From tcantor33 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 15:00:54 2017
From: tcantor33 at gmail.com (Todd Cantor)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 13:00:54 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] April 2017 Thru Hike
In-Reply-To: <824593849.1059151.1485891588219@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <824593849.1059151.1485891588219.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <824593849.1059151.1485891588219@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <987F4B20-EA29-4EC5-9946-E3B83E1F96AB@gmail.com>

HI Barry,

All valid points. I am picking up snowshoes, mountain gaiters, an axe and a GPS at KM. My challenge is timing. I have a trip planned in early August that is going to take me off trail for two weeks. I do not want to end up in the North Cascades (an area in which I have rock climbed a few things) too late. Again, with snow shoes and a GPS I am less worried about mountaineering in the Cascades in October as the big avalanche inducing dumps typically come a little later than October, but you never know. Snow changes the experience, but in my mind that is not always a bad thing, unless say you get pinned down for a week and then have to deal with more than say 4 feet of freshies. In that case, I would opt for skis and skins.

As far as Nor Cal. goes you are spot on. I have a friend who lives in Redding who has already given me some Beta on the snow conditions as of this week. If we continue to get snow through March\April well, it will be a snow year. Such is life. I think the biggest concern I have is that I am hiking solo, at least initially and most of my solid partners for climbing/mountaineering are unable to to take the time off to join me for the entire Sierra. Faith and fate may intervene on the trail as far as a solid partner or team is concerned and that would be great

As far as So. Cal goes. I live in San Diego and have been hiking and climbing in the San Jacinto and San Bernardino Mountains for 20 years. San Jacinto and San Gorgonio are my training peaks for the Sierra and I have almost climbed out the classic rock routes from 5.6 to 5.10+ from Lone Pine to Bridgeport so I am not a stranger to a variety of conditions in most of the Southern and Central Sierra.

I?ll be headed up to San Jacinto mid March to take a run up Deer Springs or Devil?s Slide to assess conditions, particularly on Fuller Ridge as there are some spots up high that do not get a whole lot of sun, but are also not part of the "official" PCT. I am expecting and planning for some snow and some degree of ice in So. Cal.

Given how early it is right now it is hard to say, but a lot of it will be a ?game time call?.

Thanks for the feedback!!! Much appreciated. 

-Todd


> On Jan 31, 2017, at 11:39 AM, Barry Teschlog <tokencivilian at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Todd wrote:"Still vacillating on a flip of Nor-Cal/Oregon and Sierra due to a previously planned two week International trip in August that cannot be rescheduled...."
> Reply:My 2 cents......
> Stop vacillating.  Flipping away from the Sierra is not likely to be an option this year - it isn't 2005 where the PNW had practically no snow, with Cali with heavy snow.  There will probably be no place to flip "to" given how the conditions are shaping up.  The further north you go, the lower the snow level is (and will be at a given time in June / July).  The only reason the trail up by Tahoe and points north is melted out for a thru hiker is that it has weeks more to do so, relative to the High Sierra Passes.  Lots of people tried to flip away from the snow my year, due to the high snow - I didn't hear of one that found it successful, most likely since there was no snow free place (of any significant length) to flip to from Kennedy Meadow in early to mid June.  
> 
> One of the other challenges to flipping from high Sierra Snow to points north is navigation.  Up high, you're above treeline.  It's easy to see where you're going.  Forrest navigation in the snow is more challenging.
> 
> Early starts will give you control of when you enter the Sierra.  It's easy to slow down and take more zero's to delay when you get to KM.  You don't have to go when you get there.  Monitor the snow conditions via such sites as Postholer, starting from as early as Idyllwild, and adjust your rate of progress accordingly.  If the spring melt is delayed and / or it keeps snowing through mid April (like it did my year) then zero early and zero often and take extra days to cover each section to push back your KM date appropriately.  If the snow quits late March and its a warm spring....push on.
> _______________________________________________
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From brick at brickrobbins.com  Wed Feb  1 16:59:41 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 14:59:41 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] April 2017 Thru Hike
In-Reply-To: <987F4B20-EA29-4EC5-9946-E3B83E1F96AB@gmail.com>
References: <824593849.1059151.1485891588219.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <824593849.1059151.1485891588219@mail.yahoo.com>
 <987F4B20-EA29-4EC5-9946-E3B83E1F96AB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NzkeLwtdhA1z4TYg9EGxe2w8jhYjgki2LEmFBzsegfZp_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Todd Cantor <tcantor33 at gmail.com> wrote:
> All valid points. I am picking up snowshoes, mountain gaiters, an axe and a GPS at KM.

Showshoes will be unused dead weight in the Sierra for an April start.
You will be walking on consolidated snow. Any fresh snow will be a
small enough quantity that you won't need snowshoes. Sun-cups and
postholing will be your issues, not fluffy powder. Your real issue
will be the creek crossings.

Unless you have decided on a road walk from Idyllwild to Black
Mountain Campground, and also skipping Baden Powell, I would pick up
your ice axe in Idyllwild. If the trail is open between Hwy 74 and
Tahquitz Peak I would pick it up in Anza. If you don't want to carry
it across the desert, mail it to KM from Agua Dulce.

HYOH, YMMV
Have fun

From olthof.samantha at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 17:50:16 2017
From: olthof.samantha at gmail.com (Samantha O)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2017 23:50:16 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] April 2017 Thru Hike
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NzkeLwtdhA1z4TYg9EGxe2w8jhYjgki2LEmFBzsegfZp_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <824593849.1059151.1485891588219.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <824593849.1059151.1485891588219@mail.yahoo.com>
 <987F4B20-EA29-4EC5-9946-E3B83E1F96AB@gmail.com>
 <CALV1NzkeLwtdhA1z4TYg9EGxe2w8jhYjgki2LEmFBzsegfZp_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP7zcWYQbaxJ_MxjNzAv0vkac3nnBAnvxH-nm32TDq0LYHjO6g@mail.gmail.com>

What are sun cups?

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017, 6:00 PM Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Todd Cantor <tcantor33 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > All valid points. I am picking up snowshoes, mountain gaiters, an axe
> and a GPS at KM.
>
> Showshoes will be unused dead weight in the Sierra for an April start.
> You will be walking on consolidated snow. Any fresh snow will be a
> small enough quantity that you won't need snowshoes. Sun-cups and
> postholing will be your issues, not fluffy powder. Your real issue
> will be the creek crossings.
>
> Unless you have decided on a road walk from Idyllwild to Black
> Mountain Campground, and also skipping Baden Powell, I would pick up
> your ice axe in Idyllwild. If the trail is open between Hwy 74 and
> Tahquitz Peak I would pick it up in Anza. If you don't want to carry
> it across the desert, mail it to KM from Agua Dulce.
>
> HYOH, YMMV
> Have fun
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From sbryce at scottbryce.com  Wed Feb  1 18:12:11 2017
From: sbryce at scottbryce.com (Scott Bryce)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 17:12:11 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] April 2017 Thru Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAP7zcWYQbaxJ_MxjNzAv0vkac3nnBAnvxH-nm32TDq0LYHjO6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <824593849.1059151.1485891588219.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <824593849.1059151.1485891588219@mail.yahoo.com>
 <987F4B20-EA29-4EC5-9946-E3B83E1F96AB@gmail.com>
 <CALV1NzkeLwtdhA1z4TYg9EGxe2w8jhYjgki2LEmFBzsegfZp_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAP7zcWYQbaxJ_MxjNzAv0vkac3nnBAnvxH-nm32TDq0LYHjO6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eac16d46-2fcf-e372-bdbd-7c39ec414650@scottbryce.com>

On 2/1/2017 4:50 PM, Samantha O wrote:
> What are sun cups?


Uneven surface of snow resembling a giant egg carton. As the snow melts
in the spring, pockets of water form on the surface of the snow. This
water warms up in the sun and causes the snow under it to melt faster
than the surrounding snow. The resulting uneven surface is difficult to
walk on.

https://plus.google.com/photos/105056165416456945672/albums/5084997546028256193/5085000114418700002

https://plus.google.com/photos/105056165416456945672/albums/5084997546028256193/5085000148778438386

https://plus.google.com/photos/105056165416456945672/albums/5084997546028256193/5085000221792882434

From tcantor33 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  1 21:03:00 2017
From: tcantor33 at gmail.com (Todd Cantor)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 19:03:00 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] April 2017 Thru Hike
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NzkeLwtdhA1z4TYg9EGxe2w8jhYjgki2LEmFBzsegfZp_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <824593849.1059151.1485891588219.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <824593849.1059151.1485891588219@mail.yahoo.com>
 <987F4B20-EA29-4EC5-9946-E3B83E1F96AB@gmail.com>
 <CALV1NzkeLwtdhA1z4TYg9EGxe2w8jhYjgki2LEmFBzsegfZp_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36D416ED-F7D3-409B-8B87-CAF47A1AD2D8@gmail.com>

Howdy Brick, I really appreciate that you chimed in mate!

Fortunately I live in San Diego and I have taken a sabbatical to do the trail. Started training in August in earnest. Added a lot of non sport specific training in the core and upper body as my sticks, aka legs are as solid as they are going to get at 48 and have been putting in Sierra days at our local regional park, albeit not at altitude. Got a day up to the summit of San Jacinto from Idyllwild (Humber Park via Devil?s slide) right before first snow. That is a good day when you wake up at sea level and are at 10,800+ by 1:30 PM. Not that I am a stats guys, or believe that one days effort ever equals another, but 6 hours round trip for a 15.9 mile 4.5K vert gain and loss felt pretty darn good, except for the new boots blister on my heel. :-)

I am with you on the snow shoes, but I just added them recently and since I have not used the MSR Lightning Ascent in the past and they are supposed to be pretty good for steeps, edging, french stepping, etc I am going to head up to San Jac.via the tram and give them a ride on the upper slopes and see how it goes. I have flex tested them for lateral torsion and the flex enough that they might not be a total downer on uneven terrain, but I may be very wrong about that. In any case, take em out and see if they?ll have any value on sun-cupped choss, if not hold onto/forward them for what will inevitably be a late finish in WA.

So, as of now it is sort of wait and see. I?ll be able to hike San Jacinto and recon Baden-Powell in late March to determine if I want to carry the axe. As of now the Mountain fire closure is still in place and I do not expect it to be lifted this year. I am planning to do the unofficial Mountain Fire closure walk around and I have ZERO intention of humping my ass up to South Ridge to get back on at Tahquitz Peak. This is my backyard and I have hiked all these trails more times than I can count. In the eyes of some that may taint my hike, but as you said HYOH. If I hook up with a group that has their heart set on doing Devil?s Slide to get back on the trail I?ll join them??.maybe, otherwise I am going to hike the Deer Springs trail to hook into Fuller Ridge, and on this occasion I do not intend to stand on a summit that I have been on, again, more times than I can count.

Thanks for the feedback! My motto for the season, open-minded, adaptable, resilient, centered. We shall see.

Cheers,
Tod




> On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Todd Cantor <tcantor33 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> All valid points. I am picking up snowshoes, mountain gaiters, an axe and a GPS at KM.
> 
> Showshoes will be unused dead weight in the Sierra for an April start.
> You will be walking on consolidated snow. Any fresh snow will be a
> small enough quantity that you won't need snowshoes. Sun-cups and
> postholing will be your issues, not fluffy powder. Your real issue
> will be the creek crossings.
> 
> Unless you have decided on a road walk from Idyllwild to Black
> Mountain Campground, and also skipping Baden Powell, I would pick up
> your ice axe in Idyllwild. If the trail is open between Hwy 74 and
> Tahquitz Peak I would pick it up in Anza. If you don't want to carry
> it across the desert, mail it to KM from Agua Dulce.
> 
> HYOH, YMMV
> Have fun
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From sconover94 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 14:14:58 2017
From: sconover94 at gmail.com (Scott Conover)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:14:58 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Sleeping bag and pack for sale
Message-ID: <CADSYBxQqRh-T0UZ7=3Yu+oYPF78Vf6nLmDGtgdANw=-SCM6B7g@mail.gmail.com>

I have a slightly used, (looks new), ULA Ohm 2.0 backpack, size large, with
a medium hipbelt.
   Price is $110 which includes shipping.
I also have a slightly used, (looks new), Western Mountaineering Megalite
30 degree sleeping bag in regular length.  Price is $225 which includes
shipping.
Contact Scott Conover, (PCT-94), @ 503-734-9735

From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  3 10:02:52 2017
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 16:02:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Crew - Central and North Washington
References: <1965013527.514964.1486137772557.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1965013527.514964.1486137772557@mail.yahoo.com>

As we heard earlier, the Gorilla's are working hard to get the Powerline Fire area open. ?On the other end of the trail, there will be a lot going on as well, at least once the snow melts.
Training:

First Aid / CPR April 1 and 29, North Bend.

Crosscut Saw Cert: April 8-9, North Bend (Full)

Trail Skills College: May 19-21. Darrington.

Chainsaw and Crosscut Saw Cert: June 3-4, Tentative @ Darrington.


Major Projects with objectives, dates and camp information:
Glacier Peak Wilderness (3 week long crews, mix of full horse pack and self support backpack, logout plus brush and tread): June into July
Stevens Pass area logout: From 12 miles south to 19 miles north. 3-4 crews, mostly self support backpack. July into early August.
Blowout Mountain: July 21-23, car camp. ?Tread and brush.
Hope Lake (Stevens Pass South) Tread and Brush: Aug 3-6 self support back pack.
Louisiana Saddle (south of Government Meadow)? Aug 21-26 Horse Pack with BCHW. Tread and brush.
CC100 Snoqualmie South ? Aug 25-27 Car Camp. Tread and brush.
Highway 20 South ? August 27-Sept 2. Tread, brush and other fun (hint, hint) projects.
Harts Pass Car Camp ? Sept 8-10. Tread.
Snoqualmie Pass Area Logout (day trips) ? July-August, 40 miles
Rainy Pass to Harts Pass Logout (mix of day trips and ~3 day self support back pack) ? Late June to July. 31 miles
Sign Inventory - Chinook Pass to Snoqualmie Pass. Self support backpack (~70 miles). August.

Plus emergent projects and Steward led work parties.We will announce sign up for these on FB (search North 350 Blades), via our e-mail list and for the multi-day projects, via the PCTA Volunteer Project web page at:http://www.pcta.org/volunteer/project-schedule/


From sconover94 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  3 14:32:59 2017
From: sconover94 at gmail.com (Scott Conover)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 12:32:59 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Pack and sleeping bag for sale
Message-ID: <CADSYBxRqNYqc+HOTEixxY5KLQuNoULvbZe6j9ym0MRzMXoUdrQ@mail.gmail.com>

OOPS!  I made a mistake in yesterday's post. The pack, (ULA Ohm 2.0), is a
MEDIUM, not a large.  Sorry for the confusion.
Scott "RayJay" PCT-94.  cell: 503-734-9735

From reddirt23 at att.net  Fri Feb  3 19:13:21 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 17:13:21 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
Message-ID: <41A823DF-AE4E-4355-84FB-A124C9DF7721@att.net>

I have been going over some of the previous years videos of folks traversing steep snow in the Sierra.  Yikes!  Anyone actually know how to carry and use an ice axe...  Oh my gosh, scary.  I noted several trail traverses where folks, if taking a tumble would be at least injured.  Why not put the hiking poles on your pack and use the axe as it was intended, to save you from harm or save your life, and perhaps for others who may have to rescue you down that icy rocky slope.  I noted also that folks don't seem to take the idea of having a lanyard on the axe very seriously either...  Anybody ever read the Mountaineering guide anymore?  

From jbruins at gmail.com  Fri Feb  3 19:32:28 2017
From: jbruins at gmail.com (Jay Bruins)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 17:32:28 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <41A823DF-AE4E-4355-84FB-A124C9DF7721@att.net>
References: <41A823DF-AE4E-4355-84FB-A124C9DF7721@att.net>
Message-ID: <F071E55A-DFF6-4FAF-9A8B-C06B2BC383DA@gmail.com>

It?s been a while since I?ve read Freedom of the Hills, but there?s definitely some debate around the benefit of a leash on consolidated snow or glaciers. Tumbling down a hill with an ice axe attached to you but not under control tends to result in puncture wounds. This could be worse than the terrain trap you?re attempting to avoid.

FWIW, the last time I had a yard-sale skiing, I lost my ski but not my poles (and I don?t use straps here, either). I wouldn?t underestimate the ability of the body to grasp onto things under stress.

Cheers,
Armstrong

> On Feb 3, 2017, at 5:13 PM, Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net> wrote:
> 
> I have been going over some of the previous years videos of folks traversing steep snow in the Sierra.  Yikes!  Anyone actually know how to carry and use an ice axe...  Oh my gosh, scary.  I noted several trail traverses where folks, if taking a tumble would be at least injured.  Why not put the hiking poles on your pack and use the axe as it was intended, to save you from harm or save your life, and perhaps for others who may have to rescue you down that icy rocky slope.  I noted also that folks don't seem to take the idea of having a lanyard on the axe very seriously either...  Anybody ever read the Mountaineering guide anymore?  
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From tcantor33 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  4 02:02:34 2017
From: tcantor33 at gmail.com (Todd Cantor)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 00:02:34 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] April 2017 Thru Hike
In-Reply-To: <824593849.1059151.1485891588219@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <824593849.1059151.1485891588219.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <824593849.1059151.1485891588219@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <906EAF9E-4E28-4D18-9BD9-31D057DF2100@gmail.com>

HI Barry,

If I jump north it will be via the Lone-Pine>>Reno Bus with a connector in Reno to the Amtrak ?Zephyr? up to Truckee with a hitch to Donner. Agreed that there will still be snow on the ground in places, but I?ll be GPS armed with spare batteries and the other appropriate gear. In my experience, late spring snow at 8K is much easier than late spring snow at 11K+.

I am seriously thinking through the different approaches and ramifications. I have a planned a family vacation that required quite a bit of forward planning, more than the hike actually and it will take me off trail for almost two weeks in August. Hence my concern about timing.

Anyways, appreciate the input. It gave me a good gut check on making sure to check weather and snow levels.

Cheers,
Todd


> On Jan 31, 2017, at 11:39 AM, Barry Teschlog <tokencivilian at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Todd wrote:"Still vacillating on a flip of Nor-Cal/Oregon and Sierra due to a previously planned two week International trip in August that cannot be rescheduled...."
> Reply:My 2 cents......
> Stop vacillating.  Flipping away from the Sierra is not likely to be an option this year - it isn't 2005 where the PNW had practically no snow, with Cali with heavy snow.  There will probably be no place to flip "to" given how the conditions are shaping up.  The further north you go, the lower the snow level is (and will be at a given time in June / July).  The only reason the trail up by Tahoe and points north is melted out for a thru hiker is that it has weeks more to do so, relative to the High Sierra Passes.  Lots of people tried to flip away from the snow my year, due to the high snow - I didn't hear of one that found it successful, most likely since there was no snow free place (of any significant length) to flip to from Kennedy Meadow in early to mid June.  
> 
> One of the other challenges to flipping from high Sierra Snow to points north is navigation.  Up high, you're above treeline.  It's easy to see where you're going.  Forrest navigation in the snow is more challenging.
> 
> Early starts will give you control of when you enter the Sierra.  It's easy to slow down and take more zero's to delay when you get to KM.  You don't have to go when you get there.  Monitor the snow conditions via such sites as Postholer, starting from as early as Idyllwild, and adjust your rate of progress accordingly.  If the spring melt is delayed and / or it keeps snowing through mid April (like it did my year) then zero early and zero often and take extra days to cover each section to push back your KM date appropriately.  If the snow quits late March and its a warm spring....push on.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From reddirt23 at att.net  Sat Feb  4 10:17:52 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 08:17:52 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
Message-ID: <7B368635-D4D2-41D7-BF25-358879BEDCD3@att.net>

I don't use straps on my hiking poles for a reason, probably similar to why you don't with skis.  LOL, my last yard sale found me having to go over a steep edge to get that other ski.  
My point was the obvious lack of knowledge and carelessness I observed.  I've also seen it personally on the trail.  

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  4 10:25:36 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 08:25:36 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <7B368635-D4D2-41D7-BF25-358879BEDCD3@att.net>
References: <7B368635-D4D2-41D7-BF25-358879BEDCD3@att.net>
Message-ID: <95f2058d-0f77-1b36-ad60-cb3a63976540@gmail.com>

> I don't use straps on my hiking poles for a reason, probably similar to why you don't with skis.  LOL, my last yard sale found me having to go over a steep edge to get that other ski.
> My point was the obvious lack of knowledge and carelessness I observed.  I've also seen it personally on the trail.

I stopped using straps on my hiking poles when exploring the Middle Fork 
of the San Joaquin on the California Riding and Hiking Trail (hasn't 
been maintained in 15 to 20 years). Here's an excerpt from a narrative 
of the trip.  The lesson I learned - never, ever have pole straps on 
when going downhill on anything but a PCT grade trail.

About half way down the canyon wall I came to a drop that required me to 
step from one granite slab down 24" to a granite boulder covered with 
last fall's leaves. These were leaves that had fallen, been covered with 
snow over the winter, and now, were flat and slick ready to decompose 
into threads. From the boulder I would need to step another 24" down to 
a small flat spot of dirt. There was a small pine tree next to the 
boulder. This was the 50th, 100th, 200th little maneuver I'd made to 
make my way down to the river I could hear blasting along the canyon's 
bottom, far below. I put my right hand's pole on the leaf covered 
boulder and began to lower myself. I put my right foot and weight on the 
boulder, but was not "centered." My foot slipped off it and the next 
thing I knew I was spinning out into space. It would have been a simple 
matter to lower my left hand and catch myself on the granite slab, but 
when I reached down to do so, my pole caught on the boulder below, and 
my hand scribed an arc forward into space. I found myself falling 
backwards, twisting around my left hand's pole. I did my best to 
collapse rather than actually fall, figuring it would be better to skid 
down the incline. However I'd gone to far and had to actually pull my 
right hand around my head as I fell. I landed on my pack and bounced off 
the boulder. I continued to twist my body through the fall and ended up 
spreadeagled with four point contact over the little dirt spot I'd meant 
to step on. I'd managed to land on my back and then do an intentional 
180 degree flip/fall and land to feet and hands. My poles made my 
landing awkward, but I didn't scrape my face or head or body. I landed 
in a spider position and hung there for a moment before collapsing into 
the dirt and rock of the forested canyon wall.

Jeff, Laramie, WY

On 2/4/2017 8:17 AM, Stephen Adams wrote:



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From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  5 10:44:08 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 16:44:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
References: <341673337.1220068.1486313048894.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <341673337.1220068.1486313048894@mail.yahoo.com>

I don't think there is any debate at all among mountaineers about the benefit of a leash on an ice axe. If you lose the axe, you lose the possibility of regaining control of the axe. And once you fall you fight until you stop, one way or the other.

Of course, the real purpose of the axe is to not fall in the first place.

While my inclination would be to carry an axe in the Sierra in early June, it doesn't seem like there are bodies piling up at the bottom of Forester Pass.

Gary
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 2/3/17, Jay Bruins <jbruins at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
 To: "Stephen Adams" <reddirt23 at att.net>
 Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
 Date: Friday, February 3, 2017, 5:32 PM
 
 It?s been a while since
 I?ve read Freedom of the Hills, but there?s definitely
 some debate around the benefit of a leash on consolidated
 snow or glaciers. Tumbling down a hill with an ice axe
 attached to you but not under control tends to result in
 puncture wounds. This could be worse than the terrain trap
 you?re attempting to avoid.
 
 FWIW, the last time I had a yard-sale skiing, I
 lost my ski but not my poles (and I don?t use straps here,
 either). I wouldn?t underestimate the ability of the body
 to grasp onto things under stress.
 
 Cheers,
 Armstrong
 
 > On Feb 3, 2017, at 5:13
 PM, Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net>
 wrote:
 > 
 > I have
 been going over some of the previous years videos of folks
 traversing steep snow in the Sierra.? Yikes!? Anyone
 actually know how to carry and use an ice axe...? Oh my
 gosh, scary.? I noted several trail traverses where folks,
 if taking a tumble would be at least injured.? Why not put
 the hiking poles on your pack and use the axe as it was
 intended, to save you from harm or save your life, and
 perhaps for others who may have to rescue you down that icy
 rocky slope.? I noted also that folks don't seem to
 take the idea of having a lanyard on the axe very seriously
 either...? Anybody ever read the Mountaineering guide
 anymore?? 
 >
 _______________________________________________
 > Pct-L mailing list
 > Pct-L at backcountry.net
 > To unsubscribe, or change options
 visit:
 > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 > 
 > List Archives:
 > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 > All content is copyrighted by the
 respective authors.
 > Reproduction is
 prohibited without express permission.
 
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective
 authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without
 express permission.

