[pct-l] Sandals

Fri Mar 6 13:10:37 CST 2015

I thru hiked the PCT in 2012 in sandals. I have done an additional 2000 miles in sandals since then. I will thru the CDT in them this year (hopefully!). The exception is anywhere I expect deep snow, where I will carry light boots and traction for passes and such.

Peru

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net </div><div>Date:03/06/2015  10:00 AM  (GMT-08:00) </div><div>To: pct-l at backcountry.net </div><div>Subject: Pct-L Digest, Vol 87, Issue 6 </div><div>
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Today's Topics:

   1. PCTA Statement on water caches (Sid Everton)
   2. Re: PCTA Statement on water caches (Scott Bryce)
   3. PCTA Statement on Water Caches (Sid Everton)
   4. Re: PCTA Statement on Water Caches (Scott Bryce)
   5. PCTA Statement on Water Caches (Sid Everton)
   6. Re: PCTA Statement on Water Caches (Scott Bryce)
   7. PCTA statement on Water Caches (Sid Everton)
   8. Re: PCTA statement on Water Caches (Scott Bryce)
   9. Sandals (Sid Everton)
  10. Fuller ridge and Baden Powell (marmot marmot)
  11. Sandals (Nathan Dreon)
  12. Campsite evidence (trail debris) (Douglas Tow)
  13. Re: PCTA Statement on Water Caches (Joe Roth)
  14. Re: Trail Debris (Joe Roth)
  15. Re: Sandals (Scott Williams)
  16. Tarp Donation to 2015 Thru-hiker (Jim Bravo)
  17. Re: Sandals (Stephen Adams)
  18.  Tarp Donation to 2015 Thru-hiker (Jim Bravo)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 18:06:39 +0000 (UTC)
From: Sid Everton <sid_everton at yahoo.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] PCTA Statement on water caches
Message-ID:
<1136647641.3491625.1425578799628.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I am going to hick the 2015 PCT. I am going to plan not to rely on caches! That being said.? I look at things if there is? problem there is a solution! Seems to me this is such an easy solution. Ok, Where the trails meet the road on the PCT where these caches are, it is county, state or federal land. Any where I have ever lived it is against the law to litter on their land. From the pictures I have seen of these caches would be called litter! Ok, So the PCTA finds out who's land it is. Talk to the the proper law enforcement agency in that area and tell them PCTA concern. Now if they don't care then that is another story! So you get them aboard. So they say they don't have the resource? So the PCTA makes up a sign to put at the trail head leading to the cashes, how it is against the law to dump on this land and it is a fine of up to $5,000(wording?)! If they still do it the PCTA could put up some kind of wireless security camera to get the license plate of their vehicle and pi
ctures of them.? ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ? I want to look at the other side. Who the heck are yall to tell people how they should give of their hearts!!!! People give for all different causes for all different reasons! You think you know their life better than they do!! One of the reasons that comes to my mind of the caches is maybe this person lost a loved one walking from south of the border, maybe in this area years earlier? I would think most people that give from the heart, they have a story that relates to that cause?? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 11:32:12 -0700
From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCTA Statement on water caches
Message-ID: <54F8A12C.80402 at scottbryce.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 3/5/2015 11:06 AM, Sid Everton wrote:
> Ok, Where the trails meet the road on the PCT where these caches are,
> it is county, state or federal land. Any where I have ever lived it
> is against the law to litter on their land. From the pictures I have
> seen of these caches would be called litter!

Actually, most of the caches are set up in such a way as to minimize the
litter they cause.

> Ok, So the PCTA finds out who's land it is. Talk to the the proper
> law enforcement agency in that area and tell them PCTA concern. Now
> if they don't care then that is another story!

In some cases, where the problem of waterless stretches has been brought
to the attention of the land managers, the solution proposed by the land
manager is to establish water caches.

> So they say they don't have the resource?

Which is why they suggest water caches.

> If they still do it the PCTA could put up some kind of wireless
> security camera to get the license plate of their vehicle and
> pictures of them.

It is pretty well known who is maintaining the caches. This isn't about
trying to catch litterers. This is about discouraging well meaning
people from provided what many consider to be dubious help to hikers.

> I want to look at the other side. Who the heck are yall to tell
> people how they should give of their hearts!!!!

You really need to read a book entitled Toxic Charity.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 19:12:38 +0000 (UTC)
From: Sid Everton <sid_everton at yahoo.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] PCTA Statement on Water Caches
Message-ID:
<618686361.3523549.1425582758278.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Scott seams like your saying you have all the solutions? Organized litter? Then I guess I don't understand the complaining, or the the complaining about the complaining? I don't have the book Toxic Charity in front of me. Would like to tell me how it relates to the PCT water caches and what I said that was WRONG? If you know who is doing the caches? Do you think complaining about it on here is discouraging them? What all I have read about water on the PCT is don't rely on them! So why put them down as water sources? Seams to that encourages hikers to depend on caches more! Because if they were not written down I would not know about them! So I would have to plan! I did ask a question about my hike through Warner Springs and no one responded! That would help my planing. However there are what 15 post about water cache. 

