[pct-l] Permits 2017

Wed Sep 28 13:25:43 CDT 2016

James,

I agree that the system needs improvements, particularly surrounding alpine
environments which take much longer to rebound from environmental impact
than most ecosystems at lower elevations. This is one of those annoying
little intersections of science and policy that will probably never have a
perfect solution and requires an ever-evolving approach. The Southern
Terminus permit limit is a good starting point because it addresses the
majority of hikers and doesn't dictate things like how fast one has to
move. It is minimally intrusive to people's plans compared to quotas that
may be implemented along the way. I think that there are a couple ways this
could be approached in the Sierra, perhaps by utilizing semi-flexible
permitting for that section (say ability to enter within a certain range of
dates depending upon your hiking speed cuz as we all know, things never go
according to plan), but there is still a lot of work that needs to be done
before a mid-way restriction could be responsibly implemented.

Wikipedia

On Sep 28, 2016 1:02 PM, "James Vesely" <veselyjames at gmail.com> wrote:

> Interesting discussion but it fails to resolve the issue of overuse and
> potential negative effects of PCT hikers who are entering high use
> wilderness areas such as in Cleveland/Descanso, Mt. San Jacinto
> wilderness,  Sierra Nevada mountains and others.
>
> Large slugs of PCT hikers are entering National Forest, and National Park
> regions that have very stringent entry quota permits, some of which are
> almost impossible to obtain outside of having a "PCT hiking permit".    I
> am aware that not all PCT hikers with "PCT permits" that start at the
> Mexican boarder make it to "permit required areas" but a substantial number
> of hikers that do make it, seem to have a carte blanche pass that allows
> them to bypass all entry point quotas for any given day of the week in at
> any point on the trail system.  Quotas that were setup to reduce impact and
> crowding are basically worthless when 50 or more (assuming 50/day
> separation) are allowed to enter at their convenience.
>
> A good example of this is what happens in the Sierra Nevada mountains
> during the short hiking season.   In the past PCT hikers were fewer in
> number and a majority of them would normally have completed the southern
> Sierra's by the end of June.  In the year 1993 when the golden spike was
> hammered into the ground to commemorate the PCT, 35 people had completed
> the trail and in the year 2016 the number was 647.   The total number of
> permits issued in 2015 was 4453 and this does not include the hikers, whom,
> as Brick stated do not bother to get thru-hike permits. The number of PCT
> hikers will no doubt continue to rise.
>
> I am a big fan of the PCT and although my attempt at hiking the PCT in 1978
> failed, I have always thought I would give it another try.  In the mean
> time, I still love to do local hikes in the Sierra Nevada mountains and
> during one of my hikes last year I saw first hand evidence of huge crowds
> of hikers (> half were PCT) that I have never seen before.  We all love
> backpacking for different reasons but I believe the main reason so many of
> us enjoy the sport is for the solitude it can offer and for the amazing
> uncrowded pristine scenery it can provide.  Having uncontrolled numbers of
> people entering sensitive back-country wilderness, in what was once a
> thoughtfully regulated quota system, can not only damage sensitive
> wilderness areas but also make the backpacking experience much less
> meaningful.
>
> The impact of large numbers of hikers that basically game the system and
> have legal uncontrolled access to any wilderness area at any time, at any
> place throughout the summer will have to, someday, be addressed before it
> destroys all the main reasons we all enjoy the sport of backpacking so
> much.   I would love to hear input from the backpack community on whether
> they believe this is an issue or not and what should be done if anything.
>
>
> Concerned hiker.
>
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Cody B <moonbeams13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Richard -
> >
> > Permits are required in Yosemite, but not necessarily PCT permits. You
> > could have had a wilderness permit specifically for that are issued by
> the
> > NPS instead.
> >
> > Wikipedia
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 11:44 PM, Richard Brinkman <richardb10 at live.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > In Yosemite, I was asked by a Ranger to show my PCT thru-hiker permit.
> > > Thank goodness I had it, albeit folded in a ziplock.
> > >
> > > Roadwalker, '15
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Cody B
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 3:39 PM
> > > To: Robert E. Riess
> > > Cc: PCT-L
> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Permits 2017
> > >
> > > BR,
> > >
> > > The permit limits are in place to protect the fragile environments and
> > > ecosystems that the Pacific Crest Trail passes through from overuse by
> > > hikers. They are there for a very good reason and it is indeed backed
> by
> > > research on environmental impact. The first several hundred miles are
> > > particularly vulnerable as there are very limited water resources and
> > many
> > > of them cannot support hundreds of hikers draining them in addition to
> > > supplying the necessary water for the native plants and animals.
> > >
> > > It is possible to hike the PCT legally without a long-distance permit
> > > published by the PCTA, but that does require seeking out each permit
