[pct-l] Paying for SAR

[chiefcowboy at verizon.net]

Jim,

The topic of SAR billing comes up as regular as discussions about alcohol 
stoves, bury or not bury poop, etc.  The most recent serious discussion was 
in Orange County, California when a couple of doped up "hikers" prompted a 
lengthy and expensive search.  The Orange County Board of Supervisors looked 
into billing them.  I doubt it went anywhere because the Government Code of 
California establishes that SAR is the purview (and responsibility) of the 
Sheriff of the county.

A few years ago there was a completely unexpected snowstorm in October in 
the Sierras and SAR units pulled dozens of people out.  Keep in mind that 
Inyo and Mono counties are large and sparsely populated - hence not a lot of 
money to throw away.  But, relying on mutual aid and using their own 
volunteers they got them all out.

I would hate to think that anyone would consider cost of an operation 
against the life of the lost subject.

I, for one, don't see a change looming with the one exception that if 
illegal or grossly incompetent decision making was responsible, there may be 
an effort to recover costs.

Just my two pennies worth.

Ron

-----Original Message----- 
From: James Vesely
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 1:35 PM
To: PCT
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Paying for SAR


I wonder how much tax and income revenue PCT hikers and people who do
outdoor activities generate, it's probably in the multiple billions of
dollars if you include food, hotel stays, gear purchases, thousands of
manufacturing jobs, etc.

I think the SAR costs would be a tiny, tiny fraction of that and I think
a lot more people would just stay home if they new that if they called
for help they might incur a lifelong debt.

Certain services such as search and rescue should be built into our
economy and they benefit more people then the ones being saved.

Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Terry
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 12:31 PM
To: Brick Robbins
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Paying for SAR

Brick, toe your argument is valid, to. a point.

The problem we are discussing lies in dealing with people who are
uneducated to the task at hand, under equipped and lack the experience
to understand what they are doing.
The biggest problem, within this problem is, there are more and more of
these people hiking the PCT every year.
Your statement of "Is it time to get rid of this commie, liberal,  un
american  (American) free SAR?"
Brick, you have a right to your point of view and as the un-American
(your words) that you are, you initiated this this political statement.
I now ask you to review your county's budget for their SAR cost and
figure out what it cost for all the "Commies" living in your county
needing assistance from them. I do have a feeling you will soon realize,
if you actually do the math, that the money spent rescuing a  very few
people, far out weigh the money spent on most other socialized programs
you expect to have offered to you.

Some day, we may not have a choice but to close the "gate" just as they
do in Maine on the Appalachian trail every year to late, and/or
uninformed, under equipped and under trained hikers in the late season
Northern Cascades to save them from themselves.

Terry





Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 9, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 4:21 AM, Ernie Castillo <erniec01 at hotmail.com>
wrote:
>> the motorist certainly wouldn't object to calling and paying for a
tow truck. Why would SAR be any different, especially if a hiker
initiated an urgent call for help?<
>
> Most of the time, the hiker doesn't "initiate the call" and it wasn't
> until quite recently that people stuck in the wilderness actually
> could call for their own rescue.
>
> Take the case of Rocket Llama,
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=436514
> There was a SAR effort initiated to search for her, but she didn't
> call for it, and she walked out on her own so she didn't use it.
>
> By this libertarian "pay for service" model, who should have payed for
> this SAR call?
>
> I guess if concerned citizens are afraid to call for SAR for fear of
> incurring large costs, and people die because of that fear, then it
> will be OK with a sizable minority of the country... they already hold
> that view for healthcare. Do you think it is time to get rid of this
> commie, liberal un american free SAR?
>

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