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 13:00:39 -0700
From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCTA Statement on Water Caches
Message-ID: <54F8B5E7.1070103 at scottbryce.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

On 3/5/2015 12:12 PM, Sid Everton wrote:
> I don't have the book Toxic Charity in front of me. Would like to
> tell me how it relates to the PCT water caches

In short, helping people in need by giving them what you and they think
they need nearly always makes their situation worse. And THAT is the
real problem with water caches on the trail.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 20:14:54 +0000 (UTC)
From: Sid Everton <sid_everton at yahoo.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] PCTA Statement on Water Caches
Message-ID:
<125239158.3630918.1425586494866.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

You are proving my question! Why are they written down anywhere? Because if they were not advertized, I would not need them? When you advertize something you are going to get people to want it! So I am thinking now it is half-mile maps fault? And where ever else it is advertized for the caches! Because if hikers didn't know about them, then they would carry enough water? Then the people doing the caches might not do them after not much water was used? How many hikers try to drop pack weight because a water cache is advertized? What percentage? I don't know but what part does the PCTA have in advertizing caches?

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 13:30:56 -0700
From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCTA Statement on Water Caches
Message-ID: <54F8BD00.9090704 at scottbryce.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

On 3/5/2015 1:14 PM, Sid Everton wrote:
> what part does the PCTA have in advertizing caches?

The PCTA does not promote the caches.

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 20:43:44 +0000 (UTC)
From: Sid Everton <sid_everton at yahoo.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] PCTA statement on Water Caches
Message-ID:
<1370099348.3593749.1425588224987.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

My last comment on the subject. The PCTA advertizes the half-mile maps, therefore does the PCTA advertize water caches? In my opinion YES!!! How else would I know about caches unless I got the info off PCTA website? There are probable other places but I got my info off PCTA websight!!!

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 13:51:15 -0700
From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCTA statement on Water Caches
Message-ID: <54F8C1C3.8090108 at scottbryce.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

On 3/5/2015 1:43 PM, Sid Everton wrote:
> The PCTA advertizes the half-mile maps, therefore does the PCTA
> advertize water caches? In my opinion YES!!!

It gets worse than that. The PCTA promotes the trail, and the caches are
visible along the trail!

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 21:50:39 +0000 (UTC)
From: Sid Everton <sid_everton at yahoo.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Sandals
Message-ID:
<1918874828.3593683.1425592239610.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Has any body hiked in sandals for any distance I have heard of some say they saw people. I was just wanting to find out first hand(foot). 

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 15:23:21 -0800
From: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Fuller ridge and Baden Powell
Message-ID: <BLU405-EAS172F5FCE2AC5021918BBCEBC81F0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Could anyone who has been up in these areas this week let me know how much snow there is
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 23:39:12 +0000 (UTC)
From: Nathan Dreon <ndreon at yahoo.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Sandals
Message-ID:
<1690354456.3690665.1425598752318.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

http://zpacks.com/about/pct_gear.shtml

"I hiked in sandals the entire trip."--Samurai Joe?You can find his email address on the web site.

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:06:40 -0800
From: Douglas Tow <douglastow at gmail.com>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Campsite evidence (trail debris)
Message-ID:
<CAOOqOOuhC0MdbkwSN6AByDky5MUnUkmooXotd+yNHdxD2LfGGA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I love sitting and sleeping comfortably, and found myself drawn to those
trail-proximate campsites created by hikers and campers, as they often had
stumps and limbs rearranged for sitting, and flat spots perfect for tents,
many of which had been engineered for that purpose.

They are almost irresistible.

I try here to make a case for hikers to resist these places.  The PCTA and
the bodies overseeing the lands that the PCT travels across all spend time
and money both advocating against them, and converting them back to a
natural condition.

1.  If it looks man-made, stay away (public developed campsites and
campgrounds excepted).
2.  If it looks other than naturally occurring after you camp there, you
either should not have camped there, or you altered the site.
3.  Referencing #2 above, avoid moving anything, digging or scraping, or
camping on living things.  Grasses and mosses beckon, but it doesn't take
too many folks to destroy what may take years to recover.
4.  Any fires that contact the ground violate these principles.
5.  If you need a fire for warmth, you are not properly equipped, or do not
know how to manage in adverse conditions.  If you built a fire to protect
yourself or someone else from hypothermia, no one will tell you that you
shouldn't have, but that doesn't mean that you hiked responsibly.  Finally,
if you think that fire is your backstop against hypothermia, ask your next
of kin to invite me to your wake.

