doing the right physical actions that will keep you safe.

Having the right skills, coupled with understanding what you're looking at
(regarding risks ahead of you on the snow), is what will bring you
confidence, peace of mind, and free you up to enjoy and play on snow without
fear or concern.

This applies to creek crossings, too! When you're confronted by a whitewater
torrent that makes so much noise you have to yell at your partners standing
next to you just to be heard, you've got to take the crossing very
seriously! Steep snow has the potential to bring you painful injury and a
helicopter ride to the hospital, but creek crossings can and have been fatal
to backpackers not trained in assessment and crossing skills. That's why
Mountain Education teaches safe creek crossing techniques.

Ice axes are great tools for mountaineering, but in the hands of a
backpacker, they make little sense. How do you hold it, when do you use it,
and why are all foreign concepts. Heck, walking on snow was something we all
avoided until we couldn't, then realized it adds so much to the beauty and
fun of a hike! The Self-Arrest Pole is a far more practical tool for the
snow-hiker who isn't self-belaying or chopping steps in ice.

The subject of traction devices has been exhausted, but if anyone missed
those posts, just go to the Mountain Education Facebook page for great info!
Basically, though, if you're not walking in someone else's footsteps, take
hiking crampons early season; if you are in a boot-track, take microspikes.
Know the pros and cons of both because tools, by themselves, do not make you
safe!

How much snow will you have to deal with? I can't answer that any more than
I can predict the weather! As a few have already said, 

- the depth of the snow doesn't matter. You walk on top of it anyway.
- the temperature of the winter will dictate where snowline may be when you
get there. Colder = lower.
- the timing and intensity of the sierra thaw will do the same. Late start =
lower. Early & Hot = higher
- additional spring snow, wind, cool temps, or even just clouds will keep
the snow around longer.
- heavy rains will accelerate the thaw and make the snow go away faster (and
the creeks to rise higher!).
- if you're staring at it, you're going to have to walk over or around it,
but sooner or later you'd better know how!
- waiting for the snow to melt is like watching grass grow. Yes, you can
select a hiking date later in the season to avoid miles of snow-hiking near
the high passes, but after a normal or heavy winter, that date may be
mid-August...

Snow is a joy and adds so much fun and beauty to a hike. Learn how to play
on it safely and you'll have a blast out there!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott
Williams
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 1:55 PM
To: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Snow snow snow. Let's go!

I completely agree with Brick regarding the relative safety of snow with the
right gear and technique, vs the very real danger of the swollen streams.
In 2010, a high snow year due to a very late melt out, we also had to go
well upstream of the usual little summer crossing of Evolution Creek,  and
made human chains to get the lighter weight members of our party across Bear
Creek.  That one was really scary.

One of my favorite pieces of gear that year were full on Kahtoola hiking
crampons.  They're relatively light and allow you to cut steps and do the
kind of plunge stepping you'll need.  Much better in real Sierra snow pack
than Microspikes and only a touch heavier.  My buddy Venture in cramps, had
to cut steps last year for folks with Microspikes who's spikes had "balled
up" so badly they couldn't go forward.  In really serious, crusty, icy early
season conditions, I much prefer real hiking cramps.

A good light weight ice axe was also essential to safely belay yourself on
the steep traverses, for cutting steps, and for safe glissading.

Another thing we did because of the high snow was to head out of Lone Pine
with a group of friends who promised to stay together through the High
Sierra to Sonora Pass.  Not only was this a safe move, it gave all of us the
most wonderful if hard backpacking experience of our lives.  I count all
these folks as some of my dearest friends to this day.

With all of this, keep in mind that all can change in a few weeks of early
warm weather, or virtually overnight given a heavy "pineapple express" rain
storm.  But being ready to change up your strategy and gear is often
essential for a thru hike.

Have a wonderful hike!  The snow only adds to the fun you'll have if you're
prepared for it.

Shroomer

On Jan 13, 2017 11:53 AM, "Brick Robbins" <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 4:08 AM, Casey Stevens 
> <costevens078 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Appreciate the admonishments!
>
> Snow is what seems to concern folks about early entry into the Sierra, 
> but snow is really not that big a deal. Postholing is a pain and slows 
> you down, but if you carry and iceaxe and you know how to use it, then 
> snow travel is fairly safe, just be careful of falling through the 
> snow into voids caused by running water.
>
> The REAL danger is getting killed in stream crossings. Most of the big 
> rivers will have bridges, but many of the "jump across" streams will 
> be swollen to raging waist deep (or deeper) torrents.
>
> I was swept away at Bear Creek, and could have easily been killed.
> Kerrick Canyon was downright scary, and a fall would have been deadly.
>
> I had to cross Evolution Creek (in the meadows, well upstream of the 
> normal crossing) by putting my pack in a bag, and swimming in the 
> freezing runoff water. Crossing at the normal ford would have been 
> deadly.
>
> The water was so high that wading was require at both sides of the 
> Glen Aulin Bridge over the Tuolumne river.
>
> The snow may slow you down, but the water will kill you.
>
> Be careful out there
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
_______________________________________________
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From hikermiker at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 20 05:58:27 2017
From: hikermiker at yahoo.com (Mike Cunningham)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 11:58:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Eat N Tool
References: <1495414568.470005.1484913507621.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1495414568.470005.1484913507621@mail.yahoo.com>




 
 Has anyone tried one of these?
 
 It seems that it is heavy at 1.4 oz. That it has a shallow
 bowl & stingy tines, and some useless metric wrench
 cutouts but it has a flat head screwdriver and a cap
 lifter.
 
 The compactness interests me but do you get your hand all
 gooey trying to eat with it?
 
 Anyway any real world use reports would be of interest.
 
 hikermiker
 

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Fri Jan 20 13:39:32 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 11:39:32 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] Piute/Bishop in June
In-Reply-To: <9F8C0B8C-6A74-475D-AD84-488E2BA0F745@vectorhive.com>
References: <9F8C0B8C-6A74-475D-AD84-488E2BA0F745@vectorhive.com>
Message-ID: <326601d27354$ec96d240$c5c476c0$@mountaineducation.org>

Matthew, 

 

Thanks for asking. I try to always be here to help anyone wanting to visit
our incredible mountain wilderness, the Sierra Nevada!

 

As a former backcountry ranger in Humphreys basin and having just been over
Piute last June, I think I can shed some light on your questions.

 

1.	Early Season trail condition reports:

Starting about mid-April, Mountain Education begins teaching its Snow
Advanced Courses in the southern Sierra, between Cottonwood and Kearsarge
Passes. These are offered to July. If snow and weather conditions allow, we
will be posting exactly such Trail/Snow Conditions Reports on our wilderness
school's home page. For the most part, I would say that what we see
regarding trail conditions, snow locations, snowline, creek volumes, and
other such early season joys as postholing and suncups, will apply to the
Muir-Piute area as well. 

 

2.	How much use do Piute and Bishop Passes receive during May-July:

There sierra access routes begin to see use, even if still snow-impacted,
with the arrival of the PCT herd going north in April-June. Last year the
North Lake parking lot wasn't full in June, but almost so! The backpackers I
met along the trail to Piute were mainly day hikers and once across the
pass, I didn't see another person for several days nor footprints on the
snow or in the mud of the trailbed. Yet, the skilled are there, exploring
upper cols, earning their turns on skis down the steep snow, and heading
down to the JMT ranch to make the loop you talk of. Snowline in mid-June
last year was just above Loch Leven, at about 10,900 feet, but was only
patchy up to the upper bowl at 11,200 where it became solid over the pass.
Because that approach trail is largely on a south facing exposure as you go
up the canyon, snow melts off quickly after the thaw starts. Who knows what
we will see, though, this June! (I'll let everyone know, though). Humphreys
Basin had large fields of snow covering the trail, but over-snow navigation
was easy on the descent toward Golden Trout because you are above treeline
and can see where you want to be in an hour. Snowline on this northside
descent was at about 10,800.

 

3.	North-South Passes and early season snow (Bishop and Muir Passes):

Southerly exposures will melt out faster once the thaw begins, so if you see
that your trail ahead is going across these sunny slopes, they will probably
be dry, especially if we have a less than normal winter. If not, plan to be
kicking and edging on snow. Since storm winds blow from the South-west, the
deepest snow will be on the North-east sides of things due to wind
transport, if the topography allows. 

 

Muir Pass is sheltered by Mt. Solomons and Black Giant, so the whole route
from Starr's Camp on the south to Sapphire Lake on the north side hold its
snow quite late into every season, thus miles of glorious and beautiful
snow-hiking!

 

Bishop Pass looks like it should be an E-W pass, but it isn't, if you look
at the topo map. The route up to Dusy Basin is largely in trees, so if the
snowline is low, expect snow. If the thaw is in full swing, the wooden
bridge at 10,200 could be pretty wet with spray! The basin itself holds snow
(I've been in there in early July where we hit flooding and solid snow from
the first lake all the way to the pass) because it is the deposition basin
for Giraud and Columbine Peaks to its south. The pass can be very
wind-blown, so snow often thins out on its southern aspect fairly early
while the same wind loads the northern side with potentially deep snow
covering the switchbacks. Know how to glissade, heel-plunge, and self-arrest
in this area. If you pick the right route down, this glissade could be the
most fun one of your trip! The continued walk out to South Lake can have
solid snow all the way to Long Lake, depending on conditions at the time, of
course because it is a northern aspect drainage. (The backcountry skiers
love it, though!).

 

4.	East-West Passes and early season snow (Piute):

Piute's trail is pretty exposed, so the snow should melt off of it pretty
early. Note wherever it is on N, NE, and NW aspects and expect snow above
the current snowline. Humphrey's basin is pretty flat, but every trail will
have its short, steep, shaded areas where snow will linger longer than out
in the sun, so be prepared to know how to traverse and descend on
potentially consolidated snow amidst trees.

 

5.	No matter where you are in the Sierra, your route will go up, down,
or across all aspects and slopes. That's one of the beauties of Sierra
travel, you get to experience all it has to offer. So, at least in my
opinion, the NL-SL loop will present you with the same joys and challenges
as a JMT thru hike, just shorter!

 

I hope this description helped everyone who desires to do such a route
during the early season (mid-April to July) and will serve to encourage them
to become better prepared for a safe hike!

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

 <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org> ned at mountaineducation.org 

 

From: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 7:33 AM
To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [John Muir Trail] Piute/Bishop in June

 

  

Hello to all and particularly Ned Tibbets!

I have a permit for the North Lake South Lake Loop in mid June. I know I can
rely on the Yahoo JMT Group for trail condition reports in the weeks leading
up to my trip but if you (or anyone else here) has an opinion about how much
use Piute and Bishop Pass see in the early season? I see far fewer reports
on their condition here (and on High Sierra Topix). 

I would imagine that Piute and Bishop see quite a bit of travel early
season. I can expect similar conditions to what I'm reading about at Muir on
Bishop, because it faces north/south. 

I'm not sure what an happens on east/west pass like Piute. Any thoughts on
that?

Here's another, perhaps simpler, question: is hiking the North Lake South
Lake Loop much different in June much different than hiking the JMT in June?


__._,_.___

  _____  

Posted by: Matthew King <matthew at vectorhive.com
<mailto:matthew at vectorhive.com> > 

  _____  


 
<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/conversations/messages/63
537;_ylc=X3oDMTJxOTBpYXUyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUzMzQ3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA
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Please strip out replied-to text if not necessary to your reply.  Just
select the unnecessary text and delete it. Failure to strip makes it hard
for our Daily Digest members to find the new postings among the repeats. For
the crib sheet to take on JMT: http://climber.org/data/JMTCribSheet.pdf or
http://bit.ly/JMTcribsheet - Prints on 1 sheet all the essential phone
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__,_._,___


From jtpapini at icloud.com  Sat Jan 21 17:59:21 2017
From: jtpapini at icloud.com (John Papini)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 18:59:21 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Eat N Tool
In-Reply-To: <1495414568.470005.1484913507621@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1495414568.470005.1484913507621.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1495414568.470005.1484913507621@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B6F1FD1F-9587-43F7-B924-C27995CE9DF8@icloud.com>

You answered your own question, my friend. It is heavy and you get your hands dirty trying to eat. I got one as a gift; cute novelty item, but I didn?t like it. I?ll keep my long handled spoon, but to each his own. I never needed a flat head screwdriver on the trail, using coins for my bear can and trekking poles. Use my lighter to open bottles.

Happy trails!

> On Jan 20, 2017, at 6:58 AM, Mike Cunningham <hikermiker at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried one of these?
> 
> It seems that it is heavy at 1.4 oz. That it has a shallow
> bowl & stingy tines, and some useless metric wrench
> cutouts but it has a flat head screwdriver and a cap
> lifter.
> 
> The compactness interests me but do you get your hand all
> gooey trying to eat with it?
> 
> Anyway any real world use reports would be of interest.
> 
> hikermiker
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From jroth2353 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 09:01:21 2017
From: jroth2353 at gmail.com (Joe Roth)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 10:01:21 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] I phone battery recharger
Message-ID: <0F144CBA-9428-4393-A241-69A1F22EE3A1@gmail.com>

What's the best light weight battery pack to recharge the I phone 6s plus on the PCT?

Sent from my iPhone

From gfarris44 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 11:16:29 2017
From: gfarris44 at gmail.com (Greg Farris)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 09:16:29 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] iPhone charging
Message-ID: <005201d274d3$46b16cc0$d4144640$@gmail.com>

First time doing a post.  I have PowerFilm LightSaver.  It is a solar panel
with a battery.  Has a USB plug on one end, and a cord plug on the other for
like an iPhone.  I can unroll the panel during daytime to charge the
battery, and charge whatever is connected. At night if I need power, pull
from the battery.  Weight is 4.8 oz.

Greg


From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sun Jan 22 22:53:53 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 20:53:53 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] iPhone charging
In-Reply-To: <005201d274d3$46b16cc0$d4144640$@gmail.com>
References: <005201d274d3$46b16cc0$d4144640$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz==zvemrFh=FkGQL=QqAyTh-UbSsFJL3tkS54HN1iEBAw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Greg Farris <gfarris44 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I can unroll the panel during daytime to charge the
> battery, and charge whatever is connected.

Not to be a killjoy, but this form of battery charging will require
you to stay in one place for long periods of time with your solar
panels unrolled during mid day hiking hours. If you are thru hiking
you are most likely going to be walking during those hours.

It is my understanding that solar panels strapped to packs have
performed in a less than satisfactory fashion.

From edjarrett at msn.com  Sun Jan 22 23:13:39 2017
From: edjarrett at msn.com (Ed Jarrett)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 05:13:39 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] iPhone charging
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz==zvemrFh=FkGQL=QqAyTh-UbSsFJL3tkS54HN1iEBAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005201d274d3$46b16cc0$d4144640$@gmail.com>,
 <CALV1Nz==zvemrFh=FkGQL=QqAyTh-UbSsFJL3tkS54HN1iEBAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR19MB0456B8C7130F41CDB243DD72AA720@BY2PR19MB0456.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

It really depends on your solar panel and how you use it. I carried a sunTatics atop my pack through the Sierra this past year and it kept a battery charged enough to charge my phone, inReach and headlamp at night. But you cannot charge a cell phone from the panel while on the go.


Ed Jarrett (Eeyore)
Web site: http://aclayjar.net
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdJarrett53
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ed.jarrett.71


________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 8:53 PM
To: PCT
Subject: Re: [pct-l] iPhone charging

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Greg Farris <gfarris44 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I can unroll the panel during daytime to charge the
> battery, and charge whatever is connected.

Not to be a killjoy, but this form of battery charging will require
you to stay in one place for long periods of time with your solar
panels unrolled during mid day hiking hours. If you are thru hiking
you are most likely going to be walking during those hours.

It is my understanding that solar panels strapped to packs have
performed in a less than satisfactory fashion.
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From luckymanhikes at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 01:01:40 2017
From: luckymanhikes at gmail.com (luckymanhikes)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 00:01:40 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] I phone battery recharger
Message-ID: <p7caqocdwx225hngdi4mgrqg.1485154850951@email.android.com>

I've had good results from the Anker Astro 6700mAh


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com> Date: 1/22/17  8:01 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: Pct-L at backcountry.net Subject: [pct-l] I phone battery recharger 
What's the best light weight battery pack to recharge the I phone 6s plus on the PCT?

Sent from my iPhone
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From sam at samwhited.com  Mon Jan 23 09:06:25 2017
From: sam at samwhited.com (Sam Whited)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 09:06:25 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] iPhone charging
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz==zvemrFh=FkGQL=QqAyTh-UbSsFJL3tkS54HN1iEBAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005201d274d3$46b16cc0$d4144640$@gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nz==zvemrFh=FkGQL=QqAyTh-UbSsFJL3tkS54HN1iEBAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHbk4RLTK+B6+_8L5_0FJf9UQyzXEdCd=JgF96YjdUJemTmqBw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 10:53 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
> It is my understanding that solar panels strapped to packs have
> performed in a less than satisfactory fashion.

When I thruhiked the AT in 2014 I kept a medium sized (10,000 mAh
maybe, I forget) charger strapped to the top of my bag. Even in the
partial sunlight under the canopy I generally had a full charge at the
end of the day. I also did not have one of the pointlessly powerhungry
phones that are all the rage these days though, so your mileage may
varry.

?Sam

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Mon Jan 23 10:47:40 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 16:47:40 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] iPhone charging
In-Reply-To: <CAHbk4RLTK+B6+_8L5_0FJf9UQyzXEdCd=JgF96YjdUJemTmqBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005201d274d3$46b16cc0$d4144640$@gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nz==zvemrFh=FkGQL=QqAyTh-UbSsFJL3tkS54HN1iEBAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHbk4RLTK+B6+_8L5_0FJf9UQyzXEdCd=JgF96YjdUJemTmqBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd4d29c7ff714f5da7a90d38819277cd@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I use a SunTactics 6000mAh USB Battery. It is about 3.5 ounces and gives me 3 or more charges to my I-phone 6s. Using normal power-saving techniques my phone is good for 7-10 days of regular use, which include photos, 1-2 hours of music, and a bit of daily navigation.

I looked into the solar chargers as some have reported good success with them. Ultimately I decided I did not want to futz with a solar charger on a daily basis so have not gone down that pathway. Since navigation can be such a high power drain if used frequently, I think that if I went into the Sierra in a big snow year I would be inclined to bring a second battery as a backup versus a solar charger. 

Herb

From weathercarrot at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 23 12:16:28 2017
From: weathercarrot at hotmail.com (Weathercarrot -)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 18:16:28 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Jan 23rd CA Snowpack Chart
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB107373E4049A9EEF6A9E9AC3AE720@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Jan 23rd CA snow pack chart is now available.  The southern Sierra from roughly Whitney to Yosemite is up to 238% of normal for today's date.  This is now above the April 1st average, and is also ahead of the 1983 level for today's date.   The numbers are a bit less north of Yosemite to the Trinities.


Relatively long dry spell coming, which will pull us back below 1983, but models showing potential for another wet period in a few weeks.


http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action

From karen.kellerford at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 13:41:45 2017
From: karen.kellerford at gmail.com (Karen Keller)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 14:41:45 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Snow-free routes
Message-ID: <DBB4112C-98E3-40E6-9420-B67EDEBB3F56@gmail.com>

I am looking for ideas and advise, especially from those of you more familiar with Northern California, Oregon and Washington. As happy as I am that The Sierra is finally getting this much needed respite from the persistent drought, it creates some challenges for this particular hiker. Snow, and the avoidance thereof, is the primary reason I am a section hiker. I can hike for a couple of months continuously, I can pick the time to start. I'd like to cover 500-800 miles without jumping around too much. So far, I?ve hiked everything south of Kearsarge Pass. Initially, I hoped to start there in mid July and hike north as far as Castella or Dunsmuir at least, if not further, by about mid October. If I hiked the same section southbound instead, during the same time frame, I'd not only start a very long, dry section (Hat Creek etc) in the worst heat of summer, I'd end up in the Southern Sierra in mid October, which is a bit late for that altitude. I am a very slow hiker (the other reason I'm not a Thru). Any suggestions? If I waited until Mid August to start would it make much difference? (PS. Ned is amazing. I love him! I drove to Tahoe and took a snow course from him in 2011, after I had a harrowing experience with snow on Fuller Ridge.  I highly recommend it. I learned so much! However, my particular limitations are not going away. I have already given away my ice Ax and crampons.) 

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Mon Jan 23 14:08:12 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 20:08:12 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] I-Phone Charging
Message-ID: <c642b466be4b4a4d83fbf4ead1aae0b0@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

The other thing to remember about batteries is that their performance is adversely affected by cold. When I expect temperatures in the 40s or lower, I sleep with my phone and battery in my sleeping bag.

Herb

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 14:41:16 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 12:41:16 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Snow-free routes
In-Reply-To: <DBB4112C-98E3-40E6-9420-B67EDEBB3F56@gmail.com>
References: <DBB4112C-98E3-40E6-9420-B67EDEBB3F56@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9ac19cab-b48e-c4fe-e97f-4a911e087d8a@gmail.com>

You could start at Hat Creek, or in Lassen, and hike south to Mt. 
Whitney and out at Whitney Portal.  That's about 750 miles.  When asked 
where you're hiking this year, answering, "Lassen to Whitney" has a nice 
ring to it.  The first couple weeks in October are beautiful in the 
southern Sierra - and you'll likely have the JMT part to yourself.  And 
if weather does come through, there are multiple bail points.