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Mon Feb  6 00:45:30 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 22:45:30 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <341673337.1220068.1486313048894@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <341673337.1220068.1486313048894.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <341673337.1220068.1486313048894@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NznMN-w6+mucziUeP4R68roNDeRzLQLTHWRaUva=zKKK-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 8:44 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com> wrote:
> While my inclination would be to carry an axe in the Sierra in early June,
> it doesn't seem like there are bodies piling up at the bottom of Forester Pass.

In 1999, there was a PCT thru hiker death due to an un arrested fall
while bailing off the trail at New Army Pass.

He lived long enough to get into his sleeping bag, but he didn't
survive. He didn't have an ice axe.

http://www.backcountry.net/arch/pct/9906/msg00102.html
http://www.backcountry.net/arch/pct/0001/msg00446.html

If you have an ice axe and you know how to use it, you won't die in the snow.

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  6 09:29:14 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 15:29:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
References: <1611327472.1742167.1486394954339.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1611327472.1742167.1486394954339@mail.yahoo.com>

This weekend a man was killed near Little Jimmy above Islip Saddle.  Five out of a party of ten fell.
http://ktla.com/2017/02/04/at-least-3-seriously-hikers-injured-possibly-3-more-missing-after-falling-down-ice-chute-near-angeles-crest/


 

From dale.mcduffie at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 17:55:50 2017
From: dale.mcduffie at gmail.com (Dale McDuffie)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 15:55:50 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] So Cal Peak bagging this year?
Message-ID: <66c55d38-4370-6d18-3244-12f237ff2733@gmail.com>

I'm starting my hike on March 27 from Campo and have a desire to bag 
Taquitz Peak (via the Devils Slide Trail), San Jaciento and San 
Gorgonio, IF, that is, the weather and snow levels permit it.

I know to answers to what I'm about to ask have a lot of "it depends..." 
answers, but I'll ask anyways:

Have any of you PCT regulars bagged these peaks in early April? Assuming 
there isn't heavy snowfall after mid March, will the trails to the peaks 
be passable?  Will micro-spikes be sufficient to climb these or will 
crampons/ice axe be required?

Same questions for Baldy and Baden-Powel later in the month?

Thanks!


From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  7 10:40:35 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 16:40:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] So Cal Peak bagging this year?
References: <434397902.2597066.1486485635629.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <434397902.2597066.1486485635629@mail.yahoo.com>

It depends.

In early April these peaks will likely have snow pack. Experienced mountaineers have died on Baldy, San Gorgonio and Baden-Powell. These peaks get snow, followed by warmer weather. The snow partially melts during the day, then freezes at night. Then more snow will fall. So you'll end up with a sheet of ice covered by a thin layer of snow. This is a common condition and gets people all the time. Some people were injured on Baldy recently when the snow cover slid off the ice layer underneath causing a small avalanche.

I would approach those peaks with good boots, capable of kicking steps, crampons and ice axe and be ready to use them.

On the other hand, I've been on Baldy in January when it was totally dry. Last weekend on the north side of the San Gabriels the snow started at 6000'. 

YMMV

Gary
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/6/17, Dale McDuffie <dale.mcduffie at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [pct-l] So Cal Peak bagging this year?
 To: "PCT" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Monday, February 6, 2017, 3:55 PM
 
 I'm starting my hike on March 27 from
 Campo and have a desire to bag 
 Taquitz Peak (via the Devils Slide Trail), San Jaciento and
 San 
 Gorgonio, IF, that is, the weather and snow levels permit
 it.
 
 I know to answers to what I'm about to ask have a lot of "it
 depends..." 
 answers, but I'll ask anyways:
 
 Have any of you PCT regulars bagged these peaks in early
 April? Assuming 
 there isn't heavy snowfall after mid March, will the trails
 to the peaks 
 be passable?? Will micro-spikes be sufficient to climb
 these or will 
 crampons/ice axe be required?
 
 Same questions for Baldy and Baden-Powel later in the
 month?
 
 Thanks!
 
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
 

From daichovodawn at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 20:27:33 2017
From: daichovodawn at gmail.com (Dawn Webster)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 16:27:33 -1000
Subject: [pct-l] Getting cold feet
Message-ID: <CAJ2kzrJPYOOr_zPtzXOPfyP_h5dEiYrkQt00WsfBC62eyYx_1w@mail.gmail.com>

I hiked the AT last summer and I liked long distance hiking!  I don't do a
typical 9-5 job so it is possible for me to hike again this summer.  I have
my heart set on the PCT- one because I think it will get me more experience
with some slightly scary things like bears and snakes which there weren't
TOO many of on the AT.  Also because it fits my strengths better- I get
super worn out on steep uphills, but can go forever on moderate
grade/downhills, also I am very good in dry situations, desert situations
(even with heat, was hiking in AZ this summer in 100F+ midday heat just
fine), and at altitude (never a problem there, have hiked to almost 18,000
ft).

I am just thinking though about these currently high snow levels- spending
a couple months trudging through snow isn't really what I had in mind.  I
am out of the US until about a week before I'd start hiking (2nd week of
May sometime) so no opportunity to learn any snow techniques (I work on a
boat currently).  When would be a good estimate of when we'd have a better
idea what the summer will hold for snow in the Sierras?  If it's going to
stick around long, or make every stream crossing super crazy, I might try
to do something a little less snowy.  If anyone has suggestions on that it
would be nice.  I'd imagine CDT would be similar conditions (at least in
San Juans) and probably I am not ready for that trail yet.  Can be in any
country, not just the US.

From nobohiker at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 21:27:52 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (NoBo Hiker)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 19:27:52 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] T-shirt, shorts and tennis shoes at 7,500-foot in Feb
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2kzrJPYOOr_zPtzXOPfyP_h5dEiYrkQt00WsfBC62eyYx_1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ2kzrJPYOOr_zPtzXOPfyP_h5dEiYrkQt00WsfBC62eyYx_1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <049E8FB2-D927-4D00-8008-C585B63D22B3@gmail.com>

looks like they saved the unprepared hikers live..

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/02/07/trapped-california-hikers-film-their-own-rescue/

From nobohiker at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 21:28:53 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (NoBo Hiker)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 19:28:53 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Powerhouse Fire Closure
In-Reply-To: <7BAA895A-843C-400F-A4DF-A6A57BC41CD4@gmail.com>
References: <B2AB182D-D9B4-4861-8132-DB3F61DB5F8C@gmail.com>
 <367E820A-EB0A-480F-83BC-74D895259BD3@gmail.com>
 <01e201d2773d$563c2ba0$02b482e0$@tungate.com>
 <7BAA895A-843C-400F-A4DF-A6A57BC41CD4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A6C0B847-AB18-4F4C-B486-C632F0099C4A@gmail.com>

BTW, I talked to the Forest Service again. There is not date set yet..

> On Jan 29, 2017, at 3:02 PM, NoBo Hiker <Nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Mel,
> 
> I think I speak for everyone on this list here: THANK YOU for your and the Trail Gorillas hard work - it is very much appreciated!
> 
> I am glad to hear that great progress has been made. I called the Forest Service last week asking for a formal opening date but that is not known yet  - I was promised to receive a call back once more is known.
> 
> Fingers crossed!
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:00 AM, Mel Tungate <mel at tungate.com <mailto:mel at tungate.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> The PCT is closed from mile 478.2 at San Francisquito Canyon Rd. north to approximately mile 492.  Agua Dulce is at 454.  So, you can stay with Donna, walk 24 miles north, and stay with the Andersons ( if they both are open ).
>> 
>> The closed section has had an extensive amount of work ( I was part of the many many work crews of what is called the Trail Gorillas ).  The trail in the closed section has been extensively rebuilt and cleaned up for all 14 miles.  We ( they ) were close to saying it was ready - only a few sections need minor attention.   The closed trail has been inspected after our hard rains ( and snow at the PCT level ), and a work crew is going out this weekend.   Any additional rain / snow might put it off for a few weeks.  
>> 
>> The crews for part of the cleanup were joined by a trail machine - basically a small bobcat.  That makes everything move very quickly.  
>> 
>> If you want my guess, probably early this year.  But, I am a long way away from the chain of command.  I am just a gorilla.  My guess is just a guess.
>> 
>> I have to drive 250 miles to get there, so I have only been there a few times.
>> 
>> So, stay tuned.
>> 
>> When the section from 478 to 492 is too snowed in, the gorillas cleaned the trail from 454 to 478, and also from 492 to 518.  We relocated one small section, repaired multiple washed out sections, and just cleaned up the path in other places.  Those sections have remained open.  In addition, there is one hiker that goes out to those sections and works on his own almost every weekend until it gets too hot.  
>> 
>> Mel
>> 
>>> On Jan 24, 2017, at 10:48 PM, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com <mailto:nobohiker at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi PCT-L,
>>> 
>>> I have been waiting for a couple of years so I can hike the section north of Agua Dulce, CA and I am hoping to hike it this year, but the section is still listed as closed. Does anyone know more about the potential opening? I?ll probably call the Forest Service to find out more, but thought I might ask PCT-L first
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Section Hiker Rick
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 


From mel at tungate.com  Tue Feb  7 22:50:24 2017
From: mel at tungate.com (Mel)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 20:50:24 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Powerhouse Fire Closure
In-Reply-To: <A6C0B847-AB18-4F4C-B486-C632F0099C4A@gmail.com>
References: <B2AB182D-D9B4-4861-8132-DB3F61DB5F8C@gmail.com>
 <367E820A-EB0A-480F-83BC-74D895259BD3@gmail.com>
 <01e201d2773d$563c2ba0$02b482e0$@tungate.com>
 <7BAA895A-843C-400F-A4DF-A6A57BC41CD4@gmail.com>
 <A6C0B847-AB18-4F4C-B486-C632F0099C4A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CB2EB43E-5F52-4404-BE76-22BECA33B0CA@tungate.com>

Thx.  That doesn't surprise me.   I wonder how the new trail has held up with this last month of heavy rains.   

Mel

> On Feb 7, 2017, at 7:28 PM, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> BTW, I talked to the Forest Service again. There is not date set yet..
> 
>> On Jan 29, 2017, at 3:02 PM, NoBo Hiker <Nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mel,
>> 
>> I think I speak for everyone on this list here: THANK YOU for your and the Trail Gorillas hard work - it is very much appreciated!
>> 
>> I am glad to hear that great progress has been made. I called the Forest Service last week asking for a formal opening date but that is not known yet  - I was promised to receive a call back once more is known.
>> 
>> Fingers crossed!
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 25, 2017, at 11:00 AM, Mel Tungate <mel at tungate.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The PCT is closed from mile 478.2 at San Francisquito Canyon Rd. north to approximately mile 492.  Agua Dulce is at 454.  So, you can stay with Donna, walk 24 miles north, and stay with the Andersons ( if they both are open ).
>>> 
>>> The closed section has had an extensive amount of work ( I was part of the many many work crews of what is called the Trail Gorillas ).  The trail in the closed section has been extensively rebuilt and cleaned up for all 14 miles.  We ( they ) were close to saying it was ready - only a few sections need minor attention.   The closed trail has been inspected after our hard rains ( and snow at the PCT level ), and a work crew is going out this weekend.   Any additional rain / snow might put it off for a few weeks.  
>>> 
>>> The crews for part of the cleanup were joined by a trail machine - basically a small bobcat.  That makes everything move very quickly.  
>>> 
>>> If you want my guess, probably early this year.  But, I am a long way away from the chain of command.  I am just a gorilla.  My guess is just a guess.
>>> 
>>> I have to drive 250 miles to get there, so I have only been there a few times.
>>> 
>>> So, stay tuned.
>>> 
>>> When the section from 478 to 492 is too snowed in, the gorillas cleaned the trail from 454 to 478, and also from 492 to 518.  We relocated one small section, repaired multiple washed out sections, and just cleaned up the path in other places.  Those sections have remained open.  In addition, there is one hiker that goes out to those sections and works on his own almost every weekend until it gets too hot.  
>>> 
>>> Mel
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 24, 2017, at 10:48 PM, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi PCT-L,
>>>> 
>>>> I have been waiting for a couple of years so I can hike the section north of Agua Dulce, CA and I am hoping to hike it this year, but the section is still listed as closed. Does anyone know more about the potential opening? I?ll probably call the Forest Service to find out more, but thought I might ask PCT-L first
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Section Hiker Rick
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>> 
>>>> List Archives:
>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> 

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 00:17:40 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 22:17:40 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Getting cold feet
In-Reply-To: <CAJ2kzrJPYOOr_zPtzXOPfyP_h5dEiYrkQt00WsfBC62eyYx_1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ2kzrJPYOOr_zPtzXOPfyP_h5dEiYrkQt00WsfBC62eyYx_1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f379c63-4df9-fc00-9f3f-49aac570923f@gmail.com>

I would think that starting May 15 to 20 would put you at the beginning 
of the Sierra about the 1st of July or so, likely a good plan this 
year.  On April 1, someone will list the ideal date to enter the Sierra 
based on snow averages.  A normal snow year has this date be June 15.  
The first of July might good this year, or likely, even later.

It's really hard to say when it is a good time to enter the Sierra 
before April 1.

The same goes for other trails - CDT, Great Divide Trail, Pacific 
Northwest Trail, Bigfoot Trail, Arizona Trail, Oregon Desert Trail.  
There are enough long trails mapped you could actually hike a couple 
three of them over three or four months...

Jeff
Laramie, WY

On 2/7/2017 6:27 PM, Dawn Webster wrote:
> I hiked the AT last summer and I liked long distance hiking!  I don't do a
> typical 9-5 job so it is possible for me to hike again this summer.  I have
> my heart set on the PCT- one because I think it will get me more experience
> with some slightly scary things like bears and snakes which there weren't
> TOO many of on the AT.  Also because it fits my strengths better- I get
> super worn out on steep uphills, but can go forever on moderate
> grade/downhills, also I am very good in dry situations, desert situations
> (even with heat, was hiking in AZ this summer in 100F+ midday heat just
> fine), and at altitude (never a problem there, have hiked to almost 18,000
> ft).
>
> I am just thinking though about these currently high snow levels- spending
> a couple months trudging through snow isn't really what I had in mind.  I
> am out of the US until about a week before I'd start hiking (2nd week of
> May sometime) so no opportunity to learn any snow techniques (I work on a
> boat currently).  When would be a good estimate of when we'd have a better
> idea what the summer will hold for snow in the Sierras?  If it's going to
> stick around long, or make every stream crossing super crazy, I might try
> to do something a little less snowy.  If anyone has suggestions on that it
> would be nice.  I'd imagine CDT would be similar conditions (at least in
> San Juans) and probably I am not ready for that trail yet.  Can be in any
> country, not just the US.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


---
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From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Wed Feb  8 16:30:56 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 14:30:56 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <341673337.1220068.1486313048894@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <341673337.1220068.1486313048894.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <341673337.1220068.1486313048894@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9e776dd8-ce68-be48-6c26-d39ad93a16a4@marcusschwartz.com>

This reminds me, my experience was that the descent into Sonora Pass was
much, much more dangerous than any of the "famous" Sierra passes
(including Forester).  Is this normal?  Sonora Pass was much more steep
and slippery than any other pass on the PCT for me.

Since I'd heard lots of fuss about Forester, Muir, etc., I sent my
Microspikes home at Red's Meadow.  It turned out the one place I
would've liked them most was north of there, at Sonora Pass.

 -=Marcus

On 02/05/2017 08:44 AM, Gary Schenk wrote:
> While my inclination would be to carry an axe in the Sierra in early
> June, it doesn't seem like there are bodies piling up at the bottom
> of Forester Pass.

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 16:36:15 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 14:36:15 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <9e776dd8-ce68-be48-6c26-d39ad93a16a4@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <341673337.1220068.1486313048894.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <341673337.1220068.1486313048894@mail.yahoo.com>
 <9e776dd8-ce68-be48-6c26-d39ad93a16a4@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <664b8565-101d-5e01-911e-f13b5461fb85@gmail.com>

I think Cindy Ross wrote about that descent in her book about her hike 
on the PCT.  If my memory is working, it  scared her more than any other 
challenge on her thru-hike...  I came down it on a low snow year and 
there were three or four snow crossings that surprised with their 
exposure..

Jeff
Laramie, WY

On 2/8/2017 2:30 PM, Town Food wrote:
> This reminds me, my experience was that the descent into Sonora Pass was
> much, much more dangerous than any of the "famous" Sierra passes
> (including Forester).  Is this normal?  Sonora Pass was much more steep
> and slippery than any other pass on the PCT for me.
>
> Since I'd heard lots of fuss about Forester, Muir, etc., I sent my
> Microspikes home at Red's Meadow.  It turned out the one place I
> would've liked them most was north of there, at Sonora Pass.
>
>   -=Marcus
>
> On 02/05/2017 08:44 AM, Gary Schenk wrote:
>> While my inclination would be to carry an axe in the Sierra in early
>> June, it doesn't seem like there are bodies piling up at the bottom
>> of Forester Pass.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


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From teresadattolo at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 16:58:26 2017
From: teresadattolo at gmail.com (Teresa D)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 14:58:26 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <9e776dd8-ce68-be48-6c26-d39ad93a16a4@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <341673337.1220068.1486313048894.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <341673337.1220068.1486313048894@mail.yahoo.com>
 <9e776dd8-ce68-be48-6c26-d39ad93a16a4@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <CAGcXdJZSg38-SifLpncHgZ4zg4KrLVXTXG-73Jy1_YG09DhLuA@mail.gmail.com>

I had a similar impression/experience of Sonora. Crossing in late July
there were some pretty steep/exposed snow crossings, after not seeing snow
for at least a week. A friend slipped (and self-arrested).

Teresa

On Wednesday, February 8, 2017, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:

> This reminds me, my experience was that the descent into Sonora Pass was
> much, much more dangerous than any of the "famous" Sierra passes
> (including Forester).  Is this normal?  Sonora Pass was much more steep
> and slippery than any other pass on the PCT for me.
>
> Since I'd heard lots of fuss about Forester, Muir, etc., I sent my
> Microspikes home at Red's Meadow.  It turned out the one place I
> would've liked them most was north of there, at Sonora Pass.
>
>  -=Marcus
>
> On 02/05/2017 08:44 AM, Gary Schenk wrote:
> > While my inclination would be to carry an axe in the Sierra in early
> > June, it doesn't seem like there are bodies piling up at the bottom
> > of Forester Pass.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net <javascript:;>
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed Feb  8 17:19:47 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 23:19:47 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <9e776dd8-ce68-be48-6c26-d39ad93a16a4@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <341673337.1220068.1486313048894.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <341673337.1220068.1486313048894@mail.yahoo.com>,
 <9e776dd8-ce68-be48-6c26-d39ad93a16a4@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265A50E6FDE6C7095059C64C8420@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

These snow years are more like the mid 90s. Excepting of course '94. Please do not go out there without the proper gear and the knowledge of how to use it. You can do it-- just learn how before you get to that steep slope covered in icy snow. 
Many of you live within driving distance of a ski mountain. Take a lesson with someone who has ice axe skills. Spend a day throwing yourself off a mountain backwards,upside down,face first,flailing awkwardly. Get used to it so your body reacts automatically. 
Pretending that you won't be the one who slips is a bit---well, naive. My first rule for my hikes was not to do the dumb thing that caused someone else to be in danger because they came in to rescue me. I maybe was not always successful but that was my goal. 
That included carrying enough water-- not as much of a problem this year. I imagine that there will even be water in the first 20 miles and at Chariot Canyon. It's going to be a great year to do the trail!!!!
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 8, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
> 
> This reminds me, my experience was that the descent into Sonora Pass was
> much, much more dangerous than any of the "famous" Sierra passes
> (including Forester).  Is this normal?  Sonora Pass was much more steep
> and slippery than any other pass on the PCT for me.
> 
> Since I'd heard lots of fuss about Forester, Muir, etc., I sent my
> Microspikes home at Red's Meadow.  It turned out the one place I
> would've liked them most was north of there, at Sonora Pass.
> 
> -=Marcus
> 
>> On 02/05/2017 08:44 AM, Gary Schenk wrote:
>> While my inclination would be to carry an axe in the Sierra in early
>> June, it doesn't seem like there are bodies piling up at the bottom
>> of Forester Pass.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From sebastian.opalko at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 18:37:51 2017
From: sebastian.opalko at gmail.com (Sebastian Opalko)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 19:37:51 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR20MB0265A50E6FDE6C7095059C64C8420@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <341673337.1220068.1486313048894.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <341673337.1220068.1486313048894@mail.yahoo.com>
 <9e776dd8-ce68-be48-6c26-d39ad93a16a4@marcusschwartz.com>
 <CY1PR20MB0265A50E6FDE6C7095059C64C8420@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <491CDC57-93A2-489B-A60C-32F381FDDD35@gmail.com>

It'll be a great year Marmot. I?m so glad that we?ll most likely have more water sources this year. I have a very bad lower back with two slipped disks. I cannot carry more than 20 pounds. It?s extremely difficult to get base+food+water+gas under 20 pounds. I paid so much money to get every piece of gear at the lowest weight. I?m so thrilled and happy for all that snow and that my chances to complete the trail are actually higher now.

All I want to say - nothing is really good or bad. It?s all about how you look at things. So much snow might bring new risks and difficulties but it?ll also give us great benefits like unforgettable memories, struggles that lead to new strengths, and of course WATER to drink that allows a lighter backpack for people with any kind of joint issues.

See ya?ll on trail.

> On Feb 8, 2017, at 6:19 PM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> These snow years are more like the mid 90s. Excepting of course '94. Please do not go out there without the proper gear and the knowledge of how to use it. You can do it-- just learn how before you get to that steep slope covered in icy snow. 
> Many of you live within driving distance of a ski mountain. Take a lesson with someone who has ice axe skills. Spend a day throwing yourself off a mountain backwards,upside down,face first,flailing awkwardly. Get used to it so your body reacts automatically. 
> Pretending that you won't be the one who slips is a bit---well, naive. My first rule for my hikes was not to do the dumb thing that caused someone else to be in danger because they came in to rescue me. I maybe was not always successful but that was my goal. 
> That included carrying enough water-- not as much of a problem this year. I imagine that there will even be water in the first 20 miles and at Chariot Canyon. It's going to be a great year to do the trail!!!!
> Marmot
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 8, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> This reminds me, my experience was that the descent into Sonora Pass was
>> much, much more dangerous than any of the "famous" Sierra passes
>> (including Forester).  Is this normal?  Sonora Pass was much more steep
>> and slippery than any other pass on the PCT for me.
>> 
>> Since I'd heard lots of fuss about Forester, Muir, etc., I sent my
>> Microspikes home at Red's Meadow.  It turned out the one place I
>> would've liked them most was north of there, at Sonora Pass.
>> 
>> -=Marcus
>> 
>>> On 02/05/2017 08:44 AM, Gary Schenk wrote:
>>> While my inclination would be to carry an axe in the Sierra in early
>>> June, it doesn't seem like there are bodies piling up at the bottom
>>> of Forester Pass.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Thu Feb  9 17:11:20 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 23:11:20 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Rucks
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265B09A5E200995868E9306C8450@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

If you are doing the trail this year or in the near future---check out the ALDHAwest Rucks. 
Oregon,Colorado,Idaho,
Santa Cruz
*Learn lots of info about being a long distance hiker
*Be the hiker who starts the trails with a pack missing that 10lbs of stuff that is usually sent home from Mt Laguna. 
*Check out lite gear
*Ask questions !!!!
*meet other thrus
Have a good time
Win stuff
Hope to see you there 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

From reddirt23 at att.net  Thu Feb  9 21:16:03 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 19:16:03 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
Message-ID: <FC41A136-5408-4335-94A4-1F506287890B@att.net>

That was a sad day I heard that news.  I was up there wandering around and heard it while taking a break at the old Kava's coffee house in Bishop.  Mountaineering accidents happen every year.  There is a book published just so folks can learn from others experiences and mistakes.  Like tumbling down steep ice or drowning in creeks.  It happens every year, and is rarely heard about.  

From reddirt23 at att.net  Thu Feb  9 21:25:55 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 19:25:55 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
Message-ID: <8D88EE19-6B0D-4254-BE1D-4204C6FF70F2@att.net>

Yeah, I feel your pain.  I have tried to teach people what I believe to be proper "hiking pole etiquette".  It aint easy.  Folks just don't seem to want to listen.  There was once upon a time when I just got up to the Muir Hut and there was a lady all bloody and beat up cause she had been using poles in talus and they tripped her up and she took a bad header into the rocks.  IT's pretty simple.  In talus and steep slippery snow... put the poles away, at least carry them on one hand.  When I have more time I'll make my shpeel on the subject, but I have been using hiking poles for almost twenty years because of bad foot issues.  But I have a strong belief that there is a right way and wrong way to use them.