> > > individually and doing the research on your own. The permit issued by
> the
> > > PCTA is actually a collection of permits by the National Parks Service,
> > > State Parks Systems, Forest Service, and others that allows you to pass
> > > through the entire trail corridor without seeking out each necessary
> > permit
> > > individually. It is a service provided to us and there is a limit on
> that
> > > service so that the trail is still there, beautiful, and most
> > importantly,
> > > usable for years to come.
> > >
> > > I saw a lot of disregard for permits on the trail this summer and it
> > > concerns me. People ranted about "the government trying to control
> their
> > > rights saying when they can or can't hike" (I would like to note that
> the
> > > PCTA is not a government organization) while not paying any regard to
> the
> > > reason those permits are there.
> > >
> > > PLEASE be conscientious about this. If we aim to be stewards of the
> > > environment and participate in LNT practices then paying mind to the
> > permit
> > > system and the permit limits is extremely important. They are not there
> > to
> > > limit us. They are there to protect us and the beauty we love to
> indulge
> > > ourselves in.
> > >
> > > Passionately,
> > >
> > > Wikipedia
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 5:19 PM, Robert E. Riess <robert.riess at cox.net
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Congratulations to the Class of 2016, who were lucky enough to draw a
> > > > PCTA Long Distance Permit starting at the border, and who had no
> > > > ADZPCTKO to inspire and enlighten them. I am saddened by what I hope
> > > > is a temporary halt to the world-class hiking event which for 17
> great
> > > > years gave so much to so many, provided by so few, and who did it so
> > > > very, very well. I am thankful for the opportunity to have partaken.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Certainly, a 2016 PCT through hike is an accomplishment of great
> pride
> > > > and satisfaction.  Some were not so fortunate.  Some from overseas
> > > > could not get a permit to conform with their travel arrangements and
> > > > just gave up on their goal of hiking the PCT in 2016.  At least one
> > > > hiker known to me had to cancel his airline ticket and rebook to
> > > > conform with his PCTA permit at an additional cost of over $1000.
> > > > Some were scared to death of being stopped by the US Forest Service
> > > > because their only chance to hike did not conform with the date of
> > > > their PCTA Long Distance Permit.  They were in genuine fear of having
> > > their passports confiscated for “illegal hiking.”
> > > > Many US and foreign hikers had permits which were at variance with
> the
> > > > actual dates of their starts, and many more hiked without a permit of
> > > > any kind.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In 2015 and 2016, the PCTA, on its own authority as trail manager,
> > > > established a daily quota of 50 Long Distance Permits starting at the
> > > > border during the height of through-hiker season.  I was told by Beth
> > > > Boyst, the PCT Trail Manager for the US Forest Service, that the
> limit
> > > > of
> > > > 50 permits per day was her idea, stating also that she arrived at the
> > > > decision based upon exhaustive research into the increase in hiker
> > > > numbers experienced during the years 2012-2014, and their attendant
> > > impact on the
> > > > first 100 miles of the PCT.   This confused me in that one agency
> > limited
> > > > the number of permits and another took credit for the decision, so on
> > > > April
> > > > 14 of this year, I submitted a Freedom of Information Act request
> > > > asking for all documentation discussing or supporting the 50 permit
> > > daily limit.
> > > > The US Forest Service reply to my FOIA request providing 4 pages of
> > > > responsive documents was received on July 7.  I will provide my
> > > > original FOIA request and the Forest Service’s response by email to
> > > > anyone who requests them.  I have read these documents many times,
> and
> > > > I have found no basis whatsoever for limiting daily hiking permits.
> > > > This is the official response of the government of the United States
> > > > to a valid request for information.  By law, it is exhaustive and
> > > > complete.  There is no more information to consider.  No anecdotes,
> no
> > > > feelings, no opinions, no guesses.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, with the 2016 PCT through hiking season drawing to a close, there
> > > > will be many hikers with recent experiences on the trail who may be
> > > > willing to share their experiences and offer their opinions regarding
> > > > the necessity and efficacy of the 2015-2016 permit limitations.  IMO,
> > > > this is necessary if the PCT hiking community wants to influence the
> > > > 2017 hiking season on the PCT, either in favor of permit limitations,
> > > > or opposed to them.  You should not expect to be asked for your
> > > > experiences and opinions by the US Forest Service or the PCTA.  Some
> > > > of us recall how the permit limitations were implemented for the past
> > > > 2 years.  There was no public discussion, there was no opportunity
> for
> > > > hikers to state their positions, and there was no advance notice.
> > > > Hikers first became aware of the 50 permit per day limitation
> > > > simultaneously with the opening of the issuance of permits by the
> > > > PCTA.  There is every indication there will be more of the same in
> > > 2017.  Congratulations to the Class of 2016.  Good Luck to the Class of
> > > > 2017.   BR
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