I've been snowed in in mid-september in the Emigrant Wilderness, - it's 
kind of the luck of the draw, as you probably know.

Jeff, Laramie, Wy


On 1/23/2017 11:41 AM, Karen Keller wrote:
> I am looking for ideas and advise, especially from those of you more familiar with Northern California, Oregon and Washington. As happy as I am that The Sierra is finally getting this much needed respite from the persistent drought, it creates some challenges for this particular hiker. Snow, and the avoidance thereof, is the primary reason I am a section hiker. I can hike for a couple of months continuously, I can pick the time to start. I'd like to cover 500-800 miles without jumping around too much. So far, I?ve hiked everything south of Kearsarge Pass. Initially, I hoped to start there in mid July and hike north as far as Castella or Dunsmuir at least, if not further, by about mid October. If I hiked the same section southbound instead, during the same time frame, I'd not only start a very long, dry section (Hat Creek etc) in the worst heat of summer, I'd end up in the Southern Sierra in mid October, which is a bit late for that altitude. I am a very slow hiker (the other reason I'm not a Thru). Any suggestions? If I waited until Mid August to start would it make much difference? (PS. Ned is amazing. I love him! I drove to Tahoe and took a snow course from him in 2011, after I had a harrowing experience with snow on Fuller Ridge.  I highly recommend it. I learned so much! However, my particular limitations are not going away. I have already given away my ice Ax and crampons.)
> _______________________________________________
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> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.



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From comrade2u at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 23 14:19:28 2017
From: comrade2u at yahoo.com (Michael Volkov)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 12:19:28 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Fuel Canisters
Message-ID: <779eb2b8-40a0-4b8d-abb1-bf02f0436677@typeapp.com>

?What's the availability of fuel Canisters for purchase along the trail? Rare? Good enough to skip shipping? Abundant?
Thanks!!

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 15:42:36 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 21:42:36 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fuel Canisters
In-Reply-To: <779eb2b8-40a0-4b8d-abb1-bf02f0436677@typeapp.com>
References: <779eb2b8-40a0-4b8d-abb1-bf02f0436677@typeapp.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_asF5qLZ4m4SbXSOQ3jGR0nspDWDBYyXWZNM9dZXYhTCWQ@mail.gmail.com>

I used this link last year and found it to be accurate

http://asthecrowflies.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/PCT-Fuel-Town-List-2016.pdf



On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 13:38 Michael Volkov <comrade2u at yahoo.com> wrote:

> ?What's the availability of fuel Canisters for purchase along the trail?
> Rare? Good enough to skip shipping? Abundant?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Pct-L mailing list
>
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> List Archives:
>
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From baidarker at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 15:43:55 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 13:43:55 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Snow-free routes
In-Reply-To: <9ac19cab-b48e-c4fe-e97f-4a911e087d8a@gmail.com>
References: <DBB4112C-98E3-40E6-9420-B67EDEBB3F56@gmail.com>
 <9ac19cab-b48e-c4fe-e97f-4a911e087d8a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj13fqVJ=1OeAcDw=-Vcbtakc25sGaaZ6s0gXQQE5dCU84Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Special K, I second the Lassen to Whitney, (or Kearsarge as that's your
connection) and the nice thing about this is you could start a bit earlier,
to beat some of the heat, as the Lassen area, and Sierra north of Sonora
Pass is so much lower in elevation than the "High Sierra."  If you watch
the weather, you might be able to even get started in early July if we get
a melt out.  But as you have the flexibility to jump when it gets good,
just bide your time and take off when the conditions look best.  If you
start earlier, you'll also probably finish before the first snows of Oct.
Shoot for finishing by late Sept and watch the weather.  So great to see
you're still knocking out big sections!

Shroomer

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com> wrote:

> You could start at Hat Creek, or in Lassen, and hike south to Mt. Whitney
> and out at Whitney Portal.  That's about 750 miles.  When asked where
> you're hiking this year, answering, "Lassen to Whitney" has a nice ring to
> it.  The first couple weeks in October are beautiful in the southern Sierra
> - and you'll likely have the JMT part to yourself.  And if weather does
> come through, there are multiple bail points.
>
> I've been snowed in in mid-september in the Emigrant Wilderness, - it's
> kind of the luck of the draw, as you probably know.
>
> Jeff, Laramie, Wy
>
>
>
> On 1/23/2017 11:41 AM, Karen Keller wrote:
>
>> I am looking for ideas and advise, especially from those of you more
>> familiar with Northern California, Oregon and Washington. As happy as I am
>> that The Sierra is finally getting this much needed respite from the
>> persistent drought, it creates some challenges for this particular hiker.
>> Snow, and the avoidance thereof, is the primary reason I am a section
>> hiker. I can hike for a couple of months continuously, I can pick the time
>> to start. I'd like to cover 500-800 miles without jumping around too much.
>> So far, I?ve hiked everything south of Kearsarge Pass. Initially, I hoped
>> to start there in mid July and hike north as far as Castella or Dunsmuir at
>> least, if not further, by about mid October. If I hiked the same section
>> southbound instead, during the same time frame, I'd not only start a very
>> long, dry section (Hat Creek etc) in the worst heat of summer, I'd end up
>> in the Southern Sierra in mid October, which is a bit late for that
>> altitude. I am a very slow hiker (the other reason I'm not a Thru). Any
>> suggestions? If I waited until Mid August to start would it make much
>> difference? (PS. Ned is amazing. I love him! I drove to Tahoe and took a
>> snow course from him in 2011, after I had a harrowing experience with snow
>> on Fuller Ridge.  I highly recommend it. I learned so much! However, my
>> particular limitations are not going away. I have already given away my ice
>> Ax and crampons.)
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>
>
>
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 17:30:39 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 17:30:39 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Recording/blogging gear
Message-ID: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>

Hey everybody. I am planning on blogging and vlogging while on trail. I would appreciate recommendations from those who have done the same on what devices worked well. I will have an anker 13K mah and an iPhone. 
Thank you,
Sabrina 

Sent from my iPhone

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 17:39:39 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 15:39:39 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Recording/blogging gear
In-Reply-To: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>
References: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_atHwHp-bxEGvBPdCyo+P78ct6jXs7PMnNxKa-y_CTordw@mail.gmail.com>

An iPhone should be fine. I saw one person carrying a bluetooth keyboard
but I didn't find the need myself. You are tired at night so keeping up a
blog is a neat thing to do but also work. There were times I just wanted to
relax instead of trying to think of something creative to write. I'm riding
my bike across country this coming summer and I'm handing over the blogging
to my girlfriend. It will be nice for me to not have to write.

Have you decided where you will blog? I used wordpress
<https://wordpress.com/com-vs-org/>and that is a great platform. It is
great if you want to send your friends a link but not many people will
happen upon your blog. Alternately, you can go to a site like Postholer.com
<http://www.postholer.com/journal/>. If you journal there then you may find
100s of people following you. It can be fun to feel like you are sharing
your adventure.

     -Rover (Scott)

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hey everybody. I am planning on blogging and vlogging while on trail. I
> would appreciate recommendations from those who have done the same on what
> devices worked well. I will have an anker 13K mah and an iPhone.
> Thank you,
> Sabrina
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From kellyhikes2 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 17:42:27 2017
From: kellyhikes2 at gmail.com (Kelly Baraga)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 15:42:27 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Recording/blogging gear
In-Reply-To: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>
References: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B82CCAFF-1DCB-4C4A-B7A2-D3A61A05D8D5@gmail.com>

Sabrina

I wasn?t too crazy about blogging and all that, but my family and friends really wanted to hear about my travels so I caved. I wasn?t all too savvy on blogging but was turned onto a free site wordpress.com <http://wordpress.com/> which was super easy to use with my iPhone 5 . i loved the fact that 90% of my picture taking was from my phone and it was super easy to upload my photos from my phone onto the blog. I did everything from my phone, no laptop or tablet.  I did set up my account before hitting the trail and practiced a few entries before my kickoff date, April 10, 2015. This way I was familiar before I ventured out and was quite happy with the the ability to get my story out. A friend of mine prompted me to blog, if not for me, for my grandkids. Yes, I am probably a bit older than you, or not, but looking back on it, I am so glad I did. I love to read my blog from time to time and it truly transports me back to the trail. There are many templates out there, I just found this one to be the easiest for a first-timer like myself. Happy Trails.

GG 
kellyhikesforgod.wordpress.com <http://kellyhikesforgod.wordpress.com/> (if you want to check it out)


> On Jan 23, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey everybody. I am planning on blogging and vlogging while on trail. I would appreciate recommendations from those who have done the same on what devices worked well. I will have an anker 13K mah and an iPhone. 
> Thank you,
> Sabrina 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From sam at samwhited.com  Mon Jan 23 17:50:30 2017
From: sam at samwhited.com (Sam Whited)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 17:50:30 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Recording/blogging gear
In-Reply-To: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>
References: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHbk4RLxJxpQQ45sD=SQJdndPXdoZ0vum01-j+pXUPocuQco6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Sabrina Harrison
<troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everybody. I am planning on blogging and vlogging while on trail. I would appreciate recommendations from those who have done the same on what devices worked well. I will have an anker 13K mah and an iPhone.

I'm a big fan of a mole skin notebook and typing things up when I get
into a town that has a library or hostel; much less strain on your
battery life, and I can't stand typing on a phone (or any of the
portable keyboards I've ever tried). I also find that I just
concentrate better when I do a draft on paper first and then type it
up, so it's carried over to every day life even when I have a computer
readily available.

For recording audio (I didn't do any video), my phone and a small
lapel mic (I think I got the cheapest Sony I could find on Amazon)
worked very well.

?Sam

From jbruins at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 18:04:57 2017
From: jbruins at gmail.com (Jay Bruins)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 16:04:57 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Recording/blogging gear
In-Reply-To: <B82CCAFF-1DCB-4C4A-B7A2-D3A61A05D8D5@gmail.com>
References: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>
 <B82CCAFF-1DCB-4C4A-B7A2-D3A61A05D8D5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA204F98-ABF5-40EC-B5B2-47A2C9EF07E8@gmail.com>

My suggestion: do a dry run. Put your device in airplane mode for a weekend. (You are doing a gear shakedown, right?) Write in your blog entry, pick out your photos, and save them. Do the same thing Sunday even if you?re already home. Come Monday morning, try to upload them. If it doesn?t go smoothly, try some new software: you?ll be doing this for 5 months straight.


I tried to use Word Press in 2015. The iOS app lost it?s mind if you tried to prepare an entry offline. Image attachment sometimes worked (and never offline.) The only positive thing I can say: it?s free. (I?m surprised to hear differently. Perhaps my tolerance for bad software design is lower than others.)

Before I gave up the blog, I was in the habit of writing the entry in Notes with manually entered meta data at the top (e.g. location, date, etc) then forcibly copying this all into the app in town. Then there was the lovely task of going through my camera roll to find the right images to upload. This made stops in town much slower.

After spending so much time writing down my thoughts, to have to spend almost as much time wrestling with the software when all I wanted to do was stuff my face with a burger, hit the grocery store, and leave town, it just wasn?t worth it and I stopped blogging.

I hope you?re more successful,
Armstrong

PS Not useful for blogging, but I did have more success with Day One for a personal journal of sorts.
PPS vlogging likely requires way more time (editing) than using Word Press. You may just be more tolerant of pain than I am.

> On Jan 23, 2017, at 3:42 PM, Kelly Baraga <kellyhikes2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Sabrina
> 
> I wasn?t too crazy about blogging and all that, but my family and friends really wanted to hear about my travels so I caved. I wasn?t all too savvy on blogging but was turned onto a free site wordpress.com <http://wordpress.com/> which was super easy to use with my iPhone 5 . i loved the fact that 90% of my picture taking was from my phone and it was super easy to upload my photos from my phone onto the blog. I did everything from my phone, no laptop or tablet.  I did set up my account before hitting the trail and practiced a few entries before my kickoff date, April 10, 2015. This way I was familiar before I ventured out and was quite happy with the the ability to get my story out. A friend of mine prompted me to blog, if not for me, for my grandkids. Yes, I am probably a bit older than you, or not, but looking back on it, I am so glad I did. I love to read my blog from time to time and it truly transports me back to the trail. There are many templates out there, I just found this one to be the easiest for a first-timer like myself. Happy Trails.
> 
> GG 
> kellyhikesforgod.wordpress.com <http://kellyhikesforgod.wordpress.com/> (if you want to check it out)
> 
> 
>> On Jan 23, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey everybody. I am planning on blogging and vlogging while on trail. I would appreciate recommendations from those who have done the same on what devices worked well. I will have an anker 13K mah and an iPhone. 
>> Thank you,
>> Sabrina 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From katyshaw at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 18:39:19 2017
From: katyshaw at gmail.com (Katy Shaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 16:39:19 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Recording/blogging gear
In-Reply-To: <BA204F98-ABF5-40EC-B5B2-47A2C9EF07E8@gmail.com>
References: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>
 <B82CCAFF-1DCB-4C4A-B7A2-D3A61A05D8D5@gmail.com>
 <BA204F98-ABF5-40EC-B5B2-47A2C9EF07E8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP=VGDRK0DJz0MrA0--hfxZ5x=oTsRsO4137Qhvd77QiU+_O6Q@mail.gmail.com>

I use WordPress for my blog.  I prefer to compose my blog directly on my
phone and the WordPress app is pretty good - but the WordPress app does
require an Internet connection.  I found some other apps that enable you to
write your WordPress blog offline and sync to WordPress later on when you
have a connection.

I hiked the Wonderland Trail this last fall and used BlogTouchPro.  It
worked fine  - I was able to write posts offline and sync them to WordPress
when I had a connection later.  But I found that the act of composing a
blog (no matter what app I used) really used up my phone's battery. I
haven't quite figured out the best solution for that yet.

-katy

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Jay Bruins <jbruins at gmail.com> wrote:

> My suggestion: do a dry run. Put your device in airplane mode for a
> weekend. (You are doing a gear shakedown, right?) Write in your blog entry,
> pick out your photos, and save them. Do the same thing Sunday even if
> you?re already home. Come Monday morning, try to upload them. If it doesn?t
> go smoothly, try some new software: you?ll be doing this for 5 months
> straight.
>
>
> I tried to use Word Press in 2015. The iOS app lost it?s mind if you tried
> to prepare an entry offline. Image attachment sometimes worked (and never
> offline.) The only positive thing I can say: it?s free. (I?m surprised to
> hear differently. Perhaps my tolerance for bad software design is lower
> than others.)
>
> Before I gave up the blog, I was in the habit of writing the entry in
> Notes with manually entered meta data at the top (e.g. location, date, etc)
> then forcibly copying this all into the app in town. Then there was the
> lovely task of going through my camera roll to find the right images to
> upload. This made stops in town much slower.
>
> After spending so much time writing down my thoughts, to have to spend
> almost as much time wrestling with the software when all I wanted to do was
> stuff my face with a burger, hit the grocery store, and leave town, it just
> wasn?t worth it and I stopped blogging.
>
> I hope you?re more successful,
> Armstrong
>
> PS Not useful for blogging, but I did have more success with Day One for a
> personal journal of sorts.
> PPS vlogging likely requires way more time (editing) than using Word
> Press. You may just be more tolerant of pain than I am.
>
> > On Jan 23, 2017, at 3:42 PM, Kelly Baraga <kellyhikes2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Sabrina
> >
> > I wasn?t too crazy about blogging and all that, but my family and
> friends really wanted to hear about my travels so I caved. I wasn?t all too
> savvy on blogging but was turned onto a free site wordpress.com <
> http://wordpress.com/> which was super easy to use with my iPhone 5 . i
> loved the fact that 90% of my picture taking was from my phone and it was
> super easy to upload my photos from my phone onto the blog. I did
> everything from my phone, no laptop or tablet.  I did set up my account
> before hitting the trail and practiced a few entries before my kickoff
> date, April 10, 2015. This way I was familiar before I ventured out and was
> quite happy with the the ability to get my story out. A friend of mine
> prompted me to blog, if not for me, for my grandkids. Yes, I am probably a
> bit older than you, or not, but looking back on it, I am so glad I did. I
> love to read my blog from time to time and it truly transports me back to
> the trail. There are many templates out there, I just found this one to be
> the easiest for a first-timer like myself. Happy Trails.
> >
> > GG
> > kellyhikesforgod.wordpress.com <http://kellyhikesforgod.wordpress.com/>
> (if you want to check it out)
> >
> >
> >> On Jan 23, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey everybody. I am planning on blogging and vlogging while on trail. I
> would appreciate recommendations from those who have done the same on what
> devices worked well. I will have an anker 13K mah and an iPhone.
> >> Thank you,
> >> Sabrina
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pct-L mailing list
> >> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> >> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >>
> >> List Archives:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> >> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> >> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From jdrewsmith at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 19:12:33 2017
From: jdrewsmith at gmail.com (Drew Smith)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 01:12:33 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Recording/blogging gear
In-Reply-To: <CAP=VGDRK0DJz0MrA0--hfxZ5x=oTsRsO4137Qhvd77QiU+_O6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>
 <B82CCAFF-1DCB-4C4A-B7A2-D3A61A05D8D5@gmail.com>
 <BA204F98-ABF5-40EC-B5B2-47A2C9EF07E8@gmail.com>
 <CAP=VGDRK0DJz0MrA0--hfxZ5x=oTsRsO4137Qhvd77QiU+_O6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFiWH3h4S55aSg77xO2PiJ9i+ff1-MCKLGmteUygFrn7+xX3HA@mail.gmail.com>

I've used both PostHoler and TrailJournals.com as blogging platforms and
can't say I am all that happy with either one.  Wordpress sounds like a
better interface, but much harder to find an audience.
Like Jay, I liked DayOne for the actual writing - it allows you to include
GPS coordinates and pictures and has a MUCH nicer interface than PH or TJ.
If you want to use an actual camera for pics and videos and it does not
have built-in WiFi, I suggest getting an EyeFi memory card.  It allows you
to transfer pics to your phone so that you can incorporate them into
whatever platform you are writing on. Most cameras are EyeFi compatible,
they have a list on their website. EyeFi transfers do suck up a fair amount
of power, so plan accordingly with your backup battery.

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 5:39 PM Katy Shaw <katyshaw at gmail.com> wrote:

> I use WordPress for my blog.  I prefer to compose my blog directly on my
> phone and the WordPress app is pretty good - but the WordPress app does
> require an Internet connection.  I found some other apps that enable you to
> write your WordPress blog offline and sync to WordPress later on when you
> have a connection.
>
> I hiked the Wonderland Trail this last fall and used BlogTouchPro.  It
> worked fine  - I was able to write posts offline and sync them to WordPress
> when I had a connection later.  But I found that the act of composing a
> blog (no matter what app I used) really used up my phone's battery. I
> haven't quite figured out the best solution for that yet.
>
> -katy
>
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Jay Bruins <jbruins at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My suggestion: do a dry run. Put your device in airplane mode for a
> > weekend. (You are doing a gear shakedown, right?) Write in your blog
> entry,
> > pick out your photos, and save them. Do the same thing Sunday even if
> > you?re already home. Come Monday morning, try to upload them. If it
> doesn?t
> > go smoothly, try some new software: you?ll be doing this for 5 months
> > straight.
> >
> >
> > I tried to use Word Press in 2015. The iOS app lost it?s mind if you
> tried
> > to prepare an entry offline. Image attachment sometimes worked (and never
> > offline.) The only positive thing I can say: it?s free. (I?m surprised to
> > hear differently. Perhaps my tolerance for bad software design is lower
> > than others.)
> >
> > Before I gave up the blog, I was in the habit of writing the entry in
> > Notes with manually entered meta data at the top (e.g. location, date,
> etc)
> > then forcibly copying this all into the app in town. Then there was the
> > lovely task of going through my camera roll to find the right images to
> > upload. This made stops in town much slower.
> >
> > After spending so much time writing down my thoughts, to have to spend
> > almost as much time wrestling with the software when all I wanted to do
> was
> > stuff my face with a burger, hit the grocery store, and leave town, it
> just
> > wasn?t worth it and I stopped blogging.
> >
> > I hope you?re more successful,
> > Armstrong
> >
> > PS Not useful for blogging, but I did have more success with Day One for
> a
> > personal journal of sorts.
> > PPS vlogging likely requires way more time (editing) than using Word
> > Press. You may just be more tolerant of pain than I am.
> >
> > > On Jan 23, 2017, at 3:42 PM, Kelly Baraga <kellyhikes2 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sabrina
> > >
> > > I wasn?t too crazy about blogging and all that, but my family and
> > friends really wanted to hear about my travels so I caved. I wasn?t all
> too
> > savvy on blogging but was turned onto a free site wordpress.com <
> > http://wordpress.com/> which was super easy to use with my iPhone 5 . i
> > loved the fact that 90% of my picture taking was from my phone and it was
> > super easy to upload my photos from my phone onto the blog. I did
> > everything from my phone, no laptop or tablet.  I did set up my account
> > before hitting the trail and practiced a few entries before my kickoff
> > date, April 10, 2015. This way I was familiar before I ventured out and
> was
> > quite happy with the the ability to get my story out. A friend of mine
> > prompted me to blog, if not for me, for my grandkids. Yes, I am probably
> a
> > bit older than you, or not, but looking back on it, I am so glad I did. I
> > love to read my blog from time to time and it truly transports me back to
> > the trail. There are many templates out there, I just found this one to
> be
> > the easiest for a first-timer like myself. Happy Trails.
> > >
> > > GG
> > > kellyhikesforgod.wordpress.com <http://kellyhikesforgod.wordpress.com/
> >
> > (if you want to check it out)
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Jan 23, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Sabrina Harrison <
> troopharrison at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hey everybody. I am planning on blogging and vlogging while on trail.
> I
> > would appreciate recommendations from those who have done the same on
> what
> > devices worked well. I will have an anker 13K mah and an iPhone.
> > >> Thank you,
> > >> Sabrina
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Pct-L mailing list
> > >> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > >> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >>
> > >> List Archives:
> > >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > >> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > >> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >
> > > List Archives:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From bobofwa at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 23 18:40:35 2017
From: bobofwa at hotmail.com (Bob Zimmerman)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 00:40:35 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Recording/blogging gear
In-Reply-To: <BA204F98-ABF5-40EC-B5B2-47A2C9EF07E8@gmail.com>
References: <3E8C9971-2C68-4F54-8A4A-3F9EAD046E01@gmail.com>
 <B82CCAFF-1DCB-4C4A-B7A2-D3A61A05D8D5@gmail.com>,
 <BA204F98-ABF5-40EC-B5B2-47A2C9EF07E8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR08MB1975F016D0C27C52BDA3081FBF750@CY1PR08MB1975.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>

I blogged during my 2015 PCT through-hike using my iPhone 5c. I carried a battery backup which allowed me to have a fully-charged phone for up to 8 days.