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  9 21:29:59 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 19:29:59 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <8D88EE19-6B0D-4254-BE1D-4204C6FF70F2@att.net>
References: <8D88EE19-6B0D-4254-BE1D-4204C6FF70F2@att.net>
Message-ID: <fd634dc1-07e3-e6b0-09bf-3c09888256b2@gmail.com>

My take, don't use straps on any sketchy terrain.  Poles rule... LOL

Jeff


On 2/9/2017 7:25 PM, Stephen Adams wrote:
> Yeah, I feel your pain.  I have tried to teach people what I believe to be proper "hiking pole etiquette".  It aint easy.  Folks just don't seem to want to listen.  There was once upon a time when I just got up to the Muir Hut and there was a lady all bloody and beat up cause she had been using poles in talus and they tripped her up and she took a bad header into the rocks.  IT's pretty simple.  In talus and steep slippery snow... put the poles away, at least carry them on one hand.  When I have more time I'll make my shpeel on the subject, but I have been using hiking poles for almost twenty years because of bad foot issues.  But I have a strong belief that there is a right way and wrong way to use them.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


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From b.friedman86 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  9 09:33:35 2017
From: b.friedman86 at gmail.com (Ben Friedman)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2017 10:33:35 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017
Message-ID: <CACgP+J=b=nDzyvGa4-Er1KCt==Ch-3HURypacOCjGuApc4n8Vg@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning, PCT-ers!

My partner Lauren and I have a start date on April 26 in Campo and have
been beside ourselves with excitement.

But I want to be straightforward- we are beginning to doubt the prospect of
a true NoBo thru-hike, starting in Mexico and hiking to Canada without
flipflopping or multi-week waiting in KM. The snowfall is clearly
prodigious this year, a year to remember. The number of emails on this
listserv discussing entering KM significantly later than usual, the immense
snowpack, etc is concerning. If the snow is a challenge well into the
summer, won't that mean thru hikers will be entering the
volatile/unpredictable North Cascades too late?

Not trying to be a debbie-downer. This hike has been a dream for us for
most of our lives and we want to make this work so so bad-- we're just
trying to figure out how to maximize our PCT time. As a plan B, should we
bag the PCT start date and notion of a thru-hike, and simply decide to
start at Kennedy Meadows in the summer and just see how far our legs take
us thru Labor Day?

Thanks to you all, for this great community and advice!

Ben

From jwberg77 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 10 08:45:54 2017
From: jwberg77 at yahoo.com (Jack Waayenberg)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 09:45:54 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017
In-Reply-To: <CACgP+J=b=nDzyvGa4-Er1KCt==Ch-3HURypacOCjGuApc4n8Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACgP+J=b=nDzyvGa4-Er1KCt==Ch-3HURypacOCjGuApc4n8Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9413FD6D-6938-4D4D-B816-14D3D16F3CBE@yahoo.com>

Hi BEN
My starting date is April 28 I have the same thoughts and fears as you. I'm from Michigan thankfully I have a brother inlaw at beginning and sister inlaw up the trail past big bear. So I will start out and see how things go hope to see you on the trail.
Psalms 121
Kodiak 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 9, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Ben Friedman <b.friedman86 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Good morning, PCT-ers!
> 
> My partner Lauren and I have a start date on April 26 in Campo and have
> been beside ourselves with excitement.
> 
> But I want to be straightforward- we are beginning to doubt the prospect of
> a true NoBo thru-hike, starting in Mexico and hiking to Canada without
> flipflopping or multi-week waiting in KM. The snowfall is clearly
> prodigious this year, a year to remember. The number of emails on this
> listserv discussing entering KM significantly later than usual, the immense
> snowpack, etc is concerning. If the snow is a challenge well into the
> summer, won't that mean thru hikers will be entering the
> volatile/unpredictable North Cascades too late?
> 
> Not trying to be a debbie-downer. This hike has been a dream for us for
> most of our lives and we want to make this work so so bad-- we're just
> trying to figure out how to maximize our PCT time. As a plan B, should we
> bag the PCT start date and notion of a thru-hike, and simply decide to
> start at Kennedy Meadows in the summer and just see how far our legs take
> us thru Labor Day?
> 
> Thanks to you all, for this great community and advice!
> 
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 10 08:46:28 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:46:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017
References: <1132782035.1955360.1486737988005.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1132782035.1955360.1486737988005@mail.yahoo.com>

Part of thruhiking is going through long parts of the trail at non-optimal times. Instead of going through the hot parts when they are coolest, you go through them when they are hottest. You encounter a lot of snow. It's just the deal.

Starting at Kennedy Meadows later in the year and just hiking is not a bad idea. KM can get hot, though. Starting at Horseshoe Meadows might be a better idea.

The Sierra Nevada is beautiful in snow, but it's beautiful in the summer, too.

Good luck.
Gary
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/9/17, Ben Friedman <b.friedman86 at gmail.com> wrote:
 My partner Lauren and I have a start date on April 26 in
 Campo and have
 been beside ourselves with excitement.
 
 But I want to be straightforward- we are beginning to doubt
 the prospect of
 a true NoBo thru-hike, starting in Mexico and hiking to
 Canada without
 flipflopping or multi-week waiting in KM. The snowfall is
 clearly
 prodigious this year, a year to remember. The number of
 emails on this
 listserv discussing entering KM significantly later than
 usual, the immense
 snowpack, etc is concerning. If the snow is a challenge well
 into the
 summer, won't that mean thru hikers will be entering the
 volatile/unpredictable North Cascades too late?
 
 Not trying to be a debbie-downer. This hike has been a dream
 for us for
 most of our lives and we want to make this work so so bad--
 we're just
 trying to figure out how to maximize our PCT time. As a plan
 B, should we
 bag the PCT start date and notion of a thru-hike, and simply
 decide to
 start at Kennedy Meadows in the summer and just see how far
 our legs take
 us thru Labor Day?
 
 Thanks to you all, for this great community and advice!
 
 Ben

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 09:24:48 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 07:24:48 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017
In-Reply-To: <CACgP+J=b=nDzyvGa4-Er1KCt==Ch-3HURypacOCjGuApc4n8Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACgP+J=b=nDzyvGa4-Er1KCt==Ch-3HURypacOCjGuApc4n8Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_asUKCa1NrEWCdiVzL1sattzU9orQhujoZ=5-GQYkOP8+w@mail.gmail.com>

?Hi Ben,

I think you and your partner should live your dream. I'd definitely start
out at Campo. Who knows what will happen along the way. The first 700 miles
is a great way to build up experience on the PCT. If the Sierras prove too
difficult then you can adjust your plans but I wouldn't plan on skipping at
the start.

        -Rover

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 7:33 AM, Ben Friedman <b.friedman86 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Good morning, PCT-ers!
>
> My partner Lauren and I have a start date on April 26 in Campo and have
> been beside ourselves with excitement.
>
> But I want to be straightforward- we are beginning to doubt the prospect of
> a true NoBo thru-hike, starting in Mexico and hiking to Canada without
> flipflopping or multi-week waiting in KM. The snowfall is clearly
> prodigious this year, a year to remember. The number of emails on this
> listserv discussing entering KM significantly later than usual, the immense
> snowpack, etc is concerning. If the snow is a challenge well into the
> summer, won't that mean thru hikers will be entering the
> volatile/unpredictable North Cascades too late?
>
> Not trying to be a debbie-downer. This hike has been a dream for us for
> most of our lives and we want to make this work so so bad-- we're just
> trying to figure out how to maximize our PCT time. As a plan B, should we
> bag the PCT start date and notion of a thru-hike, and simply decide to
> start at Kennedy Meadows in the summer and just see how far our legs take
> us thru Labor Day?
>
> Thanks to you all, for this great community and advice!
>
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Fri Feb 10 09:44:31 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 07:44:31 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <8D88EE19-6B0D-4254-BE1D-4204C6FF70F2@att.net>
References: <8D88EE19-6B0D-4254-BE1D-4204C6FF70F2@att.net>
Message-ID: <076f01d283b4$9255bc90$b70135b0$@mountaineducation.org>

Wow. Couldn't agree more! 

I was just relaying to the Forest Service that the number of inexperienced
people about to swarm Inyo, alone, this spring and summer is going to
skyrocket. The PCTA anticipates somewhere around 3,000 permits issued this
season and with 70% being novices, that will be 2,100 very foolish people
trying to hike on steep snow with "tennis shoes" and cross swollen creeks
where the trail does because to search for a safer crossing will only get
them lost...

Yes, happens every year and we're screaming to get words of wisdom out.


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Stephen
Adams
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 7:26 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel

Yeah, I feel your pain.  I have tried to teach people what I believe to be
proper "hiking pole etiquette".  It aint easy.  Folks just don't seem to
want to listen.  There was once upon a time when I just got up to the Muir
Hut and there was a lady all bloody and beat up cause she had been using
poles in talus and they tripped her up and she took a bad header into the
rocks.  IT's pretty simple.  In talus and steep slippery snow... put the
poles away, at least carry them on one hand.  When I have more time I'll
make my shpeel on the subject, but I have been using hiking poles for almost
twenty years because of bad foot issues.  But I have a strong belief that
there is a right way and wrong way to use them.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Fri Feb 10 10:17:06 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 16:17:06 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_asUKCa1NrEWCdiVzL1sattzU9orQhujoZ=5-GQYkOP8+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACgP+J=b=nDzyvGa4-Er1KCt==Ch-3HURypacOCjGuApc4n8Vg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_asUKCa1NrEWCdiVzL1sattzU9orQhujoZ=5-GQYkOP8+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0ca3a638520f4414922389eb47210315@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

Ben--

I agree with Rover. Just start walking, change plans if/when necessary, and enjoy the adventure. Various strategies for flipping will arise based on conditions, and a non-continuous hike does not lessen your experience.

Heavy snow years need to be respected, but as others have commented proper equipment and training make the conditions manageable. It will take longer and you will work harder--but there nothing comparable to hiking the Sierra when it is dressed out in snow.

I agree with those that have cautioned the real risk in a big snow year is crossing water. Be prepared to spend significant time at raging rivers scouting out a safer option. Among all the techniques for crossing, I think the most important is site selection. At times it may take an hour or more of bush-whacking to find a place where the river fans out or downed trees create a feasible crossing. Come to the process with a mindset that you will allocate as much time as possible to identify a safe crossing, even if that means waiting it out until morning.

Patience, experience, and determination will get you there.

Herb
----

?Hi Ben,

I think you and your partner should live your dream. I'd definitely start out at Campo. Who knows what will happen along the way. The first 700 miles is a great way to build up experience on the PCT. If the Sierras prove too difficult then you can adjust your plans but I wouldn't plan on skipping at the start.

        -Rover

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 7:33 AM, Ben Friedman <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__b.friedman86-40gmail.com&d=DQIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=ouoU-5bWB1hGSQsVF7qHade7G0U6SKCUqXI8nbm_amI&m=XaqKdBllaCseDPTEbJIjmGqqoPBXO49tlaYMnWzZDqQ&s=krGLEqf0vMGOlTq4Cmmz25BuF3bxywbtyJXaFgNmyO0&e= > wrote:


From ned at mountaineducation.org  Fri Feb 10 10:33:01 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 08:33:01 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017
In-Reply-To: <CACgP+J=b=nDzyvGa4-Er1KCt==Ch-3HURypacOCjGuApc4n8Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACgP+J=b=nDzyvGa4-Er1KCt==Ch-3HURypacOCjGuApc4n8Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <080c01d283bb$58f3c760$0adb5620$@mountaineducation.org>

Ben, Gary, and the greater thru-hiking community,

Let's talk thruhiking the PCT in blunt, realistic terms everyone can
understand.

1. It's an adventure on the outside and a journey on the inside. It is not
for the inexperienced, but 70% of all permit applicants have never done a
thru hike before. It is sad that 70%, also, don't complete their original
dream of hiking the trail. What a surprise? Not really.

2. It is a national treasure of scenic beauty worthy of your time and, if
you can spend the necessary amount to thru hike it, it can change your life.
The inexperienced and naive want a "Yellow Brick Road," a freeway experience
where they can just saunter along without a care, listening to their music,
and staring at the trail while feeling free to complain that the hiking is
so hard and uncomfortable. (I'm trying to paint a picture of what I see
happening more and more every year out there and not being literal). Take in
everything with all your senses and discover how to live the trail life.
Don't skip or flip around your challenges because the underlying avoidance,
of the issue and the learning, will not go away and will be challenged again
in the next storm, at the next creek, when you get hungry and have to push
on. Greet the Sierra and receive all she has to teach. Learn how to overcome
your trials for they will become the stories told which will inspire others
to do the same!

3. It is stupid to assume that you can plan and prepare for such an
adventure, while never having done anything remotely like it before, in just
a few months. Sure, the dream may have been thought about for a year, maybe,
but the actual doing, researching, training, and practicing typically only
happens for a few months these days. People get caught up in the excitement
and don't delve too deeply into the reality. They function under the
assumption that if they have the right lightweight gear, they'll be golden,
never get lost, always be warm and dry, can cook anywhere, and call for help
at any time.

4. What Ben is asking shows that he is at least aware and wanting to be
responsible to himself and the community and that is good, but it still
shows that we, who have done the trail and should be mentoring each new
class to their success, are not reaching their preparation needs. As Gary
said, part of thru hiking is rising to the task, taking what comes, and
going the distance as much as you can and are willing because the trials and
challenges ahead on the trail are what make you the changed and better
individual when you come out at the end. When thru hikers are asked, "What
were your favorite parts of the trail?" most say, "The Sierra and the North
Cascades." Don't miss an inch! Learn how to overcome your fears, your
concerns, by finding out how others did it, then practice and prepare. 

Ben, you and Lauren will have the adventure of your lifetimes! Find out what
the realities will be, painful and glorious, train for them, and meet them
head-on. Remember, you walk on top of snow, no matter how deep, learn how to
cross creeks safely, watch the skies for weather changes, eat as much food
as you can carry, be wise, and stay on the trail.


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Ben Friedman
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 7:34 AM
To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017

Good morning, PCT-ers!

My partner Lauren and I have a start date on April 26 in Campo and have been
beside ourselves with excitement.

But I want to be straightforward- we are beginning to doubt the prospect of
a true NoBo thru-hike, starting in Mexico and hiking to Canada without
flipflopping or multi-week waiting in KM. The snowfall is clearly prodigious
this year, a year to remember. The number of emails on this listserv
discussing entering KM significantly later than usual, the immense snowpack,
etc is concerning. If the snow is a challenge well into the summer, won't
that mean thru hikers will be entering the volatile/unpredictable North
Cascades too late?

Not trying to be a debbie-downer. This hike has been a dream for us for most
of our lives and we want to make this work so so bad-- we're just trying to
figure out how to maximize our PCT time. As a plan B, should we bag the PCT
start date and notion of a thru-hike, and simply decide to start at Kennedy
Meadows in the summer and just see how far our legs take us thru Labor Day?

Thanks to you all, for this great community and advice!

Ben
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From weathercarrot at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 10 12:38:01 2017
From: weathercarrot at hotmail.com (Weathercarrot -)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:38:01 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] February 10th Snowpack chart
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB107368ECFDAD4606A4A8B20CAE440@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

Latest CA snowpack chart shows that we're running neck and neck with 1983, especially higher elevations near the crest south of Lake Tahoe.  We're definitely close to record territory when it comes to total precipitation since October 1st, although snowpack has taken a bit of a hit lately because of extremely high snow levels this past week.  If these last few storms were a bit colder, we'd probably be ahead of 1983.


http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 12:58:59 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 10:58:59 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] February 10th Snowpack chart
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR13MB107368ECFDAD4606A4A8B20CAE440@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BN6PR13MB107368ECFDAD4606A4A8B20CAE440@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2561caaf-9e45-727a-5553-abfc1912bf56@gmail.com>

And if you plug in the 2004-2005 water year, you'll get a year where 
many, if not most hikers flipped north at Kennedy Meadows because of 
high snow in the Sierra and very low snow in Washington and Oregon.


On 2/10/2017 10:38 AM, Weathercarrot - wrote:
> Latest CA snowpack chart shows that we're running neck and neck with 1983, especially higher elevations near the crest south of Lake Tahoe.  We're definitely close to record territory when it comes to total precipitation since October 1st, although snowpack has taken a bit of a hit lately because of extremely high snow levels this past week.  If these last few storms were a bit colder, we'd probably be ahead of 1983.
>
>
> http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


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From moonbeams13 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 13:02:39 2017
From: moonbeams13 at gmail.com (Cody B)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:02:39 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] February 10th Snowpack chart
In-Reply-To: <2561caaf-9e45-727a-5553-abfc1912bf56@gmail.com>
References: <BN6PR13MB107368ECFDAD4606A4A8B20CAE440@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <2561caaf-9e45-727a-5553-abfc1912bf56@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO-n75w-hd78sbURsf564-3yu2R+0ufh9MMxrk_oja9XAQRhJA@mail.gmail.com>

Except Oregon and Washington are also getting above average snowfall this
year.

On Feb 10, 2017 12:59 PM, "Jeffrey Olson" <jjolson58 at gmail.com> wrote:

> And if you plug in the 2004-2005 water year, you'll get a year where many,
> if not most hikers flipped north at Kennedy Meadows because of high snow in
> the Sierra and very low snow in Washington and Oregon.
>
>
> On 2/10/2017 10:38 AM, Weathercarrot - wrote:
>
>> Latest CA snowpack chart shows that we're running neck and neck with
>> 1983, especially higher elevations near the crest south of Lake Tahoe.
>> We're definitely close to record territory when it comes to total
>> precipitation since October 1st, although snowpack has taken a bit of a hit
>> lately because of extremely high snow levels this past week.  If these last
>> few storms were a bit colder, we'd probably be ahead of 1983.
>>
>>
>> http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>
>
> ---
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> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Fri Feb 10 13:18:07 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 11:18:07 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] February 10th Snowpack chart
In-Reply-To: <2561caaf-9e45-727a-5553-abfc1912bf56@gmail.com>
References: <BN6PR13MB107368ECFDAD4606A4A8B20CAE440@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <2561caaf-9e45-727a-5553-abfc1912bf56@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0a7701d283d2$69a07560$3ce16020$@mountaineducation.org>

Mountain Education will be posting Trail/Snow Condition Reports on the
southern Sierra starting just after May 1st to their FB page and school's
website. 

You won't be in the dark fretting on the porch at KM this year!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
Olson
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 10:59 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] February 10th Snowpack chart

And if you plug in the 2004-2005 water year, you'll get a year where many,
if not most hikers flipped north at Kennedy Meadows because of high snow in
the Sierra and very low snow in Washington and Oregon.


On 2/10/2017 10:38 AM, Weathercarrot - wrote:
> Latest CA snowpack chart shows that we're running neck and neck with 1983,
especially higher elevations near the crest south of Lake Tahoe.  We're
definitely close to record territory when it comes to total precipitation
since October 1st, although snowpack has taken a bit of a hit lately because
of extremely high snow levels this past week.  If these last few storms were
a bit colder, we'd probably be ahead of 1983.
>
>
> http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


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From tcantor33 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 16:18:14 2017
From: tcantor33 at gmail.com (Todd Cantor)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 14:18:14 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <076f01d283b4$9255bc90$b70135b0$@mountaineducation.org>
References: <8D88EE19-6B0D-4254-BE1D-4204C6FF70F2@att.net>
 <076f01d283b4$9255bc90$b70135b0$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <50931B4E-7A76-4511-8A92-07DFABCF6ECB@gmail.com>

Ned,

I have been following your insights quite actively and I agree that the subjective risks are higher, but classifying 70% of this years class as inexperienced because they have not done a thru hike might be a stretch. imho. At 48, I have intentionally left thru-hiking until now for time and career reasons but in the last 20 years I have also found the time for and bagged significant peaks and walls in the Sierra, Wind Rivers, Rockies, Cascades, Desert Towers, etc. Those experiences are not pure winter mountaineering per se, as the goal was and is usually always a pure technical rock climb on traditional gear, generally between 10,000 - 14,000+ feet, but snow it has and snow it will, lightning even more so. Everyone should be prepared to be pinned down involuntarily (not the same as unplanned bivy for clarity sake), let alone be ?forced? to wait out the night on the southern side of a significant crossing. I am sure that you cover this in your training, but I will be sticking (mostly) to the Mantra of start early, finish early and I will have an axe and crampons and micro spikes, all of which I am comfortable using and most likely a boot of some sort which I will have to deal with getting wet. 

With that said. I am in complete agreement with you that everyone who embarks on this epic trip needs to understand both the objective and subjective dangers and reconcile those with their own experience and physical limitations. For myself I have gotten comfortable with the ramifications of an early season entry into the Sierra and what that will mean to timing, resupply strategy, gear selection and mental and physical preparation. Having the good fortune of being from San Diego I will be able to preview the Southern Section mountains (primarily San Jacinto) on training hikes for the next few months while they are still under a decent amount of snow before I start my actual hike. That experience can help inform (to a very small degree) the conditions and associated data that will be available about the pack as we move towards KM in ?late? Spring and "early" Summer (Using the summer solstice as the boundary between those two for arbitrary date purposes, not necessarily for what to expect in the back country as that is most clearly not defined by a date alone) 

As you know, the mountains make their own weather. I have woken for a dawn patrol start on what would become a sunny, beautiful morning at Iceberg Lake in July only to scramble off the summit of Russell in an electrical storm at 3:30 PM, grateful for the ?shelter? of the Whitney/Russell col., which as you are aware, ain?t very sheltered. Shoot, in the Rockies you can set your watch to 2:00PM almost without fail for for the daily deluge of rain, snow, sleet, ice or all of the above in the mountains of the front range and around RMNP . 

I think it is worth noting for those that are thinking about flipping and coming back to the Sierra, that later in July and August for sure are often the hottest time of year in the Owens Valley. The rising latent heat and the cool moist air that can come over from the west side can be a recipe for some pretty spicy electrical storms up high depending on the moisture in the atmosphere that is being blown over from the West side. In certain areas those ?storms" can creep in very quickly without a lot of warning, like almost no warning. I?d rather take the extra time and slow it down in the early season and remember to be patient with things like post-holing down slopes in the afternoon than get caught in a High Sierra afternoon thunderstorm unprotected going over ANY pass along the PCT. I?ve been in those, and although modern helmets generally do not have metal straps, in the past they did, and it brings a new meaning to the word fear when you feel electrical ?zaps? arching between your helmet strap and your cheeks, standing on something way up draped in aircraft aluminum climbing gear and cannot count a full 1, 1000 between the flash and the crack. This is a place no one ?wants? to be??.ever.

For those with zero high country experience I would say that some training beforehand would be advisable for sure. The hands on kind that includes taking whippers down steep slopes on purpose and arresting successfully under controlled and protected circumstances. As well as backcountry basics, a couple of which you have already mentioned.

I looked back at some old photo?s from the early 90?s in what had been decent snow years around Temple Crag/Mt. Sill and farther north at Bear Creek Spire with a nice size ?schrund at the bottom of the spire and was reminded how beautiful and fun it can be when you slow down and let it happen organically. Challenges will be, embrace the stink!

Cheers to everyone, look forward to meeting those that are hiking on the trail if and as paths cross and send a big thanks to Ned for providing a voice of reason to help everyone gut check what their actual goals are on this journey and if they are prepared to meet the challenges head on safely.

