[pct-l] Ice axe?

Mon May 20 20:11:04 CDT 2013

<< Care to share that story about your fall, injury, and lessons learned so
the whole List can benefit? >>

Sure - I was about 20 years old and invulnerable.  Crossed an avalanche
chute near Mt. Baldy with a hiking stick in hand and before I knew it I was
sliding on my butt downhill FAST into some ugly looking rock fields below.  

I didn't know enough to turn over on my belly to try a self arrest - I just
jammed my hiking stick into the snow... and it stuck.  Unfortunately, I
didn't.  My left arm got a rather a rather violent twist from the planted
stick. Luckily I managed to flail sideways enough to slide into some
overhanging pine tree boughs where I came to a sudden stop.  I could tell
from the bump on my shoulder that something was either broken or dislocated.
After getting to some flatter ground, a hiking buddy tried to put my
shoulder back in place (we guessed correctly that it was dislocated) but we
didn't know what we were doing and it was a painful but fruitless effort.  I
had to hike about 8 hours to get to a trailhead and then another couple
hours in a bouncy jeep (wincing the whole way) to get to a hospital and some
blessed pain killers.

Anyway, with some medical help my shoulder recovered and I learned a few
things from the experience.  Probably the most important thing being that I
really wasn't invulnerable.  Bad stuff CAN and does happen.  That knowledge
alone has probably been responsible for keeping me out of trouble over the
past three decades.  A little prudence goes a long way.  As far as dealing
with snow and snow chutes, I made it a point to practice some self arrest
techniques when I lived in Maine for a few years.  Never with an actual ice
axe though - only with walking sticks, ski poles, etc.  In addition to
learning to roll over and "belly up to the mountain", I learned a good bit
about snow textures, snow angles, etc.  It's one of those things that just
gives you more confidence if you have to cross snowfields - or let's you
know that it ain't worth risking and I should look for another route.  I did
that a couple years ago in Rocky Mtn NP when my wife and I were supposed to
cross a steep icy snowfield that fed directly into a frigid lake.  We added
10 miles to our trip to avoid crossing that snow field.  We weren't equipped
and didn't like the consequences...

Anyway.   That's the story for what it's worth.

Since I'm now in the South, I will say "Good Luck y'all."  I only have short
trips planned this year but hope to do a PCT thru in 2014.  Maybe I'll see
some of you then.

Timberline

-----Original Message-----
From: Ned Tibbits [mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org] 
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 7:28 PM
To: Dan Welch
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Ice axe?

Timberline!

Care to share that story about your fall, injury, and lessons learned so the
whole List can benefit? The more real stories come forth, the more the young
may listen!

Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education
www.mountaineducation.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Welch
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 4:01 PM
To: ned at mountaineducation.org
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Ice axe?

Some great information.  Thanks for the response.

A couple things in particular hit home - You said << Most thru hikers learn
this by trial and error (in other words, they have to learn through their
personal falls how much traction and balance their shoes give them, how much
their behavior leads them into danger, and under which snow conditions they
tend to fall. >>  I had to grimace at that one since I dislocated a shoulder
over 30 years ago in a snow runout.  That was a LONG day...  But yes I
learned a few things that day.

Second thing -   << The key, here, is knowing your route! How can you plan
or prepare for anything you know only a little about? >>  That rings
particularly true when one has to arrange to have equipment weeks before it
will be needed (in order to purchase & mail to a supply drop.)  Who knows
what the conditions will be when one arrives at that "killer snowfield"?  So
- versatile equipment is often best, and then we must use that with the
appropriate amount of caution.  I am just trying to get a handle on the
comparative capabilities of a Whippet vs an ice axe.  I've never used a
Whippet or had one in hand before.  So your insights are helpful.  Thanks
again.

Timberline

-----Original Message-----
From: ned at mountaineducation.org [mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 5:39 PM
To: Dan Welch; 'Aaron Nicholson'; 'pct-l'
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Ice axe?