My blog was hosted on Blogger. I started out using the app, BlogPress, but found that it crashed too often, and almost lost five days worth of blogs when it refused to open the files. BlogTouch Pro is easy to use and has never crashed on me. I would write my blog in my Notes application, and then copy it to the BlogTouch Pro app where I would add my pictures. I saved the blog as a "local" file. The local file is resident on my phone.



When I had adequate phone service, I would upload the blog. One lesson I learned is that when I create a new blog and have no phone service, I must select the "Offline" function, start the new blog, and then select "options" and check the post status of "Offline". If I left the option set as "Public", when I was finished writing the blog I would often lose my blog because the phone couldn't connect to service. Fortunately, because I always wrote my blog in my "Notes" app, I could just re-paste the information.



Another lesson I learned was that I needed a fairly strong phone signal to successfully upload a blog with several pictures. On several occasions, the blog would fail to upload if I had a weak phone signal. Another nice feature is that the app let me read comments on older blogs, and easily let me update existing blogs when I had phone service.



I highly suggest to follow Jay?s suggestion and do a dry run. Take pictures and create your blog while the phone is in airplane mode. It will familiarize you with the software and ensure that you can hit the ground running after you start your hike.



I made a review of my phone and several useful software programs on my blog here:

http://bobofwashington.blogspot.com/2015/09/pct-thru-hike-gear-review-smartphone.html







From: Jay Bruins<mailto:jbruins at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 4:05 PM
To: pct l<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recording/blogging gear



My suggestion: do a dry run. Put your device in airplane mode for a weekend. (You are doing a gear shakedown, right?) Write in your blog entry, pick out your photos, and save them. Do the same thing Sunday even if you?re already home. Come Monday morning, try to upload them. If it doesn?t go smoothly, try some new software: you?ll be doing this for 5 months straight.


I tried to use Word Press in 2015. The iOS app lost it?s mind if you tried to prepare an entry offline. Image attachment sometimes worked (and never offline.) The only positive thing I can say: it?s free. (I?m surprised to hear differently. Perhaps my tolerance for bad software design is lower than others.)

Before I gave up the blog, I was in the habit of writing the entry in Notes with manually entered meta data at the top (e.g. location, date, etc) then forcibly copying this all into the app in town. Then there was the lovely task of going through my camera roll to find the right images to upload. This made stops in town much slower.

After spending so much time writing down my thoughts, to have to spend almost as much time wrestling with the software when all I wanted to do was stuff my face with a burger, hit the grocery store, and leave town, it just wasn?t worth it and I stopped blogging.

I hope you?re more successful,
Armstrong

PS Not useful for blogging, but I did have more success with Day One for a personal journal of sorts.
PPS vlogging likely requires way more time (editing) than using Word Press. You may just be more tolerant of pain than I am.

> On Jan 23, 2017, at 3:42 PM, Kelly Baraga <kellyhikes2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sabrina
>
> I wasn?t too crazy about blogging and all that, but my family and friends really wanted to hear about my travels so I caved. I wasn?t all too savvy on blogging but was turned onto a free site wordpress.com <http://wordpress.com/> which was super easy to use with my iPhone 5 . i loved the fact that 90% of my picture taking was from my phone and it was super easy to upload my photos from my phone onto the blog. I did everything from my phone, no laptop or tablet.  I did set up my account before hitting the trail and practiced a few entries before my kickoff date, April 10, 2015. This way I was familiar before I ventured out and was quite happy with the the ability to get my story out. A friend of mine prompted me to blog, if not for me, for my grandkids. Yes, I am probably a bit older than you, or not, but looking back on it, I am so glad I did. I love to read my blog from time to time and it truly transports me back to the trail. There are many templates out there, I just found this one to be the easiest for a first-timer like myself. Happy Trails.
>
> GG
> kellyhikesforgod.wordpress.com <http://kellyhikesforgod.wordpress.com/> (if you want to check it out)
>
>
>> On Jan 23, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey everybody. I am planning on blogging and vlogging while on trail. I would appreciate recommendations from those who have done the same on what devices worked well. I will have an anker 13K mah and an iPhone.
>> Thank you,
>> Sabrina
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From teresadattolo at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 20:37:22 2017
From: teresadattolo at gmail.com (Teresa D)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 18:37:22 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Snow-free routes
In-Reply-To: <DBB4112C-98E3-40E6-9420-B67EDEBB3F56@gmail.com>
References: <DBB4112C-98E3-40E6-9420-B67EDEBB3F56@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGcXdJb4-NAHigvsdiiMCi0=-w5RgA-ciZbpw50KRWyPHEKLEg@mail.gmail.com>

Castella/Dunsmuir area of the PCT had significant snow (not super deep, but
as in enough to cause annoyance, route-finding challenges, post-holing etc)
this past October. You could end up snowed out on either end in October, no
matter the direction you choose.

>From Burney to Castella you get up to ~6000ft, but still are generally
under 5000ft. It's higher between Castella/Dunsmuir and Etna (mostly
6000-7500 ft) and will generally have sticking snow earlier in the fall. I
think, in terms of bailout points, if there is a trip-ending snow event,
you're better off in the Castella area than Kearsarge area. There are more
road crossings (for hitching or easier following if the trail is obscured),
and likely hunters out in October for additional potential assistance.

For example, you're never more than 30miles from a significant road
crossing between Castella and Etna:
I5 (Castella/Dunsmuir area) @1499
Hwy3 @ 1558
Hwy93 @ 1578
Etna Summit @ 1597

Personally I would disagree with the Lassen to Whitney southbound route the
others have suggested for a July-Oct trip. You would be in the hotter half
in the hotter months, and the cooler half in the colder months. I'd go
northbound for that stretch, from Kearsarge or whatever, just waiting till
there is enough melt-out for the Sierra passes for your comfort level.
Mid-July start seems like a reasonable prediction to me. You'd certainly
have more company in the high Sierra section, but I think it would be worth
it to avoid hot NorCal in July/August.

If you wanted to start early to mid-August on the other hand, and don't
care about the continuity of your section hike, I'd suggest hiking
Washington southbound. August is your best-bet for a snow-free month in the
northern Cascades! You'll quite probably get snowed out earlier than if you
stick to California though, so it would be a shorter overall trip this year
for you.


On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Karen Keller <karen.kellerford at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I am looking for ideas and advise, especially from those of you more
> familiar with Northern California, Oregon and Washington. As happy as I am
> that The Sierra is finally getting this much needed respite from the
> persistent drought, it creates some challenges for this particular hiker.
> Snow, and the avoidance thereof, is the primary reason I am a section
> hiker. I can hike for a couple of months continuously, I can pick the time
> to start. I'd like to cover 500-800 miles without jumping around too much.
> So far, I?ve hiked everything south of Kearsarge Pass. Initially, I hoped
> to start there in mid July and hike north as far as Castella or Dunsmuir at
> least, if not further, by about mid October. If I hiked the same section
> southbound instead, during the same time frame, I'd not only start a very
> long, dry section (Hat Creek etc) in the worst heat of summer, I'd end up
> in the Southern Sierra in mid October, which is a bit late for that
> altitude. I am a very slow hiker (the other reason I'm not a Thru). Any
> suggestions? If I waited until Mid August to start would it make much
> difference? (PS. Ned is amazing. I love him! I drove to Tahoe and took a
> snow course from him in 2011, after I had a harrowing experience with snow
> on Fuller Ridge.  I highly recommend it. I learned so much! However, my
> particular limitations are not going away. I have already given away my ice
> Ax and crampons.)
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From rickrparker at icloud.com  Mon Jan 23 21:02:51 2017
From: rickrparker at icloud.com (Rick Parker)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 21:02:51 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Iiphone battery recharger
Message-ID: <D276B6B4-39F1-4C05-A5CA-13577BE6DF2F@icloud.com>

RavPower . com has a couple of interesting options and good data to formulate a strategy.  Figure out how may mAh (milliamp hours) your phone battery needs to go from dead to full.  For example an iPhone 6 has a 1810 mAh the iPhone 6plus has 2915 mAh.  So it stands to reason if you have a 6400 mAh external battery that?s a bit more than 3 charges.  See how many days you can go today just on the airplane mode with the occasional calls.  Be mindful that your GPS features on your iPhone work while on airplane mode.  So that means you can drive on HalfMile app and Guthook app for several days.  Power management is important.  The display is a substantial amount of drain, of course if you are in a low or no signal area your battery drains as your phone keeps searching for a signal - another big drain.

IMHO as important as mAh external batteries is the actual AC charger you?ll spend a long time plugged into an AC outlet with a 5 watt charger trying to charge your device(s).  Do some research on how long it take to charge multiple device with say a 17 or 30 watt charger.  Your devices will likely throttle how fast they can/will take a charge, but think of having a a multiport charger is a good thing to minimize charge time for your iphone, battery, camera and headlamp at the same time may get you away from the AC outlets and back on the trail faster.  Good analysis with save you money in the long run.  i.e.  If you are hanging around the trail restaurants and bars (trail vortices), you?re going to carry the extra weight by drinking & eating more while you wait for your devices to charge.

Check out the specs on which phones charge fast and power your iPhone. ravpower dot com.  My equipment is below.
Battery:  
RAVPower 10050mAh Waterproof Dustproof and Shockproof Power Bank Built-in Flashlight Black

Charger:  RAVPower 30W 3-Port USB Wall Charger

HYOH and DYOA.

(DYOA - Do Your Own Analysis - I think I just made that up)

Rick

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 21:11:15 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 21:11:15 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Iiphone battery recharger
In-Reply-To: <D276B6B4-39F1-4C05-A5CA-13577BE6DF2F@icloud.com>
References: <D276B6B4-39F1-4C05-A5CA-13577BE6DF2F@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <D6346BEB-E9A7-4F3B-A362-638574F98511@gmail.com>

Hey everyone, I just wanted to thank you so much for your thoughtful and thorough replies. It really is awesome when people share their experience to make someone else's trip that much better.
I haven't had time to comb through all your answers but I'm looking forward to doing that tomorrow!
Cheers
Sabrina 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 23, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> RavPower . com has a couple of interesting options and good data to formulate a strategy.  Figure out how may mAh (milliamp hours) your phone battery needs to go from dead to full.  For example an iPhone 6 has a 1810 mAh the iPhone 6plus has 2915 mAh.  So it stands to reason if you have a 6400 mAh external battery that?s a bit more than 3 charges.  See how many days you can go today just on the airplane mode with the occasional calls.  Be mindful that your GPS features on your iPhone work while on airplane mode.  So that means you can drive on HalfMile app and Guthook app for several days.  Power management is important.  The display is a substantial amount of drain, of course if you are in a low or no signal area your battery drains as your phone keeps searching for a signal - another big drain.
> 
> IMHO as important as mAh external batteries is the actual AC charger you?ll spend a long time plugged into an AC outlet with a 5 watt charger trying to charge your device(s).  Do some research on how long it take to charge multiple device with say a 17 or 30 watt charger.  Your devices will likely throttle how fast they can/will take a charge, but think of having a a multiport charger is a good thing to minimize charge time for your iphone, battery, camera and headlamp at the same time may get you away from the AC outlets and back on the trail faster.  Good analysis with save you money in the long run.  i.e.  If you are hanging around the trail restaurants and bars (trail vortices), you?re going to carry the extra weight by drinking & eating more while you wait for your devices to charge.
> 
> Check out the specs on which phones charge fast and power your iPhone. ravpower dot com.  My equipment is below.
> Battery:  
> RAVPower 10050mAh Waterproof Dustproof and Shockproof Power Bank Built-in Flashlight Black
> 
> Charger:  RAVPower 30W 3-Port USB Wall Charger
> 
> HYOH and DYOA.
> 
> (DYOA - Do Your Own Analysis - I think I just made that up)
> 
> Rick
> _______________________________________________
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Jan 23 21:44:44 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 19:44:44 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] Snow levels
In-Reply-To: <o660ab+149a2et@YahooGroups.com>
References: <CAOkG4c7dBujDN1vWBsMt7hrixKx5iKQhH=68RLr6sKA45XTRxQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOkG4c5PvgdD1kb_smcRiyosmxxaxi-AwO4ven4Ls-QY25VHZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOkG4c7kxrVgDHa=X84C6X3SpAA1WcqQVE5qs3sJb7_dgpR23w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOkG4c6wWuL4=QE6f0ayWeknDp3qtGu=VbBQVefZTkQQkCDqPw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOkG4c7fGVoU=VKuNDfczNzsY9HY+dzvLPRfrc214HTVZuKa6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOkG4c4uBivciw0PT11FhKc3mF_rnM+7prU555gPZJnsorcdTA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2e9801d272ef$1eb9d0d0$5c2d7270$@mountaineducation.org>	<810BFBDA-9955-4A22-BE67-C5879F951663@yahoo.com>	<o65h44+18j3tpm@YahooGroups.com>	<o65iog+boi3k1@YahooGroups.com>
 <o660ab+149a2et@YahooGroups.com>
Message-ID: <3f5601d275f4$341447a0$9c3cd6e0$@mountaineducation.org>

I think I saw that someone (or a few of you) has said this already, but I?ll chime in as well?

 

No ropes, please! In my SAR swiftwater training we used a tight high line, but it was stressed that even that angle of attatchment could hold you under in a swift and deep current. 

 

The key to safe creek crossings is ?STOP?, Stop, Think, Observe, Plan! No hurries. Dump the pack and scout up and down the creek for a safer crossing spot (we teach our students what to look for and how to do this). Above most, you do not have to cross the creek where the summer trail does! 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

 <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org> ned at mountaineducation.org 

 

From: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of charliepolecat
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 2:33 PM
To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Snow levels

 

  

I have little doubt that an attorney would say that if you did that and the rope broke sending a hiker into the river you would be held responsible. If the park service doesn't think it is worth doing, you shouldn't either.

__._,_.___


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__,_._,___


From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Jan 23 21:49:23 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 19:49:23 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Sierra Snow Pack to date
Message-ID: <3f7101d275f4$da47e320$8ed7a960$@mountaineducation.org>

Just a quick observation and you guys who are more savvy to stats and online
histories can confirm this.

 

Aren't we (Tahoe area) getting pretty close to the 500 inches of snowfall
(not the total on the ground) that was the total for 2011?

 

.and it's only mid-January.

 

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Jan 23 22:05:42 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 20:05:42 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Snow-free routes
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj13fqVJ=1OeAcDw=-Vcbtakc25sGaaZ6s0gXQQE5dCU84Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DBB4112C-98E3-40E6-9420-B67EDEBB3F56@gmail.com>
 <9ac19cab-b48e-c4fe-e97f-4a911e087d8a@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj13fqVJ=1OeAcDw=-Vcbtakc25sGaaZ6s0gXQQE5dCU84Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f9001d275f7$21f32340$65d969c0$@mountaineducation.org>

Hey, Karen!

I'm happy to hear that you're going to be out on the trail this summer! Yes, I remember well the Snow Basics Course you attended in north Tahoe on the TRT back in 2011 and how courageously you deal with your limitations!

Mid-July to mid-October...and avoid steep snow patches after this winter may be challenging pretty much anywhere, I'm beginning to think! The advice from Jeff and Scott is good, but I want to add that NorCal, even though it may be lower in elevation, it is shady down in the trees, so the snow may remain covering the trail well into July. Remember, after big snow winters the main ski areas like Squaw and Mammoth can stay open (certainly on their higher runs) to July 4th, meaning just north of Squaw and Donner there may be lingering snow even at trail elevation. Those were the almost the conditions we experienced on our SBC in that area in 2011. All it takes is a steep patch of snow across the trail to send you into emergency planning mode (How do I get around this thing?).

Look at a trail profile, pick the lowest elevations in NorCal, call ahead to the ranger stations to find out what the current trail conditions are, follow the trail reports from any thrus who've already gone through the area, and pick off the lowest and driest trail segments in a flip-flop manner. Oregon, being a bit flatter with less steep snow, could be safe going for you come the latter part of July, maybe. Washington I would stay out of, because it is steeper and more on and off ridges, until maybe mid-August. Again, call ahead. The Sierra from Donner south I wouldn't suggest you venture into until August 1st after the winter we're getting!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott Williams
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 1:44 PM
To: Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com>
Cc: <Pct-l at backcountry.net> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Snow-free routes

Hey Special K, I second the Lassen to Whitney, (or Kearsarge as that's your
connection) and the nice thing about this is you could start a bit earlier, to beat some of the heat, as the Lassen area, and Sierra north of Sonora Pass is so much lower in elevation than the "High Sierra."  If you watch the weather, you might be able to even get started in early July if we get a melt out.  But as you have the flexibility to jump when it gets good, just bide your time and take off when the conditions look best.  If you start earlier, you'll also probably finish before the first snows of Oct.
Shoot for finishing by late Sept and watch the weather.  So great to see you're still knocking out big sections!

Shroomer

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com> wrote:

> You could start at Hat Creek, or in Lassen, and hike south to Mt. 
> Whitney and out at Whitney Portal.  That's about 750 miles.  When 
> asked where you're hiking this year, answering, "Lassen to Whitney" 
> has a nice ring to it.  The first couple weeks in October are 
> beautiful in the southern Sierra
> - and you'll likely have the JMT part to yourself.  And if weather 
> does come through, there are multiple bail points.
>
> I've been snowed in in mid-september in the Emigrant Wilderness, - 
> it's kind of the luck of the draw, as you probably know.
>
> Jeff, Laramie, Wy
>
>
>
> On 1/23/2017 11:41 AM, Karen Keller wrote:
>
>> I am looking for ideas and advise, especially from those of you more 
>> familiar with Northern California, Oregon and Washington. As happy as 
>> I am that The Sierra is finally getting this much needed respite from 
>> the persistent drought, it creates some challenges for this particular hiker.
>> Snow, and the avoidance thereof, is the primary reason I am a section 
>> hiker. I can hike for a couple of months continuously, I can pick the 
>> time to start. I'd like to cover 500-800 miles without jumping around too much.
>> So far, I?ve hiked everything south of Kearsarge Pass. Initially, I 
>> hoped to start there in mid July and hike north as far as Castella or 
>> Dunsmuir at least, if not further, by about mid October. If I hiked 
>> the same section southbound instead, during the same time frame, I'd 
>> not only start a very long, dry section (Hat Creek etc) in the worst 
>> heat of summer, I'd end up in the Southern Sierra in mid October, 
>> which is a bit late for that altitude. I am a very slow hiker (the 
>> other reason I'm not a Thru). Any suggestions? If I waited until Mid 
>> August to start would it make much difference? (PS. Ned is amazing. I 
>> love him! I drove to Tahoe and took a snow course from him in 2011, 
>> after I had a harrowing experience with snow on Fuller Ridge.  I 
>> highly recommend it. I learned so much! However, my particular 
>> limitations are not going away. I have already given away my ice Ax 
>> and crampons.) _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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>>
>
>
>
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Jan 23 23:09:02 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 21:09:02 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj11Vm57VLd59-upM9qJWJrBgM7=M8qbtdgufbqcw6=zczg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPNr+xo-w0uYORiSKVxAVk051J4g8xD8cTDNuQEbxBQkUcZoaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL6K+5z64c1N2d6tSqG6v72DCwzm187GQS0pk86mDKNT6o-hPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj11Vm57VLd59-upM9qJWJrBgM7=M8qbtdgufbqcw6=zczg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <414c01d275ff$fb504de0$f1f0e9a0$@mountaineducation.org>

Mid-June NoBo starts, maybe to begin in the Sierra and go to M78....