-Todd



> On Feb 10, 2017, at 7:44 AM, ned at mountaineducation.org wrote:
> 
> Wow. Couldn't agree more! 
> 
> I was just relaying to the Forest Service that the number of inexperienced
> people about to swarm Inyo, alone, this spring and summer is going to
> skyrocket. The PCTA anticipates somewhere around 3,000 permits issued this
> season and with 70% being novices, that will be 2,100 very foolish people
> trying to hike on steep snow with "tennis shoes" and cross swollen creeks
> where the trail does because to search for a safer crossing will only get
> them lost...
> 
> Yes, happens every year and we're screaming to get words of wisdom out.
> 
> 
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education, Inc.
> ned at mountaineducation.org 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Stephen
> Adams
> Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 7:26 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
> 
> Yeah, I feel your pain.  I have tried to teach people what I believe to be
> proper "hiking pole etiquette".  It aint easy.  Folks just don't seem to
> want to listen.  There was once upon a time when I just got up to the Muir
> Hut and there was a lady all bloody and beat up cause she had been using
> poles in talus and they tripped her up and she took a bad header into the
> rocks.  IT's pretty simple.  In talus and steep slippery snow... put the
> poles away, at least carry them on one hand.  When I have more time I'll
> make my shpeel on the subject, but I have been using hiking poles for almost
> twenty years because of bad foot issues.  But I have a strong belief that
> there is a right way and wrong way to use them.
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From ned at mountaineducation.org  Fri Feb 10 17:26:31 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 15:26:31 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
In-Reply-To: <50931B4E-7A76-4511-8A92-07DFABCF6ECB@gmail.com>
References: <8D88EE19-6B0D-4254-BE1D-4204C6FF70F2@att.net>
 <076f01d283b4$9255bc90$b70135b0$@mountaineducation.org>
 <50931B4E-7A76-4511-8A92-07DFABCF6ECB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0bd901d283f5$1cf0b950$56d22bf0$@mountaineducation.org>

Todd, 

Clearly you know what it takes to be safe out there based on your extensive experience! I loved reading all about it! There are certainly many ways to garnish a working understanding of what it will take to do a thru hike, but that 70% number I thought came from the PCTA. If ever you feel that you have a story or experience you can use to underline or correct anything I suggest that this year's PCT class either do or pay attention to, please don't hesitate to speak up! The more experienced voices giving the same advice or words of caution, the better!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Cantor [mailto:tcantor33 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 2:18 PM
To: ned at mountaineducation.org
Cc: PCT L. <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel

Ned,

I have been following your insights quite actively and I agree that the subjective risks are higher, but classifying 70% of this years class as inexperienced because they have not done a thru hike might be a stretch. imho. At 48, I have intentionally left thru-hiking until now for time and career reasons but in the last 20 years I have also found the time for and bagged significant peaks and walls in the Sierra, Wind Rivers, Rockies, Cascades, Desert Towers, etc. Those experiences are not pure winter mountaineering per se, as the goal was and is usually always a pure technical rock climb on traditional gear, generally between 10,000 - 14,000+ feet, but snow it has and snow it will, lightning even more so. Everyone should be prepared to be pinned down involuntarily (not the same as unplanned bivy for clarity sake), let alone be ?forced? to wait out the night on the southern side of a significant crossing. I am sure that you cover this in your training, but I will be sticking (mostly) to the Mantra of start early, finish early and I will have an axe and crampons and micro spikes, all of which I am comfortable using and most likely a boot of some sort which I will have to deal with getting wet. 

With that said. I am in complete agreement with you that everyone who embarks on this epic trip needs to understand both the objective and subjective dangers and reconcile those with their own experience and physical limitations. For myself I have gotten comfortable with the ramifications of an early season entry into the Sierra and what that will mean to timing, resupply strategy, gear selection and mental and physical preparation. Having the good fortune of being from San Diego I will be able to preview the Southern Section mountains (primarily San Jacinto) on training hikes for the next few months while they are still under a decent amount of snow before I start my actual hike. That experience can help inform (to a very small degree) the conditions and associated data that will be available about the pack as we move towards KM in ?late? Spring and "early" Summer (Using the summer solstice as the boundary between those two for arbitrary date purposes, not necessarily for what to expect in the back country as that is most clearly not defined by a date alone) 

As you know, the mountains make their own weather. I have woken for a dawn patrol start on what would become a sunny, beautiful morning at Iceberg Lake in July only to scramble off the summit of Russell in an electrical storm at 3:30 PM, grateful for the ?shelter? of the Whitney/Russell col., which as you are aware, ain?t very sheltered. Shoot, in the Rockies you can set your watch to 2:00PM almost without fail for for the daily deluge of rain, snow, sleet, ice or all of the above in the mountains of the front range and around RMNP . 

I think it is worth noting for those that are thinking about flipping and coming back to the Sierra, that later in July and August for sure are often the hottest time of year in the Owens Valley. The rising latent heat and the cool moist air that can come over from the west side can be a recipe for some pretty spicy electrical storms up high depending on the moisture in the atmosphere that is being blown over from the West side. In certain areas those ?storms" can creep in very quickly without a lot of warning, like almost no warning. I?d rather take the extra time and slow it down in the early season and remember to be patient with things like post-holing down slopes in the afternoon than get caught in a High Sierra afternoon thunderstorm unprotected going over ANY pass along the PCT. I?ve been in those, and although modern helmets generally do not have metal straps, in the past they did, and it brings a new meaning to the word fear when you feel electrical ?zaps? arching between your helmet strap and your cheeks, standing on something way up draped in aircraft aluminum climbing gear and cannot count a full 1, 1000 between the flash and the crack. This is a place no one ?wants? to be??.ever.

For those with zero high country experience I would say that some training beforehand would be advisable for sure. The hands on kind that includes taking whippers down steep slopes on purpose and arresting successfully under controlled and protected circumstances. As well as backcountry basics, a couple of which you have already mentioned.

I looked back at some old photo?s from the early 90?s in what had been decent snow years around Temple Crag/Mt. Sill and farther north at Bear Creek Spire with a nice size ?schrund at the bottom of the spire and was reminded how beautiful and fun it can be when you slow down and let it happen organically. Challenges will be, embrace the stink!

Cheers to everyone, look forward to meeting those that are hiking on the trail if and as paths cross and send a big thanks to Ned for providing a voice of reason to help everyone gut check what their actual goals are on this journey and if they are prepared to meet the challenges head on safely.

-Todd



> On Feb 10, 2017, at 7:44 AM, ned at mountaineducation.org wrote:
> 
> Wow. Couldn't agree more! 
> 
> I was just relaying to the Forest Service that the number of 
> inexperienced people about to swarm Inyo, alone, this spring and 
> summer is going to skyrocket. The PCTA anticipates somewhere around 
> 3,000 permits issued this season and with 70% being novices, that will 
> be 2,100 very foolish people trying to hike on steep snow with "tennis 
> shoes" and cross swollen creeks where the trail does because to search 
> for a safer crossing will only get them lost...
> 
> Yes, happens every year and we're screaming to get words of wisdom out.
> 
> 
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education, Inc.
> ned at mountaineducation.org
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of 
> Stephen Adams
> Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 7:26 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Steep Snow Travel
> 
> Yeah, I feel your pain.  I have tried to teach people what I believe 
> to be proper "hiking pole etiquette".  It aint easy.  Folks just don't 
> seem to want to listen.  There was once upon a time when I just got up 
> to the Muir Hut and there was a lady all bloody and beat up cause she 
> had been using poles in talus and they tripped her up and she took a 
> bad header into the rocks.  IT's pretty simple.  In talus and steep 
> slippery snow... put the poles away, at least carry them on one hand.  
> When I have more time I'll make my shpeel on the subject, but I have 
> been using hiking poles for almost twenty years because of bad foot 
> issues.  But I have a strong belief that there is a right way and wrong way to use them.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.



From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 10 17:52:10 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 23:52:10 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Safety
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB02650AA17695CFE0E6D1599FC8440@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

There are simple things you can do,also. These ideas may seem obvious, BUT
*have you even put up your tent in the pouring rain?
*Have you ever had to put on soaking wet clothing in the morning and walk yourself dry?
*Do you know how to keep your feet warm?--not necessarily dry just warm
*do you know what a storm looks like coming in from the west? 
* Do you understand how to make a choice to stay low if the weather is changing 
These questions seem simplistic. But many of the hikers out there have never had a backpack on. Go out in the pouring rain for a few hour walk --set up your tent in your back yard or a park. Don't expect your "spot"to mean you will be rescued 
I can't tell you how many people I have run into on trails that are learning how to use their stoves,tents,tarps in the first week out there. 
It's still going to be a great year!!!!
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone

From baidarker at gmail.com  Sat Feb 11 05:31:28 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 03:31:28 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Safety
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj10PEe-q5nG-8hzXdYWkrKzTtu4twncHgOmWgqhmFCUKtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CY1PR20MB02650AA17695CFE0E6D1599FC8440@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGxcj12Dywji7FqppY4KM4AJpX-nvOPGMguNfmH4L=UDVBsrVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10PEe-q5nG-8hzXdYWkrKzTtu4twncHgOmWgqhmFCUKtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj12reiwC9d0p=nqrVFqeVRi-QbvikKmNHKRNWCwHb9p7nQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Marmot,

That's a big part of why I lead storm hikes all winter in the heaviest
weather we get in the Bay Area.  Not nearly as bad as it gets elsewhere,
but damned great training nonetheless.  It's nice to know what it feels
like to hike wet footed in freezing temps and snow, or what it feels like
to fight 80 mph winds and rain and much more.  It's much scarier to
experience this at altitude, days from a town when really on trail.  And
the training is great fun!

Shroomer

On Feb 10, 2017 3:52 PM, "marmot marmot" <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote:

There are simple things you can do,also. These ideas may seem obvious, BUT
*have you even put up your tent in the pouring rain?
*Have you ever had to put on soaking wet clothing in the morning and walk
yourself dry?
*Do you know how to keep your feet warm?--not necessarily dry just warm
*do you know what a storm looks like coming in from the west?
* Do you understand how to make a choice to stay low if the weather is
changing
These questions seem simplistic. But many of the hikers out there have
never had a backpack on. Go out in the pouring rain for a few hour walk
--set up your tent in your back yard or a park. Don't expect your "spot"to
mean you will be rescued
I can't tell you how many people I have run into on trails that are
learning how to use their stoves,tents,tarps in the first week out there.
It's still going to be a great year!!!!
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
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Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 11 14:04:36 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2017 20:04:36 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Safety
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj12reiwC9d0p=nqrVFqeVRi-QbvikKmNHKRNWCwHb9p7nQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CY1PR20MB02650AA17695CFE0E6D1599FC8440@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGxcj12Dywji7FqppY4KM4AJpX-nvOPGMguNfmH4L=UDVBsrVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj10PEe-q5nG-8hzXdYWkrKzTtu4twncHgOmWgqhmFCUKtw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj12reiwC9d0p=nqrVFqeVRi-QbvikKmNHKRNWCwHb9p7nQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265766829CDAB1930AD3341C8470@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Absolutely Shoomer!!!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 11, 2017, at 3:31 AM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com<mailto:baidarker at gmail.com>> wrote:

Hey Marmot,

That's a big part of why I lead storm hikes all winter in the heaviest weather we get in the Bay Area.  Not nearly as bad as it gets elsewhere, but damned great training nonetheless.  It's nice to know what it feels like to hike wet footed in freezing temps and snow, or what it feels like to fight 80 mph winds and rain and much more.  It's much scarier to experience this at altitude, days from a town when really on trail.  And the training is great fun!

Shroomer

On Feb 10, 2017 3:52 PM, "marmot marmot" <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com<mailto:marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>> wrote:
There are simple things you can do,also. These ideas may seem obvious, BUT
*have you even put up your tent in the pouring rain?
*Have you ever had to put on soaking wet clothing in the morning and walk yourself dry?
*Do you know how to keep your feet warm?--not necessarily dry just warm
*do you know what a storm looks like coming in from the west?
* Do you understand how to make a choice to stay low if the weather is changing
These questions seem simplistic. But many of the hikers out there have never had a backpack on. Go out in the pouring rain for a few hour walk --set up your tent in your back yard or a park. Don't expect your "spot"to mean you will be rescued
I can't tell you how many people I have run into on trails that are learning how to use their stoves,tents,tarps in the first week out there.
It's still going to be a great year!!!!
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone
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Pct-L at backcountry.net<mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From reddirt23 at att.net  Sun Feb 12 10:24:12 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 08:24:12 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017
Message-ID: <83FE721A-0709-41D5-9DE4-6EA83568F523@att.net>

These are all good points folks have made thus far.  Don't can your trip plans just because there is a lot of discussion regarding snow and snow melt filled creaks.  I'll add to Ned's comments regarding the Sierra.  Most of my hiking there, at least my longer extended stuff has been in early season.  Less people, more wild, plenty of snow and water everywhere.  Later in the season you get hoards of folks coming down the JMT, and places that present your resupply areas like Vermillion resort will get pretty busy.  
If I had a couple question they would regard training possibles, where you live, and how you are preparing for you season of hiking.  
And since someone mentioned food... Eat real wholesome foods.  A little instant stuff is fine so long as it is supported with plenty of good energy filled foods.  Food is heavy, but it is generally agreed that the extra weight is worth the payoff in real hiking and staying power for hiking day in and day out. 

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 12 13:48:24 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 19:48:24 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017
In-Reply-To: <83FE721A-0709-41D5-9DE4-6EA83568F523@att.net>
References: <83FE721A-0709-41D5-9DE4-6EA83568F523@att.net>
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB02657D8BB62D0CC30616FC07C8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

If you send some good stuff to yourself that helps. I know that it's more convenient to shop as you go but I've found it impacts my endurance. 
If you are flying in from Europe or other spots rem

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 8:08 AM, Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net> wrote:
> 
> These are all good points folks have made thus far.  Don't can your trip plans just because there is a lot of discussion regarding snow and snow melt filled creaks.  I'll add to Ned's comments regarding the Sierra.  Most of my hiking there, at least my longer extended stuff has been in early season.  Less people, more wild, plenty of snow and water everywhere.  Later in the season you get hoards of folks coming down the JMT, and places that present your resupply areas like Vermillion resort will get pretty busy.  
> If I had a couple question they would regard training possibles, where you live, and how you are preparing for you season of hiking.  
> And since someone mentioned food... Eat real wholesome foods.  A little instant stuff is fine so long as it is supported with plenty of good energy filled foods.  Food is heavy, but it is generally agreed that the extra weight is worth the payoff in real hiking and staying power for hiking day in and day out. 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 12 14:25:21 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 20:25:21 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR20MB02657D8BB62D0CC30616FC07C8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <83FE721A-0709-41D5-9DE4-6EA83568F523@att.net>,
 <CY1PR20MB02657D8BB62D0CC30616FC07C8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265730FA41FA741D0F3F89EC8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Whoops fat fingers sent this unfinished 
Remember that the PO will hold things for at least a month. I would buy food at a health food store or good large market and send ahead for a month
Good high calorie/quality suggestions
Pecans
Macadamia Nuts
Tahini
Small red split lentils cook up quickly if you soak them ahead of time.When you get water fill up a snap top plastic container or tight screw top lid with soaking liquid and lentils. Even if you are eating cheap ramen(yuck) you can add dried veggies,nuts and lentils to the mix to improve the nutritional value
Trader Joes has all this stuff. 
Buy dried fruit that does not have added sugar(depletes B vitamins/stresses the adrenals ---increases ,over time ,the possibilities of repetitive injury) 
Cool it on candy bars. If some thing is not food off the trail, it does not become food on the trail. Especially when you are doing one of the most physically demanding sports that humans attempt. When you hit town ,eat salads fresh fruit first. You will eventually  be so hungry that you'll just inhale "Little Debbie's" if you aren't careful to eat good food first
To all of you who haven't been reading this list in past years---in the beginning ,unless you are already a long distance athlete, you will not be hungry. You are burning town fat. Even that fat that you are unaware of around your organs. Don't weigh yourself down with too much food. 
If you run out ,so what. You can buy food at Lake Morena(20m) MtLaguna(43m?)
Scissors Crossing(3 1/2 mile hitch to the right 3-4 days north of border)RV park. To the left about 10-12 mile hitch to Julian--has everything. 
Warner Springs(send box to PO in WS. there's a market that you can hitch ride to pretty easily--can't remember name of town)
Then it's only a few days(3/4) to Idyllwild(health food store and good market in same shopping center)
There ,you've just hiked 180 miles of the trail and should have a better idea of how much food you really need. If you have been arriving in town a little hungry --add some. I'm guessing if you are like most hikers you will be leaving food in the hiker boxes. 
Marmot



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 11:48 AM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If you send some good stuff to yourself that helps. I know that it's more convenient to shop as you go but I've found it impacts my endurance. 
> If you are flying in from Europe or other spots rem
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 12, 2017, at 8:08 AM, Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> These are all good points folks have made thus far.  Don't can your trip plans just because there is a lot of discussion regarding snow and snow melt filled creaks.  I'll add to Ned's comments regarding the Sierra.  Most of my hiking there, at least my longer extended stuff has been in early season.  Less people, more wild, plenty of snow and water everywhere.  Later in the season you get hoards of folks coming down the JMT, and places that present your resupply areas like Vermillion resort will get pretty busy.  
>> If I had a couple question they would regard training possibles, where you live, and how you are preparing for you season of hiking.  
>> And since someone mentioned food... Eat real wholesome foods.  A little instant stuff is fine so long as it is supported with plenty of good energy filled foods.  Food is heavy, but it is generally agreed that the extra weight is worth the payoff in real hiking and staying power for hiking day in and day out. 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From moodyjj at comcast.net  Sun Feb 12 15:31:08 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 21:31:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017 - healthy food
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR20MB0265730FA41FA741D0F3F89EC8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <83FE721A-0709-41D5-9DE4-6EA83568F523@att.net>
 <CY1PR20MB02657D8BB62D0CC30616FC07C8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CY1PR20MB0265730FA41FA741D0F3F89EC8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1958447077.111221995.1486935068142.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

There are lots of options for healthy trail food. I'm a fan of freeze-dried meat, veggies, fruits, and cheeses. You can mix up packs of meat & veggies with a carb (instant potatoes, cous-cous, hummus, etc). that you buy in town. These reconstitute fine in cold water, but it takes several hours (I don't cook on summer hikes, only in winter). If you carry a stove, you can use instant rice, noodles, etc., which require hot water to reconstitute. Season with a little instant soup mix, bouillon powder (NOT TOO MUCH; it's very salty), red pepper flakes, or whatever seasoning you like. 

Here's a link to a supply house for f-d stuff. It seems pricey, but a little goes a long way, and it's surprisingly flavorful. Also lighter than dehydrated stuff. 

http://beprepared.com/ 

I haven't seen her posts here in a while, but a hiker named Dicentra had a book and website with hiker recipes, tips, etc. 

Good luck. 

Mango 
----- Original Message -----

From: "marmot marmot" <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> 
To: "Stephen Adams" <reddirt23 at att.net> 
Cc: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 3:25:21 PM 
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017 

Whoops fat fingers sent this unfinished 
Remember that the PO will hold things for at least a month. I would buy food at a health food store or good large market and send ahead for a month 
Good high calorie/quality suggestions 
Pecans 
Macadamia Nuts 
Tahini 
Small red split lentils cook up quickly if you soak them ahead of time.When you get water fill up a snap top plastic container or tight screw top lid with soaking liquid and lentils. Even if you are eating cheap ramen(yuck) you can add dried veggies,nuts and lentils to the mix to improve the nutritional value 
Trader Joes has all this stuff. 
Buy dried fruit that does not have added sugar(depletes B vitamins/stresses the adrenals ---increases ,over time ,the possibilities of repetitive injury) 
Cool it on candy bars. If some thing is not food off the trail, it does not become food on the trail. Especially when you are doing one of the most physically demanding sports that humans attempt. When you hit town ,eat salads fresh fruit first. You will eventually be so hungry that you'll just inhale "Little Debbie's" if you aren't careful to eat good food first 
To all of you who haven't been reading this list in past years---in the beginning ,unless you are already a long distance athlete, you will not be hungry. You are burning town fat. Even that fat that you are unaware of around your organs. Don't weigh yourself down with too much food. 
If you run out ,so what. You can buy food at Lake Morena(20m) MtLaguna(43m?) 
Scissors Crossing(3 1/2 mile hitch to the right 3-4 days north of border)RV park. To the left about 10-12 mile hitch to Julian--has everything. 
Warner Springs(send box to PO in WS. there's a market that you can hitch ride to pretty easily--can't remember name of town) 
Then it's only a few days(3/4) to Idyllwild(health food store and good market in same shopping center) 
There ,you've just hiked 180 miles of the trail and should have a better idea of how much food you really need. If you have been arriving in town a little hungry --add some. I'm guessing if you are like most hikers you will be leaving food in the hiker boxes. 
Marmot 



Sent from my iPhone 

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 11:48 AM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> If you send some good stuff to yourself that helps. I know that it's more convenient to shop as you go but I've found it impacts my endurance. 
> If you are flying in from Europe or other spots rem 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
>> On Feb 12, 2017, at 8:08 AM, Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net> wrote: 
>> 
>> These are all good points folks have made thus far. Don't can your trip plans just because there is a lot of discussion regarding snow and snow melt filled creaks. I'll add to Ned's comments regarding the Sierra. Most of my hiking there, at least my longer extended stuff has been in early season. Less people, more wild, plenty of snow and water everywhere. Later in the season you get hoards of folks coming down the JMT, and places that present your resupply areas like Vermillion resort will get pretty busy. 
>> If I had a couple question they would regard training possibles, where you live, and how you are preparing for you season of hiking. 
>> And since someone mentioned food... Eat real wholesome foods. A little instant stuff is fine so long as it is supported with plenty of good energy filled foods. Food is heavy, but it is generally agreed that the extra weight is worth the payoff in real hiking and staying power for hiking day in and day out. 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> Pct-L mailing list 

From reddirt23 at att.net  Sun Feb 12 16:10:27 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:10:27 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017 - healthy food
Message-ID: <C2B2E095-F5C6-4182-8F4F-8055B6A40B1D@att.net>

Good points Mango.
I carry a fair amount of stuff in bulk and make things as I go.  Thus I carry a pretty nice spice bag that has assorted things for making soups, chilli, pastas, potatoes etc.  I don't hear corn pasta mentioned anymore.  I switched to Quinoa with corn in it a while back and it makes some bomb soup.  So yeah I got soup base (half cube per potfull)  garlic, red pepper, chilli powder, sometimes a little basil for pastas.  A basic 8 day trip dinner wise would have two of chili pot burritos, dried tomato pasta, coos coos with tuna (or potatoes and tuna or salmon etc).  
A lot less repacking and trash also.  

From reddirt23 at att.net  Sun Feb 12 16:32:26 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:32:26 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017 - healthy food
Message-ID: <5C59E8C8-3BD9-4F8B-B518-4C0A659CC28C@att.net>

I forgot to mention the cheese.  Depending what I am doing, I bring cheeses.  For the chili pot burritos ( I just tear up tortillas and stick em in the pot).  And Parmesan for the pasta and coos coos.   Cheese and crackers with salami or tuna is always a big plus and humus, another thing I like to add olive oil 

From moodyjj at comcast.net  Sun Feb 12 16:19:51 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 22:19:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017 - healthy food
In-Reply-To: <5C59E8C8-3BD9-4F8B-B518-4C0A659CC28C@att.net>
References: <5C59E8C8-3BD9-4F8B-B518-4C0A659CC28C@att.net>
Message-ID: <1986600697.111242736.1486937991318.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

On olive oil, I stock up on packets from restaurants, so I don't have to worry about a bottle breaking or leaking. Carrabas will sell you individual packets; others might also. 
Mango 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Stephen Adams" <reddirt23 at att.net> 
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 5:32:26 PM 
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thruhiking 2017 - healthy food 

I forgot to mention the cheese. Depending what I am doing, I bring cheeses. For the chili pot burritos ( I just tear up tortillas and stick em in the pot). And Parmesan for the pasta and coos coos. Cheese and crackers with salami or tuna is always a big plus and humus, another thing I like to add olive oil 
_______________________________________________ 
Pct-L mailing list 
Pct-L at backcountry.net 
To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 

List Archives: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 


From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 16:58:11 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:58:11 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Dinner Food - A system...
In-Reply-To: <4D72F57E.8040602@olc.edu>
References: <4D72F57E.8040602@olc.edu>
Message-ID: <e0dadbc8-6c8e-8f3f-9651-ba54b787a381@gmail.com>

I sent this out 10 years or so ago, and post it periodically.

My favorite dinners are a compilation of cheap, healthy components.
There are four basic levels.

The first level is the base; pasta, instant rice, cous cous, polenta
(grits) or potato flakes, my favorite.  4 oz for the first couple weeks,
6 oz for the rest of the hike.

The second level is a dehydrated soup; split pea, black bean (with extra
salt) or my favorite, curried lentil.  2 oz for the first couple weeks,
and 3-4 oz for the rest of the hike.

The third level is the "binder."  I never knew about binders until I got
disgusted with prepackaged freeze dried food - mostly price.  The binder
is the ingredient that ties everything else together.  Rice and black
bean soup mix gets old real fast.

The binder I favor is parmesian cheese - Kraft or some other generic
version. The stuff lasts forever and has good fat content.  For the
first two weeks - 2oz, and 3-4 oz for the rest of the hike.  You can
carry oil or margarine, fake and tubbed, but I've found that good old
Kraft Parmesian makes me smack my lips as I wolf down dinner.  I usually
include an ounce of 4% dehydrated (Nido) milk as another binder.

The fourth level is where you get creative, and can use the dehydrator.
Anything goes.  An oddity I like is to include dehydrated blueberries,
an ounce or two, in a dinner once in a while.  Vegetables, etc.
Whatever the imagination can concoct.  If you use potato flakes, include
fake margarine and about three ounces per person of soy baco bits.
That's a lot of baco bits, believe me...  They are salty and absolutely
wonderful.  Potato flakes makes the greatest volume per weight, but
there are some issues with the hypoglycemic spike some people might have
to consider.

I package dinners at home.Use a quart freezer bag
to put everything in.  Secure with a small strip of duct tape or
newspaper rubber band.