For the average springtime sierra Thru Hiker, JMT or PCT:  Whippet vs. Axe

- the self-arrest pole is in-hand always. Since you never know when you're
going to slip and fall, this is the best option for protection against
spontaneous out-of-control slides into trees or rocks below. It functions
the same as an axe for self-arrest and works for balance control, too.
- The pole does not work for self-belay or as an uphill anchor on steep
traverses because of its basket and less durable construction.
- It can not chop through thick ice to make footholds (though it can nibble
a bit at it, roughing it up enough to get a bit of friction-traction!)

- the deployment of an axe requires that the user be trained and experienced
enough with the tool to recognize axe-needing hazards ahead and stop and
take the axe off the pack before moving forward. Most thru hikers learn this
by trial and error (in other words, they have to learn through their
personal falls how much traction and balance their shoes give them, how much
their behavior leads them into danger, and under which snow conditions they
tend to fall. Maybe then they'll slow enough to be maintain better safety
and balance on snow).
- an axe is often too short for balance control, but once in-hand, is
certainly the definitive tool for self-arrest, self-belay, and as a rudder
in a seated glissade.

If I know that we're leading a group of our students into a place or on a
route where there might be sufficient springtime, consolidated snow on-angle
to cause a slip-and-fall, Mountain Education requires the following:
- Ice axes (for routes straight up the fall line--self-belay use)
- Whippet poles for constant use
- Kahtoola hiking crampons for predictable lateral control while traversing
on snow or ice.

If we don't expect any high-angle stuff, the axe is left at home.

The key, here, is knowing your route! How can you plan or prepare for
anything you know only a little about? Sure, you can read up on Journals and
look at pictures, but going there for yourself is the best way to discover
what the conditions are really like on the ground on the date you expect to
be there.

Here's a silly video we put together three years ago showing what it took to
get over Forester...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po7gWQzrrGw

Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education
www.mountaineducation.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Welch
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 9:43 AM
To: 'Ned Tibbits' ; 'Aaron Nicholson' ; 'pct-l'
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Ice axe?

Hi Ned,

Can you tell me your thoughts on why the Whippet is "better" than a Corsa
Ice Axe?  The Corsa looks more rugged and more appropriate for self arrest -
and lighter too. I would have planned to use the Corsa as a "hiking pole
support" on slick or icy slopes, so it would already be in hand. I
understand the dangers of "self evisceration," but is it any less of an
issue with the Whippet?

Thanks for the benefit of your experience!
Timberline

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of Ned Tibbits
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:37 AM
To: Aaron Nicholson; pct-l
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Ice axe?

Like most year's thawing snowpack, this year's just has a higher snowline.
The word thus far is placing it at about 10,500 or 11,000. This means that
you'll have solid snow from there on up and over every pass or ridge you
come across.

With the exception of Forester's ice chute, the skills needed are
self-arrest, traction control, and balance on snow. If you don't know how to
use an axe, it would be a waste of effort to carry and money to buy.
However, as we encouraged at the Kickoff, a self-arrest pole like the Black
Diamond "Whippet"  (
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/ski/ski-poles/whippet-self-a
rrest-ski-pole
) is always in-hand and ready to save your butt should you fall and slide
(but you've got to know how to self-arrest!). It also works great for
balance control, as a pole. (Don't sweat the weight of the thing...you'll
get used to it).

Remember, start early in the morning to capitalize on the harder snow
surfaces made by the night's cold temperatures (should you still have
freezes). Once the snow becomes so soft that you start postholing, get off
of it. Posting can cause serious injuries. Plan your day's progress
accordingly and you'll be able to make some miles, even over snow on the
multi-mile approaches to passes and through the suncups.

Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education
www.mountaineducation.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Nicholson
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 10:08 PM
To: pct-l
Subject: [pct-l] Ice axe?

I'm getting mixed messages about whether I'll need an ice Axe in the sierras
this year. I plan on leaving Kennedy meadows on may 27th or so.
Any thoughts? Also, how's the mail speed into KM? If I were to have it
mailed on monday, would it arrive by the 27th? Thanks Aaron
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