2017...

Clearly we getting nailed so far this winter with lots of snow. Scott had some good advice to throw into the thread, but let's see if I can add anything of value...

It's beginning to look like the High Sierra, as Scott noted, may be still covered in consolidated snow into July or later on the high passes. That isn't a problem if you'd like to see some awesome scenery want to learn add snow-hiking to your list of wilderness abilities, but if you as a section hiker want to avoid the dreaded white stuff, you may be waiting a long while this season!

Also as Scott noted, and I experienced when I did my PCT thru, after a normal to heavy winter you can have off-and-on snow all the way to September in the North Cascades. I went through Oregon in July (July 4th at Crater Lake) on 3-4 feet of snow in the south and 2-3 feet in the north around Mt. Hood. So, plan for that if this winter keep going hot and heavy! Yes, Oregon offers much less steep snow situations, so swinging your feet up the state, even on snow, can be quite easy and fun. Realize that snow lingers on the shady north sides of things, so if you see on your topo map that you're going to have a short but steep, northern aspect drop into a creek canyon ahead, you might want to learn those steep snow skills, if for nothing else but peace of mind and confidence in knowing what to do to maintain your personal safety and make wise decisions.

Clair and Colton and many others looking for dry-trail summer adventures may just have to either wait until August, look for lower elevation trails, or learn your snow skills, then go have a great summer!

Shifali, this summer consolidated snow may remain covering the high sierra trails above 11,000 feet well into August. (I know that we haven't seen this "normal" type of summer in many, many moons, but this used to be the normal way back when). This means that you'll have a few miles of snow-hiking on either sides of every high pass, especially on the north sides, and steep ascents and descents. If the trail is at all exposed and melted out, you will be on and off it frequently, requiring the right footwear, traction aides, and poles (Self-arrest pole required). It is only "dicey" if you don't know how to approach it, walk on it, and get off it before postholing time, which could come very early in the day. Going over the snow-bound passes becomes a logistical thing making you get up at 0400 to be off by 0530 so you get over the pass while the snow is still "hard" (any time after the thaw starts, the snow will turn to soup around mid-morning and make for horrible snow-hiking!), so you get down to dry trail on the other side before you start postholing.

Realize everyone that when we talk about snow into summer, we, also, have to address the creek crossings, which will be high, deep, and fast, depending on when you are there staring at them.

I could go on forever talking about mountain safety, because that is what Mountain Education is all about, but I get long-winded and folks don't want to read a wall of text. So, you all should consider learning how to be safe on snow and in creeks before you go into the high and steep mountains this summer. We do offer exactly this kind of safety training directed to the inexperienced summer hiker. One of our Snow Advanced Courses will give you all you need to know and do to eliminate your fears, navigate wherever you want to go over snow, keep you safe on the ups and down (no slip and falls), boost your confidence, and allow you to enjoy whatever the high country wants to throw at you in peace of mind.

The type of training I'd encourage you all to consider would be for Early-Season JMT or Future PCT thrus:  the "SAC-7" or Early Season Mountain Advanced Course. Here are the links. Have a look and let us know how we can be of service to making sure you have a safe and fun summer in 2017!

http://mountaineducation.org/snow-advanced-course-overview/ 

http://mountaineducation.org/snow-advanced-course-sierra-pct-nobo-full-course-description/ 

http://mountaineducation.org/early-season-mountain-advanced-course-introduction/ 

If you want to look at the raft of valuable info we freely give regarding snow/creek safety, go to our school's Facebook page, too

https://www.facebook.com/mountaineducation/ 

I hope this helped!



Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott Williams
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 7:13 PM
To: Colton Kohnke <colton.kohnke at gmail.com>
Cc: Pct Mailing List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Section Hike

You're not crazy Colton, but it's way too early to know what will be melted out by then.  Typically, in mid June there's still the good possibility of snow from the Sierra to the Canadian border.  We still found ourselves walking daily on some leftover snow till August, north of the Sierra, but that was a cold spring.  In years when things melt out early, as in all of the drought years, people were entering the Sierra in early May with no snow equipment.  So the weather closer to departure should be the guiding star for you folks doing sections.  With not having to make it to Canada, you're free to hike whatever sections are the best this year.

Doing Ned's training, as Scott suggests is a great way to get comfortable with snow.  If the year is high snow by departure, you'll want to have some kind of traction devices and an ice ax, and the ability to use both.  If we get a quick spring melt out, which is not uncommon either, you may not need either.

Another strategy  if the snow is high come mid June might be to start just north of Sonora Pass and head north, as the northern Sierra is much lower in elevation than the aptly named High Sierra to the south.  By the time you get to Oregon, you'll be incredibly strong and you could probably knock out the whole of Oregon, which is much faster hiking and quite beautiful.

But it's too early in the season right now to know with any certainty what the snow pack will be come June.

Shroomer

On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Colton Kohnke <colton.kohnke at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Very nice discussion. Except it has me reconsidering my section hike plan!
> I was planning on starting at Crater lake and heading northbound to 
> Manning. I'd start about mid June and end around mid August. 
> Basically, am I nuts to do that portion that early in the season?
>
> Thanks,
> Colton
>
> On Jan 18, 2017 7:37 PM, "Shifali Gupta" <sgupta15 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Claire,
> >
> > Thanks for starting this thread. I was thinking along the same lines 
> > - section hike from Kennedy Meadows to Ashland or Crater Lake (still
> deciding
> > the end point).
> >
> > Scott, thanks for the pointer. Do we have a general snow forecast 
> > for the summer? Also, what would be the best way to train for snow 
> > hiking, especially in Sequoia and Yosemite Valley? I've read that 
> > crossing the passes while there's snow can be a little dicey.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Shifali
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond < 
> > scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that 
> > > time
> of
> > > year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much 
> > > snow this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can 
> > > be bad
> but
> > > not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but
> figure
> > > I?d
> > > > give it a shot.
> > > >
> > > > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 
> > > > 1000
> miles
> > > > and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting at
> Kennedy
> > > > Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was 
> > > > wondering if
> > any
> > > > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, 
> > > > or
> > does
> > > > that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are 
> > > > pretty
> > crazy
> > > > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > Claire
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > > >
> > > > List Archives:
> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >
> > > List Archives:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shifali Gupta
> >
> > Portfolio Deployment Associate | SolarCity M.A. (Climate and 
> > Society) | Columbia University B.E. (Information Technology) | Delhi 
> > University LinkedIn 
> > <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/shifali-gupta/32/9b/860> | Twitter 
> > <https://twitter.com/ShifGupta> | Website 
> > <http://www.greenglobesolutions.wordpress.com/>
> > #  +1-614-432-1658
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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>
> List Archives:
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Jan 23 23:15:54 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 21:15:54 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <15D20F97-566E-4FC9-A989-5D6070214AC2@gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10pnP4FKvbr-V_-JHJ9aOrfNv_-xxf3Y3mFQ87RTD+ExQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10dDskr_TqqVgV--rWJVQy+bPZ3bYi0ABdvanKduuqzKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <15D20F97-566E-4FC9-A989-5D6070214AC2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <415c01d27600$f0bdbdd0$d2393970$@mountaineducation.org>

Claire, 

I have to add into your specific question, now that I've found it in my email...

"How are you expected to get a permit in February (when they become available online) if you don?t really know what the snow is going to be like?"

Apply for a permit with start dates anytime after May 1st as long as you know how to walk on snow. 

Snow is not the problem keeping people out of the high elevations of the Sierra before July-August, it is their inexperience on it and subsequent fear of the unknown. Dispel all that with a backpacking course in steep snow savvy, and you're good to go! 

Just because there's snow on the ground doesn't mean you can't go hiking...

Any more questions?


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of claire rdl
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 4:45 PM
To: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>; Pct Mailing List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Section Hike

Thanks Scott. I guess one big question I have is how are you expected to get a permit in February (when they become available online) if you don?t really know what the snow is going to be like. The permitting is the main reason I?m asking all these questions now. 


 

> On Jan 18, 2017, at 7:41 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Going southbound would also be fine, as is flipping, as you're starting at the right time for that section, but you can still encounter snow in Northern CA in late June and Early July, just like in the Sierra.  If you have the flexibility to decide closer to your start date, you'll be able to follow the melt out and start at whichever end is better.  And,no matter what the snow looks like right now, given a couple of Pineapple Express storms (very warm) or just an early spring, the snow can be gone in a matter of days, or a few weeks.  So trying to predict the depths right now is a good game, but not very dependable.  The year I hiked, the spring just never came and in June we had snow from the High Sierra to Canada in all the  mountains.  Several friends of mine who flipped north, had to back out after 50 miles as the blow downs and deep snow was just too much.  I hooked up with some wonderful folks and we did 5 weeks over the Sierra, mostly in snow, and it was some of the best backpacking any of us have ever done.
> 
> Keep some flexibility in your plans and go for whatever is best when you're ready to start.
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:32 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com <mailto:baidarker at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Everything that Scott said.  Head net is a must, and bug repellant, but even in a big snow year,  I had bad bugs in Tuolumne Meadows in late June (the whole of the High Sierra could be bad if there's a big hatch)  but north of that, it was sporadic and not at all the run screaming from the trail type of bug problems.  You'll be hiking some of the most gorgeous mountains in America.  Ending at the border will put you right near Ashland Oregon, many folks' favorite trail town.  Great food, a bit of nightlife and the Shakespeare festival of course.  Sounds like a great plan.
> 
> Have a wonderful Summer!
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com <mailto:scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>> wrote:
> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that time 
> of year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect much 
> snow this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito can be 
> bad but not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com <mailto:clairerdl at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but 
> > figure I?d give it a shot.
> >
> > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 
> > miles and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting 
> > at Kennedy Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was 
> > wondering if any of you know a better place to start around late 
> > June/early July, or does that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve 
> > heard mosquitos are pretty crazy around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Claire
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net> To unsubscribe, 
> > or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> > <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> > <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net> To unsubscribe, 
> or change options visit:
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> 
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> 

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From weathercarrot at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 23 23:37:48 2017
From: weathercarrot at hotmail.com (Weathercarrot -)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 05:37:48 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Sierra Snow Pack to date
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB107375BBC7C56ACADBA699F5AE750@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Ned writes -

>> Aren't we (Tahoe area) getting pretty close to the 500 inches of snowfall
(not the total on the ground) that was the total for 2011? and it's only mid-January. >>

Here's a link to the latest Tahoe area stats.  Click on the black chart to enlarge.  It has all the relevant data.

https://opensnow.com/dailysnow/tahoe

The majority of resorts are showing between 350 and 400 inches so far this season, which is mostly in the range of
80-100% of annual average, and also not far off of percentage of April 1st.


From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Jan 23 23:46:05 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 21:46:05 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_auAWaRfqDW=0vAqAo0bLPpxDPiTsPsObihGwRPSEm5Dow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPNr+xo-w0uYORiSKVxAVk051J4g8xD8cTDNuQEbxBQkUcZoaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auAWaRfqDW=0vAqAo0bLPpxDPiTsPsObihGwRPSEm5Dow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <417a01d27605$283742f0$78a5c8d0$@mountaineducation.org>

Creek crossings vs. Steep snow crossings, which is worse?

Both can be nasty for your health.

The dangerous creeks are those with deep channels, rough creek bottoms, and fast flows. A slip and fall in one of these could be very dangerous, so the key is crossing selection location and skills. Time of day can have an effect on creek volume, but it depends on the intensity of the thaw and your timing in it. Will you die trying? Most likely not, but it can and has happened. You can minimize the danger by practicing the STOP acronym (mentioned in another of my posts this evening) and having the skills to cross this type of creek wisely.

Steep snow can be unnerving, but negotiating it with the right skills after wise decisions can be just like crossing a challenging creek. You've got to know what you're doing. Keep in mind this whole discussion has to do with early season high sierra backpacking, say any time after the thaw starts, around mid-May. The danger with steep snow is falling and tumbling into boulders, trees, going over a cliff, or into a lake/creek below you. The classic PCT injury happens every year on Sonora Pass. There is a snow field on the south side (northern aspect) that claims a few thru hikers because they have already sent home their self-arrest and traction control devices, thinking there won't be any more snow ahead. Retain this, as long as you may have to cross even a short, steep patch of snow across the trail, keep those two items with you! (...and don't use an ice axe! Take a self-arrest pole because it serves to prevent a loss of balance in the first place and then serves to save your life by allowing you to self-arrest or stop your tumble before you run into something harder than you).

Ok, the potential for death is probably greater in a whitewater creek crossing and for serious injury after a steep snow slip-and-fall, but all in all, both are nasty, but the risks are minimized with training and experience, for sure!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott Diamond
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 4:36 PM
To: Shifali Gupta <sgupta15 at gmail.com>
Cc: Pct Mailing List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Section Hike

There is snowtel info on snowpack. Someone posted something a while back. I don't know how to pull it and it is pretty early to start looking anyway.

Ned posts often about snow travel. If you need to learn to use how to safely cross snow then I'd sign up for one of his classes ( http://mountaineducation.org/). IMO there isn't any specific training for snow much beyond general fitness. The snow/passes do not scare me but as was posted recently the river crossing will kill you. I think that is where you need to be careful.

In high snow years, a number of hikers have flipped up to Ashland and hiked south to KM. Generally it is not that successful. If there is snow in the Sierras there is also probably snow in Northern Calif. Haven't done it myself but that is what I was told by hikers that did.

        -Scott



On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Shifali Gupta <sgupta15 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Claire,
>
> Thanks for starting this thread. I was thinking along the same lines - 
> section hike from Kennedy Meadows to Ashland or Crater Lake (still 
> deciding the end point).
>
> Scott, thanks for the pointer. Do we have a general snow forecast for 
> the summer? Also, what would be the best way to train for snow hiking, 
> especially in Sequoia and Yosemite Valley? I've read that crossing the 
> passes while there's snow can be a little dicey.
>
> Thanks,
> Shifali
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Scott Diamond < 
> scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That sounds like a great section to hike. Big Section. Given that 
>> time of year and mileage that is probably the best section.  I expect 
>> much snow this season so the later in June the better. Yes mosquito 
>> can be bad but not that bad. Bring bug repellent and a mosquito head net.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, claire rdl <clairerdl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi everyone! New to this list, not quite sure how it works, but 
>> > figure
>> I?d
>> > give it a shot.
>> >
>> > Hoping to get some advice on a section hike, thinking around 1000 
>> > miles and starting in late June/early July. For now, I am starting 
>> > at Kennedy Meadows and heading to the Oregon Border. However, I was 
>> > wondering if
>> any
>> > of you know a better place to start around late June/early July, or 
>> > does that sound like a pleasurable hike? I?ve heard mosquitos are 
>> > pretty
>> crazy
>> > around that time, any advice on avoiding them?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> > Claire
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Shifali Gupta
>
> Portfolio Deployment Associate | SolarCity M.A. (Climate and Society) 
> | Columbia University B.E. (Information Technology) | Delhi University 
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/shifali-gupta/32/9b/860> | 
> Twitter <https://twitter.com/ShifGupta> | Website 
> <http://www.greenglobesolutions.wordpress.com/>
> #  +1-614-432-1658
>
>
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Jan 23 23:51:18 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 21:51:18 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking?
In-Reply-To: <FB0F0053-E6E7-4D6A-9097-368C15AD2099@gmail.com>
References: <189301d270f0$51115cc0$f3341640$@mountaineducation.org>
 <47DF19F4-AA44-4304-8128-AE8556D8B010@gmail.com>
 <2043574620.91020474.1484685091196.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <FB0F0053-E6E7-4D6A-9097-368C15AD2099@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41ac01d27605$e2408940$a6c19bc0$@mountaineducation.org>

Sabrina!

Due to the hormone changes during pregnancy, joints become more elastic and allow stretching. I would say that most mothers out there would agree with you!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Sabrina Harrison
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 2:40 PM
To: Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
Cc: Pct-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking?

For what it's worth, I have had four children and my feet have grown slightly with each kid. No kidding! Who knows why. But I'm here to tell you, I'm not imagining it. I had to get rid of all my shoes after each baby and that ain't no joke. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> My experience with foot expansion may be unusual. I thru-hiked the AT in '06, wearing Garmont boots most of the way. My feet were the same size at Katahdin as they were at Springer. In '10 I started a PCT thru hike, and my feet expanded within 300-400 miles, wearing trail runners. Maybe the heat is a factor. Both trails have lots of rocks and hard surfaces, so it wasn't just the rocks. 
> Mango
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> From: "Jay Bruins" <jbruins at gmail.com>
> To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 3:10:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Shoe size, type, yet foot expansion while backpacking? 
> 
> The super nontechnical explanation is that your feet flatten out (basically, rapid aging). This changes stress patterns on your bones and can cause fun. I suffered a stress fracture and the remedy was stiffer shoes and insoles with better arch support (recommendation by a podiatrist, not the internet). 
> 
> Coming off the trail, I had a pair of ski boots that didn?t fit. I went to the boot fitter and he simply formed some insoles (I previously had none in those boots) and the result was my foot box fit similar to how it used to. 
> 
> FWIW, my shoe size only increased by a half size on the trail. I have 
> also backpacked at least a week a year for most years since I was 13 
> so the increase might have been less than someone who had no such 
> prior use. Also, since the trail, unless I?m cycling or going 
> someplace super fancy, I always wear my trail runners so there is no 
> distinction in trail vs non-trail shoe for me :)
> 
> Cheers,
> Armstrong
> 
> 
>> On Jan 17, 2017, at 10:34 AM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote: 
>> 
>> Mango, Shroomer, and everyone else,
>> 
>> I don't understand why hiker's feet expand and lengthen over the 
>> course of a long hike. I'm having a hard time simply accepting this 
>> rationale, that it's going to happen to all hikers.
>> 
>> As you guys may know, I log between 100 and 200 days on-trail every 
>> year, especially since 2005. I did the PCT and CDT. I typically carry 
>> between 65 and 80 pound packs. I always use a leather boot that is 
>> one size bigger than my running shoe.
>> 
>> Here is the source of my confusion, my feet haven't changed since 
>> high school!
>> 
>> What is it I am doing that everyone else is not? Why haven't my feet 
>> changed at all over the years? Is it that I haven't bought into the 
>> assumption that my feet would swell and lengthen? Could it be that my 
>> boots have been supporting my feet sufficiently, thus preventing this common malady?
>> 
>> Would someone please explain? 
>> 
>> 
>> Ned Tibbits, Director
>> Mountain Education, Inc. 
>> ned at mountaineducation.org
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott 
>> Williams
>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 8:43 PM
>> To: Tom Weir <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
>> Cc: Pct-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
>> 
>> Hey Tom,
>> 
>> The Altras are all about the wide toe box and zero drop heal. Most 
>> folks should go with a bigger shoe as Mango suggests just because 
>> your feet swell and lengthen as you hike, but if you're main issue is 
>> the width of the toe box, this may be a good shoe for you. The zero 
>> drop heal sometimes takes some getting used to, so I'd recommend trying them as early as possible.
>> You can always send them back if they don't work. 
>> 
>> Give them a shot and see if they fit your feet. 
>> 
>> Shroomer
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 11:34 AM, 
>> <tom.weir at the-cabin-on-the-hill.com>
>> wrote: 
>> 
>>> How do the Altras run in width? I wear New Balance mostly because 
>>> they come in 4E width. The Altras only have a maximum D width. I 
>>> suspect Altras might work for me because of the toe box design. I 
>>> need the 4E because of a wide fore foot, not because of a wide heel. 
>>> Any
>> thoughts? 
>>> 
>>> Tom
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
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>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> List Archives: 
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>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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From brick at brickrobbins.com  Tue Jan 24 01:03:53 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2017 23:03:53 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike
In-Reply-To: <414c01d275ff$fb504de0$f1f0e9a0$@mountaineducation.org>
References: <529136BE-8C71-4D8C-91C0-95D1404AA416@gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_auouy-CwzVf65kY2ZTM50_O2-J=ngcgg0Nb+7k5eqBKGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPNr+xo-w0uYORiSKVxAVk051J4g8xD8cTDNuQEbxBQkUcZoaQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAL6K+5z64c1N2d6tSqG6v72DCwzm187GQS0pk86mDKNT6o-hPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj11Vm57VLd59-upM9qJWJrBgM7=M8qbtdgufbqcw6=zczg@mail.gmail.com>
 <414c01d275ff$fb504de0$f1f0e9a0$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <CALV1NzmKe93YOSwyaVsFEzUQSb_m-K90LZGfHHy_WRVRg+4rew@mail.gmail.com>

Would people please stop freaking out about traveling on snow?