I make dinners so they take about 16 to 20 oz of water, less for thicker
stew, more water for more souplike.  Boil the water and pour it into the
freezer bag.  Let it sit, as you stir, and eat when ready.  I carry an 18 OZ
capacity titanium pot and a 1 oz burner.  The lighter, aluminum foil windscreen
small size canister and the burner all fit in the pot.  Pretty small and light.

You can vary your dinners so you don't have the same dinner but twice a
month.  I found I preferred more curried lentil dinners and fewer black
beans.  I really liked potato dinners once a week.  They make a LOT of
food for the weight, and taste so, so, good with the margarine and baco
bits. I'm a little suspect about the potato dinner's nutrition, hence
they are a treat - once a week.

This stuff is all bought in bulk.  The idea of shopping as you go has
its fans, but I don't like leaving the trail, and I know what I will eat
on the trail.  Mac and cheese it ain't...  In 2005 My package disappeared from
the Big Lake Religious camp and I had to hitch into Sisters for a
resupply at the store at the edge of town.  $50 for five days.  I
figured that I was spending about $4 a day (2005) if I ate nothing but bulk
food.  My folks live in the bay area and shipping the food was not that
expensive.  I so appreciated my next food drop at Timberline Lodge...
The store bought stuff just wasn't the same.  Where were the baggies?

When I added the mealpack bars, or power bars, or any of the "someone
else does the work" foods, the cost easily doubled.  That said, I'm a
convert to the 4oz bars you can buy for $1.30 or so with shipping -
http://mealpack.com/.  You get 440 calories for not much more than a
buck!!!  You have to buy a minimum of 50 bars, but that's not a big deal.

Jeff
Laramie, WY


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Sun Feb 12 23:23:51 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 21:23:51 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] resupply strategy father & son JMT
 2017
In-Reply-To: <o7m30m+1r4vgd1@YahooGroups.com>
References: <o7kqvl+1722nkp@YahooGroups.com>
 <D11F73A7-78DE-44B6-A472-80DE2369A12A@ymail.com>
 <CABr5Ysocm+2xrQP3q-=-9ZZ7-JuxgHm6_qYNvAv+gdFwzekzRg@mail.gmail.com>
 <0a7901d283d2$94558890$bd0099b0$@mountaineducation.org>
 <CABr5Ysp-qt9OYKJuDb9pK7FiiC47H5W=K4D23ZxfTpBay9fcVQ@mail.gmail.com>	<0b5b01d283ef$e21adf40$a6509dc0$@mountaineducation.org>	<o7m0ai+1sn9qvu@YahooGroups.com>
 <o7m30m+1r4vgd1@YahooGroups.com>
Message-ID: <107c01d285b9$5d2ed540$178c7fc0$@mountaineducation.org>

More snow coming in!

 

So what does this mean for this summer? Has the total snowfall for this winter exceeded that of 2011? If there were very few people on the JMT the end of July that year due to all the snow, how long will the snow remain covering the trail this year?

 

?and we have yet another series of snow storms about to hit the sierra!

 

Does this mean that people can?t hike the JMT this year? Of course, not! Unless new powder snow continues to fall into June, the snowpack will consolidate around May and make for easy snow-hiking. 

 

The issue will be how long it takes for this deep snowpack in the Sierra to completely thaw out! Hikers will have to deal with swiftwater creek crossings until most of the snow is gone, then the creeks will start to slow down and diminish in volume as the snow recedes to higher altitudes into August. 

 

This is the way it used to be ?way back when.? It was a heavy winter back in 1982 when Mountain Education started teaching people about backcountry snow safety. I remember one winter weekend digging down to the 3rd story access door in the roofline apex of the Sierra Club?s Bradley Hut in the Five Lakes Basin near Alpine Meadows Ski Resort that year. There was 28 feet of snow on the ground and over that weekend we received another 5 feet (I?ll never forget digging out the car in the parking lot)!

 

I remember as a kid in the ?60s my family would holiday in Lake Tahoe during the Christmas-New Year school break. I recall driving from the Bay Area to Tahoe City and I would notice, from my perch among the luggage in the back of the station wagon, that we were in the Donner Pass vicinity when we were driving through a tunnel on Highway 80. I remember many winters having to dig out the cars next to out rented cabin in Tahoe City because of all the snow. We could get to the front door of the cabins most of the time without digging stairs up the snowbank out of the parking area, then digging down to the front door. That was normal back then. We have forgotten this!

 

Backpacking in the Sierra started in July, as it still does, but we knew that we would have miles of snow hiking here and there. Even in early August, the prime-time to be in the Sierra, we expected snow on the passes. That was normal back then.

 

So, for all of you wanting to hike the JMT this summer, 

*	You can! It will be a breath-taking experience completely unlike any summer visit you?ve ever had there.
*	Prepare for snow hiking (balance and traction control and know safe ascent, descent, and traverse techniques).
*	Prepare for swiftwater creek crossings (STOP: Stop, Think, Observe, Plan! And you don?t have to cross on the trail!).
*	Anticipate flooded areas, wet feet, wet trails, and water falling down canyon wall from everywhere. 
*	Don?t expect the pack trains to get into the high country very early.
*	There may be a boot-track on the snow to follow, but know how to navigate over snow for your own safety.
*	Carry more food as snow-hiking can be very tiring and slow (plan for 1mph over snow)
*	Anticipate all kinds of weather.
*	Make wise decisions and carry a satellite communication device like the Iridium GO! or Delorme InReach.

 

Mountain Education will start teaching its Snow Advanced courses the end of April and will be publishing Trail/Snow Condition Reports to its FB page and school website after each week-long trip over Forester Pass.

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

 <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org> ned at mountaineducation.org 

 

From: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 8:13 PM
To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] resupply strategy father & son JMT 2017

 

  

Looked up my dates from 2011 from old journals. It was July 23, 24 & 25th on a quick trip to Rae Lakes. We ran into the crew from Mile, Mile and A Half, but it was raining a lot and most of them were holed up in their tents. The fishing was fantastic though!! We lost count of how many we caught between Dollar Lake and Rae Lakes. Very few people out due to all the snow:) 

__._,_.___

  _____  

Posted by: rnperky at sbcglobal.net <mailto:rnperky at sbcglobal.net>  

  _____  


 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/conversations/messages/63791;_ylc=X3oDMTJxc3NycTEzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUzMzQ3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MTY2BG1zZ0lkAzYzNzkxBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQ4Njc4NjM5MQ--?act=reply&messageNum=63791> Reply via web post 

?

 <mailto:rnperky at sbcglobal.net?subject=RE%3A%20%5BJohn%20Muir%20Trail%5D%20resupply%20strategy%20father%20%26%20son%20JMT%202017> Reply to sender 

?

 <mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BJohn%20Muir%20Trail%5D%20resupply%20strategy%20father%20%26%20son%20JMT%202017> Reply to group 

?

 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNzc0bzIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUzMzQ3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MTY2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQ4Njc4NjM5MQ--> Start a New Topic 

?

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  _____  

  <https://s.yimg.com/ru/static/images/yg/img/megaphone/1464031581_phpFA8bON> 

 <https://yho.com/1wwmgg> Have you tried the highest rated email app? 

With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.

  _____  

Please strip out replied-to text if not necessary to your reply.  Just select the unnecessary text and delete it. Failure to strip makes it hard for our Daily Digest members to find the new postings among the repeats. For the crib sheet to take on JMT: http://climber.org/data/JMTCribSheet.pdf or http://bit.ly/JMTcribsheet - Prints on 1 sheet all the essential phone numbers/addresses you&#39;ll want for all services needed on or off the trail. Update or view our member databases about packer-cost sharing, cell reception on the JMT, or see who else will be hiking the JMT when you do--all at http://tinyurl.com/JMT-DBs . We encourage all to join the JohnMuirTrail_Sidebar Yahoo Group, just send a blank email to:
JohnMuirTrail_Sidebar-subscribe at yahoogroups.com <mailto:JohnMuirTrail_Sidebar-subscribe at yahoogroups.com>  

 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYzRncnU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUzMzQ3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MTY2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQ4Njc4NjM5MQ--> Visit Your Group 

*          <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJmamkycTAxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUzMzQ3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MTY2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzE0ODY3ODYzOTE-> New Members 18 

 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkY280ZmNoBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzUzMzQ3MzUEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MTY2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDg2Nzg2Mzkx> 

?  <https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html> Privacy ?  <mailto:johnmuirtrail-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> Unsubscribe ?  <https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/> Terms of Use 





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  <http://y.analytics.yahoo.com/fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407E&a=10001310322279&js=no&resp=img&cf12=CP> 

__,_._,___


From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 23:50:08 2017
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2017 21:50:08 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd:  Thruhiking 2017
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM1-7eVOYEtVoMq6N0NnnED0HBtkv2LfyM6kGXE8-=+5GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <83FE721A-0709-41D5-9DE4-6EA83568F523@att.net>
 <CY1PR20MB02657D8BB62D0CC30616FC07C8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CY1PR20MB0265730FA41FA741D0F3F89EC8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAD3yqM1-7eVOYEtVoMq6N0NnnED0HBtkv2LfyM6kGXE8-=+5GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM1WMB7zN52Bbe_42jz18CAxq=dnn=ZqZ0Cw3AzHSGtweg@mail.gmail.com>

The little market is about 15 miles south of Warner Springs is in San
Ysabel.

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 14 10:03:51 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 16:03:51 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd:  Thruhiking 2017
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM1WMB7zN52Bbe_42jz18CAxq=dnn=ZqZ0Cw3AzHSGtweg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <83FE721A-0709-41D5-9DE4-6EA83568F523@att.net>
 <CY1PR20MB02657D8BB62D0CC30616FC07C8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CY1PR20MB0265730FA41FA741D0F3F89EC8460@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAD3yqM1-7eVOYEtVoMq6N0NnnED0HBtkv2LfyM6kGXE8-=+5GQ@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD3yqM1WMB7zN52Bbe_42jz18CAxq=dnn=ZqZ0Cw3AzHSGtweg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265A6591F8D92C0B430ECAEC8580@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Thank you Tim. I kept thinking Santa Something
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 13, 2017, at 9:50 PM, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The little market is about 15 miles south of Warner Springs is in San
> Ysabel.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jdrewsmith at gmail.com  Tue Feb 14 11:15:55 2017
From: jdrewsmith at gmail.com (Drew Smith)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 17:15:55 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Groove
Message-ID: <CAFiWH3j8SsxYBDa0DQDoX4CeMQ1d9VQVYMua8R=4gR21bH-25g@mail.gmail.com>

My article on section hiking from Walker Pass to L Tahoe is out on Trail
Groove, America's finest hiking magazine. Enjoy!
http://www.trailgroove.com/issue32.html?autoflip=111

Drew

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 15 12:59:18 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:59:18 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Little skills to learn
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265631E8727619A2156FD0DC85B0@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

As well as learning how to set up your tent there are small things to learn that will really help
Have someone show you how to thread a needle and sew a simple seam. You don't need an extra pair of pants if you can sew up that seam or tear. I've done it for lots of hikers but don't count on there being a 
4-Her out there to help. 
If your eye sight is iffy use a needle threader. It's that little flat metal device with a piece of wire attached to it in those small plastic commercial sewing kits. 
My thin Patagonia shorts went over 10,000 miles before I retired them. The rear end of those is a mass of darns and patches. Yeah yeah!! I get it Overkill but I wanted the same hiking shorts to do the TC
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 15:15:36 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:15:36 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] PCTA releases an additional 15 thru permits a day (today).
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=h21faXQppEDeMPqkK8KkWY6ygKf361Ls7bo16noi-qFA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=gbDn4KxnhEdm_Yqg4fBo-gwUhO1X4zV7NE+w1nOotS+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=h9myO_fQtQfXGgG+j5C7m5QssnAMvJU7uQ1dFdVPiftw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=iSNk-Z13b40spBKaqXuWkS+C=Ebjc_QAKQnsMG6VAxzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=hsMh1D_m55H-bsqq-rA4mO2shWmA+q7hrqcFkMmaLNvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=h21faXQppEDeMPqkK8KkWY6ygKf361Ls7bo16noi-qFA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=h2O8WOwzWn=pzMX4y__E+SF=KKfnKFFX9gNkKzA3FJ1w@mail.gmail.com>

The 50 permits a day limitation is filling up fast. Good luck everybody!

Anyone receive their permit via email from the PCTA?

I applied for a permit starting on the 15th of Feb. So far- no contact from
the PCTA. :0(

All the best,

Paint

From davefajer at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 15:58:29 2017
From: davefajer at gmail.com (Dave Fajer)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 13:58:29 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCTA releases an additional 15 thru permits a day
 (today).
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=h2O8WOwzWn=pzMX4y__E+SF=KKfnKFFX9gNkKzA3FJ1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=gbDn4KxnhEdm_Yqg4fBo-gwUhO1X4zV7NE+w1nOotS+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=h9myO_fQtQfXGgG+j5C7m5QssnAMvJU7uQ1dFdVPiftw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=iSNk-Z13b40spBKaqXuWkS+C=Ebjc_QAKQnsMG6VAxzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=hsMh1D_m55H-bsqq-rA4mO2shWmA+q7hrqcFkMmaLNvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=h21faXQppEDeMPqkK8KkWY6ygKf361Ls7bo16noi-qFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=h2O8WOwzWn=pzMX4y__E+SF=KKfnKFFX9gNkKzA3FJ1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ8rqZmeXAXE6L4n4-prXWsx5nKaaxL3VfXHbcu6d_Veu9kf_g@mail.gmail.com>

PYW,

no need to wait IMHO...they will email it to you when you on trail.....

Coastal

On Feb 15, 2017 1:15 PM, "Paint YW" <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> wrote:

> The 50 permits a day limitation is filling up fast. Good luck everybody!
>
> Anyone receive their permit via email from the PCTA?
>
> I applied for a permit starting on the 15th of Feb. So far- no contact from
> the PCTA. :0(
>
> All the best,
>
> Paint
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From adammacri3 at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 15 10:50:35 2017
From: adammacri3 at hotmail.com (adam macri)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:50:35 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB0664488931AA1B3ADB51269D815B0@CY1PR15MB0664.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

Hey Adam here, I am new to the pct and was wondering if I should take some kind of survivalist course or just do some good quality research instead


 -------A-d -a-m-----

From adammacri3 at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 15 12:50:22 2017
From: adammacri3 at hotmail.com (adam macri)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:50:22 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB066460A999EE69DEE10B57C1815B0@CY1PR15MB0664.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

hey yall, question, how do you get gps navigation on a blackberry without using a data plan?


 -------A-d -a-m-----

From adammacri3 at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 15 12:51:45 2017
From: adammacri3 at hotmail.com (adam macri)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:51:45 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fw: Getting GPS for blackberry
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR15MB066460A999EE69DEE10B57C1815B0@CY1PR15MB0664.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CY1PR15MB066460A999EE69DEE10B57C1815B0@CY1PR15MB0664.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB066416E9E16EA23A5D14B24C815B0@CY1PR15MB0664.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>



 -------A-d -a-m-----


________________________________
From: adam macri <adammacri3 at hotmail.com>
Sent: February 15, 2017 1:50 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject:


hey yall, question, how do you get gps navigation on a blackberry without using a data plan?


 -------A-d -a-m-----

From adammacri3 at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 15 12:52:59 2017
From: adammacri3 at hotmail.com (adam macri)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:52:59 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fw:  survivalist courses vs research
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR15MB0664488931AA1B3ADB51269D815B0@CY1PR15MB0664.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CY1PR15MB0664488931AA1B3ADB51269D815B0@CY1PR15MB0664.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR15MB066430E29BCFD58E2C91E224815B0@CY1PR15MB0664.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>



Hey Adam here, I am new to the pct and was wondering if I should take some kind of survivalist course or just do some good quality research instead


 -------A-d -a-m-----

From sebastian.opalko at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 17:01:34 2017
From: sebastian.opalko at gmail.com (sebastian.opalko at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:01:34 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] (no subject)
Message-ID: <4k4ejngtk3rj80soemhp637q.1487199205657@email.lge.com>

Wrong forum I suppose. I'd go to a phone forum like xda or ask blackberry directly.?
------ Original message------From: adam macriDate: Wed, Feb 15, 2017 5:44 PMTo: pct-l at backcountry.net;Cc: Subject:[pct-l] (no subject)
hey yall, question, how do you get gps navigation on a blackberry without using a data plan? -------A-d -a-m-----_______________________________________________Pct-L mailing listPct-L at backcountry.netTo unsubscribe, or change options visit:http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-lList Archives:http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From pctpanama at aol.com  Fri Feb 17 08:39:05 2017
From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 06:39:05 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Not receiving
Message-ID: <2E15DD86-5497-40F9-8915-50814F3DC3A1@aol.com>

 Not Receiving list anymore is it still in operation.   

"Sent from my iPhone"

       Brian 

From darren at osten.net  Fri Feb 17 18:07:49 2017
From: darren at osten.net (Darren E. Osten)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 16:07:49 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Not receiving
Message-ID: <016401d2897b$0b583ac0$2208b040$@osten.net>

I have signed up with two email accounts and neither get the digests.  I
have to just read the archives.  Very old school.

 

*	Darren


From troopharrison at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 20:57:07 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 20:57:07 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Not receiving
In-Reply-To: <016401d2897b$0b583ac0$2208b040$@osten.net>
References: <016401d2897b$0b583ac0$2208b040$@osten.net>
Message-ID: <C03B3057-1DF0-4021-BEC2-0B1474A2CE53@gmail.com>

Testing Darren...

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 17, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Darren E. Osten <darren at osten.net> wrote:
> 
> I have signed up with two email accounts and neither get the digests.  I
> have to just read the archives.  Very old school.
> 
> 
> 
> *    Darren
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From richardb10 at live.com  Fri Feb 17 21:15:18 2017
From: richardb10 at live.com (Richard Brinkman)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 03:15:18 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Not receiving
In-Reply-To: <C03B3057-1DF0-4021-BEC2-0B1474A2CE53@gmail.com>
References: <016401d2897b$0b583ac0$2208b040$@osten.net>
 <C03B3057-1DF0-4021-BEC2-0B1474A2CE53@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CO2PR16MB006083093889FF4B186EDA4AA75C0@CO2PR16MB0060.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

Rodger That Sabrina :)

Roadwalker


-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Sabrina
Harrison
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 6:57 PM
To: Darren E. Osten
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Not receiving

Testing Darren...

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 17, 2017, at 6:07 PM, Darren E. Osten <darren at osten.net> wrote:
> 
> I have signed up with two email accounts and neither get the digests.  
> I have to just read the archives.  Very old school.
> 
> 
> 
> *    Darren
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From logboy at airmail.cc  Fri Feb 17 18:48:45 2017
From: logboy at airmail.cc (logboy at airmail.cc)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 16:48:45 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Dinner Food - A system...
In-Reply-To: <e0dadbc8-6c8e-8f3f-9651-ba54b787a381@gmail.com>
References: <4D72F57E.8040602@olc.edu>
 <e0dadbc8-6c8e-8f3f-9651-ba54b787a381@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9202a4400f93d8cb861bff2bfb953c03@airmail.cc>

Do you have any recipes? That curried lentil sounds good :)

Logan

On 2017-02-12 14:58, Jeffrey Olson wrote:
> I sent this out 10 years or so ago, and post it periodically.
> 
> My favorite dinners are a compilation of cheap, healthy components.
> There are four basic levels.
> 
> The first level is the base; pasta, instant rice, cous cous, polenta
> (grits) or potato flakes, my favorite.  4 oz for the first couple 
> weeks,
> 6 oz for the rest of the hike.
> 
> The second level is a dehydrated soup; split pea, black bean (with 
> extra
> salt) or my favorite, curried lentil.  2 oz for the first couple weeks,
> and 3-4 oz for the rest of the hike.
> 
> The third level is the "binder."  I never knew about binders until I 
> got
> disgusted with prepackaged freeze dried food - mostly price.  The 
> binder
> is the ingredient that ties everything else together.  Rice and black
> bean soup mix gets old real fast.
> 
> The binder I favor is parmesian cheese - Kraft or some other generic
> version. The stuff lasts forever and has good fat content.  For the
> first two weeks - 2oz, and 3-4 oz for the rest of the hike.  You can
> carry oil or margarine, fake and tubbed, but I've found that good old
> Kraft Parmesian makes me smack my lips as I wolf down dinner.  I 
> usually
> include an ounce of 4% dehydrated (Nido) milk as another binder.
> 
> The fourth level is where you get creative, and can use the dehydrator.
> Anything goes.  An oddity I like is to include dehydrated blueberries,
> an ounce or two, in a dinner once in a while.  Vegetables, etc.
> Whatever the imagination can concoct.  If you use potato flakes, 
> include
> fake margarine and about three ounces per person of soy baco bits.
> That's a lot of baco bits, believe me...  They are salty and absolutely
> wonderful.  Potato flakes makes the greatest volume per weight, but
> there are some issues with the hypoglycemic spike some people might 
> have
> to consider.
> 
> I package dinners at home.Use a quart freezer bag
> to put everything in.  Secure with a small strip of duct tape or
> newspaper rubber band.
> 
> I make dinners so they take about 16 to 20 oz of water, less for 
> thicker
> stew, more water for more souplike.  Boil the water and pour it into 
> the
> freezer bag.  Let it sit, as you stir, and eat when ready.  I carry an 
> 18 OZ
> capacity titanium pot and a 1 oz burner.  The lighter, aluminum foil 
> windscreen
> small size canister and the burner all fit in the pot.  Pretty small 
> and light.
> 
> You can vary your dinners so you don't have the same dinner but twice a
> month.  I found I preferred more curried lentil dinners and fewer black
> beans.  I really liked potato dinners once a week.  They make a LOT of
> food for the weight, and taste so, so, good with the margarine and baco
> bits. I'm a little suspect about the potato dinner's nutrition, hence
> they are a treat - once a week.
> 
> This stuff is all bought in bulk.  The idea of shopping as you go has
> its fans, but I don't like leaving the trail, and I know what I will 
> eat
> on the trail.  Mac and cheese it ain't...  In 2005 My package 
> disappeared from
> the Big Lake Religious camp and I had to hitch into Sisters for a
> resupply at the store at the edge of town.  $50 for five days.  I
> figured that I was spending about $4 a day (2005) if I ate nothing but 
> bulk
> food.  My folks live in the bay area and shipping the food was not that
> expensive.  I so appreciated my next food drop at Timberline Lodge...
> The store bought stuff just wasn't the same.  Where were the baggies?
> 
> When I added the mealpack bars, or power bars, or any of the "someone
> else does the work" foods, the cost easily doubled.  That said, I'm a
> convert to the 4oz bars you can buy for $1.30 or so with shipping -
> http://mealpack.com/.  You get 440 calories for not much more than a
> buck!!!  You have to buy a minimum of 50 bars, but that's not a big 
> deal.
> 
> Jeff
> Laramie, WY
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 18 04:18:01 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 10:18:01 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Dinner Food - A system...
In-Reply-To: <9202a4400f93d8cb861bff2bfb953c03@airmail.cc>
References: <4D72F57E.8040602@olc.edu>
 <e0dadbc8-6c8e-8f3f-9651-ba54b787a381@gmail.com>,
 <9202a4400f93d8cb861bff2bfb953c03@airmail.cc>
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB02656AF7393EB0DD34279222C85C0@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

There is an ready made instant curry lentil soup by Nile Spice or Taste Adventure. It can be eaten by adding either hot or cold water. I never get tired of it. You can buy it in bulk section at health food stores or on line. Instant soups make a great base for dinner soup or stew. I add organic dried vegetables,nuts,buckwheat noodles if I'm cooking. For most of PCT and all of CDT the first times,I just mixed it with cold water. By the time I had my tent set up and gear organized it was food. Even worked for lunch. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 17, 2017, at 11:13 PM, "logboy at airmail.cc" <logboy at airmail.cc> wrote:
> 
> Do you have any recipes? That curried lentil sounds good :)
> 
> Logan
> 
>> On 2017-02-12 14:58, Jeffrey Olson wrote:
>> I sent this out 10 years or so ago, and post it periodically.
>> My favorite dinners are a compilation of cheap, healthy components.
>> There are four basic levels.
>> The first level is the base; pasta, instant rice, cous cous, polenta
>> (grits) or potato flakes, my favorite.  4 oz for the first couple weeks,
>> 6 oz for the rest of the hike.
>> The second level is a dehydrated soup; split pea, black bean (with extra
>> salt) or my favorite, curried lentil.  2 oz for the first couple weeks,
>> and 3-4 oz for the rest of the hike.
>> The third level is the "binder."  I never knew about binders until I got
>> disgusted with prepackaged freeze dried food - mostly price.  The binder
>> is the ingredient that ties everything else together.  Rice and black
>> bean soup mix gets old real fast.
>> The binder I favor is parmesian cheese - Kraft or some other generic
>> version. The stuff lasts forever and has good fat content.  For the
>> first two weeks - 2oz, and 3-4 oz for the rest of the hike.  You can
>> carry oil or margarine, fake and tubbed, but I've found that good old
>> Kraft Parmesian makes me smack my lips as I wolf down dinner.  I usually
>> include an ounce of 4% dehydrated (Nido) milk as another binder.
>> The fourth level is where you get creative, and can use the dehydrator.
>> Anything goes.  An oddity I like is to include dehydrated blueberries,
>> an ounce or two, in a dinner once in a while.  Vegetables, etc.
>> Whatever the imagination can concoct.  If you use potato flakes, include
>> fake margarine and about three ounces per person of soy baco bits.
>> That's a lot of baco bits, believe me...  They are salty and absolutely
>> wonderful.  Potato flakes makes the greatest volume per weight, but
>> there are some issues with the hypoglycemic spike some people might have
>> to consider.
>> I package dinners at home.Use a quart freezer bag
>> to put everything in.  Secure with a small strip of duct tape or
>> newspaper rubber band.
>> I make dinners so they take about 16 to 20 oz of water, less for thicker
>> stew, more water for more souplike.  Boil the water and pour it into the
>> freezer bag.  Let it sit, as you stir, and eat when ready.  I carry an 18 OZ
>> capacity titanium pot and a 1 oz burner.  The lighter, aluminum foil windscreen
>> small size canister and the burner all fit in the pot.  Pretty small and light.
>> You can vary your dinners so you don't have the same dinner but twice a
>> month.  I found I preferred more curried lentil dinners and fewer black
>> beans.  I really liked potato dinners once a week.  They make a LOT of
>> food for the weight, and taste so, so, good with the margarine and baco
>> bits. I'm a little suspect about the potato dinner's nutrition, hence
>> they are a treat - once a week.
>> This stuff is all bought in bulk.  The idea of shopping as you go has
>> its fans, but I don't like leaving the trail, and I know what I will eat
>> on the trail.  Mac and cheese it ain't...  In 2005 My package disappeared from
>> the Big Lake Religious camp and I had to hitch into Sisters for a
>> resupply at the store at the edge of town.  $50 for five days.  I
>> figured that I was spending about $4 a day (2005) if I ate nothing but bulk
>> food.  My folks live in the bay area and shipping the food was not that
>> expensive.  I so appreciated my next food drop at Timberline Lodge...
>> The store bought stuff just wasn't the same.  Where were the baggies?
>> When I added the mealpack bars, or power bars, or any of the "someone
>> else does the work" foods, the cost easily doubled.  That said, I'm a
>> convert to the 4oz bars you can buy for $1.30 or so with shipping -
>> http://mealpack.com/.  You get 440 calories for not much more than a
>> buck!!!  You have to buy a minimum of 50 bars, but that's not a big deal.
>> Jeff
>> Laramie, WY
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon Feb 20 15:49:59 2017
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 13:49:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pct-l] how's the PCT in SoCal?
Message-ID: <201702202149.v1KLnxxg012657@server-f.oakapple.net>


Whenever there's this much rain, the PCT takes a hit.
But I haven't seen any news at pcta.org.
I'm particularly wondering about the trail between Mt Laguna and
Paradise Cafe, an area I'll be visiting in March.