Best to all in the 2015 season,

Chipmunk

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:57:38 -0800
From: Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com>
To: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCTA Statement on Water Caches
Message-ID:
<CACmM4ZBD4iqHikJJ06c-JoB2TzXxUs_BuGHmjMc0tS6wPwGo7g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

The bicycle spring near mile 348 is not flowing now. Some green skum water
remains in the concrete tank though.

On Thursday, March 5, 2015, Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com> wrote:

> On 3/5/2015 1:14 PM, Sid Everton wrote:
>
>> what part does the PCTA have in advertizing caches?
>>
>
> The PCTA does not promote the caches.
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 17:02:11 -0800
From: Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com>
To: Gail Van Velzer <vanvelzer at charter.net>
Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail Debris
Message-ID:
<CACmM4ZCPHE1B8accTs+6nLx=UvR9ZYQK7EAr0iNmYBFqaui_5g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Seaglass and Hawk (me) are hiking the PCT now section d  and see very
little trash even at road crossings. Yes, we do pick others trash up on
occasion.

On Wednesday, March 4, 2015, Gail Van Velzer <vanvelzer at charter.net> wrote:

> More than that.  It's the blight that is caused by the fire in the ring.
> That's why you are supposed to use rings that are already existing, if a
> fire is allowed at the time.
> Golly
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <gary_schenk at verizon.net>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail Debris
>
>
>  On 03/04/15, Brick Robbins wrote:
>>
>> What makes a fire ring illegal?
>> *******************************************
>>
>> The illegal fire that was in it? And hopefully stayed in it.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
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>>
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>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 17:33:02 -0800
From: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
To: Sid Everton <sid_everton at yahoo.com>
Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Sandals
Message-ID:
<CAGxcj13smwpeufVCtNWeXJW5ozpCUgxn7ybWypHs+Gfo5M-y=Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I haven't hiked in sandals, but have met a number of people who have hiked
thru hikes in boots, sandals, Crocs, and even barefooted.   What I've heard
from those in sandals is that it requires a new way of walking with even
more focus on foot placement so as not to stub the front of your toes as
you hike along.  This is probably a healthy and more basically human way to
walk anyway, as we obviously were more careful with foot placement for many
thousands of years barefoot before we started making sandals.  Another
thing folks talk about is the need to shake out sand and pebbles as they
hike along.  Both of those are relatively small fry, however, for hiking in
footgear that you really love.  The vast majority of people use trail
runners however as they are lightweight and still provide some protection
for your feet.

If you're a sandals kind of guy, give it a shot, but have some shoes as
backup ready to be mailed to trail if you find yourself not comfortable
with your initial choice.  But you're in good company, plenty of folks hike
in sandals, but walk softly, and with deliberation when you start.

Shroomer

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Sid Everton <sid_everton at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Has any body hiked in sandals for any distance I have heard of some say
> they saw people. I was just wanting to find out first hand(foot).
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 21:43:22 -0800
From: Jim Bravo <jimbravo2 at gmail.com>
To: PCT Forum <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Tarp Donation to 2015 Thru-hiker
Message-ID:
<CACMJFrCbAYH0zBAZ24QZYoTchd=Z4f4O-e5cCJyhuB=u8oEABQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

8 x 10 Equinox silnylon tarp offered to a 2015 thru-hiker. I'll pay
shipping to lower 48. Purchased in 2010 and is like new. One caveat, this
is not a tent and requires a higher level of backcountry knowledge and
skill. Send me an email off list, preferably with the assurance that you
know how to use it.

Bravo

------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 07:37:59 -0800
From: Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Sandals
Message-ID: <75A2AE5B-3E4D-4633-90A7-A2651F765C12 at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Lots of pros and cons regarding hiking in sandals.  I have often hiked with both my shoes and bring my sandals along for a little breather.  Last time I hiked in sandals my feet got some painful cracks, and it gets worse as trail dirt infects the open bleeding sores etc...  By the end of that day it was getting very painful to walk.  Have also got a couple pretty good scrapes from sticks getting jammed into my foot.  Another problem I have encountered has been some tendon soreness after a couple hours hiking in sandals.  This is probably with regards to having a different muscle tendon stress compared to shoes, but I have experienced the issue on several occasions.  Water crossings... I'd much rather have my shoes on for protection.  Have had sandals do all sorts of weird things in very cold rocky creeks.  
If it were me, I would do some serious testing before heading out on a multi day hike with just sandals.  Just saying.  

------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 09:17:02 -0800
From: Jim Bravo <jimbravo2 at gmail.com>
To: PCT Forum <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l]  Tarp Donation to 2015 Thru-hiker
Message-ID:
<CACMJFrDy_VDaQo1c8YykM48Secp551tNqMCa2MmLm2Y0UuStrA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

The tarp has found a good home.

sent from my Samsung Galaxy 3

------------------------------

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End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 87, Issue 6
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