Consolidated snow is your friend, with the exception of postholing and
sun cups which are only annoying. If you have an ice axe and know how
to use it, everything is cool

Be scared of the water. The water will kill you

From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 24 09:52:48 2017
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 15:52:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Water
References: <1188545006.4407300.1485273168446.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1188545006.4407300.1485273168446@mail.yahoo.com>

Well, one upside of the (finally) normal to wet Cali weather is that water in the first 700 miles should be less scarce than these last several years.
In looking at the stream flows from the USGS Water Watch page, Campo Creek about 3 1/2 miles west / below the PCT has had its first substantial flow in several years (other than what was obviously a brief thunderstorm in the summer of 2014).
Sweetwater Creek, well to the west of the PCT, but with its headwaters up near the PCT north of Mt. Laguna is also having plenty of flow for the first time in years.
It'll take a lot more sustained precipitation to actually break the drought and recharge the ground water that feeds the creeks and springs well into summer, but so far, it's been a good down payment.




From weathercarrot at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 24 11:29:22 2017
From: weathercarrot at hotmail.com (Weathercarrot -)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 17:29:22 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] more central/northern Sierra snow data
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB10731B1C46BBDD04A9D01F2BAE750@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

There's more data/info today on the same website I posted yesterday.  Read all the way to the bottom to see it all.


https://opensnow.com/dailysnow/tahoe

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 12:48:22 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 11:48:22 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] GO! 2017 PCT thru permit application process opens at
 10:30am TODAY.
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=iYs3Eu66DoVWw-HHsVbT3mJr-w46vS6+MDUsedQ2881g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=iYs3Eu66DoVWw-HHsVbT3mJr-w46vS6+MDUsedQ2881g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jmR9591Mu9c3zy108OE_VhRAVJqYO8w_FtU0GYdCT+iw@mail.gmail.com>

Good luck EVERYBODY! You can do it!

Paint
(PCT 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)

From weathercarrot at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 24 13:14:27 2017
From: weathercarrot at hotmail.com (Weathercarrot -)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 19:14:27 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Big Bear snow report
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB1073D1549297A2B288D18588AE750@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Looks like the snowiest January on record at the Big Bear ski area, with 108 inches this month and 140 so far this season (Nov-Jan).  This compares to 99 inches for all of last season.  Here's the link:


http://www.bigbearmountainresort.com/winter/mountain-information/mountain-info/mountain-report

From candace at jfred.net  Tue Jan 24 14:42:54 2017
From: candace at jfred.net (Candace Frederick)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 12:42:54 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Big Bear snow report
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR13MB1073D1549297A2B288D18588AE750@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN6PR13MB1073D1549297A2B288D18588AE750@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAOU29hzSNnbzeCcMdf9fqzQVW--xrHm7go3NVD9H=FXHEymCAg@mail.gmail.com>

It's crazy up here. The resorts closed twice over the last 4 days because
of the conditions. The snow can go on into May as well, so be prepared!

On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Weathercarrot - <weathercarrot at hotmail.com
> wrote:

> Looks like the snowiest January on record at the Big Bear ski area, with
> 108 inches this month and 140 so far this season (Nov-Jan).  This compares
> to 99 inches for all of last season.  Here's the link:
>
>
> http://www.bigbearmountainresort.com/winter/mountain-information/
> mountain-info/mountain-report
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From rickrparker at icloud.com  Tue Jan 24 21:31:40 2017
From: rickrparker at icloud.com (Rick Parker)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 21:31:40 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] I am looking for a ride
Message-ID: <7825E4B4-62FB-4886-94E6-8ABF705F7D89@icloud.com>

San Diego Airport to Scissors Crossing on April 1st.  No fooling!  I am more than willing to buy us lunch in Julian and top off your fuel tank.  Arriving at Lindberg Field at 10:00 AM.

Any ideas?

Rick Parker


From nobohiker at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 22:38:34 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (NoBo Hiker)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 20:38:34 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] ADZPCTKO
Message-ID: <40047B15-B5FC-4267-A4E0-EDFB182233F8@gmail.com>

will there be one? website says "ADZPCTKO 2016...has been postponed to 2017?

Happy Trails,

Section Hiker Rick

From nobohiker at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 22:48:17 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (NoBo Hiker)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 20:48:17 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Powerhouse Fire Closure
Message-ID: <B2AB182D-D9B4-4861-8132-DB3F61DB5F8C@gmail.com>

Hi PCT-L,

I have been waiting for a couple of years so I can hike the section north of Agua Dulce, CA and I am hoping to hike it this year, but the section is still listed as closed. Does anyone know more about the potential opening? I?ll probably call the Forest Service to find out more, but thought I might ask PCT-L first

Thanks,

Section Hiker Rick

From underwoodtylers at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 06:21:30 2017
From: underwoodtylers at gmail.com (underwoodtylers at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 06:21:30 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Powerhouse Fire Closure
In-Reply-To: <B2AB182D-D9B4-4861-8132-DB3F61DB5F8C@gmail.com>
References: <B2AB182D-D9B4-4861-8132-DB3F61DB5F8C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <367E820A-EB0A-480F-83BC-74D895259BD3@gmail.com>


I heard on (Facebook) 2018. Someone stated they knew someone in the Forest Service who mentioned it should be opened in 2018. 

Whether or not this is true, I don't know. 

RF

> On Jan 24, 2017, at 10:48 PM, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi PCT-L,
> 
> I have been waiting for a couple of years so I can hike the section north of Agua Dulce, CA and I am hoping to hike it this year, but the section is still listed as closed. Does anyone know more about the potential opening? I?ll probably call the Forest Service to find out more, but thought I might ask PCT-L first
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Section Hiker Rick
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From mel at tungate.com  Wed Jan 25 13:00:43 2017
From: mel at tungate.com (Mel Tungate)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:00:43 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Powerhouse Fire Closure
In-Reply-To: <367E820A-EB0A-480F-83BC-74D895259BD3@gmail.com>
References: <B2AB182D-D9B4-4861-8132-DB3F61DB5F8C@gmail.com>
 <367E820A-EB0A-480F-83BC-74D895259BD3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01e201d2773d$563c2ba0$02b482e0$@tungate.com>

The PCT is closed from mile 478.2 at San Francisquito Canyon Rd. north to approximately mile 492.  Agua Dulce is at 454.  So, you can stay with Donna, walk 24 miles north, and stay with the Andersons ( if they both are open ).

The closed section has had an extensive amount of work ( I was part of the many many work crews of what is called the Trail Gorillas ).  The trail in the closed section has been extensively rebuilt and cleaned up for all 14 miles.  We ( they ) were close to saying it was ready - only a few sections need minor attention.   The closed trail has been inspected after our hard rains ( and snow at the PCT level ), and a work crew is going out this weekend.   Any additional rain / snow might put it off for a few weeks.  

The crews for part of the cleanup were joined by a trail machine - basically a small bobcat.  That makes everything move very quickly.  

If you want my guess, probably early this year.  But, I am a long way away from the chain of command.  I am just a gorilla.  My guess is just a guess.

I have to drive 250 miles to get there, so I have only been there a few times.

So, stay tuned.

When the section from 478 to 492 is too snowed in, the gorillas cleaned the trail from 454 to 478, and also from 492 to 518.  We relocated one small section, repaired multiple washed out sections, and just cleaned up the path in other places.  Those sections have remained open.  In addition, there is one hiker that goes out to those sections and works on his own almost every weekend until it gets too hot.  

Mel

> On Jan 24, 2017, at 10:48 PM, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi PCT-L,
> 
> I have been waiting for a couple of years so I can hike the section north of Agua Dulce, CA and I am hoping to hike it this year, but the section is still listed as closed. Does anyone know more about the potential opening? I?ll probably call the Forest Service to find out more, but thought I might ask PCT-L first
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Section Hiker Rick
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.



From richarrant at gmail.com  Wed Jan 25 23:01:38 2017
From: richarrant at gmail.com (Rich Arrant)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:01:38 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Powerhouse Fire Closure
In-Reply-To: <01e201d2773d$563c2ba0$02b482e0$@tungate.com>
References: <B2AB182D-D9B4-4861-8132-DB3F61DB5F8C@gmail.com>
 <367E820A-EB0A-480F-83BC-74D895259BD3@gmail.com>
 <01e201d2773d$563c2ba0$02b482e0$@tungate.com>
Message-ID: <CAGOfpX6gOg6eQMAA=P0QRO9nbTYX+QFSPW4j7eZUymgsSRE0=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for all of the effort.


On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Mel Tungate <mel at tungate.com> wrote:

> The PCT is closed from mile 478.2 at San Francisquito Canyon Rd. north to
> approximately mile 492.  Agua Dulce is at 454.  So, you can stay with
> Donna, walk 24 miles north, and stay with the Andersons ( if they both are
> open ).
>
> The closed section has had an extensive amount of work ( I was part of the
> many many work crews of what is called the Trail Gorillas ).  The trail in
> the closed section has been extensively rebuilt and cleaned up for all 14
> miles.  We ( they ) were close to saying it was ready - only a few sections
> need minor attention.   The closed trail has been inspected after our hard
> rains ( and snow at the PCT level ), and a work crew is going out this
> weekend.   Any additional rain / snow might put it off for a few weeks.
>
> The crews for part of the cleanup were joined by a trail machine -
> basically a small bobcat.  That makes everything move very quickly.
>
> If you want my guess, probably early this year.  But, I am a long way away
> from the chain of command.  I am just a gorilla.  My guess is just a guess.
>
> I have to drive 250 miles to get there, so I have only been there a few
> times.
>
> So, stay tuned.
>
> When the section from 478 to 492 is too snowed in, the gorillas cleaned
> the trail from 454 to 478, and also from 492 to 518.  We relocated one
> small section, repaired multiple washed out sections, and just cleaned up
> the path in other places.  Those sections have remained open.  In addition,
> there is one hiker that goes out to those sections and works on his own
> almost every weekend until it gets too hot.
>
> Mel
>
> > On Jan 24, 2017, at 10:48 PM, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi PCT-L,
> >
> > I have been waiting for a couple of years so I can hike the section
> north of Agua Dulce, CA and I am hoping to hike it this year, but the
> section is still listed as closed. Does anyone know more about the
> potential opening? I?ll probably call the Forest Service to find out more,
> but thought I might ask PCT-L first
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Section Hiker Rick
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 07:21:11 2017
From: laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com (Laurie Hallum)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 13:21:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] ADZPCTKO
References: <74723536.1215175.1485436871355.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <74723536.1215175.1485436871355@mail.yahoo.com>

Go to <adzpctko.org> for the dates and schedules for both kick-offs this year 2017.
Lady Pegasus .
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/24/17, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [pct-l] ADZPCTKO
 To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 8:38 PM
 
 will there be one? website says
 "ADZPCTKO 2016...has been postponed to 2017?
 
 Happy Trails,
 
 Section Hiker Rick
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From mkleedom at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 08:55:07 2017
From: mkleedom at gmail.com (Megan Leedom)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 06:55:07 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
Message-ID: <CAMfDMc+PH9feD4O_tf3M9AG2x7jcQCOEOHHKzdnZrUUDfE17Gg@mail.gmail.com>

Just wanted some opinions from veteran pct hikers regarding hanging food
bags while on the trail. I'll be using a Loksak to keep the small critters
out and a bear canister where required, but was curious if any of you found
it necessary to hang your food at any point. I'm trying to decide if I
should pack some rope and learn proper hanging techniques before I go.

Thanks!

From sam at samwhited.com  Thu Jan 26 10:05:40 2017
From: sam at samwhited.com (Sam Whited)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 10:05:40 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <CAMfDMc+PH9feD4O_tf3M9AG2x7jcQCOEOHHKzdnZrUUDfE17Gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMfDMc+PH9feD4O_tf3M9AG2x7jcQCOEOHHKzdnZrUUDfE17Gg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHbk4RKUd5vkLDEeFRuENESaG76Q+N7YS9Rfz_e8bJXEZRjQwQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Megan Leedom <mkleedom at gmail.com> wrote:
> but was curious if any of you found it necessary to hang your food at any point.

Like carrying basic medical supplies, it's not necessary at all (until
it is). If you hang your food in the worst case you've wasted a few
minutes at the end of the day hanging it, in the best case you've
saved your food supply from being raided by critters.

> I'm trying to decide if I should pack some rope and learn proper hanging techniques before I go.

Short answer: Yes. Even if you decide not to hang food, rope is just
generally useful. If you ever run into a tight spot ? slipped into a
gully, can't cross a flooded stream safely, injur your leg and need to
bind it up, or just want somewhere to string wet cloths up to dry ?
you'll want it.

?Sam

From lara.matthews at student.prescott.edu  Wed Jan 25 13:35:26 2017
From: lara.matthews at student.prescott.edu (Lara A. Matthews)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 11:35:26 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT Research
Message-ID: <CAEbr87wgyYytwyQUrtBUNnZMT5J_MgOw449UknnR5b15GWmEYA@mail.gmail.com>

Good Morning Everyone,

My name is Lara and I am a Master?s student at Prescott College conducting
thesis research on gender, sustainability and thru-hiking. My research is
specific to previous PCT thru-hikers. I am currently seeking voluntary
research subjects for the study.

All interested parties must undergo preliminary interviews to see if they
match certain variables of interest needed for the study. Consequently,
there will be many interested subjects who will not be selected as part of
the study group.

If you are interested in participating in the study, please send me a
message. If you know of any Pacific Crest Trail thru-hikers who may be
interested in this study, please feel free to pass this message forward.

Thanks so much!

Lara

*Lara A. Matthews*
Prescott College
Modes of Inquiry, Graduate Teaching Assistant
MA: Environmental Studies Student
Mobile: 707-951-5105 <707.951.5105>
Lara.Matthews at student.prescott.edu

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Thu Jan 26 12:57:00 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 18:57:00 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <CAHbk4RKUd5vkLDEeFRuENESaG76Q+N7YS9Rfz_e8bJXEZRjQwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMfDMc+PH9feD4O_tf3M9AG2x7jcQCOEOHHKzdnZrUUDfE17Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHbk4RKUd5vkLDEeFRuENESaG76Q+N7YS9Rfz_e8bJXEZRjQwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c7ade309b01e43588535729869b41226@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I know many just sleep with their food in all but mandatory bear can areas. But there are some sections of the PCT that have significant bear activity, but do not mandate a can. It is a good idea to have the tools and skills necessary to be able to hang your food in high-risk areas. Plus, the loss of food is not only an inconvenience to you--ultimately it could result in destruction of the bear.

The old method is counterbalancing, which is a bit trickier but still very doable. Many use "The PCT Method" which is easier to do. See it described here: http://theultimatehang.com/2013/03/hanging-a-bear-bag-the-pct-method/ Although technically it may not be legal in areas that specifically call out for  counter balancing, I don't think the dangling line from the PCT Method poses any additional risk of food loss.

This reminds me of an old joke we use to share back before bear cans were invented and a good counterbalance hang was the only way to protect food. After accomplishing the task and meeting the height and distance guidelines, one of us would inevitably look at the other and say, "now THAT is what I call WELL-HUNG."

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Sam Whited
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:06 AM
To: Megan Leedom
Cc: pct-l
Subject: Re: [pct-l] hanging food

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Megan Leedom <mkleedom at gmail.com> wrote:
> but was curious if any of you found it necessary to hang your food at any point.

Like carrying basic medical supplies, it's not necessary at all (until it is). If you hang your food in the worst case you've wasted a few minutes at the end of the day hanging it, in the best case you've saved your food supply from being raided by critters.

> I'm trying to decide if I should pack some rope and learn proper hanging techniques before I go.

Short answer: Yes. Even if you decide not to hang food, rope is just generally useful. If you ever run into a tight spot ? slipped into a gully, can't cross a flooded stream safely, injur your leg and need to bind it up, or just want somewhere to string wet cloths up to dry ? you'll want it.

?Sam
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 13:02:04 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 11:02:04 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <c7ade309b01e43588535729869b41226@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
References: <CAMfDMc+PH9feD4O_tf3M9AG2x7jcQCOEOHHKzdnZrUUDfE17Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHbk4RKUd5vkLDEeFRuENESaG76Q+N7YS9Rfz_e8bJXEZRjQwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <c7ade309b01e43588535729869b41226@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_as+N+W1=PiLXsaK=fT9qR2WnFmJ17HqzicLqz8Dkn070g@mail.gmail.com>

I echo Herb's general advice (mostly I slept with my food but in a few
places I hung food too).

Only thing I thought I'd mention is that Lassen is having a serious problem
with one bear. This year they now require a bear canister
<https://www.nps.gov/lavo/planyourvisit/wilderness-permit-information.htm>.
Something to consider in planning your trip logistics.

        -Scott



On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Herb Stroh <HStroh at sjmslaw.com> wrote:

> I know many just sleep with their food in all but mandatory bear can
> areas. But there are some sections of the PCT that have significant bear
> activity, but do not mandate a can. It is a good idea to have the tools and
> skills necessary to be able to hang your food in high-risk areas. Plus, the
> loss of food is not only an inconvenience to you--ultimately it could
> result in destruction of the bear.
>
> The old method is counterbalancing, which is a bit trickier but still very
> doable. Many use "The PCT Method" which is easier to do. See it described
> here: http://theultimatehang.com/2013/03/hanging-a-bear-bag-
> the-pct-method/ Although technically it may not be legal in areas that
> specifically call out for  counter balancing, I don't think the dangling
> line from the PCT Method poses any additional risk of food loss.
>
> This reminds me of an old joke we use to share back before bear cans were
> invented and a good counterbalance hang was the only way to protect food.
> After accomplishing the task and meeting the height and distance
> guidelines, one of us would inevitably look at the other and say, "now THAT
> is what I call WELL-HUNG."
>
> Herb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Sam Whited
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:06 AM
> To: Megan Leedom
> Cc: pct-l
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] hanging food
>
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Megan Leedom <mkleedom at gmail.com> wrote:
> > but was curious if any of you found it necessary to hang your food at
> any point.
>
> Like carrying basic medical supplies, it's not necessary at all (until it
> is). If you hang your food in the worst case you've wasted a few minutes at
> the end of the day hanging it, in the best case you've saved your food
> supply from being raided by critters.
>
> > I'm trying to decide if I should pack some rope and learn proper hanging
> techniques before I go.
>
> Short answer: Yes. Even if you decide not to hang food, rope is just
> generally useful. If you ever run into a tight spot ? slipped into a gully,
> can't cross a flooded stream safely, injur your leg and need to bind it up,
> or just want somewhere to string wet cloths up to dry ? you'll want it.
>
> ?Sam
> _______________________________________________
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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From sam at samwhited.com  Thu Jan 26 13:35:19 2017
From: sam at samwhited.com (Sam Whited)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 13:35:19 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <c7ade309b01e43588535729869b41226@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
References: <CAMfDMc+PH9feD4O_tf3M9AG2x7jcQCOEOHHKzdnZrUUDfE17Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHbk4RKUd5vkLDEeFRuENESaG76Q+N7YS9Rfz_e8bJXEZRjQwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <c7ade309b01e43588535729869b41226@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
Message-ID: <CAHbk4RLkOFKGgn4j9k2xxgNeF2xQei=WsCTR=_zZ0QJgKYobBQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Herb Stroh <HStroh at sjmslaw.com> wrote:
> I know many just sleep with their food in all but mandatory bear can areas. But there are some sections of the PCT that have significant bear activity, but do not mandate a can. It is a good idea to have the tools and skills necessary to be able to hang your food in high-risk areas. Plus, the loss of food is not only an inconvenience to you--ultimately it could result in destruction of the bear.

Bear's aren't generally the thing I'm worried most about (althoug of
course I wouldn't want them getting my food either). I've had mice or
rats chew threw the footbox of my tent to get at some food I left
around once, and have come back to camp to find a racoon russtling
through my food bag or sniffing around teh campsight more than once.

Hanging food is trivial in most places and takes about 5 minutes at
the end of the day; the arguments against it as far as I can tell are
always like someone saying "I haven't been in a car accident in 10
years, therefore seatbelts are unnecessary" ? it's a trivial action to
stop a, perhapse unlikely but with much worse consequences, problem.

?Sam

From mkleedom at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 13:56:12 2017
From: mkleedom at gmail.com (Megan Leedom)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 19:56:12 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_as+N+W1=PiLXsaK=fT9qR2WnFmJ17HqzicLqz8Dkn070g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMfDMc+PH9feD4O_tf3M9AG2x7jcQCOEOHHKzdnZrUUDfE17Gg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAHbk4RKUd5vkLDEeFRuENESaG76Q+N7YS9Rfz_e8bJXEZRjQwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <c7ade309b01e43588535729869b41226@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
 <CAH8m_as+N+W1=PiLXsaK=fT9qR2WnFmJ17HqzicLqz8Dkn070g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMfDMc+YapDRCeva3HuxoAHiOrrGfW6xnGE9qS74zT-NzFhhwQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for all the input! I really appreciate everyone's knowledge and
advice. Think I'll bring a bit of rope and some basic hanging skills out
there with me, just in case.