Likewise, I don't see any updates about the kickoff at adzpctko.org.

From rickrparker at icloud.com  Mon Feb 20 21:21:30 2017
From: rickrparker at icloud.com (Rick Parker)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 21:21:30 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] how's the PCT in SoCal?
Message-ID: <A81D6672-74DB-4D06-8734-C9A20010D14A@icloud.com>

Keep us posted on the here on your Laguna to Paradise Cafe.  I will be thru there on April 4-6 or so. 

From rickrparker at icloud.com  Mon Feb 20 21:27:09 2017
From: rickrparker at icloud.com (Rick Parker)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 21:27:09 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Sand Fire Alternative
Message-ID: <7D8B04B5-193E-4D23-99DD-99AF199F7684@icloud.com>

I talked to the folks at KOA in Acton (Mile 444) and they said the trail is open from the Sand Fire last year.  I don?t want to sound as an authority and I am not the speaking as the burning bush - no pun intended, so don?t take this as a point of expertise.  I would suppose the rains will take a toll everywhere in the recent years fire zones.  That notwithstanding there is a road an HalfMile?s 425 (RD0425B) marker I see on the Google Earth with the HalfMile overlay.  It?s called Bear Trap Rd and appears to be fresh cut so Poodle Dog Bush may not be a problem?  On the Google Maps and Google Earth, it looks like a ridge cut fire break winding itself down toward Alisio Canyon Rd, Left on Edison Rd, Right on Assarte Canyon Rd into what appears to be a massive RV Park area.  Then hitch to KOA looks to be 3 milesish down Soledad Canyon Hwy.  Any knowledge on this as a viable alternative in the event the Sand Canyon Fire is closed?  I think I?ll have plenty of time waiting for Sierra snow to melt a good bit.

PS.  Thank you HalfMile for this great trip planning tool.  If you don?t have the KMZ or KML in Google Earth, you are really missing out!

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 21 20:04:21 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 02:04:21 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Hike
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265DAC915FFFE9DE76C4C6AC8500@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

I am hoping  that a phone or computer "self-corrected" to change hike to hitch in a recent post. 
But ,just in case ,so that there's no confusion,and because it comes up every year, hiking the PCT means just that. Hiking on foot from Mexico to Canada. You can do anything you want. It is your hike ,but if you do not walk the whole way --including reasonable alternatives ---you have hiked,possibly the hike you always wanted to do.  But, don't put yourself on the list having done the PCT or any of the other trails. Those that claim to have done the whole trail and didn't ,always seem to have met someone who eventually says something. Maybe you really want to hitch and hike the PCT. Great.  Go for it. Everyone can have their own goals. We all know that Cheryl Strayed hiked a section of the PCT. That's what she intended to do! Then she wrote a great book about what she felt like out there. It's all valuable 
Reasonable alternatives mean any walkable way around closed trail (burns,washouts avalanches etc). To me ,it does not mean,cause you want to keep drinking tonight in the next town. Or "my friends are getting a ride and I'll miss them if I walk the alternative route". 
Before there was so much trail ,there were lots of road walks. Now ,at times ,we have to go back to them because the trail is burned. Or, maybe there is poodledog bush making the trail impassible. 
Two years ago I found a perfectly fine route into Idyllwild walking on trail ,road,trail,dirt road,quiet back streets ,trail around the area that people hitched around. The standard story was that it was too dangerous a road to hike upon. It took me about 4-5 hours. Yes ,it's boring. Yeah, you have to find a bathroom spot before you walk along a road in front of people's houses. At times taken me 2-3 days on road walks. There were famous road walks on the AT. Does anyone remember the ice cream lady? I've very politely asked some farmer or nice cowboy if I could camp on private land by their creek. 
I had to promise I would not cook. At the time ,I didn't.  I had to show them that I didn't even carry a pot to cook in. But all of that is a part of what you are learning out there.
 One time a wonderful couple stopped me before I made it to the river "camp spot". They put me in their extra room,made me dinner ,showed me the exquisite decorative Spurs that that cowboy made. Then,he got up in the morning at 5am to make me pancakes so that I could be on my way by 6am. We shared stories for hours. I will never forget them. 
That 3 mile walk on the Acton road takes less than 20mins   Then ,your hike will not have an asterisk or disclaimer. Every time you do something like that, you make it easier the next time and pretty soon you have hitched hundreds of miles. Again --If that's what you want to do ,fine. 
At this point there is a long road walk around the big fire area after Whitewater. It will take a while. Remember to get water where you can. If you do choose to hitch,watch out for the dope dealer woman who was giving rides for pay around that section. You might wonder (think about),if she is dealing in acid etc etc. etc,how stoned is she driving you to Big Bear?I'd rather not hear about the dead hikers scraped off the turns on the way to the mountains. I'm hoping that you all make it to Canada. It's worth the walk every step of the way
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 21 20:31:22 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 02:31:22 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Hike
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265778EA1D7744462BA48B3C8500@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

I was wrong about the Lake Fire closure.  Trail now open if you hike it in one day. 
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone

From moodyjj at comcast.net  Wed Feb 22 05:49:26 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 11:49:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Hike
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR20MB0265DAC915FFFE9DE76C4C6AC8500@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CY1PR20MB0265DAC915FFFE9DE76C4C6AC8500@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <153652916.119106571.1487764166540.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

US Olympic track & field coaches wanna talk to you. 

----- Original Message -----

From: "marmot marmot" <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> 
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:04:21 PM 
Subject: [pct-l] Hike 


... That 3 mile walk on the Acton road takes less than 20mins .... 



From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 22 06:50:51 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 12:50:51 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Hike
In-Reply-To: <153652916.119106571.1487764166540.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <CY1PR20MB0265DAC915FFFE9DE76C4C6AC8500@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>,
 <153652916.119106571.1487764166540.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB02659EAAD88D01399E86162DC8500@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Whoops !!!  I left out words 20min per mile. That should teach me to read it one more time. Most folks can do 3miles per hour
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 3:49 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> US Olympic track & field coaches wanna talk to you. 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> From: "marmot marmot" <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> 
> To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 9:04:21 PM 
> Subject: [pct-l] Hike 
> 
> 
> ... That 3 mile walk on the Acton road takes less than 20mins .... 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 22 09:06:05 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 15:06:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] ADZPCTKO RIP?
References: <1713720092.2508642.1487775965614.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1713720092.2508642.1487775965614@mail.yahoo.com>

Can we assume the ADZPCTKO has passed? It was once a nice little event. In 2009 I was assigned a spot in the Section Hiker Exclusion Zone. Made some friends. Ate a possibly unauthorized burrito on Sunday morning before taking off for Warner Springs.

A victim of its own success?

From weathercarrot at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 22 12:58:08 2017
From: weathercarrot at hotmail.com (Weathercarrot -)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 18:58:08 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Feb 22 Snowpack and Bay Area Walks
Message-ID: <BN6PR13MB10733B0772C2577B64D24B98AE500@BN6PR13MB1073.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>

The latest CA snowpack chart is showing the high Sierra south of Tahoe at or above the record 1983 level for this date.  With more snow coming this weekend, it looks like we'll stay ahead of it for the time being, although the extended forecast shows a dry period starting next week.   Interesting note - you'll notice on the chart that the big melt in 1983 didn't kick in until the first week of May, with the snowpack remaining level through April.  So for this year, we'd need a very wet and cold spring to stay in record territory.


http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action


Also, of interest to perhaps a few on pct-l, I've recently compiled a new gallery on my website called Bay Area Walks, which is a collection of hikes in the Bay Area over the past 5 years.  Thanks to Shroomer for introducing me to several of those areas.  As usual, these shots are more effective in full screen on something bigger than a phone.   There's other new stuff on the site as well.


https://weathercarrot.smugmug.com/Weathercarrot-photos/Bay-Area-Walks

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 22 14:08:26 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:08:26 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Things that don't make sense
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265C6C9A22FE5988935F130C8500@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

I can have brain synapse glitch and at times computer/ phone glitch.So ,if what I write doesn't make sense, just ask. People did and I hope it is all fixed now. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

From mip8llin at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 21 18:28:07 2017
From: mip8llin at hotmail.com (Leo Lin)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 00:28:07 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
Message-ID: <CY4PR18MB152664BF5E70B3D4CB1E81CD84500@CY4PR18MB1526.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>

I am a newbie to PCT and have questions:


1. Does anyone know exactly from which mile to which mile required a bear can?


2. PCT is closed due to powerhouse fire from mile 478.2-492.  Does anyone have suggestions where to stay overnight along the detour route?  Halfmile has provided the Historic Rock Inn, which only has 3 motel rooms, I may not luck enough to get it.


Thanks very much in advance for your help and advise.

Cherry

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 22 15:16:05 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 21:16:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
References: <1608444017.2803202.1487798165950.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1608444017.2803202.1487798165950@mail.yahoo.com>

http://www.sierrawild.gov/bears/food-storage-map
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 2/21/17, Leo Lin <mip8llin at hotmail.com> wrote
 
  1. Does anyone know exactly from which mile to which mile
 required a bear can?
 
 

From teresadattolo at gmail.com  Wed Feb 22 15:56:16 2017
From: teresadattolo at gmail.com (Teresa D)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 13:56:16 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
In-Reply-To: <CY4PR18MB152664BF5E70B3D4CB1E81CD84500@CY4PR18MB1526.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CY4PR18MB152664BF5E70B3D4CB1E81CD84500@CY4PR18MB1526.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGcXdJa_X6-rm=C=T=gc2otvORkYKRVM6BAcrOqyFG0Ldp9FbA@mail.gmail.com>

1. Expect to carry a bear can from Kennedy meadows (mile 702) to Sonora
pass (mile 1017). Alternatively, you can pick up your can at mile
744/750 if you detour into lone pine via mulkey pass/cottonwood pass. Most
people don't do this as it is only a few days past Kennedy meadows.

You now also need a can through the section in lassen park north of Chester
(mile 1344 to 1363), if you camp overnight in this stretch. If you hike
through the section in one day without camping in it you technically don't
need a can.

If you don't mind it, it's not a bad idea to keep your bear canister for
longer than legally required. They do make food security and storage pretty
darn easy.

2. The historic Rock inn is only 7.5mi into the detour route. You don't
need to stay there to do the detour. You can stay at Casa de Luna (the
andersons) around mile 478, as long as they are welcoming hikers, or
anywhere on the Pct before the closure (though camping isn't exactly
great/ample in this area). Your first camping option after starting the
closure detour route is ~12miles into the detour, at the upper shake
campground. You rejoin the PCT shortly after this, and are back to your
normal camping options/conditions. Most people can walk the ~13 mile detour
just fine in one day without needing to stop for a night. If you don't
 think you can do that, please arrange for a room ahead of time at the
historic rock inn. There is no appropriate place to camp along the
road-walk route.

Best of luck Leo!

-Teresa

On Tuesday, February 21, 2017, Leo Lin <mip8llin at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I am a newbie to PCT and have questions:
>
>
> 1. Does anyone know exactly from which mile to which mile required a bear
> can?
>
>
> 2. PCT is closed due to powerhouse fire from mile 478.2-492.  Does anyone
> have suggestions where to stay overnight along the detour route?  Halfmile
> has provided the Historic Rock Inn, which only has 3 motel rooms, I may not
> luck enough to get it.
>
>
> Thanks very much in advance for your help and advise.
>
> Cherry
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net <javascript:;>
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Wed Feb 22 19:17:33 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 17:17:33 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
In-Reply-To: <CAGcXdJa_X6-rm=C=T=gc2otvORkYKRVM6BAcrOqyFG0Ldp9FbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CY4PR18MB152664BF5E70B3D4CB1E81CD84500@CY4PR18MB1526.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGcXdJa_X6-rm=C=T=gc2otvORkYKRVM6BAcrOqyFG0Ldp9FbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6ecb01d28d72$9cdca620$d695f260$@mountaineducation.org>

Keep in mind that the Horseshoe Meadows road out of Lone Pine may not open
until sometime after mid-May, in case you might need to get off the PCT and
to town this way. It is one helluva road walk if the thing is closed!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Teresa D
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 1:56 PM
To: Leo Lin <mip8llin at hotmail.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire

1. Expect to carry a bear can from Kennedy meadows (mile 702) to Sonora pass
(mile 1017). Alternatively, you can pick up your can at mile
744/750 if you detour into lone pine via mulkey pass/cottonwood pass. Most
people don't do this as it is only a few days past Kennedy meadows.

You now also need a can through the section in lassen park north of Chester
(mile 1344 to 1363), if you camp overnight in this stretch. If you hike
through the section in one day without camping in it you technically don't
need a can.

If you don't mind it, it's not a bad idea to keep your bear canister for
longer than legally required. They do make food security and storage pretty
darn easy.

2. The historic Rock inn is only 7.5mi into the detour route. You don't need
to stay there to do the detour. You can stay at Casa de Luna (the
andersons) around mile 478, as long as they are welcoming hikers, or
anywhere on the Pct before the closure (though camping isn't exactly
great/ample in this area). Your first camping option after starting the
closure detour route is ~12miles into the detour, at the upper shake
campground. You rejoin the PCT shortly after this, and are back to your
normal camping options/conditions. Most people can walk the ~13 mile detour
just fine in one day without needing to stop for a night. If you don't
think you can do that, please arrange for a room ahead of time at the
historic rock inn. There is no appropriate place to camp along the road-walk
route.

Best of luck Leo!

-Teresa

On Tuesday, February 21, 2017, Leo Lin <mip8llin at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I am a newbie to PCT and have questions:
>
>
> 1. Does anyone know exactly from which mile to which mile required a 
> bear can?
>
>
> 2. PCT is closed due to powerhouse fire from mile 478.2-492.  Does 
> anyone have suggestions where to stay overnight along the detour 
> route?  Halfmile has provided the Historic Rock Inn, which only has 3 
> motel rooms, I may not luck enough to get it.
>
>
> Thanks very much in advance for your help and advise.
>
> Cherry
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net <javascript:;>
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
_______________________________________________
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Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 22 22:12:13 2017
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:12:13 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM0VByvM0v3xsmEYPKtSpdbHE7snk+zjyA3aSC4c6-1o3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CY4PR18MB152664BF5E70B3D4CB1E81CD84500@CY4PR18MB1526.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAD3yqM08bQ05=6RD5L_2sOsfqe84BoHjMm3oBk7LZ-n+EfrUDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD3yqM3vemQSwXiSh1q3SM6ePnKDhGxHi42k=zmrGCjaNf685w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD3yqM0VByvM0v3xsmEYPKtSpdbHE7snk+zjyA3aSC4c6-1o3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM2D51KxH2VnZSnnAOjb8VbKonpy6W=xRwUPpbuBUeZf1g@mail.gmail.com>

As for the powerhouse fire detour, in '15 when we hiked the trail, we
stayed at a wide place along the road walk (479.8).  It was away from the
road, flat, with good coverage.  All and ask not a bad location.

On Feb 22, 2017 12:51 PM, "Leo Lin" <mip8llin at hotmail.com> wrote:

I am a newbie to PCT and have questions:


1. Does anyone know exactly from which mile to which mile required a bear
can?


2. PCT is closed due to powerhouse fire from mile 478.2-492.  Does anyone
have suggestions where to stay overnight along the detour route?  Halfmile
has provided the Historic Rock Inn, which only has 3 motel rooms, I may not
luck enough to get it.


Thanks very much in advance for your help and advise.

Cherry
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

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http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Wed Feb 22 22:31:24 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 20:31:24 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM2D51KxH2VnZSnnAOjb8VbKonpy6W=xRwUPpbuBUeZf1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CY4PR18MB152664BF5E70B3D4CB1E81CD84500@CY4PR18MB1526.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAD3yqM08bQ05=6RD5L_2sOsfqe84BoHjMm3oBk7LZ-n+EfrUDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD3yqM3vemQSwXiSh1q3SM6ePnKDhGxHi42k=zmrGCjaNf685w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD3yqM0VByvM0v3xsmEYPKtSpdbHE7snk+zjyA3aSC4c6-1o3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD3yqM2D51KxH2VnZSnnAOjb8VbKonpy6W=xRwUPpbuBUeZf1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c90d898-6e84-e38d-1516-459105256806@marcusschwartz.com>

I remember there being several unused/closed campgrounds or picnic areas
by the dried-up lakes on the detour.  They may be suitable -- I'm not
sure if camping is actually allowed there though.

 -=Marcus

On 02/22/2017 08:12 PM, Tim Umstead wrote:
> As for the powerhouse fire detour, in '15 when we hiked the trail, we
> stayed at a wide place along the road walk (479.8).  It was away from the
> road, flat, with good coverage.  All and ask not a bad location.
> 
> On Feb 22, 2017 12:51 PM, "Leo Lin" <mip8llin at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I am a newbie to PCT and have questions:
> 
> 
> 1. Does anyone know exactly from which mile to which mile required a bear
> can?
> 
> 
> 2. PCT is closed due to powerhouse fire from mile 478.2-492.  Does anyone
> have suggestions where to stay overnight along the detour route?  Halfmile
> has provided the Historic Rock Inn, which only has 3 motel rooms, I may not
> luck enough to get it.
> 
> 
> Thanks very much in advance for your help and advise.
> 
> Cherry
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 

From mel at tungate.com  Thu Feb 23 00:15:46 2017
From: mel at tungate.com (Mel)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 22:15:46 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM2D51KxH2VnZSnnAOjb8VbKonpy6W=xRwUPpbuBUeZf1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CY4PR18MB152664BF5E70B3D4CB1E81CD84500@CY4PR18MB1526.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAD3yqM08bQ05=6RD5L_2sOsfqe84BoHjMm3oBk7LZ-n+EfrUDg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD3yqM3vemQSwXiSh1q3SM6ePnKDhGxHi42k=zmrGCjaNf685w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD3yqM0VByvM0v3xsmEYPKtSpdbHE7snk+zjyA3aSC4c6-1o3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD3yqM2D51KxH2VnZSnnAOjb8VbKonpy6W=xRwUPpbuBUeZf1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5EBEF1B-CB0C-4D0E-9312-DE276284FAEF@tungate.com>

Stay with the Anderson's at 578, then walk / hitch to the detour.  There are places to camp as the detour meets the PCT.  

Mel



> On Feb 22, 2017, at 8:12 PM, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> As for the powerhouse fire detour, in '15 when we hiked the trail, we
> stayed at a wide place along the road walk (479.8).  It was away from the
> road, flat, with good coverage.  All and ask not a bad location.
> 
> On Feb 22, 2017 12:51 PM, "Leo Lin" <mip8llin at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I am a newbie to PCT and have questions:
> 
> 
> 1. Does anyone know exactly from which mile to which mile required a bear
> can?
> 
> 
> 2. PCT is closed due to powerhouse fire from mile 478.2-492.  Does anyone
> have suggestions where to stay overnight along the detour route?  Halfmile
> has provided the Historic Rock Inn, which only has 3 motel rooms, I may not
> luck enough to get it.
> 
> 
> Thanks very much in advance for your help and advise.
> 
> Cherry
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 


From tcantor33 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 13:12:48 2017
From: tcantor33 at gmail.com (Todd Cantor)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 11:12:48 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] how's the PCT in SoCal?
In-Reply-To: <A81D6672-74DB-4D06-8734-C9A20010D14A@icloud.com>
References: <A81D6672-74DB-4D06-8734-C9A20010D14A@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <C4B3D66C-E76C-4F41-A587-1867C374F82C@gmail.com>

I was up for a day hike on Devil?s Slide in Idyllwild yesterday and drove home thru Warner Springs. I also drove up to Mt. Laguna last weekend and it is beautiful. If is one of the prettiest years in that area in recent memory. Everything is green, water is still coming off the Laguna and Palomar Watersheds and the lakes around Julian and Santa Isabel are all full again, which we have not seen in a long, long time. I don?t have any additional info on the springs in the area, but compared to the last ten years it is definitely green so the springs should be in pretty good shape. Cold Nights though I suspect so make sure to carry a puffy jacket and winds can kick up so a barrier layer wind jacket will be a nice to have as well.

The opening sections are going to be awesome, with lots of wildflowers and plenty of beautiful green scenery.  


> On Feb 20, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Keep us posted on the here on your Laguna to Paradise Cafe.  I will be thru there on April 4-6 or so. 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From rickrparker at icloud.com  Thu Feb 23 16:23:46 2017
From: rickrparker at icloud.com (Rick Parker)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 16:23:46 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
Message-ID: <9929F66B-201B-4F9B-8EBB-6DEE15B8A0E9@icloud.com>

Mel, I think you meant 478.  

#justsayin'

From mel at tungate.com  Thu Feb 23 19:06:20 2017
From: mel at tungate.com (Mel)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 17:06:20 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
In-Reply-To: <9929F66B-201B-4F9B-8EBB-6DEE15B8A0E9@icloud.com>
References: <9929F66B-201B-4F9B-8EBB-6DEE15B8A0E9@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <2A19AC18-831D-4206-B725-7297B7F6F21C@tungate.com>

Yes my mistake.  Sorry.  

Mel


> On Feb 23, 2017, at 2:23 PM, Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> Mel, I think you meant 478.  
> 
> #justsayin'
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 23 19:37:59 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 01:37:59 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Wasp Spray
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265A9B2E004BB0EDF44DB44C8520@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Has anyone out there heard of buying Wasp Spray from Home Depot or similar stores as a better replacement for Bear Spray. 
The story that I heard was if it was used on a human they had to go to a hospital so therefore some people were using it as a better than usual deterrent for Grizzlies in Alaska. 
Marmot 


Sent from my iPhone

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Thu Feb 23 22:36:04 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 20:36:04 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Wasp Spray
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR20MB0265A9B2E004BB0EDF44DB44C8520@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CY1PR20MB0265A9B2E004BB0EDF44DB44C8520@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NznfBVY21wXqp9eQv_xU9L6zd8pw8z8C1OGnodFmOkGg9g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 5:37 PM, marmot marmot
<marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone out there heard of buying Wasp Spray from Home Depot or similar stores as a better replacement for Bear Spray.
> The story that I heard was if it was used on a human they had to go to a hospital so therefore some people were using it as a better than usual deterrent for Grizzlies in Alaska.

