[pct-l] Troublemakers

[Joe Roth]

My wife and I encountered a small group Of bad hikers which we nick named the jackels. First place was in Julian where one left an impression by blowing snot onto a street, we last seen them at Cascade Locks where they were told to shut up by the M.C during a presentation. They would lay on top of caches, got caught steeling money from the trail angles at Daves place, one was arrested for drug possession and spent time in jail. Interesting enough, towns would know they were coming and refused to serve them when they arrived. We didn't know how to handle them. After they broke up, they were decent. We think it was a group strength thing, like a pack of jackels. What can we do in the future to prevent this behavior? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2016, at 7:42 AM, Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com> wrote:
> 
> You may have hit the nail on the head. The social (fun, party) atmosphere
> seems to start at the southern border and gets bigger as the mass heads
> north. The first month of SOBOS we see are mentally into their maps, their
> food supply and their gear. Very few of them over the last 14 years have
> been interested in drinking or partying or showing rudeness or been
> disrespectful. The problem children each year seem to be the last month of
> the season. They are all under the age of 30 and arrive in groups. After
> changing to not allowing booze the partiers stayed in town. They left a
> poor impression on those who had to deal with what went on.
> 
> As to the increasing numbers we end up with about half of what Ziggy and
> Bear get. Our numbers started to double after Wild came out.
> On Jan 12, 2016 7:10 AM, "James Vesely" <JVesely at sstinternational.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I think we are not seeing the forest through the trees.     In the early
>> days almost all PCT hikers were seasoned in that they were not out on the
>> trail for the first time.    The seasoned hiker was doing the PCT for the
>> backcountry experience and or challenge that it provided.  Today we see a
>> lot more people that are total newbees that have little or no experience
>> and are hiking the trail for more "social" reasons.      These people tend
>> to be less knowledgable of the proper eor of the type that really don't
>> care how other people think
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Nancy
>> Thomas
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 10:17 AM
>> To: Linda Sheehan <lwshee at gmail.com>
>> Cc: pct-l @backcountry.net <Pct-L at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Troublemakers
>> 
>> Do you all think it is because of the  trails publicity (Wild)?
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> In the early days almost all PCT hikers were seasoned, in that they were
>> not out on the trail for the first time.    The seasoned hiker was doing
>> the PCT for the backcountry experience, isolation and or challenge that it
>> provided.  Today we see a lot more people that are total newbies that have
>> little or no experience and are hiking the trail for more "social"
>> reasons.      With the huge increase in the number trail participants  it
>> is inevitable that at least some of these people will  tend to be less
>> knowledgeable of the proper trail etiquette  or of the type that really
>> don't care what other people think.   Maybe it would be advisable to stop
>> telling people to Hike Your Own Hike as this can create a sense of
>> selfishness in some people.    I don't know.
>> 
>> I would also like to mention that  number of PCT hikers is on a hockey
>> stick curve and sooner or later  something is going to have to be done
>> about it.
>> This last July I was on a 3 week hike through the southern sierra's and
>> found that the uncontrolled access by PCT hikers to be in my opinion a
>> problem.
>> Getting a permit for the average non PCT hiker to go into the backcountry
>> of the southern sierra wilderness, especially in certain areas,  can be
>> actually very difficult.   There are reasons for making trail entry
>> quotas,  to reduce the number of hikers to prevent overcrowding.    I go
>> backpacking because it offers a chance to get away from the crowds and to
>> experience nature in a natural setting.    At least half of the hikers I
>> encountered on my hike this July were of PCT origin and there was just to
>> many people on the trail.   Is it fair that I and others have to struggle
>> to get a backcountry permit to reduce overcrowding when thousands of hikers
>> can enter via the PCT whenever they want?    Sooner or later someone is
>> going to have to set an upper limit of how many hikers can start the PCT in
>> any given year or at least limit them when they traverse through already
>> crowded sensitive wilderness areas.    I think in the past if you were
>> considering  a PCT hike you were thinkin
>> g it would be a  physical/mental challenge where you could find isolation
>> and only occasionally meet fellow hikers.  That has now changed.
>> 
>> Is there an upper limit on how many hikers that can start the PCT in any
>> given year before it ruins the PCT experience?  Before it overloads certain
>> parts of the trail and ruins the backcountry experience for non-PCT
>> hikers?    Before it causes damaging impact to towns?  Before more and more
>> people decide they had enough and stop accepting PCT mail?    I think these
>> are the questions that the PCT community must answer and in one way or
>> other find a solution for.    Every trail has its upper limits before
>> overcrowding can ruin it for all and I believe the PCT has reached that
>> number and I believe we are starting to see evidence of that.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>> 
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