Megan

From olthof.samantha at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 10:41:51 2017
From: olthof.samantha at gmail.com (Samantha O)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 16:41:51 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] PCT Research
In-Reply-To: <CAEbr87wgyYytwyQUrtBUNnZMT5J_MgOw449UknnR5b15GWmEYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEbr87wgyYytwyQUrtBUNnZMT5J_MgOw449UknnR5b15GWmEYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7zcWZDQaLMKELNVF2JOpX7GTUmLC-hQVkd=nGBQzDBFG0-xw@mail.gmail.com>

You should post on the subreddit too - www.Reddit.com/r/pacificcresttrail

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 11:35 AM Lara A. Matthews <
lara.matthews at student.prescott.edu> wrote:

> Good Morning Everyone,
>
> My name is Lara and I am a Master?s student at Prescott College conducting
> thesis research on gender, sustainability and thru-hiking. My research is
> specific to previous PCT thru-hikers. I am currently seeking voluntary
> research subjects for the study.
>
> All interested parties must undergo preliminary interviews to see if they
> match certain variables of interest needed for the study. Consequently,
> there will be many interested subjects who will not be selected as part of
> the study group.
>
> If you are interested in participating in the study, please send me a
> message. If you know of any Pacific Crest Trail thru-hikers who may be
> interested in this study, please feel free to pass this message forward.
>
> Thanks so much!
>
> Lara
>
> *Lara A. Matthews*
> Prescott College
> Modes of Inquiry, Graduate Teaching Assistant
> MA: Environmental Studies Student
> Mobile: 707-951-5105 <707.951.5105>
> Lara.Matthews at student.prescott.edu
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From bost258 at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 10:54:33 2017
From: bost258 at yahoo.com (Brian Bost)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 16:54:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Section hike: No. Cal to Washington
References: <572210078.1341105.1485449673273.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <572210078.1341105.1485449673273@mail.yahoo.com>

Good morning. My name is Brian Bost from Atlanta, GA and I am planning a section hike starting in mid to late April. ?I would prefer to avoid the desert and with the crazy snow the Sierra's are getting, the thought is to start somewhere just past them in Northern California.?
Does anyone think this is too early to be that far north? I assume there wont be many others in that area? Any advise around this plan is greatly appreciated!?
Cheers,Brian

From reddirt23 at att.net  Fri Jan 27 11:19:42 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 09:19:42 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
Message-ID: <76D6C1D9-2E32-4B2E-9198-FFE92D1B17F1@att.net>

Simply hanging your food and knowing how to hang it or counter balance it are two different things.  
I've seen food hanging in the Sierra where folks simply have a food sack hanging from a not very high branch many times.  Any bear patrolling would have easily got the sacks.  Counter balancing is a whole other program that requires some practice and on the sight ingenuity.  

From reddirt23 at att.net  Fri Jan 27 11:34:08 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 09:34:08 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
Message-ID: <72619AB5-9A7A-477D-A14C-131E2FF6BB84@att.net>

Most simple hangs will keep the little critters at bay.  Not so bears.  And in many places, especially in the high country, there simply can be no good place to make a decent anti-bear hang.  They are really smart, good climbers, tall when they stand up, and really strong.  Most lodgepole forest wont offer many good branches high enough or strong enough to dissuade a determined bear from getting the food stash. 
A good counter balance is like 16ft off the ground and way out on a branch far from the trunk of the tree.  On another note...  I've seen parachute cord and small twine dangling from branches more than I've seen poor or simply stupid food hangs.  So, you not only have to hang the food so hopefully the bears are not going to risk injury to get it, and you have to be able to recover it yourself.  

From jdrewsmith at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 11:41:26 2017
From: jdrewsmith at gmail.com (Drew Smith)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 17:41:26 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <72619AB5-9A7A-477D-A14C-131E2FF6BB84@att.net>
References: <72619AB5-9A7A-477D-A14C-131E2FF6BB84@att.net>
Message-ID: <CAFiWH3i=r=Z_msDkNUhBnqb9Yw3sUGWTQjzujwGs-3oVLbqH2A@mail.gmail.com>

+1 on everything Stephen said. Here in CO, most trees are not well-suited
for an effective hang. But our bears are more shy and less aggressive than
Yosemite bears and people delude themselves into thinking that they have
done a good job hanging when they have not.

The other delusional practice I have noted on the PCT is leaving your bear
canister in camp. Sure your food is secure. But the odors will still
attract bears, and you will end up with a frustrated hungry bruin right
outside your tent. This does not seem wise to me.

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 10:13 AM Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net> wrote:

> Most simple hangs will keep the little critters at bay.  Not so bears.
> And in many places, especially in the high country, there simply can be no
> good place to make a decent anti-bear hang.  They are really smart, good
> climbers, tall when they stand up, and really strong.  Most lodgepole
> forest wont offer many good branches high enough or strong enough to
> dissuade a determined bear from getting the food stash.
> A good counter balance is like 16ft off the ground and way out on a branch
> far from the trunk of the tree.  On another note...  I've seen parachute
> cord and small twine dangling from branches more than I've seen poor or
> simply stupid food hangs.  So, you not only have to hang the food so
> hopefully the bears are not going to risk injury to get it, and you have to
> be able to recover it yourself.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From reddirt23 at att.net  Fri Jan 27 13:26:21 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 11:26:21 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Section hike: No. Cal to Washington
Message-ID: <21C3494D-07BC-4BB1-84E2-1DE5DAC25D3F@att.net>

April?  What kind of skis are you packing in?  

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 13:30:48 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 13:30:48 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <C9EFAECD-5B2B-40C9-BEDD-18C58464B075@gmail.com>
References: <CALYggkg2oFVAQXwLe0xQ79vU0T2ebmQs-FPxfbQW6Xeq6GQHKA@mail.gmail.com>
 <230BE45C-0E1F-4790-8BBF-AD2766EE4502@gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10a7hcBEe4_uTJbPyApffnC0ChFj4Sxg51jYGu7TzLSYQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5f136d31-d44a-671d-0327-0a22e22e9e3c@gmail.com>
 <1948260431.89466674.1484484317302.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <921F5CE0-7076-4C7D-9E9E-0B4A66231599@gmail.com>
 <6660e00e-bade-5cb3-dfba-22578e353658@scottbryce.com>
 <C9EFAECD-5B2B-40C9-BEDD-18C58464B075@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94390F91-D50F-42F5-9930-80C05D23F99D@gmail.com>

Section Hiker Rick! I'm so sorry I'm just now responding to your kind message. Yes, I am very excited to hike this section. Not only because it is my first one! But also because I love the desert. I lived outside Las Vegas for a year and truly enjoyed it. But it's hoooooooot. 
Cheers
Sabrina 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 16, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Rick <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:

>> am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo
>> to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild
>> if I surprise myself and crush miles.
> 
> This section is absolutely amazing!
> I hiked it with the 'herd' back in 2013 and there were lot's of folks complaining about the desert and that they don't like it.  
> So my recommendation is to start ahead of the herd - if you can. 
> 
> Enjoy! It's a great section. 
> 
> Section hiker Rick
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Jan 15, 2017, at 12:41 PM, Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 1/15/2017 12:27 PM, Sabrina Harrison wrote:
>>> I am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan to take on Campo
>>> to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary destination of Idyllwild
>>> if I surprise myself and crush miles.
>> 
>> 
>> Campo to Warner Springs really isn't that far. Odds are, you will crush
>> the miles.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 16:31:44 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 22:31:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
References: <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665@mail.yahoo.com>


On Fri, 1/27/17, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
The other delusional practice
 I have noted on the PCT is leaving your bear
 canister in camp. Sure your food is secure. But
 the odors will still
 attract bears, and you
 will end up with a frustrated hungry bruin right
 outside your tent. This does not seem wise to
 me.

-------------------------------------------- 
 The bears in the Sierra are smart. I've woken in the morning to see bear tracks walk right by my bearikade. They don't even bother to knock them over.

The bear can requirement has been very effective in altering bear behavior.

Gary

From jdrewsmith at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 18:16:58 2017
From: jdrewsmith at gmail.com (Drew Smith)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 00:16:58 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAFiWH3j6QuyJib+tTPxytzjTjGPG1qZYfBZPy9f4+yRVQA0B7Q@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure I would count "attracted a bear to camp but it didn't try to
steal my food" as a win.

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:31 PM Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> On Fri, 1/27/17, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> The other delusional practice
>  I have noted on the PCT is leaving your bear
>  canister in camp. Sure your food is secure. But
>  the odors will still
>  attract bears, and you
>  will end up with a frustrated hungry bruin right
>  outside your tent. This does not seem wise to
>  me.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>  The bears in the Sierra are smart. I've woken in the morning to see bear
> tracks walk right by my bearikade. They don't even bother to knock them
> over.
>
> The bear can requirement has been very effective in altering bear behavior.
>
> Gary
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Fri Jan 27 18:45:25 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 16:45:25 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <CAFiWH3j6QuyJib+tTPxytzjTjGPG1qZYfBZPy9f4+yRVQA0B7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAFiWH3j6QuyJib+tTPxytzjTjGPG1qZYfBZPy9f4+yRVQA0B7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=wL8BNhNg3KYm5uQwHCzOyoxOZkwkSkJYxXVV9EO4CLw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure I would count "attracted a bear to camp but it didn't try to
> steal my food" as a win.

Bears have great senses and they are very smart, but they are
creatures of habit, just like we are.

If you camp in the same location as other campers habitually do, such
as any nice camp site along the trail, then the bears are probably
visiting you every night, no matter what you do with your food.

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 19:47:33 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 17:47:33 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz=wL8BNhNg3KYm5uQwHCzOyoxOZkwkSkJYxXVV9EO4CLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAFiWH3j6QuyJib+tTPxytzjTjGPG1qZYfBZPy9f4+yRVQA0B7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nz=wL8BNhNg3KYm5uQwHCzOyoxOZkwkSkJYxXVV9EO4CLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ab1207a4-c1d3-99ca-7b8d-bbcd06342a6c@gmail.com>

Ray Jardine published his first backpackers guide in 1995 or so. He 
advocated stealth camping - meaning camp where others haven't, camp on 
duff, camp low, and hike high...  Interpret that as you want.

You will be lucky to encounter a bear on the PCT.  In all but national 
parks bears are hunted, and avoid humans like we're the plague.

Stealth camp in national parks and along the JMT, and camp where you 
want elsewhere.

Use snow and leaves instead of TP, and smile a lot...

Jeff,
Laramie, WY

On 1/27/2017 4:45 PM, Brick Robbins wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm not sure I would count "attracted a bear to camp but it didn't try to
>> steal my food" as a win.
> Bears have great senses and they are very smart, but they are
> creatures of habit, just like we are.
>
> If you camp in the same location as other campers habitually do, such
> as any nice camp site along the trail, then the bears are probably
> visiting you every night, no matter what you do with your food.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 28 11:25:14 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 17:25:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
References: <741700022.2561138.1485624314368.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <741700022.2561138.1485624314368@mail.yahoo.com>

Sabrina,

Lucky for you, and the rest of us, the PCT doesn't go through the desert. Maybe a few miles in Section E, and kind of skirts it at Scissor's Crossing.

Gary
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 1/27/17, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
 To: "Rick" <nobohiker at gmail.com>
 Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Friday, January 27, 2017, 11:30 AM
 
 Section Hiker Rick! I'm so sorry I'm
 just now responding to your kind message. Yes, I am very
 excited to hike this section. Not only because it is my
 first one! But also because I love the desert. I lived
 outside Las Vegas for a year and truly enjoyed it. But it's
 hoooooooot. 
 Cheers
 Sabrina 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jan 16, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Rick <nobohiker at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 
 >> am going on my first section hike mid May. I plan
 to take on Campo
 >> to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary
 destination of Idyllwild
 >> if I surprise myself and crush miles.
 > 
 > This section is absolutely amazing!
 > I hiked it with the 'herd' back in 2013 and there were
 lot's of folks complaining about the desert and that they
 don't like it.? 
 > So my recommendation is to start ahead of the herd - if
 you can. 
 > 
 > Enjoy! It's a great section. 
 > 
 > Section hiker Rick
 > 
 > Sent from my iPhone
 > 
 >>> On Jan 15, 2017, at 12:41 PM, Scott Bryce
 <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
 wrote:
 >>> 
 >>> On 1/15/2017 12:27 PM, Sabrina Harrison wrote:
 >>> I am going on my first section hike mid May. I
 plan to take on Campo
 >>> to Warner Springs, or I have set a secondary
 destination of Idyllwild
 >>> if I surprise myself and crush miles.
 >> 
 >> 
 >> Campo to Warner Springs really isn't that far. Odds
 are, you will crush
 >> the miles.
 >> _______________________________________________
 >> Pct-L mailing list
 >> Pct-L at backcountry.net
 >> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 >> 
 >> List Archives:
 >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 >> All content is copyrighted by the respective
 authors.
 >> Reproduction is prohibited without express
 permission.
 > _______________________________________________
 > Pct-L mailing list
 > Pct-L at backcountry.net
 > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 > 
 > List Archives:
 > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
 

From nobohiker at gmail.com  Sat Jan 28 11:29:44 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (NoBo Hiker)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 09:29:44 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] ADZPCTKO
In-Reply-To: <74723536.1215175.1485436871355@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <74723536.1215175.1485436871355.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <74723536.1215175.1485436871355@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E94CCDB5-4067-4578-BF72-74E7489D068A@gmail.com>

the website has no information about 2017 whatsoever, hence I sent this email 
;-)
Anyway, we?ll see..

> On Jan 26, 2017, at 5:21 AM, Laurie Hallum <laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Go to <adzpctko.org> for the dates and schedules for both kick-offs this year 2017.
> Lady Pegasus .
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 1/24/17, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Subject: [pct-l] ADZPCTKO
> To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Date: Tuesday, January 24, 2017, 8:38 PM
> 
> will there be one? website says
> "ADZPCTKO 2016...has been postponed to 2017?
> 
> Happy Trails,
> 
> Section Hiker Rick
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From nobohiker at gmail.com  Sat Jan 28 11:34:01 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (NoBo Hiker)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 09:34:01 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <ab1207a4-c1d3-99ca-7b8d-bbcd06342a6c@gmail.com>
References: <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1646606542.2277133.1485556304665@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAFiWH3j6QuyJib+tTPxytzjTjGPG1qZYfBZPy9f4+yRVQA0B7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nz=wL8BNhNg3KYm5uQwHCzOyoxOZkwkSkJYxXVV9EO4CLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <ab1207a4-c1d3-99ca-7b8d-bbcd06342a6c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <801B8CCB-587B-4AA8-9CC7-AB0CE5B8E8AE@gmail.com>

> You will be lucky to encounter a bear on the PCT. 

I like to second that. I feel really lucky and privileged when I see a bear. Highest chance to run into a bear is in the Natonal Parks (Yosemite), near car campers..unfortunately.

Happy Trails!


> On Jan 27, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Ray Jardine published his first backpackers guide in 1995 or so. He advocated stealth camping - meaning camp where others haven't, camp on duff, camp low, and hike high...  Interpret that as you want.
> 
> You will be lucky to encounter a bear on the PCT.  In all but national parks bears are hunted, and avoid humans like we're the plague.
> 
> Stealth camp in national parks and along the JMT, and camp where you want elsewhere.
> 
> Use snow and leaves instead of TP, and smile a lot...
> 
> Jeff,
> Laramie, WY
> 
> On 1/27/2017 4:45 PM, Brick Robbins wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm not sure I would count "attracted a bear to camp but it didn't try to
>>> steal my food" as a win.
>> Bears have great senses and they are very smart, but they are
>> creatures of habit, just like we are.
>> 
>> If you camp in the same location as other campers habitually do, such
>> as any nice camp site along the trail, then the bears are probably
>> visiting you every night, no matter what you do with your food.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Sat Jan 28 14:37:50 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 12:37:50 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <72619AB5-9A7A-477D-A14C-131E2FF6BB84@att.net>
References: <72619AB5-9A7A-477D-A14C-131E2FF6BB84@att.net>
Message-ID: <a5ea18f3-6394-59ce-f28f-d37fb03e8a3e@marcusschwartz.com>

For what it's worth, on my 2016 thru-hike, I saw literally zero proper
bear hangs.  A few people tried, but seeing a PCT hiker doing a bear
hang of any kind was a rare occurrence.  I saw a couple of determined
hikers do a counterbalance hang just north of Sierra City that was
almost right, but too close to the trunk (the branch wasn't long
enough), and too close to the campsite (about 50 feet).  That was by far
the best one I saw.  So bear bagging is not a common practice on the
PCT, so far as I can tell.

The vast majority of hangs I did see were from weekenders at
heavily-used campsites, with hangs much too low, and tied to the trunk.
I saw one hang that was a plastic shopping bag, tied to a branch by its
handles, about 6 feet off the ground.

I started my hike with the intention of getting some practice with the
Skilman hang, and I carried gear for it the whole way.  But it seems
that the areas with bears are also areas with no trees suitable for
hanging.  For example, in sugar pine forests, with only short,
downward-sloped branches, starting 50 feet off the ground.

I ended up keeping my food in an Opsak, which itself was inside a trash
compactor bag, inside my backpack, in my vestibule.  I was careful to
not drop crumbs, and I had no animal problems throughout the hike.

My sister took the same approach, but was not so careful about dropping
food, and a mouse burrowed into her tent to retrieve some stray
sunflower seeds in northern Washington.  So, I'm guessing that making
sure to not drop food is much more important than hanging your food.
Which makes sense -- it would be easier for an animal to smell food
that's loose on the ground than in an Opsak.

Now, I'm sure my Opsak was not perfectly scentproof -- after any kind of
use, they develop tiny holes.  But, my way of thinking is, while it may
be possible for animals to smell the food inside, it reduces the risk a
whole lot.

 -=Marcus

On 01/27/2017 09:34 AM, Stephen Adams wrote:
> Most simple hangs will keep the little critters at bay.  Not so
> bears.  And in many places, especially in the high country, there
> simply can be no good place to make a decent anti-bear hang.  They
> are really smart, good climbers, tall when they stand up, and really
> strong.  Most lodgepole forest wont offer many good branches high
> enough or strong enough to dissuade a determined bear from getting
> the food stash. A good counter balance is like 16ft off the ground
> and way out on a branch far from the trunk of the tree.  On another
> note...  I've seen parachute cord and small twine dangling from
> branches more than I've seen poor or simply stupid food hangs.  So,
> you not only have to hang the food so hopefully the bears are not
> going to risk injury to get it, and you have to be able to recover it
> yourself. _______________________________________________ Pct-L
> mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options
> visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> 

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sat Jan 28 16:55:40 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 14:55:40 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
In-Reply-To: <741700022.2561138.1485624314368@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <741700022.2561138.1485624314368.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <741700022.2561138.1485624314368@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nzk7k_n1Gesp1jePb7_VPdv=7wPTa+bBxrPstkQ_9TJaOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sabrina,
>
> Lucky for you, and the rest of us, the PCT doesn't go through the desert.
> Maybe a few miles in Section E, and kind of skirts it at Scissor's Crossing.

These sound like "Alternative Facts"

This isn't desert. It is Rain Forest
https://i0.wp.com/clarehikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_3171.jpg

From moodyjj at comcast.net  Sat Jan 28 17:19:58 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 23:19:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <a5ea18f3-6394-59ce-f28f-d37fb03e8a3e@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <72619AB5-9A7A-477D-A14C-131E2FF6BB84@att.net>
 <a5ea18f3-6394-59ce-f28f-d37fb03e8a3e@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <179878468.99405251.1485645598956.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

The crumbs-in-tent possibility brings up an alternate strategy that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread, i.e., stop earlier, cook supper, eat, clean up, pack back up, and walk till you're ready to camp for the night. Besides minimizing food odors and crumbs around your tent, it also make walking till dark easier. You can set up camp much quicker when you've already eaten. If you stop to cook & eat at a water source, you can carry only the water you'll need that night and for breakfast next morning, saving a couple of lbs of weight. This approach wasn't real common on the PCT, but it seems to be done a lot on the CDT. 

Mango 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Town Food" <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> 
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:37:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [pct-l] hanging food 

For what it's worth, on my 2016 thru-hike, I saw literally zero proper 
bear hangs. A few people tried, but seeing a PCT hiker doing a bear 
hang of any kind was a rare occurrence. I saw a couple of determined 
hikers do a counterbalance hang just north of Sierra City that was 
almost right, but too close to the trunk (the branch wasn't long 
enough), and too close to the campsite (about 50 feet). That was by far 
the best one I saw. So bear bagging is not a common practice on the 
PCT, so far as I can tell. 

The vast majority of hangs I did see were from weekenders at 
heavily-used campsites, with hangs much too low, and tied to the trunk. 
I saw one hang that was a plastic shopping bag, tied to a branch by its 
handles, about 6 feet off the ground. 

I started my hike with the intention of getting some practice with the 
Skilman hang, and I carried gear for it the whole way. But it seems 
that the areas with bears are also areas with no trees suitable for 
hanging. For example, in sugar pine forests, with only short, 
downward-sloped branches, starting 50 feet off the ground. 

I ended up keeping my food in an Opsak, which itself was inside a trash 
compactor bag, inside my backpack, in my vestibule. I was careful to 
not drop crumbs, and I had no animal problems throughout the hike. 