Dunno about bears, but....
http://www.snopes.com/crime/prevent/waspspray.asp

From melaniekclarke at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 23:09:03 2017
From: melaniekclarke at gmail.com (Melanie Clarke)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 21:09:03 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] how's the PCT in SoCal?
In-Reply-To: <C4B3D66C-E76C-4F41-A587-1867C374F82C@gmail.com>
References: <A81D6672-74DB-4D06-8734-C9A20010D14A@icloud.com>
 <C4B3D66C-E76C-4F41-A587-1867C374F82C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKeeMLc4LbkrQhDeNz8vocnV7-N_CLfJSrye7PAfcb=_8As84g@mail.gmail.com>

Are you able to check out the conditions on the Apache Peak to Fuller Ridge
area?  That area can get really dicey!

Diet Plan

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Todd Cantor <tcantor33 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I was up for a day hike on Devil?s Slide in Idyllwild yesterday and drove
> home thru Warner Springs. I also drove up to Mt. Laguna last weekend and it
> is beautiful. If is one of the prettiest years in that area in recent
> memory. Everything is green, water is still coming off the Laguna and
> Palomar Watersheds and the lakes around Julian and Santa Isabel are all
> full again, which we have not seen in a long, long time. I don?t have any
> additional info on the springs in the area, but compared to the last ten
> years it is definitely green so the springs should be in pretty good shape.
> Cold Nights though I suspect so make sure to carry a puffy jacket and winds
> can kick up so a barrier layer wind jacket will be a nice to have as well.
>
> The opening sections are going to be awesome, with lots of wildflowers and
> plenty of beautiful green scenery.
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com> wrote:
> >
> > Keep us posted on the here on your Laguna to Paradise Cafe.  I will be
> thru there on April 4-6 or so.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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>
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From tcantor33 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 00:30:32 2017
From: tcantor33 at gmail.com (Todd Cantor)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 22:30:32 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] how's the PCT in SoCal?
In-Reply-To: <CAKeeMLc4LbkrQhDeNz8vocnV7-N_CLfJSrye7PAfcb=_8As84g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A81D6672-74DB-4D06-8734-C9A20010D14A@icloud.com>
 <C4B3D66C-E76C-4F41-A587-1867C374F82C@gmail.com>
 <CAKeeMLc4LbkrQhDeNz8vocnV7-N_CLfJSrye7PAfcb=_8As84g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A618F474-FBF0-42BA-A43E-BBAE8DEEDC09@gmail.com>

Maybe next week.  

-Todd


> On Feb 23, 2017, at 9:09 PM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Are you able to check out the conditions on the Apache Peak to Fuller Ridge area?  That area can get really dicey!
> 
> Diet Plan
> 
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Todd Cantor <tcantor33 at gmail.com <mailto:tcantor33 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> I was up for a day hike on Devil?s Slide in Idyllwild yesterday and drove home thru Warner Springs. I also drove up to Mt. Laguna last weekend and it is beautiful. If is one of the prettiest years in that area in recent memory. Everything is green, water is still coming off the Laguna and Palomar Watersheds and the lakes around Julian and Santa Isabel are all full again, which we have not seen in a long, long time. I don?t have any additional info on the springs in the area, but compared to the last ten years it is definitely green so the springs should be in pretty good shape. Cold Nights though I suspect so make sure to carry a puffy jacket and winds can kick up so a barrier layer wind jacket will be a nice to have as well.
> 
> The opening sections are going to be awesome, with lots of wildflowers and plenty of beautiful green scenery.
> 
> 
> > On Feb 20, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com <mailto:rickrparker at icloud.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Keep us posted on the here on your Laguna to Paradise Cafe.  I will be thru there on April 4-6 or so.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 


From bh.csuchico at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 01:33:13 2017
From: bh.csuchico at gmail.com (be hope)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 14:33:13 +0700
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
Message-ID: <CAPWAYrrVWPfnJPU+CRNZB_Qqt5+hepS6WuwoUGtS_7pRUByJOQ@mail.gmail.com>

The PCT passes thru the Warner Valley campround (a short walk from
Drakesbad), each campsite has a bear box.  One could also take a short
detour from the PCT and stay at one of the Summit Lake campgrounds (N or S)
which also have bear boxes.

You now also need a can through the section in lassen park north of Chester
> ? ?
> (mile 1344 to 1363), if you camp overnight in this stretch. If you hike
> ? ?
> through the section in one day without camping in it you technically don't
> ? ?
> need a can
> ? ?
> longer than legally required. They do make food security and storage pretty
> ? ?
> darn easy.
>
>

From lucecruz13 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 06:12:43 2017
From: lucecruz13 at gmail.com (Luce Cruz)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 05:12:43 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Wasp Spray
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NznfBVY21wXqp9eQv_xU9L6zd8pw8z8C1OGnodFmOkGg9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CY1PR20MB0265A9B2E004BB0EDF44DB44C8520@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CALV1NznfBVY21wXqp9eQv_xU9L6zd8pw8z8C1OGnodFmOkGg9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPdO7FzOWuggwSfqurubW0Rfo2Tver-PMF2YeM9CiK0ypKEaCg@mail.gmail.com>

Bear spray canisters have built in safety features. I've never seen a can
of wasp spray with anything near the equivalent safety features. I also
wouldn't want to expose my self and others to poison (pyrethrins) out in
the middle of nowhere.

Pepper spray is safer if you are accidentally exposed, which may be more
likely than needing bear spray.

If you hike bear smart, you won't have to worry about bears anyways. I go
hiking to leave my fears behind anyways.

-- 
Luce Cruz

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 24 07:30:27 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 13:30:27 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Bear spray alternative
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB026582A1FAE2105E7F339E6DC8520@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Yes. Heard it from some guy who spends lots of time in Alaska. So I thought I'd ask this group. Just thinking of Grizzly country. I hate carrying bear spray but think on trails like the GDT (not the PCT)it makes sense. I thought if it worked better I would think of switching. All those concerns mean I won't 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

From pctpanama at aol.com  Fri Feb 24 08:52:35 2017
From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 06:52:35 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Head lamps
Message-ID: <9826775F-5757-4158-9858-0148A43A7062@aol.com>

What headlamps seem to be the most popular out on the trail now days? I know petzl dominated the market years ago.   Anyone have any experience with the black diamond spot? 

"Sent from my iPhone"

       Brian 

From logboy at airmail.cc  Fri Feb 24 13:31:11 2017
From: logboy at airmail.cc (logboy)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:31:11 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Head lamps
In-Reply-To: <9826775F-5757-4158-9858-0148A43A7062@aol.com>
References: <9826775F-5757-4158-9858-0148A43A7062@aol.com>
Message-ID: <28c86451-42ba-b359-8d88-20e0bf9c9648@airmail.cc>

Petzl just came out with new versions of their headlamps that can take a 
rechargeable battery pack(sold separately) that is charged with a USB 
cable. I just ordered the tikka and the rechargeable battery from 
amazon. I like the idea of not having to buy batteries but still can if 
needed.

https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/CLASSIC-headlamps/TIKKA

https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/ACTIVE-headlamps/CORE


On 2/24/2017 6:52 AM, Brian Gill wrote:
> What headlamps seem to be the most popular out on the trail now days? I know petzl dominated the market years ago.   Anyone have any experience with the black diamond spot?
>
> "Sent from my iPhone"
>
>         Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From aaronjamesnicholson at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 13:32:42 2017
From: aaronjamesnicholson at gmail.com (Aaron Nicholson)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:32:42 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Unsubscribe?
In-Reply-To: <CABD_-P6Wd8Q4zyR-ucuK5f3i8OzaWHee8VJ424hV8aCDzViKDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABD_-P4KnyeAydJa-s9jSsZX+TQZfDOGkk-iF+OwUgCng3Jukg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P5ps5M11MhPq=-45VX4zSuGMnr8W6zPR_Cvn8jgX_X43Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P7pJFncRV=dnwpSpjZX-nAPHt12Hva5hvvqav+aWEAuLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P665P8ViXqnsOtFbrYj9_EtW6CJ_57FqQMAU+zpoE=Q5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P7TSy1amM9EnzFs=VaATYaZ-09F9m3bj46Um=JgkonqYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P4zf80d2xEdrRKTo1HNK4xqZ++Whaf8ap-Ug4i3nzym8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P6Wd8Q4zyR-ucuK5f3i8OzaWHee8VJ424hV8aCDzViKDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABD_-P4gejuckZAVykLaOV=LuLccEB0rMudKowxOrVR8Q8Z1Jw@mail.gmail.com>

So, stupid question, but what's the deal with the unsubscribe option not
working? I tried three times but no success...I'm still getting all the
emails. I finished my thru in September 2013 and I think I'm just going to
browse the archives of the PCT-L instead of being an active subscriber, but
I can't seem to escape, ha ha. If the administrator is reading this, do you
think you could remove me?

From mothertruckertoo at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 13:35:46 2017
From: mothertruckertoo at gmail.com (kelly bilak)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 14:35:46 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Unsubscribe?
In-Reply-To: <CALpTs8EHkF+8XnNK2POwm-vZ7Ae3dYoEE5bvgp+gRG2jD3vEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABD_-P4KnyeAydJa-s9jSsZX+TQZfDOGkk-iF+OwUgCng3Jukg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P5ps5M11MhPq=-45VX4zSuGMnr8W6zPR_Cvn8jgX_X43Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P7pJFncRV=dnwpSpjZX-nAPHt12Hva5hvvqav+aWEAuLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P665P8ViXqnsOtFbrYj9_EtW6CJ_57FqQMAU+zpoE=Q5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P7TSy1amM9EnzFs=VaATYaZ-09F9m3bj46Um=JgkonqYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P4zf80d2xEdrRKTo1HNK4xqZ++Whaf8ap-Ug4i3nzym8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P6Wd8Q4zyR-ucuK5f3i8OzaWHee8VJ424hV8aCDzViKDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P4gejuckZAVykLaOV=LuLccEB0rMudKowxOrVR8Q8Z1Jw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALpTs8EHkF+8XnNK2POwm-vZ7Ae3dYoEE5bvgp+gRG2jD3vEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALpTs8G=DrneXGK==NeAoYuLp7iqRs8nO-8G+HomEjt5DpHy-A@mail.gmail.com>

Me too.  Have tried to unsubscrib countless times

On Feb 24, 2017 2:32 PM, "Aaron Nicholson" <aaronjamesnicholson at gmail.com>
wrote:

So, stupid question, but what's the deal with the unsubscribe option not
working? I tried three times but no success...I'm still getting all the
emails. I finished my thru in September 2013 and I think I'm just going to
browse the archives of the PCT-L instead of being an active subscriber, but
I can't seem to escape, ha ha. If the administrator is reading this, do you
think you could remove me?
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From logboy at airmail.cc  Fri Feb 24 14:32:09 2017
From: logboy at airmail.cc (logboy)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 12:32:09 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Unsubscribe?
In-Reply-To: <CALpTs8G=DrneXGK==NeAoYuLp7iqRs8nO-8G+HomEjt5DpHy-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABD_-P4KnyeAydJa-s9jSsZX+TQZfDOGkk-iF+OwUgCng3Jukg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P5ps5M11MhPq=-45VX4zSuGMnr8W6zPR_Cvn8jgX_X43Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P7pJFncRV=dnwpSpjZX-nAPHt12Hva5hvvqav+aWEAuLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P665P8ViXqnsOtFbrYj9_EtW6CJ_57FqQMAU+zpoE=Q5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P7TSy1amM9EnzFs=VaATYaZ-09F9m3bj46Um=JgkonqYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P4zf80d2xEdrRKTo1HNK4xqZ++Whaf8ap-Ug4i3nzym8w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P6Wd8Q4zyR-ucuK5f3i8OzaWHee8VJ424hV8aCDzViKDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABD_-P4gejuckZAVykLaOV=LuLccEB0rMudKowxOrVR8Q8Z1Jw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALpTs8EHkF+8XnNK2POwm-vZ7Ae3dYoEE5bvgp+gRG2jD3vEwQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALpTs8G=DrneXGK==NeAoYuLp7iqRs8nO-8G+HomEjt5DpHy-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d52e9f54-5216-184c-fa1d-99515252b450@airmail.cc>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhSW9vDTRyY


On 2/24/2017 11:35 AM, kelly bilak wrote:
> Me too.  Have tried to unsubscrib countless times
>
> On Feb 24, 2017 2:32 PM, "Aaron Nicholson" <aaronjamesnicholson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> So, stupid question, but what's the deal with the unsubscribe option not
> working? I tried three times but no success...I'm still getting all the
> emails. I finished my thru in September 2013 and I think I'm just going to
> browse the archives of the PCT-L instead of being an active subscriber, but
> I can't seem to escape, ha ha. If the administrator is reading this, do you
> think you could remove me?
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From rickrparker at icloud.com  Fri Feb 24 20:06:05 2017
From: rickrparker at icloud.com (Rick Parker)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 20:06:05 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Head lamps
Message-ID: <B2BD7954-C0EA-45F4-9865-D788BA61FC43@icloud.com>

I have last years model equivalent of this years REACTIK.  I have the extra battery just for the safety aspect and thinking of the desert.

I have a RAV 3 port 37 watt smart charger to charge my iPhone, Battery, Headlamp simultaneously at A/C stops for the maximum charge and speed that each device will accept.  For the strong limber back - flat bellies hiker:

   https://www.ravpower.com/RAVPower-QC-3.0-40W-4-Port-Charging-Station-Black.html <https://www.ravpower.com/RAVPower-QC-3.0-40W-4-Port-Charging-Station-Black.html>

Will obviously charge one more device i.e. extra battery for headlamp, camera etc. 

Rick




From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Fri Feb 24 20:34:52 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 18:34:52 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Head lamps
In-Reply-To: <9826775F-5757-4158-9858-0148A43A7062@aol.com>
References: <9826775F-5757-4158-9858-0148A43A7062@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5e71c74a-6cfa-3829-99b8-e869dae8d6e0@marcusschwartz.com>

I personally really liked my Zebralight.  The body is a bit heavier than
most headlights (about 2oz rather than 1oz, if I recall), but it uses a
single AA battery instead of the more common 3 AAA arrangement.  This
means that carrying spares is lighter.  (Plus, AA batteries are more
capacity-per-weight than AAA -- so spares have more light-per-weight
than 3x AAA lights).

Plus, it supported a wide range of brightnesses, including a really dim
one suitable for use inside the tent.

Plus, if you unscrew the tail cap about a half turn, it can't turn on.
So it won't get turned on inside your pack.

Because of all this, I ended up going through about 3 AA batteries on
the entire PCT last year (I used Engergizer e2 Lithium Advanced, which
last quite a bit longer than alkaline in high-drain applications like
lights.  And they weigh less).  Though note that I didn't night hike
much (since I hate it -- it just seems dangerous, un-scenic, and cold to
me).

All that said, I don't think I saw anybody else with a Zebralight.  So
it's definitely not the most popular on the trail.  But I vote for it!

 -=Marcus

On 02/24/2017 06:52 AM, Brian Gill wrote:
> What headlamps seem to be the most popular out on the trail now days?
> I know petzl dominated the market years ago.   Anyone have any
> experience with the black diamond spot?
> 
> "Sent from my iPhone"
> 
> Brian _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing
> list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> 

From bob_geib at mac.com  Fri Feb 24 16:54:46 2017
From: bob_geib at mac.com (Robert L Geib)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 22:54:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [pct-l] Wasp Spray
In-Reply-To: <CAPdO7FzOWuggwSfqurubW0Rfo2Tver-PMF2YeM9CiK0ypKEaCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1369f565-95c1-40b7-94d6-0c90f96c2834@me.com>

For consideration, whereas Bear Spray is an "irritant" and specifically designed for it's intended use, the suggested alternative of Wasp Spray is not bear-friendly. ?It is a poison. ??

As we teach the Boy Scouts going to Philmont, and area where there is an extremely high bear density (approximately 1 per square mile), the recommended bear procedures are not just about your safety (the boys), but also about the safety of the bear. ? Once you get the hang of them, pun intended, they become a nightly ritual.?

--> Link:?http://www.sccovington.com/philmont/trek_info/bearInformation/bears_procedures.htm

For anyone unfamiliar, this simple guidance is well proven to protect both the camper, and the bear population. ?What I would substitute in this case, especially in areas where hanging is a problem or where you are unskilled, is to use a Ursack. ?Not only is this useful for bears, but for those other little forest friends whom are even more likely to poach you dinner. ? ?I've used one for years, and they are efficient, and have a minor weight penalty (versus loss of your supplies).?

Here is an example from REI. ?https://www.rei.com/product/895691/ursack-s293-allwhite-bear-bag
- Bob

On Feb 24, 2017, at 04:12 AM, Luce Cruz <lucecruz13 at gmail.com> wrote:

Bear spray canisters have built in safety features. I've never seen a can
of wasp spray with anything near the equivalent safety features. I also
wouldn't want to expose my self and others to poison (pyrethrins) out in
the middle of nowhere.

Pepper spray is safer if you are accidentally exposed, which may be more
likely than needing bear spray.

If you hike bear smart, you won't have to worry about bears anyways. I go
hiking to leave my fears behind anyways.

-- 
Luce Cruz
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From mip8llin at hotmail.com  Sat Feb 25 08:38:25 2017
From: mip8llin at hotmail.com (Leo Lin)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 14:38:25 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Can & Powerhouse Fire
In-Reply-To: <CAPWAYrrVWPfnJPU+CRNZB_Qqt5+hepS6WuwoUGtS_7pRUByJOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPWAYrrVWPfnJPU+CRNZB_Qqt5+hepS6WuwoUGtS_7pRUByJOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY4PR18MB1526B6F973888A69D4B8770584550@CY4PR18MB1526.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>

Thank you very much for all the advises, they are really helpful.  Thank you!!

Cherry

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 11:33 PM, be hope <bh.csuchico at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The PCT passes thru the Warner Valley campround (a short walk from
> Drakesbad), each campsite has a bear box.  One could also take a short
> detour from the PCT and stay at one of the Summit Lake campgrounds (N or S)
> which also have bear boxes.
> 
> You now also need a can through the section in lassen park north of Chester
>>  
>> (mile 1344 to 1363), if you camp overnight in this stretch. If you hike
>>  
>> through the section in one day without camping in it you technically don't
>>  
>> need a can
>>  
>> longer than legally required. They do make food security and storage pretty
>>  
>> darn easy.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From edjarrett at msn.com  Sat Feb 25 22:16:16 2017
From: edjarrett at msn.com (Ed Jarrett)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 04:16:16 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Head lamps
In-Reply-To: <28c86451-42ba-b359-8d88-20e0bf9c9648@airmail.cc>
References: <9826775F-5757-4158-9858-0148A43A7062@aol.com>,
 <28c86451-42ba-b359-8d88-20e0bf9c9648@airmail.cc>
Message-ID: <BY2PR19MB0456284848DBEB723A599AB8AA540@BY2PR19MB0456.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

I've been using the Black Diamond Revolt for a couple of years now and it is also rechargeable via a USB cable. Now all of my electronics will charge off the same battery. It uses 3 AAA's but they have to be Black Diamonds version if you want to recharge them in the headlamp. They include a special circuit in the battery to allow them to determine if they should be recharged or not. Prevent trying to recharge a non-rechargable battery.


Ed Jarrett (Eeyore)
Web site: http://aclayjar.net
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdJarrett53
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ed.jarrett.71


________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of logboy <logboy at airmail.cc>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 11:31 AM
To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Head lamps

Petzl just came out with new versions of their headlamps that can take a
rechargeable battery pack(sold separately) that is charged with a USB
cable. I just ordered the tikka and the rechargeable battery from
amazon. I like the idea of not having to buy batteries but still can if
needed.

https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/CLASSIC-headlamps/TIKKA

https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/ACTIVE-headlamps/CORE


On 2/24/2017 6:52 AM, Brian Gill wrote:
> What headlamps seem to be the most popular out on the trail now days? I know petzl dominated the market years ago.   Anyone have any experience with the black diamond spot?
>
> "Sent from my iPhone"
>
>         Brian
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

_______________________________________________
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Pct-L at backcountry.net
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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 26 10:42:32 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 16:42:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop
References: <703917856.1239569.1488127352520.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <703917856.1239569.1488127352520@mail.yahoo.com>

 Maybe this is old news. We drove up to Walker Pass to stretch our legs on the PCT and found that there is a bus top at the PCT: Kern Transit Route 227.
http://kerntransit.org/routes-and-schedules/227-lake-isabella-ridgecrest/

On the trail we ran into Nuts. He said it had been there a couple of years.

There were a couple of patches of minimal snow on the trail and almost a dozen pinyon pine blowdowns bewteen the pass and Morris-Jenkins saddle. Plenty of snow to the north, though.

Gary

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Sun Feb 26 13:40:50 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 11:40:50 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop
In-Reply-To: <703917856.1239569.1488127352520@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <703917856.1239569.1488127352520.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <703917856.1239569.1488127352520@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <97802fa9-5b21-9ddb-4f39-1e8bc2736d9c@marcusschwartz.com>

If I recall, it only runs 3 days a week (Mon Wed Fri), and only stops at
Walker Pass if you've called ahead to schedule a pickup.  Since there's
no phone coverage near Walker Pass, this is hard to do.  The drivers are
supposed to watch for hikers who haven't called, though.

On 02/26/2017 08:42 AM, Gary Schenk wrote:
> Maybe this is old news. We drove up to Walker Pass to stretch our
> legs on the PCT and found that there is a bus top at the PCT: Kern
> Transit Route 227. 
> http://kerntransit.org/routes-and-schedules/227-lake-isabella-ridgecrest/
>
>  On the trail we ran into Nuts. He said it had been there a couple of
> years.
> 
> There were a couple of patches of minimal snow on the trail and
> almost a dozen pinyon pine blowdowns bewteen the pass and
> Morris-Jenkins saddle. Plenty of snow to the north, though.
> 
> Gary _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing
> list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> 

From luckymanhikes at gmail.com  Sun Feb 26 14:52:12 2017
From: luckymanhikes at gmail.com (luckymanhikes)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 13:52:12 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop
Message-ID: <fahywfsoex4nutegpt2y25tj.1488142332504@email.android.com>

I've taken that bus twice. It isn't necessary to call ahead, but you have to flag it down.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> Date: 2/26/17  12:40 PM  (GMT-07:00) To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop 
If I recall, it only runs 3 days a week (Mon Wed Fri), and only stops at
Walker Pass if you've called ahead to schedule a pickup.? Since there's
no phone coverage near Walker Pass, this is hard to do.? The drivers are
supposed to watch for hikers who haven't called, though.

On 02/26/2017 08:42 AM, Gary Schenk wrote:
> Maybe this is old news. We drove up to Walker Pass to stretch our
> legs on the PCT and found that there is a bus top at the PCT: Kern
> Transit Route 227. 
> http://kerntransit.org/routes-and-schedules/227-lake-isabella-ridgecrest/
>
>? On the trail we ran into Nuts. He said it had been there a couple of
> years.
> 
> There were a couple of patches of minimal snow on the trail and
> almost a dozen pinyon pine blowdowns bewteen the pass and
> Morris-Jenkins saddle. Plenty of snow to the north, though.
> 
> Gary _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing
> list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> 
_______________________________________________
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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From bh.csuchico at gmail.com  Sun Feb 26 17:46:13 2017
From: bh.csuchico at gmail.com (be hope)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 06:46:13 +0700
Subject: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop
In-Reply-To: <97802fa9-5b21-9ddb-4f39-1e8bc2736d9c@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <703917856.1239569.1488127352520.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <703917856.1239569.1488127352520@mail.yahoo.com>
 <97802fa9-5b21-9ddb-4f39-1e8bc2736d9c@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <CAPWAYroBOrt9qPncT8=5H3U33=Y67=uLnTLTLsTo0c0eWBUcLw@mail.gmail.com>

On several occassions, I walked north (and up) a short distance from the
pass and phoned home with a solid connection via T Mo.  Maybe the call went
thru ATT --- part of a T Mo ATT settlement.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 2:40 AM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:

> .  Since there's
> no phone coverage near Walker Pass, this is hard to do.
>

From rickrparker at icloud.com  Sun Feb 26 18:43:43 2017
From: rickrparker at icloud.com (Rick Parker)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 18:43:43 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop
Message-ID: <3B565750-6F9F-49D0-A6E3-A4646D36A32F@icloud.com>

A bit of research, last stop in Ridgecrest to Lake Isabella three times at 7:20 AM  2:40 PM  7:00 PM PLUS about 16-18 minutes (about 16-18 miles) I approximate to Walker Pass. 