My sister took the same approach, but was not so careful about dropping 
food, and a mouse burrowed into her tent to retrieve some stray 
sunflower seeds in northern Washington. So, I'm guessing that making 
sure to not drop food is much more important than hanging your food. 
Which makes sense -- it would be easier for an animal to smell food 
that's loose on the ground than in an Opsak. 

Now, I'm sure my Opsak was not perfectly scentproof -- after any kind of 
use, they develop tiny holes. But, my way of thinking is, while it may 
be possible for animals to smell the food inside, it reduces the risk a 
whole lot. 

-=Marcus 


From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Sat Jan 28 17:29:19 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Marcus Schwartz)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 15:29:19 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <179878468.99405251.1485645598956.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <72619AB5-9A7A-477D-A14C-131E2FF6BB84@att.net>
 <a5ea18f3-6394-59ce-f28f-d37fb03e8a3e@marcusschwartz.com>
 <179878468.99405251.1485645598956.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b316ccb4-9d30-a396-c6f7-afc4ffced6e4@marcusschwartz.com>

I tried this a few times.  It made dinner more pleasant, since it was
warmer and more scenic.  But, it cut down on my distance.  The reason
being, I can do my eating after dark if I do it in camp, whereas dinner
before camp means using daylight hours to eat.

By the end, I was having trail mix for most dinners anyway, so I just
stuck my lips around the opening in the trail mix package, forming a
crumb-proof seal.

 -=Marcus

On 01/28/2017 03:19 PM, Jim & Jane Moody wrote:
> The crumbs-in-tent possibility brings up an alternate strategy that I
> don't think has been mentioned in this thread, i.e., stop earlier,
> cook supper, eat, clean up, pack back up, and walk till you're ready
> to camp for the night. Besides minimizing food odors and crumbs
> around your tent, it also make walking till dark easier. You can set
> up camp much quicker when you've already eaten. If you stop to cook &
> eat at a water source, you can carry only the water you'll need that
> night and for breakfast next morning, saving a couple of lbs of
> weight. This approach wasn't real common on the PCT, but it seems to
> be done a lot on the CDT.
> 
> Mango
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> From: "Town Food" <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> To: "Pct-L"
> <pct-l at backcountry.net> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:37:50 PM 
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] hanging food
> 
> For what it's worth, on my 2016 thru-hike, I saw literally zero
> proper bear hangs. A few people tried, but seeing a PCT hiker doing a
> bear hang of any kind was a rare occurrence. I saw a couple of
> determined hikers do a counterbalance hang just north of Sierra City
> that was almost right, but too close to the trunk (the branch wasn't
> long enough), and too close to the campsite (about 50 feet). That was
> by far the best one I saw. So bear bagging is not a common practice
> on the PCT, so far as I can tell.
> 
> The vast majority of hangs I did see were from weekenders at 
> heavily-used campsites, with hangs much too low, and tied to the
> trunk. I saw one hang that was a plastic shopping bag, tied to a
> branch by its handles, about 6 feet off the ground.
> 
> I started my hike with the intention of getting some practice with
> the Skilman hang, and I carried gear for it the whole way. But it
> seems that the areas with bears are also areas with no trees suitable
> for hanging. For example, in sugar pine forests, with only short, 
> downward-sloped branches, starting 50 feet off the ground.
> 
> I ended up keeping my food in an Opsak, which itself was inside a
> trash compactor bag, inside my backpack, in my vestibule. I was
> careful to not drop crumbs, and I had no animal problems throughout
> the hike.
> 
> My sister took the same approach, but was not so careful about
> dropping food, and a mouse burrowed into her tent to retrieve some
> stray sunflower seeds in northern Washington. So, I'm guessing that
> making sure to not drop food is much more important than hanging your
> food. Which makes sense -- it would be easier for an animal to smell
> food that's loose on the ground than in an Opsak.
> 
> Now, I'm sure my Opsak was not perfectly scentproof -- after any kind
> of use, they develop tiny holes. But, my way of thinking is, while it
> may be possible for animals to smell the food inside, it reduces the
> risk a whole lot.
> 
> -=Marcus
> 
> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list 
> Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> 

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sat Jan 28 17:32:49 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 15:32:49 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <179878468.99405251.1485645598956.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <72619AB5-9A7A-477D-A14C-131E2FF6BB84@att.net>
 <a5ea18f3-6394-59ce-f28f-d37fb03e8a3e@marcusschwartz.com>
 <179878468.99405251.1485645598956.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CALV1NzmVHUv1rcViuJGWaf84JpVVBEfCE0rXyaJ1pCxL5cWqtw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> The crumbs-in-tent possibility brings up an alternate strategy that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread, i.e., stop earlier, cook supper, eat, clean up, pack back up, and walk till you're ready to camp for the night.

I did this for my whole trip. it worked especially well in areas with
limited water, because I would cook and eat at water sources, then
have dry camps. It didn't cut into my miles at all,

From janetgr at cableone.net  Sat Jan 28 17:38:43 2017
From: janetgr at cableone.net (Janet Grossman)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 16:38:43 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NzmVHUv1rcViuJGWaf84JpVVBEfCE0rXyaJ1pCxL5cWqtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72619AB5-9A7A-477D-A14C-131E2FF6BB84@att.net>
 <a5ea18f3-6394-59ce-f28f-d37fb03e8a3e@marcusschwartz.com>
 <179878468.99405251.1485645598956.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
 <CALV1NzmVHUv1rcViuJGWaf84JpVVBEfCE0rXyaJ1pCxL5cWqtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1405c245-27cf-846a-1fc3-4e2203f51ce1@cableone.net>



On 1/28/2017 4:32 PM, Brick Robbins wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
>> The crumbs-in-tent possibility brings up an alternate strategy that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread, i.e., stop earlier, cook supper, eat, clean up, pack back up, and walk till you're ready to camp for the night.
> I did this for my whole trip. it worked especially well in areas with
> limited water, because I would cook and eat at water sources, then
> have dry camps. It didn't cut into my miles at all,
I did this for almost my whole trip too. And as a person with Type 1 
diabetes, it certainly helped avoid the high blood glucose levels I 
would have had if I ate a huge meal and then just sat around.

Rock-Kicker
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>


---
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From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 29 09:49:45 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:49:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
References: <651044439.2850074.1485704985172.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <651044439.2850074.1485704985172@mail.yahoo.com>

Hang a right at Scissor's crossing and in a couple of days you'll know all about desert! :-)

Gary
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 1/28/17, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [pct-l] My first post since 2003
 To: "Gary Schenk" <gary_schenk at yahoo.com>
 Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Saturday, January 28, 2017, 2:55 PM
 
 On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at
 9:25 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 > Sabrina,
 >
 > Lucky for you, and the rest of us, the PCT
 doesn't go through the desert.
 >
 Maybe a few miles in Section E, and kind of skirts it at
 Scissor's Crossing.
 
 These sound like "Alternative
 Facts"
 
 This isn't
 desert. It is Rain Forest
 https://i0.wp.com/clarehikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_3171.jpg
 

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 29 09:54:25 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:54:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
References: <58426556.2873723.1485705265826.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <58426556.2873723.1485705265826@mail.yahoo.com>


On Sat, 1/28/17, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:

 > You will be lucky to
 encounter a bear on the PCT. 
 
 I like to second that. I feel really lucky and
 privileged when I see a bear. Highest chance to run into a
 bear is in the Natonal Parks (Yosemite), near car
 campers..unfortunately.
 
**************************************************************

Lower Vidette Meadows and Charlotte Lakes also provide good chances of seeing a bear.

Gary

From reddirt23 at att.net  Sun Jan 29 11:38:16 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 09:38:16 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
Message-ID: <97506E66-1F70-4CAE-84C4-53D545D3DA76@att.net>

I have seen bear twice just below Vidette, actually had a biggun following me along the Bubbs Creek trail.  Never leave your pack unattended.  Take it with you when you are filtering water, looking around etc...  
Though I have not seen a bear at Vidette lower or upper, I do know of an attack at upper.  USed to know one of the backcountry rangers there out of Charlotte.  Big Dave.  He told me about a Sierra Club group staying there.  They had filled the old metal box and had too much so posted a guard.  Guard fell asleep and got hurt pretty bad. 
They had some pretty aggressive bears in that area and up towards Dusy Branch area over the years.  
They tend to patrol all of Vidette, Kearsarge Onion Valley, Bishop Pass etc... pretty regular.  
You'll probably at least see scat.   

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Sun Jan 29 11:35:35 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 17:35:35 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <97506E66-1F70-4CAE-84C4-53D545D3DA76@att.net>
References: <97506E66-1F70-4CAE-84C4-53D545D3DA76@att.net>
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265903C25843E37AF6C6F17C8480@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

If you are camped along Bubbs Creek,you are on the bear route. At night they head towards the hapless hiker who has not secured their food. I've spent the night throwing rocks at them to keep them out of my camp. Better to not camp there if possible. 
Bear canisters save lives. Yours and the Bears 
I hate the weight too. So what!!! It's your responsibility to secure your food. There are virtually no trees on the trail that make it easy to hang food. It takes time and skill to learn how to properly hang food on trees that don't have "friendly accommodating" limbs. Most food bag hangs I've seem wouldn't stop the most infirm geriatric bear. On some trails--example the GDT,in the provincial parks ---there are bear poles. But you will not find those on the PCT. Some campsites have bear boxes but you can't count on those being the spots where you land at the end of the day. 
Part of learning how to be a long distance hiker is learning how to not do harm out there
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 29, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net> wrote:
> 
> I have seen bear twice just below Vidette, actually had a biggun following me along the Bubbs Creek trail.  Never leave your pack unattended.  Take it with you when you are filtering water, looking around etc...  
> Though I have not seen a bear at Vidette lower or upper, I do know of an attack at upper.  USed to know one of the backcountry rangers there out of Charlotte.  Big Dave.  He told me about a Sierra Club group staying there.  They had filled the old metal box and had too much so posted a guard.  Guard fell asleep and got hurt pretty bad. 
> They had some pretty aggressive bears in that area and up towards Dusy Branch area over the years.  
> They tend to patrol all of Vidette, Kearsarge Onion Valley, Bishop Pass etc... pretty regular.  
> You'll probably at least see scat.   
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From thelyn at icloud.com  Sun Jan 29 11:39:44 2017
From: thelyn at icloud.com (Lyn Turner)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 17:39:44 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR20MB0265903C25843E37AF6C6F17C8480@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <97506E66-1F70-4CAE-84C4-53D545D3DA76@att.net>
 <CY1PR20MB0265903C25843E37AF6C6F17C8480@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <51C7A5E1-04FC-4BF2-A4E4-3250872DD381@icloud.com>

Great post. Absolutely!

L.

Sent from my iThing


> On 29 Jan 2017, at 17:35, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If you are camped along Bubbs Creek,you are on the bear route. At night they head towards the hapless hiker who has not secured their food. I've spent the night throwing rocks at them to keep them out of my camp. Better to not camp there if possible. 
> Bear canisters save lives. Yours and the Bears 
> I hate the weight too. So what!!! It's your responsibility to secure your food. There are virtually no trees on the trail that make it easy to hang food. It takes time and skill to learn how to properly hang food on trees that don't have "friendly accommodating" limbs. Most food bag hangs I've seem wouldn't stop the most infirm geriatric bear. On some trails--example the GDT,in the provincial parks ---there are bear poles. But you will not find those on the PCT. Some campsites have bear boxes but you can't count on those being the spots where you land at the end of the day. 
> Part of learning how to be a long distance hiker is learning how to not do harm out there
> Marmot
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 29, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I have seen bear twice just below Vidette, actually had a biggun following me along the Bubbs Creek trail.  Never leave your pack unattended.  Take it with you when you are filtering water, looking around etc...  
>> Though I have not seen a bear at Vidette lower or upper, I do know of an attack at upper.  USed to know one of the backcountry rangers there out of Charlotte.  Big Dave.  He told me about a Sierra Club group staying there.  They had filled the old metal box and had too much so posted a guard.  Guard fell asleep and got hurt pretty bad. 
>> They had some pretty aggressive bears in that area and up towards Dusy Branch area over the years.  
>> They tend to patrol all of Vidette, Kearsarge Onion Valley, Bishop Pass etc... pretty regular.  
>> You'll probably at least see scat.   
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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From reddirt23 at att.net  Sun Jan 29 12:40:49 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 10:40:49 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
Message-ID: <7FA3895A-38A6-433D-BE36-9E12E66E18BD@att.net>

Thinking about it though, PCT herd season going thru the parks is pretty early on.  Especially this season when there will still be a lot of snow left up high.  I've been up along the PCT during this time a bunch and I'd say chances of actually seeing a bear are pretty slim until later on in July and into Sept.  
For the most part the bear canister solves food and bear safety in most cases.  We used to counter balance and hang, not so anymore.  It's also a bit un-nerving and hard to sleep knowing your food's just out there exposed and blowin in the breeze.  When ever I had food hagin the first thing I looked for when getting up, whatever time, was to check the food.  Can't hear anything either if near running water.  
IF I don't need a canister, I now at least take an Ursack. 

From douglastow at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 12:28:08 2017
From: douglastow at gmail.com (Douglas Tow)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 10:28:08 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bear canisters (2) available
Message-ID: <CAOOqOOvom5QC77fh1Uc1GGF9B9GDWYRvPsYfvsG=nbRF2EBofg@mail.gmail.com>

I have two BV 500 (the large size) bear canisters to lend to overseas
hikers for the 2017 PCT hiking season.

When responders reply, we will discuss how the canisters will reach them,
and how return will be arranged.

If interested, email me at douglastow at gmail.com

Chipmunk

From reddirt23 at att.net  Sun Jan 29 12:49:49 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 10:49:49 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
Message-ID: <90E273D3-1C51-422F-A088-659656A446B4@att.net>

Oh there's plenty of places to properly, or what we used to consider properly hanging food sacks.  But like your comment regarding the old brown bear boxes at places like Vidette, Rae Lakes etc, They create a limited selection of stopping points.  
I dislike having to carry a bongo drum canister too, but it surely does add a certain amount of freedom and added safety, both for bear and human hiker.  IF you saw the hangs we used to make(read counter ballance) you'd wonder how the heck we ever got the food back down.  
There also used to be cables strung in places at popular camps for people to hang food.  More so at stock camps but there was still one along Bubbs ten years ago for one of the old trail crew camps.

From nobohiker at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 17:02:14 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (NoBo Hiker)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 15:02:14 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Powerhouse Fire Closure
In-Reply-To: <01e201d2773d$563c2ba0$02b482e0$@tungate.com>
References: <B2AB182D-D9B4-4861-8132-DB3F61DB5F8C@gmail.com>
 <367E820A-EB0A-480F-83BC-74D895259BD3@gmail.com>
 <01e201d2773d$563c2ba0$02b482e0$@tungate.com>
Message-ID: <7BAA895A-843C-400F-A4DF-A6A57BC41CD4@gmail.com>

Hi Mel,

I think I speak for everyone on this list here: THANK YOU for your and the Trail Gorillas hard work - it is very much appreciated!

I am glad to hear that great progress has been made. I called the Forest Service last week asking for a formal opening date but that is not known yet  - I was promised to receive a call back once more is known.

Fingers crossed!

Rick


> On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:00 AM, Mel Tungate <mel at tungate.com> wrote:
> 
> The PCT is closed from mile 478.2 at San Francisquito Canyon Rd. north to approximately mile 492.  Agua Dulce is at 454.  So, you can stay with Donna, walk 24 miles north, and stay with the Andersons ( if they both are open ).
> 
> The closed section has had an extensive amount of work ( I was part of the many many work crews of what is called the Trail Gorillas ).  The trail in the closed section has been extensively rebuilt and cleaned up for all 14 miles.  We ( they ) were close to saying it was ready - only a few sections need minor attention.   The closed trail has been inspected after our hard rains ( and snow at the PCT level ), and a work crew is going out this weekend.   Any additional rain / snow might put it off for a few weeks.  
> 
> The crews for part of the cleanup were joined by a trail machine - basically a small bobcat.  That makes everything move very quickly.  
> 
> If you want my guess, probably early this year.  But, I am a long way away from the chain of command.  I am just a gorilla.  My guess is just a guess.
> 
> I have to drive 250 miles to get there, so I have only been there a few times.
> 
> So, stay tuned.
> 
> When the section from 478 to 492 is too snowed in, the gorillas cleaned the trail from 454 to 478, and also from 492 to 518.  We relocated one small section, repaired multiple washed out sections, and just cleaned up the path in other places.  Those sections have remained open.  In addition, there is one hiker that goes out to those sections and works on his own almost every weekend until it gets too hot.  
> 
> Mel
> 
>> On Jan 24, 2017, at 10:48 PM, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi PCT-L,
>> 
>> I have been waiting for a couple of years so I can hike the section north of Agua Dulce, CA and I am hoping to hike it this year, but the section is still listed as closed. Does anyone know more about the potential opening? I?ll probably call the Forest Service to find out more, but thought I might ask PCT-L first
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Section Hiker Rick
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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From bh.csuchico at gmail.com  Sun Jan 29 23:04:58 2017
From: bh.csuchico at gmail.com (be hope)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 21:04:58 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR20MB0265903C25843E37AF6C6F17C8480@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <97506E66-1F70-4CAE-84C4-53D545D3DA76@att.net>
 <CY1PR20MB0265903C25843E37AF6C6F17C8480@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAPWAYrqEDhbaaR18T3jaoRE9HyHyvE+w3w8ZgmnVvwwZ9up6vA@mail.gmail.com>

There is a bear pole on the PCT in Northern Cascades National Park at the
very nice Six Mile camp.

 some trails--example the GDT,in the provincial parks ---there are bear
> poles. But you will not find those on the PCT. Some campsites have bear
> boxes but you can't count on those being the spots where you land at the
> end of.

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 30 10:29:37 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 16:29:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
References: <1324378349.3416242.1485793777708.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1324378349.3416242.1485793777708@mail.yahoo.com>


On Fri, 1/27/17, Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net> wrote:

 
 Simply hanging your food and knowing
 how to hang it or counter balance it are two different
 things.? 
 I've seen food hanging in the Sierra where folks simply have
 a food sack hanging from a not very high branch many
 times.? Any bear patrolling would have easily got the
 sacks.? Counter balancing is a whole other program that
 requires some practice and on the sight ingenuity.? 
 _______________________________________________
 
The bears in the parks are not stopped by even the most perfect counter balance. I've seen it.

Gary

From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 12:41:24 2017
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 10:41:24 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Kahtoola Microspikes vs Hillsound Trail Crampon Ultra
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM0iHXAsWBQQRFsSVry6feck3Ch2=LrBDNY=yhzytP3sbA@mail.gmail.com>

Most people I have talked to have used Microspikes.  I was wondering if
anyone has any experience with Trail Crampon Ultra?  The two are very
similar in design and price.  The major design difference being that the
Trail Crampon Ultra has an extra Velcro strap across the top f the foot.

For size 11.5 trail runners the Microspikes weigh 13.1 oz and Trail Crampon
Ultra weight 14.9 oz so Microspikes are almost 2 oz lighter.

As for the spikes Microspikes have twelve 3/8" spikes were as the Trail
Crampon Ultra have eighteen raging from 2/5" to 1/2".   The longer ones at
the back.

All and all the two systems are very similar.  What I want to know is:

How well do they work while backpacking?

Which is more durable?

Does one clog more then that other?

The Ravens
PCT '96, '15

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Jan 30 13:06:39 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:06:39 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] Re: River Crossing
In-Reply-To: <o6j35q+1smhk83@YahooGroups.com>
References: <CACjKEAGkmFOrMxcy783MeuMLsMJ_V4N_0TZMuRSGSk+_VSrA+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <o6j35q+1smhk83@YahooGroups.com>
Message-ID: <6af201d27b2b$fcef7f50$f6ce7df0$@mountaineducation.org>

Not a bad video on creek crossings, but I have to differ with a few of his points, based on the fact that he had a light pack and only one pole,

 

1.	With a single pole, I would use the tripod technique he?s talking about, but realize that in faster moving creeks, every time you lift a foot, putting you on only two points of contact and, thus, off balance, that lifted foot can be pushed downstream and onto a footing you?re not prepared to land on, thus causing a fall in the worst part of the crossing! Consider always taking two poles or using that branch as a second pole before crossing. In swift currents, even the quick placements of your pole may not land on a good surface, maybe even hitting and sliding off a hidden rock, and throw you off balance in Sierra creeks.
2.	Crossing while facing upstream makes you side-step through the rocks, not the easiest way to hunt-and-seek for sound, firm foot placement among small boulders and slippery rocks.
3.	Crossing while facing upstream makes you lean heavily on your pole so you?re balanced against the push of the current because your feet are side-by-side. If your pole is a twist-lock, it can suddenly compress and you?ll face-plant in the creek. (Even with lever-locks, make sure the locks are tight before crossing!)
4.	Crossing facing the opposite bank with two poles is much safer as you always have three points of contact, even while moving one foot, your downstream leg opposes the push of the current against your upstream thigh, you can easily shuffle your foot forward while leading with your toes, hunting and seeking by feel (in most currents you can?t see where you?re putting your feet) for the best foot placement among the rocks, and you can better resist the current and aim to where you want to ramp out of the water on the opposite bank.
5.	With a light pack, I would unbuckle the waist belt. With a top-heavy pack, I would not as I want to control where the pack is moving. If it is loose at the waist and I commonly tilt my upper body while maneuvering around some awkward underwater object, my upper body can be pulled over by the leaning pack and down I?ll go. 
6.	I want to underscore his recommendations to always use creek crossing shoes, to first search for a wide and shallow spot to cross, to consider the run-out should you go down, and not to cross alone, if you have the choice.

 

Carrying two poles changes the whole approach to the crossing.

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

 <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org> ned at mountaineducation.org 

 

From: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:52 PM
To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: River Crossing

 

  

I came across this video:

Backpacking - How to ford a river with John E. Hiker <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XbRRD6zewk> 

	
	
 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XbRRD6zewk> 

	 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XbRRD6zewk> Backpacking - How to ford a river with John E. Hiker 

John E Hiker shows how to safely ford a river in the wilderness.

	


 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XbRRD6zewk> View on www.youtube.com 

Preview by Yahoo 

	
						

 



Are the rivers on the JMT in early - mid july similar, or can I expect deeper and faster currents?

Thank you kindly,
datadan

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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Jan 30 13:22:16 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:22:16 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] hanging food
In-Reply-To: <7FA3895A-38A6-433D-BE36-9E12E66E18BD@att.net>
References: <7FA3895A-38A6-433D-BE36-9E12E66E18BD@att.net>
Message-ID: <6b7801d27b2e$2b4a08f0$81de1ad0$@mountaineducation.org>

Actually, we commonly see bear tracks in May and June on the PCT down near
Cottonwood Pass every year...


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Stephen
Adams
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:41 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] hanging food

Thinking about it though, PCT herd season going thru the parks is pretty
early on.  Especially this season when there will still be a lot of snow
left up high.  I've been up along the PCT during this time a bunch and I'd
say chances of actually seeing a bear are pretty slim until later on in July
and into Sept.  
For the most part the bear canister solves food and bear safety in most
cases.  We used to counter balance and hang, not so anymore.  It's also a
bit un-nerving and hard to sleep knowing your food's just out there exposed
and blowin in the breeze.  When ever I had food hagin the first thing I
looked for when getting up, whatever time, was to check the food.  Can't
hear anything either if near running water.  
IF I don't need a canister, I now at least take an Ursack. 
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Jan 30 13:56:21 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:56:21 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Kahtoola Microspikes vs Hillsound Trail Crampon Ultra
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM0iHXAsWBQQRFsSVry6feck3Ch2=LrBDNY=yhzytP3sbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD3yqM0iHXAsWBQQRFsSVry6feck3Ch2=LrBDNY=yhzytP3sbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6cf701d27b32$ee257860$ca706920$@mountaineducation.org>

Tim, 

The problem with roll-off is intrinsic with chain designs and isn't solved
by a metatarsil strap or weaving the rubber band into your shoe lacing. 

What happens on steep traverses, where this problem occurs is
- the teeth of the design grab while the soft shoe flattens to the incline
- the rubber band slides sideways to where the rubber hits the snow and the
teeth are no longer involved enough in holding you to the slope
- you don't have sharp edges on your soles to "edge" into the hill

...so you're suddenly made aware that you're gong to go down unless you kick
footing platforms for each step. A good thing to do, of course!

Chain designs were never meant for steep traverses. 

Mountain Education has a lot of written material on this very subject on
both its Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/mountaineducation/ and under
the "Resources" tab on its school website
http://mountaineducation.org/library/articles/ 

For your over-snow safety this summer, please consider hiking crampons,
instead. http://kahtoola.com/products/hiking-crampons/ 

However, if you will not be walking out of the boot track in the snow, chain
designs will work just fine!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Tim Umstead
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:41 AM
To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Kahtoola Microspikes vs Hillsound Trail Crampon Ultra

Most people I have talked to have used Microspikes.  I was wondering if
anyone has any experience with Trail Crampon Ultra?  The two are very
similar in design and price.  The major design difference being that the
Trail Crampon Ultra has an extra Velcro strap across the top f the foot.

For size 11.5 trail runners the Microspikes weigh 13.1 oz and Trail Crampon
Ultra weight 14.9 oz so Microspikes are almost 2 oz lighter.

As for the spikes Microspikes have twelve 3/8" spikes were as the Trail
Crampon Ultra have eighteen raging from 2/5" to 1/2".   The longer ones at
the back.

All and all the two systems are very similar.  What I want to know is:

How well do they work while backpacking?

Which is more durable?

Does one clog more then that other?

The Ravens
PCT '96, '15
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
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http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From tcantor33 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 13:28:53 2017
From: tcantor33 at gmail.com (Todd Cantor)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 11:28:53 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] April 2017 Thru-Hike
Message-ID: <F9E8F248-2B02-4EE0-9A45-AD0C01204D57@gmail.com>

Greetings All,

Looking forward to an April 2nd departure date and planning for an interesting season. As a long time So. Cal (San Diego) resident I am watching the weather and clearly the early season has been eventful and a huge blessing for the state. Still vacillating on a flip of Nor-Cal/Oregon and Sierra due to a previously planned two week International trip in August that cannot be rescheduled, but at 48 I have spent plenty of time in the backcountry chasing Sierra rock climbing targets in the 5.FUN to 5.10+ range I am sending the gear for the Sierra to KM with full knowledge of the subjective risks of an early start into the Sierra?s (Late May/Early June). Snow travel is not as great a worry as the crossings so I am considering bringing some extra long cordage and some ?biners to protect waist/low torso water level crossings but will be looking for fellow experienced hikers/climbers to work through the early season Sierra challenges. Solo in high water is not only dangerous, it could turn fatal with the simplest mistake. In any case, I am taking a wait and see approach and preparing to be equipped for either scenario. Looking forward to seeing fellow thru-hikers out there. At 48 I am not as fast as I used to be but experience with objective challenges leaves me cautiously and optimistically prepared for whatever we find out there.

On a different topic with a considerable upside, I can attest (first hand) to the fact that if we continue to get rain in So. Cal in Feb and some in March, the border thru at least Big Bear will be ALIVE with the bounty of So. Cal desert wildflowers, which for those that have not experienced this phenomena in the Sonoran (Anza-Borrego) and Mojave in the spring is an AMAZING and joyful experience. 

Safe travels to all in getting to and on the trail. For those departing before or around April 2nd I can assist with a ride to the trailhead just reach out to me by email or reply to this post and we can work it out.

Cheers,
Todd


From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 30 21:13:15 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 03:13:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Kahtoola Microspikes vs Hillsound Trail Crampon Ultra
References: <1769040120.260994.1485832395239.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1769040120.260994.1485832395239@mail.yahoo.com>

If you are worried about snow, why buy some cheap imitation that will roll off your foot when you can get the real thing for about the same weight?
http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/crampons/12-air_tech_light?binding=3

Gary
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/30/17, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [pct-l] Kahtoola Microspikes vs Hillsound Trail Crampon Ultra
 To: "PCT-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 10:41 AM
 
 Most people I have talked to have
 used Microspikes.? I was wondering if
 anyone has any experience with Trail Crampon Ultra??
 The two are very
 similar in design and price.? The major design
 difference being that the
 Trail Crampon Ultra has an extra Velcro strap across the top
 f the foot.
 
 For size 11.5 trail runners the Microspikes weigh 13.1 oz
 and Trail Crampon
 Ultra weight 14.9 oz so Microspikes are almost 2 oz
 lighter.
 
 As for the spikes Microspikes have twelve 3/8" spikes were
 as the Trail
 Crampon Ultra have eighteen raging from 2/5" to
 1/2".???The longer ones at
 the back.
 
 All and all the two systems are very similar.? What I
 want to know is:
 
 How well do they work while backpacking?
 
 Which is more durable?
 
 Does one clog more then that other?
 
 The Ravens
 PCT '96, '15
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Tue Jan 31 11:29:18 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:29:18 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Kahtoola Microspikes vs Hillsound Trail Crampon Ultra
In-Reply-To: <1769040120.260994.1485832395239@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1769040120.260994.1485832395239.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1769040120.260994.1485832395239@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <72b901d27be7$8dc622c0$a9526840$@mountaineducation.org>

Chain designs have their time and place and those are on the flats and straight up and down grades. Even Kahtoola states that their Microspikes were never designed nor intended for steep snow traverses. They have Hiking Crampons for that. Chain-designed traction devices work well in flat-bottomed boot-tracks, though! So, as long as you have a "trail" in the snow or boot-track to follow, you can feel that you have sufficient grip on the snow to prevent falls by using chain designs.

Gary makes the point for the best tool for the job, but snow hikers are not ice climbers nor mountaineers, off-trail on steep, variable surfaces and pitches, so the Grivel 12-point crampon is not the right tool for their job, snow-hiking. 

The primary difference between Hiking and climbing crampons lies in two details, the flexibility of the frame to accommodate boot metatarsil flex and the forward points.

Forward points are great when toeing straight up hard or frozen surfaces, but snow hikers won't be doing that. Forward points can puncture or seriously lacerate the opposite leg when used for walking instead of climbing. Snow hikers walk and traverse more than climb, so 12 points are not the right tool for their job. That is why Kahtoola came up with hiking crampons.

So, if you want to make your own routes over snow and foresee yourself cruising across sometimes steep grades of morning-hardened snow, your tool of choice would be the hiking crampon. 

Using the wrong tool for the job always involves compromises and sometimes that decision leads to a dangerous one....

Most of my SAR patients usually said, "Well, one oversight led to another and here I am!"


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Gary Schenk
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 7:13 PM
To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Kahtoola Microspikes vs Hillsound Trail Crampon Ultra

If you are worried about snow, why buy some cheap imitation that will roll off your foot when you can get the real thing for about the same weight?
http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/crampons/12-air_tech_light?binding=3

Gary
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/30/17, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [pct-l] Kahtoola Microspikes vs Hillsound Trail Crampon Ultra
 To: "PCT-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 10:41 AM
 
 Most people I have talked to have
 used Microspikes.  I was wondering if
 anyone has any experience with Trail Crampon Ultra?  The two are very  similar in design and price.  The major design  difference being that the  Trail Crampon Ultra has an extra Velcro strap across the top  f the foot.
 
 For size 11.5 trail runners the Microspikes weigh 13.1 oz  and Trail Crampon  Ultra weight 14.9 oz so Microspikes are almost 2 oz  lighter.
 
 As for the spikes Microspikes have twelve 3/8" spikes were  as the Trail  Crampon Ultra have eighteen raging from 2/5" to  1/2".   The longer ones at  the back.
 
 All and all the two systems are very similar.  What I  want to know is:
 
 How well do they work while backpacking?
 
 Which is more durable?
 
 Does one clog more then that other?
 
 The Ravens
 PCT '96, '15
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
 
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Tue Jan 31 12:05:56 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:05:56 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] River Crossing
In-Reply-To: <o6qfii+1o924pl@YahooGroups.com>
References: <255463920.1998825.1485801430462.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <255463920.1998825.1485801430462@mail.yahoo.com>
 <0EE82C9C-A21F-4A63-A7DA-633D811DFB87@yahoo.com>
 <6ce101d27b31$ba40ab60$2ec20220$@mountaineducation.org>
 <585A6F95-25B4-415F-8332-01F4F3145CB8@yahoo.com>
 <CABr5Ysper1Cgt4NULFW_BYaSRR6d80auGHvkh-ShJqu7T9KA0Q@mail.gmail.com>	<722a01d27bda$cffbac30$6ff30490$@mountaineducation.org>
 <o6qfii+1o924pl@YahooGroups.com>
Message-ID: <738601d27bec$ab8564b0$02902e10$@mountaineducation.org>

Well said, Charlie!

 

Here is the problem with that idea from a design and practical function point of view:

 

It?s the way chains or hiking crampons mount on trail runners. When you put either on edge, what does the bitting into the snow slope when the teeth are so far from the edge of the shoe?

 

The edge of the shoe and not so much the teeth! There are two reasons why trail runners do not reliably hold to the slope even with chains or hiking crampons on, soft edges and distant teeth. Chain rolling or drifting just further exacerbates this problem by allowing the teeth to move further away from the edge of the shoe (that can?t hold an edge anyway).

 

Hey, all of you designer-engineers out there, make a laterally adjustable hiking crampon so the user can slide the teeth out to the side of their chosen footwear!

 

Hell, Mountain Education should make one (along with the pack and tent designs it?s already working on!)?

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

 <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org> ned at mountaineducation.org 

 

From: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of charliepolecat
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 8:56 AM
To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] River Crossing

 

  

There is no question that boots are better for gripping in soft or hard-packed snow than trail runners, but in these days of fast-packing where the aim has become to cover 20 miles a day with not much more than a super day-pack for supplies, carrying a spare set of heavy boots for the 'just in case' situation just isn't on.

What's required is some kind of add-on to trail runners than will provide all the side traction that Ned wisely advises without losing the benefit of soft shoes and not having to lug those grandad boots for the what if situation.

__._,_.___


 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/conversations/messages/63717;_ylc=X3oDMTJxbXJxY3A3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUzMzQ3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MTY2BG1zZ0lkAzYzNzE3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQ4NTg4MTc0OA--?act=reply&messageNum=63717> Reply via web post 

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  _____  

  <https://s.yimg.com/ru/static/images/yg/img/megaphone/1464031581_phpFA8bON> 

 <https://yho.com/1wwmgg> Have you tried the highest rated email app? 

With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

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Please strip out replied-to text if not necessary to your reply.  Just select the unnecessary text and delete it. Failure to strip makes it hard for our Daily Digest members to find the new postings among the repeats. For the crib sheet to take on JMT: http://climber.org/data/JMTCribSheet.pdf or http://bit.ly/JMTcribsheet - Prints on 1 sheet all the essential phone numbers/addresses you&#39;ll want for all services needed on or off the trail. Update or view our member databases about packer-cost sharing, cell reception on the JMT, or see who else will be hiking the JMT when you do--all at http://tinyurl.com/JMT-DBs . We encourage all to join the JohnMuirTrail_Sidebar Yahoo Group, just send a blank email to:
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Tue Jan 31 12:57:24 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:57:24 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] River Crossing
In-Reply-To: <CAAW2vrbphWh1joestsg0YDviBEp1RVQyfSqZ79-NbsctsE4bnA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <255463920.1998825.1485801430462.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <255463920.1998825.1485801430462@mail.yahoo.com>
 <0EE82C9C-A21F-4A63-A7DA-633D811DFB87@yahoo.com>
 <6ce101d27b31$ba40ab60$2ec20220$@mountaineducation.org>
 <585A6F95-25B4-415F-8332-01F4F3145CB8@yahoo.com>
 <CABr5Ysper1Cgt4NULFW_BYaSRR6d80auGHvkh-ShJqu7T9KA0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <722a01d27bda$cffbac30$6ff30490$@mountaineducation.org>
 <o6qfii+1o924pl@YahooGroups.com>
 <738601d27bec$ab8564b0$02902e10$@mountaineducation.org>
 <CAAW2vrbphWh1joestsg0YDviBEp1RVQyfSqZ79-NbsctsE4bnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <759d01d27bf3$dd17f590$9747e0b0$@mountaineducation.org>

Hey, Roleigh!

 

You?ve got to join me on one of our Snow Advanced Courses up Whit and over Forester so we can test our shoe?s abilities side-by-side on the same slope!

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

 <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org> ned at mountaineducation.org 

 

From: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 10:15 AM
To: John Muir Trail YahooGroups <johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] River Crossing

 

  

I want to give a mid-way counterpoint.  I've done the JMT 9 times now, and before that the High Sierra Trail 8 times.  Ned and John prefer those 3-4 pound (pair) of boots even in good weather hiking.  The Keen Mid-height Targhee boots John refers to, those I wore on 6 JMT hikes (including 2010 and 2011 JMTs). Those heels are very stiff and they bite down fine in the snow except when it is very ice-covered and hard.  If the conditions warrant, bring the Trail Crampons Ned recommends along with boots like the Targhee, and I can't imagine any problems that you'll encounter that you wouldn't have the same problem with the 3-4 pound (pair) of boots.  The Keen mid-height Targhee boots weigh only 1 lb per boot.  I now prefer the Lowa Renegade GTX boots.  I found that the Keen boots are not as comfortable as the Lowa boots.  I tried hiking with the heavier Lowa boots and just don't like them.  

 

Ned has convinced me that the Kahtoola Trail Crampons are superior to the Hillsound Trail Crampons if you are breaking trail on those high passes in high snowpack (compacted) conditions.




-------------------------------------------------
Visit my Google Profile <https://plus.google.com/+RoleighMartin/about/>  (lots of very interesting research links)
_

 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:05 AM, ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com <mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com> > wrote:

  

Well said, Charlie!

 

Here is the problem with that idea from a design and practical function point of view:

 

It?s the way chains or hiking crampons mount on trail runners. When you put either on edge, what does the bitting into the snow slope when the teeth are so far from the edge of the shoe?

 

The edge of the shoe and not so much the teeth! There are two reasons why trail runners do not reliably hold to the slope even with chains or hiking crampons on, soft edges and distant teeth. Chain rolling or drifting just further exacerbates this problem by allowing the teeth to move further away from the edge of the shoe (that can?t hold an edge anyway).

 

Hey, all of you designer-engineers out there, make a laterally adjustable hiking crampon so the user can slide the teeth out to the side of their chosen footwear!

 

Hell, Mountain Education should make one (along with the pack and tent designs it?s already working on!)?

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

 <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org> ned at mountaineducation.org 

 

From: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com <mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com <mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of charliepolecat
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 8:56 AM
To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com <mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] River Crossing

 

  

There is no question that boots are better for gripping in soft or hard-packed snow than trail runners, but in these days of fast-packing where the aim has become to cover 20 miles a day with not much more than a super day-pack for supplies, carrying a spare set of heavy boots for the 'just in case' situation just isn't on.

What's required is some kind of add-on to trail runners than will provide all the side traction that Ned wisely advises without losing the benefit of soft shoes and not having to lug those grandad boots for the what if situation.

 

__._,_.___

  _____  

Posted by: Roleigh Martin <roleigh at pobox.com <mailto:roleigh at pobox.com> > 

  _____  


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Please strip out replied-to text if not necessary to your reply.  Just select the unnecessary text and delete it. Failure to strip makes it hard for our Daily Digest members to find the new postings among the repeats. For the crib sheet to take on JMT: http://climber.org/data/JMTCribSheet.pdf or http://bit.ly/JMTcribsheet - Prints on 1 sheet all the essential phone numbers/addresses you&#39;ll want for all services needed on or off the trail. Update or view our member databases about packer-cost sharing, cell reception on the JMT, or see who else will be hiking the JMT when you do--all at http://tinyurl.com/JMT-DBs . We encourage all to join the JohnMuirTrail_Sidebar Yahoo Group, just send a blank email to:
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From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 31 13:39:48 2017
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 19:39:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] April 2017 Thru Hike
References: <824593849.1059151.1485891588219.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <824593849.1059151.1485891588219@mail.yahoo.com>

Todd wrote:"Still vacillating on a flip of Nor-Cal/Oregon and Sierra due to a previously planned two week International trip in August that cannot be rescheduled...."
Reply:My 2 cents......
Stop vacillating.? Flipping away from the Sierra is not likely to be an option this year - it isn't 2005 where the PNW had practically no snow, with Cali with heavy snow.? There will probably be no place to flip "to" given how the conditions are shaping up.? The further north you go, the lower the snow level is (and will be at a given time in June / July).? The only reason the trail up by Tahoe and points north is melted out for a thru hiker is that it has weeks more to do so, relative to the High Sierra Passes.? Lots of people tried to flip away from the snow my year, due to the high snow - I didn't hear of one that found it successful, most likely since there was no snow free place (of any significant length) to flip to from Kennedy Meadow in early to mid June.? 

One of the other challenges to flipping from high Sierra Snow to points north is navigation.? Up high, you're above treeline.? It's easy to see where you're going.? Forrest navigation in the snow is more challenging.

Early starts will give you control of when you enter the Sierra.? It's easy to slow down and take more zero's to delay when you get to KM.? You don't have to go when you get there.? Monitor the snow conditions via such sites as Postholer, starting from as early as Idyllwild, and adjust your rate of progress accordingly.? If the spring melt is delayed and / or it keeps snowing through mid April (like it did my year) then zero early and zero often and take extra days to cover each section to push back your KM date appropriately.? If the snow quits late March and its a warm spring....push on.

From reddirt23 at att.net  Tue Jan 31 14:10:10 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 12:10:10 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Kahtoola Microspikes vs Hillsound Trail Crampon Ultra
Message-ID: <647620B3-2F73-47DB-B9B5-A6F342D5CFE0@att.net>

Ned, you might want to add(although  I know you'll get to it) that real crampons are designed for quite ridged boots.  Even trying to toe (front point) on a serious slope would be sketchy without the proper support.  Most mountaineering boots are extremely stiff.  Few "backpacking" boots are designed to support a real mountaineering crampon.