Is there an actual Bus Stop sign on the Hwy?

Rick

From luckymanhikes at gmail.com  Sun Feb 26 19:53:47 2017
From: luckymanhikes at gmail.com (luckymanhikes)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 18:53:47 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop
Message-ID: <pxm0akhbeg7go625sb3nmsc2.1488160427046@email.android.com>

I don't recall a bus stop sign. I waited at the obvious spot, at the crest near a memorial, and waved a lot to get the speeding driver to stop.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------From: Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com> Date: 2/26/17  5:43 PM  (GMT-07:00) To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop 
A bit of research, last stop in Ridgecrest to Lake Isabella three times at 7:20 AM? 2:40 PM? 7:00 PM PLUS about 16-18 minutes (about 16-18 miles) I approximate to Walker Pass. 

Is there an actual Bus Stop sign on the Hwy?

Rick
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From efuller at planhike.com  Sun Feb 26 22:42:34 2017
From: efuller at planhike.com (Eric)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2017 20:42:34 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] how's the PCT in SoCal?
In-Reply-To: <A618F474-FBF0-42BA-A43E-BBAE8DEEDC09@gmail.com>
References: <A81D6672-74DB-4D06-8734-C9A20010D14A@icloud.com>
 <C4B3D66C-E76C-4F41-A587-1867C374F82C@gmail.com>
 <CAKeeMLc4LbkrQhDeNz8vocnV7-N_CLfJSrye7PAfcb=_8As84g@mail.gmail.com>
 <A618F474-FBF0-42BA-A43E-BBAE8DEEDC09@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D39B86B-A124-4070-9761-775999BF6132@planhike.com>

I think the apache spring area is closed still from like cedar spring or something.. i went thru there in feb and yes it was dicey..

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:30 PM, Todd Cantor <tcantor33 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Maybe next week.  
> 
> -Todd
> 
> 
>> On Feb 23, 2017, at 9:09 PM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Are you able to check out the conditions on the Apache Peak to Fuller Ridge area?  That area can get really dicey!
>> 
>> Diet Plan
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Todd Cantor <tcantor33 at gmail.com <mailto:tcantor33 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I was up for a day hike on Devil?s Slide in Idyllwild yesterday and drove home thru Warner Springs. I also drove up to Mt. Laguna last weekend and it is beautiful. If is one of the prettiest years in that area in recent memory. Everything is green, water is still coming off the Laguna and Palomar Watersheds and the lakes around Julian and Santa Isabel are all full again, which we have not seen in a long, long time. I don?t have any additional info on the springs in the area, but compared to the last ten years it is definitely green so the springs should be in pretty good shape. Cold Nights though I suspect so make sure to carry a puffy jacket and winds can kick up so a barrier layer wind jacket will be a nice to have as well.
>> 
>> The opening sections are going to be awesome, with lots of wildflowers and plenty of beautiful green scenery.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 20, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com <mailto:rickrparker at icloud.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Keep us posted on the here on your Laguna to Paradise Cafe.  I will be thru there on April 4-6 or so.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
>> 
>> List Archives:
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>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 27 08:47:16 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 14:47:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop
References: <1539991230.1686896.1488206836755.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1539991230.1686896.1488206836755@mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, there's a sign with schedule and phone number to call.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 2/26/17, Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com> wrote

 Is there an actual Bus Stop sign on the Hwy?
 

From pctlist at pctwalker.com  Mon Feb 27 12:54:12 2017
From: pctlist at pctwalker.com (Kathi)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:54:12 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] ADZPCTKO
Message-ID: <07e39d90-311b-a0c8-2b73-05505dc850d2@pctwalker.com>

Hello All,

I don't see it mentioned here so I thought I'd post the sad, but 
understandable, news about ADZPCTKO.

 From their website:

They say all good things must come to an end, and so it is with Annual 
Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off. This year, as we have for the 
past 17 years, the ADZPCTKO organizers will gather at Lake Morena County 
Park to greet hikers passing through, offer them a cold (or hot, 
depending on the weather) beverage, and some advice from those who have 
been there before.

But we won't have the trappings that have come to define kick off in 
recent years: hot meals served to hundreds, a vendor fair of items 
uniquely suited to long-distance hiking, a full schedule of informative 
seminars, nightly film presentations, and reunions of previous PCT 
thru-hiker classes. Also missing: overcrowded campsites, overflowing 
septic tanks, long lines for registration and meals, and loud late-night 
parties.

So why end this tradition that is loved by many and reviled by a few?

 From the beginning, our sole purpose has been to help current-year 
aspiring thru hikers. Calming the butterflies. Educating about effective 
equipment, techniques, leave no trace ethics, and how to be an 
ambassador for the Pacific Crest Trail. Providing information about 
current trail, snow, and water conditions. Showing the geology, flora, 
and fauna to be encountered along the way. Even supporting and 
maintaining water caches. We've never wavered from that core mission; as 
the event grew larger and new features were added, we tried to ensure 
that they served that core mission.

But a lot has changed since the first ADZPCTKO in 1999.

Information resources for PCT hikers were sparse then. PCTA had only a 
basic (and mostly static) website hosted on gorp.com <http://gorp.com/>. 
PCT-L was in its infancy. Facebook didn't even exist until five years 
later. There were no Halfmile maps and no Yogi's PCT Handbook. No map 
apps existed, which isn't surprising because no smartphones existed. 
Hikers who wanted ultralight gear had to make their own; a few became so 
good at it that they turned their efforts into small businesses that 
later displayed their wares at ADZPCTKO. With only analog film equipment 
and limited web tools, it was much easier to share your experience with 
other hikers by gathering in small groups.

Small groups? When ADZPCTKO began, a few hundred hikers would attempt a 
thru hike each year, and a sizable portion of them started in the 
several days before or after KO, as that was generally considered to be 
the optimal start date. The number grew slowly but steadily, and KO grew 
with it. And then there was Wild. Trail popularity skyrocketed, so that 
now PCTA issues several thousand permits for hikers starting throughout 
the spring. We have always been cognizant of the bump in daily trail use 
coinciding with KO, but the biggest herd ever out of KO's early days was 
no match for the size of current daily quotas. We don't want to create a 
bigger wave than the one that already exists. An event held on a single 
weekend can do one of two things: reach only a small fraction of this 
year's hikers, or skew the starting dates in a way that creates a huge 
herd (assuming we had the ability to accommodate an ever larger crowd, 
which we don't).

The explosion of alternative information resources and the explosion in 
the number of hikers have simultaneously reduced the need for an event 
like ours and made it less effective -- leaving us to wonder how 
ADZPCTKO 2017 can fulfill that core mission of assisting current-year 
thru hikers.

So that's where we are. Lots of good memories, lots of enduring 
friendships. And the realization that an event that was an essential 
trail stop a few years ago is not right for the PCT of 2017.

As our founder and dear friend Greg "Strider" Hummel said: "No regrets! 
No fears! No worries! No tears!" We hope to see you all out on the 
trail. Have a great hike!


From marianharmon at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 18:01:35 2017
From: marianharmon at gmail.com (Marian Harmon)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 16:01:35 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop
In-Reply-To: <1539991230.1686896.1488206836755@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1539991230.1686896.1488206836755.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1539991230.1686896.1488206836755@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CACAT9hfMrAB+vZ7dLk=BNbrSi9dy_iYpvU9C1LPsS3eer2yziA@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, there is a sign. Also, all of the locals and bus drivers are familiar
with the stop. Kern Transit is VERY hiker friendly. All you have to do is
tell them where you want to get off and they'll drop you. If you get a
particularly nice driver and the bus isn't full, they will also pull in to
the Walker Pass campground just down the hill if you plan to camp there
first. But, not all of them will to do that. I know one who, if they know
they have hikers on the bus, will ask them if they want to use the bathroom
at the campground first and offer to drop them off right in front.  It's
not a long walk, though, from the pass bus stop. Quick fact, Walker Pass is
also the law enforcement cutoff boundary between Kern Valley and
Ridgecrest...so it's common to see KCSO and CHP officers parked at the top
there. It's not unheard of, if the timing is right, for them to give you a
ride either into Lake Isabella or down to Ridgecrest. But again...that's
random and depends on the good graces of the officer.

And FYI... in Ridgecrest, the new WalMart Supercenter opened last fall, so
if you need an extensive resupply, that may be something to consider.
However...because of the high snow this year, Lake Isabella is bursting at
the seams and the rafting on the Kern is top notch. The good news is that
you can catch the bus either direction... or very likely a ride from a
local. We're all very familiar with hiker season up there. :)

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 6:47 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Yes, there's a sign with schedule and phone number to call.
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 2/26/17, Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com> wrote
>
>  Is there an actual Bus Stop sign on the Hwy?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From irontigerjb at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 18:14:38 2017
From: irontigerjb at gmail.com (IronTigerJB)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 18:14:38 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Walker Pass Bus Stop
In-Reply-To: <CACAT9hfMrAB+vZ7dLk=BNbrSi9dy_iYpvU9C1LPsS3eer2yziA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1539991230.1686896.1488206836755.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1539991230.1686896.1488206836755@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CACAT9hfMrAB+vZ7dLk=BNbrSi9dy_iYpvU9C1LPsS3eer2yziA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA-j+ADjtRc1DsAtu-1j1or7UjuHJyCA4DQ8nX1ohSg6uaf_+A@mail.gmail.com>

GREAT info! Thank you, Marian :)

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 6:01 PM, Marian Harmon <marianharmon at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Yes, there is a sign. Also, all of the locals and bus drivers are familiar
> with the stop. Kern Transit is VERY hiker friendly. All you have to do is
> tell them where you want to get off and they'll drop you. If you get a
> particularly nice driver and the bus isn't full, they will also pull in to
> the Walker Pass campground just down the hill if you plan to camp there
> first. But, not all of them will to do that. I know one who, if they know
> they have hikers on the bus, will ask them if they want to use the bathroom
> at the campground first and offer to drop them off right in front.  It's
> not a long walk, though, from the pass bus stop. Quick fact, Walker Pass is
> also the law enforcement cutoff boundary between Kern Valley and
> Ridgecrest...so it's common to see KCSO and CHP officers parked at the top
> there. It's not unheard of, if the timing is right, for them to give you a
> ride either into Lake Isabella or down to Ridgecrest. But again...that's
> random and depends on the good graces of the officer.
>
> And FYI... in Ridgecrest, the new WalMart Supercenter opened last fall, so
> if you need an extensive resupply, that may be something to consider.
> However...because of the high snow this year, Lake Isabella is bursting at
> the seams and the rafting on the Kern is top notch. The good news is that
> you can catch the bus either direction... or very likely a ride from a
> local. We're all very familiar with hiker season up there. :)
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 6:47 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Yes, there's a sign with schedule and phone number to call.
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Sun, 2/26/17, Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com> wrote
> >
> >  Is there an actual Bus Stop sign on the Hwy?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From tcantor33 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 19:40:01 2017
From: tcantor33 at gmail.com (Todd Cantor)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 17:40:01 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] how's the PCT in SoCal?
In-Reply-To: <0D39B86B-A124-4070-9761-775999BF6132@planhike.com>
References: <A81D6672-74DB-4D06-8734-C9A20010D14A@icloud.com>
 <C4B3D66C-E76C-4F41-A587-1867C374F82C@gmail.com>
 <CAKeeMLc4LbkrQhDeNz8vocnV7-N_CLfJSrye7PAfcb=_8As84g@mail.gmail.com>
 <A618F474-FBF0-42BA-A43E-BBAE8DEEDC09@gmail.com>
 <0D39B86B-A124-4070-9761-775999BF6132@planhike.com>
Message-ID: <69DD0FBE-AAE1-48F1-A399-5A648B042AE0@gmail.com>

Hi Guys, 

I am Idyllwild today and it is pouring rain in town so I stopped by the state park office and caught a look at the web cam from the Long Valley Ranger station (8000ft) and it was snowing consistently all day long. The snow is supposed to continue through the night. Don't have any precise measurements but the Dave the state park backcountry ranger was up to Wellman's last Friday and he indicated that he turned back because the route finding was problematic above Wellman's. 

Without getting into the gory details I just wanted to reiterate what Ned has already stated. This year Fuller Ridge is going to be pretty dodgy. Micro spikes and poles might cut it for the brave and/or experienced but as the snow melts and freezes and that Ridge turns to mostly ice hiking crampons and an arrest device are advisable. Slipping and sliding off Fuller Ridge is um......seriously problematic aka deadly. 

Apparently, yesterday SAR pulled two folks off the mountain from the summit hut who had been fine going up but felt the need to call in a rescue to get down. The party in question had hiked up from Humber park and the weather yesterday came in pretty fast. 

I guess my point here is that San Jacinto and more than likely the Berdo's and Gabriel's above 7K are going to be challenging this year for anyone leaving before say mid May. And even then Fuller is likely to be pretty sketchy. 

So, for what it is worth please do not overlook the So. Cal Mountains. San Jacinto is a real mountain with real objective hazards. Fuller Is no BS for five miles. According to the NFS ranger they rescued two to three people a week off the Ridge last year.   I guess the net-net is think about the gear you choose to bring. 

Needless to say, I did not go up solo today, but I am looking forward to some snowshoeing on Deer Springs and the PCT tomorrow assuming it lets up. 

Cheers,
Todd 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 26, 2017, at 8:42 PM, Eric <efuller at planhike.com> wrote:
> 
> I think the apache spring area is closed still from like cedar spring or something.. i went thru there in feb and yes it was dicey..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:30 PM, Todd Cantor <tcantor33 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe next week.  
>> 
>> -Todd
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 23, 2017, at 9:09 PM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are you able to check out the conditions on the Apache Peak to Fuller Ridge area?  That area can get really dicey!
>>> 
>>> Diet Plan
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Todd Cantor <tcantor33 at gmail.com <mailto:tcantor33 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> I was up for a day hike on Devil?s Slide in Idyllwild yesterday and drove home thru Warner Springs. I also drove up to Mt. Laguna last weekend and it is beautiful. If is one of the prettiest years in that area in recent memory. Everything is green, water is still coming off the Laguna and Palomar Watersheds and the lakes around Julian and Santa Isabel are all full again, which we have not seen in a long, long time. I don?t have any additional info on the springs in the area, but compared to the last ten years it is definitely green so the springs should be in pretty good shape. Cold Nights though I suspect so make sure to carry a puffy jacket and winds can kick up so a barrier layer wind jacket will be a nice to have as well.
>>> 
>>> The opening sections are going to be awesome, with lots of wildflowers and plenty of beautiful green scenery.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 20, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Rick Parker <rickrparker at icloud.com <mailto:rickrparker at icloud.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Keep us posted on the here on your Laguna to Paradise Cafe.  I will be thru there on April 4-6 or so.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
>>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
>>>> 
>>>> List Archives:
>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
>>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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From tcantor33 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 21:33:36 2017
From: tcantor33 at gmail.com (Todd Cantor)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 19:33:36 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] List Trolling.
Message-ID: <371DD8F7-107A-469D-8C02-8087961A557C@gmail.com>

Has anyone else gotten inappropriate replies for the spirit of this list. 

How do we report to list moderator. 

-todd

Sent from my iPhone

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Mon Feb 27 22:10:41 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 20:10:41 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] List Trolling.
In-Reply-To: <371DD8F7-107A-469D-8C02-8087961A557C@gmail.com>
References: <371DD8F7-107A-469D-8C02-8087961A557C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nzme5EZqMyxyE-71mCzRGQOaLUP5PReJrorLiO3GxyrCKw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Todd Cantor <tcantor33 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone else gotten inappropriate replies for the spirit of this list.
>
> How do we report to list moderator.

The posts are NOT going through the list software so there is nothing
that the moderator (me) can do.

I've been trying to track these down and have been unable to get far.
Probably what has happened is this: A bot has subscribed to the list,
and when it gets an email from the list, it replies (using a different
email address) to the original poster. There is no easy way I can
think of to combat this.

Sorry

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 28 08:15:24 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 14:15:24 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] ADZPCTKO
In-Reply-To: <07e39d90-311b-a0c8-2b73-05505dc850d2@pctwalker.com>
References: <07e39d90-311b-a0c8-2b73-05505dc850d2@pctwalker.com>
Message-ID: <CY1PR20MB0265ED0BDAFAF27387775C29C8560@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Yes it's sad ,but a number of  us will be there on the normal weekend to welcome ,go through packs,cheer you on. 
Remember that ,if it is close to you ,your Aldhawest Ruck is coming up. There are two in March. Check out Aldhawest.org. That's a place to get "hands on"help with your hike strategy. 
I know that the first Gathering I went to in '87 was really my only time seeing what went into a long distance backpack. I know that there are people planning to do the trail this year who are just as new to this as I was. 
Now I can pack my pack in minutes. In fact, I never need to do anything but add food cause it's always sitting there ready to go. 
It's going to be another great year to hike the PCT
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Kathi <pctlist at pctwalker.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> I don't see it mentioned here so I thought I'd post the sad, but understandable, news about ADZPCTKO.
> 
> From their website:
> 
> They say all good things must come to an end, and so it is with Annual Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off. This year, as we have for the past 17 years, the ADZPCTKO organizers will gather at Lake Morena County Park to greet hikers passing through, offer them a cold (or hot, depending on the weather) beverage, and some advice from those who have been there before.
> 
> But we won't have the trappings that have come to define kick off in recent years: hot meals served to hundreds, a vendor fair of items uniquely suited to long-distance hiking, a full schedule of informative seminars, nightly film presentations, and reunions of previous PCT thru-hiker classes. Also missing: overcrowded campsites, overflowing septic tanks, long lines for registration and meals, and loud late-night parties.
> 
> So why end this tradition that is loved by many and reviled by a few?
> 
> From the beginning, our sole purpose has been to help current-year aspiring thru hikers. Calming the butterflies. Educating about effective equipment, techniques, leave no trace ethics, and how to be an ambassador for the Pacific Crest Trail. Providing information about current trail, snow, and water conditions. Showing the geology, flora, and fauna to be encountered along the way. Even supporting and maintaining water caches. We've never wavered from that core mission; as the event grew larger and new features were added, we tried to ensure that they served that core mission.
> 
> But a lot has changed since the first ADZPCTKO in 1999.
> 
> Information resources for PCT hikers were sparse then. PCTA had only a basic (and mostly static) website hosted on gorp.com <http://gorp.com/>. PCT-L was in its infancy. Facebook didn't even exist until five years later. There were no Halfmile maps and no Yogi's PCT Handbook. No map apps existed, which isn't surprising because no smartphones existed. Hikers who wanted ultralight gear had to make their own; a few became so good at it that they turned their efforts into small businesses that later displayed their wares at ADZPCTKO. With only analog film equipment and limited web tools, it was much easier to share your experience with other hikers by gathering in small groups.
> 
> Small groups? When ADZPCTKO began, a few hundred hikers would attempt a thru hike each year, and a sizable portion of them started in the several days before or after KO, as that was generally considered to be the optimal start date. The number grew slowly but steadily, and KO grew with it. And then there was Wild. Trail popularity skyrocketed, so that now PCTA issues several thousand permits for hikers starting throughout the spring. We have always been cognizant of the bump in daily trail use coinciding with KO, but the biggest herd ever out of KO's early days was no match for the size of current daily quotas. We don't want to create a bigger wave than the one that already exists. An event held on a single weekend can do one of two things: reach only a small fraction of this year's hikers, or skew the starting dates in a way that creates a huge herd (assuming we had the ability to accommodate an ever larger crowd, which we don't).
> 
> The explosion of alternative information resources and the explosion in the number of hikers have simultaneously reduced the need for an event like ours and made it less effective -- leaving us to wonder how ADZPCTKO 2017 can fulfill that core mission of assisting current-year thru hikers.
> 
> So that's where we are. Lots of good memories, lots of enduring friendships. And the realization that an event that was an essential trail stop a few years ago is not right for the PCT of 2017.
> 
> As our founder and dear friend Greg "Strider" Hummel said: "No regrets! No fears! No worries! No tears!" We hope to see you all out on the trail. Have a great hike!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From katyshaw at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 12:34:10 2017
From: katyshaw at gmail.com (Katy Shaw)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 10:34:10 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] ADZPCTKO
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR20MB0265ED0BDAFAF27387775C29C8560@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <07e39d90-311b-a0c8-2b73-05505dc850d2@pctwalker.com>
 <CY1PR20MB0265ED0BDAFAF27387775C29C8560@CY1PR20MB0265.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <30DF1E89-190C-4309-A577-92C9C6609B35@gmail.com>

+1 for the Ruck

I just went to the ALDHA-West Ruck in Cascade Locks and had a pack shakedown by Allgood.  I'll be hiking the PCT this year (I haven't done another long trail before) and I was looking for some input on my gear.  It was a great experience and I learned a lot - highly recommend.

Katy

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 28, 2017, at 6:15 AM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes it's sad ,but a number of  us will be there on the normal weekend to welcome ,go through packs,cheer you on. 
> Remember that ,if it is close to you ,your Aldhawest Ruck is coming up. There are two in March. Check out Aldhawest.org. That's a place to get "hands on"help with your hike strategy. 
> I know that the first Gathering I went to in '87 was really my only time seeing what went into a long distance backpack. I know that there are people planning to do the trail this year who are just as new to this as I was. 
> Now I can pack my pack in minutes. In fact, I never need to do anything but add food cause it's always sitting there ready to go. 
> It's going to be another great year to hike the PCT
> Marmot
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 27, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Kathi <pctlist at pctwalker.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> I don't see it mentioned here so I thought I'd post the sad, but understandable, news about ADZPCTKO.
>> 
>> From their website:
>> 
>> They say all good things must come to an end, and so it is with Annual Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off. This year, as we have for the past 17 years, the ADZPCTKO organizers will gather at Lake Morena County Park to greet hikers passing through, offer them a cold (or hot, depending on the weather) beverage, and some advice from those who have been there before.
>> 
>> But we won't have the trappings that have come to define kick off in recent years: hot meals served to hundreds, a vendor fair of items uniquely suited to long-distance hiking, a full schedule of informative seminars, nightly film presentations, and reunions of previous PCT thru-hiker classes. Also missing: overcrowded campsites, overflowing septic tanks, long lines for registration and meals, and loud late-night parties.
>> 
>> So why end this tradition that is loved by many and reviled by a few?
>> 
>> From the beginning, our sole purpose has been to help current-year aspiring thru hikers. Calming the butterflies. Educating about effective equipment, techniques, leave no trace ethics, and how to be an ambassador for the Pacific Crest Trail. Providing information about current trail, snow, and water conditions. Showing the geology, flora, and fauna to be encountered along the way. Even supporting and maintaining water caches. We've never wavered from that core mission; as the event grew larger and new features were added, we tried to ensure that they served that core mission.
>> 
>> But a lot has changed since the first ADZPCTKO in 1999.
>> 
>> Information resources for PCT hikers were sparse then. PCTA had only a basic (and mostly static) website hosted on gorp.com <http://gorp.com/>. PCT-L was in its infancy. Facebook didn't even exist until five years later. There were no Halfmile maps and no Yogi's PCT Handbook. No map apps existed, which isn't surprising because no smartphones existed. Hikers who wanted ultralight gear had to make their own; a few became so good at it that they turned their efforts into small businesses that later displayed their wares at ADZPCTKO. With only analog film equipment and limited web tools, it was much easier to share your experience with other hikers by gathering in small groups.
>> 
>> Small groups? When ADZPCTKO began, a few hundred hikers would attempt a thru hike each year, and a sizable portion of them started in the several days before or after KO, as that was generally considered to be the optimal start date. The number grew slowly but steadily, and KO grew with it. And then there was Wild. Trail popularity skyrocketed, so that now PCTA issues several thousand permits for hikers starting throughout the spring. We have always been cognizant of the bump in daily trail use coinciding with KO, but the biggest herd ever out of KO's early days was no match for the size of current daily quotas. We don't want to create a bigger wave than the one that already exists. An event held on a single weekend can do one of two things: reach only a small fraction of this year's hikers, or skew the starting dates in a way that creates a huge herd (assuming we had the ability to accommodate an ever larger crowd, which we don't).
>> 
>> The explosion of alternative information resources and the explosion in the number of hikers have simultaneously reduced the need for an event like ours and made it less effective -- leaving us to wonder how ADZPCTKO 2017 can fulfill that core mission of assisting current-year thru hikers.
>> 
>> So that's where we are. Lots of good memories, lots of enduring friendships. And the realization that an event that was an essential trail stop a few years ago is not right for the PCT of 2017.
>> 
>> As our founder and dear friend Greg "Strider" Hummel said: "No regrets! No fears! No worries! No tears!" We hope to see you all out on the trail. Have a great hike!
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.