[pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 65, Issue 18
Heather
mom_and_alex at yahoo.com
Fri May 17 07:19:51 CDT 2013
This was about the quickest edition to read so far, with 14 posts actually about hiking / horseback, and 24 about MTBs.
I'd say the MTB topic successfully hijacked the list.
Brick, are you remotely interest in calling it the PCTHikingAndEquestrian -L?
Sent from my iPhone
On May 15, 2013, at 12:17 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Two Lost Hikers Found Near Hauser Canyon (Michelle Robertson)
> 2. When will the Oregon/WA sections be hikeable? (Carrie Jilek)
> 3. Mountain Bike Posts (Ken Murray)
> 4. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Andrea Dinsmore)
> 5. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Dan Jacobs)
> 6. Mountain Bike Posts (Nick Thelen)
> 7. Ultalight trekking pole recommendations, plz
> (dofdear aka Thumper)
> 8. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Benjamin Grunbaum)
> 9. Re: C-A-M-P-F-I-R-E-S / And the Mountain Bike problem
> (Edward Anderson)
> 10. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Devon Taig)
> 11. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Devon Taig)
> 12. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (lilacs007 at yahoo.com)
> 13. Trail angel etiquette advice (Kristy Margulieux)
> 14. Re: Trail angel etiquette advice (Cat Nelson)
> 15. Re: Admin Note. Must Read. was: The Mountain Bike problem
> (Devon Taig)
> 16. Mountain Bike Posts (Barry Teschlog)
> 17. Re: When will the Oregon/WA sections be hikeable? (Judson Brown)
> 18. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Judson Brown)
> 19. Mountain Bike Posts (Nick Thelen)
> 20. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Judson Brown)
> 21. Re: Trail angel etiquette advice (tsparks56 at aol.com)
> 22. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (JPL)
> 23. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Judson Brown)
> 24. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Nick Thelen)
> 25. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (tsparks56 at aol.com)
> 26. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (JPL)
> 27. Re: 3rd Gate Crossing Water Cache
> (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
> 28. Dog Sitting (mark utzman)
> 29. Mountain Bike Posts (Leden Stapper)
> 30. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Jim Banks)
> 31. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (randall welch)
> 32. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Edward Anderson)
> 33. Dog sitting (Taylor Matheson)
> 34. Re: Dog Sitting (Rod Miller)
> 35. Re: ultralight trekking pole (Theresa Sorensen)
> 36. Re: hitching/ride from i10 to cabazon? (Scott Williams)
> 37. Lavender for bug repellant? (Emily Boys)
> 38. Re: Mountain Bike Posts (Nick Thelen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:00:13 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Michelle Robertson <michellerobertson24 at ymail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Two Lost Hikers Found Near Hauser Canyon
> To: "robert.riess at cox.net" <robert.riess at cox.net>,
> "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>,
> "erniec01 at hotmail.com" <erniec01 at hotmail.com>
> Message-ID:
> <1368550813.9793.androidMobile at web163503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Its this close to Julian CA
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:30:47 -0700
> From: Carrie Jilek <fancyjilek at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] When will the Oregon/WA sections be hikeable?
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CAB+cMyVyhLaFOX_ZraRVRyC_e0wGEuN2d7vH35UUMnb0uBk3Bw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hey All,
>
> I've been out hiking in Southern California and the weather has been pretty
> miserable on my body. Does anybody know when the Oregon/ WA sections become
> hikeable- no snow skills necessary? The PCT is great, but enjoying it would
> be even better.
>
> Another option would be- is anybody planning on going from Southern
> California to Kennedy Meadows anytime soon? Pitch in on gas money.
>
> thanks so much for any input.
>
> Carrie
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 14:46:53 -0400
> From: "Ken Murray" <kmurray at dr.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <20130514184654.311250 at gmx.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> "The admin is blocking mountain bike posts"
>
> WRONG
>
> "The moderator of the list has declared bicycles on the PCT off topic. I respect that. It's not difficult."
>
> WRONG
>
> Brick has declared posts IN FAVOR of MTB's to be off limits. He is not in any way wanting to stifle discussion of the damage that we see, nor the dangers that we experience.
>
> "May I please remind everyone that pro-MTB-on-the-PCT posts are notallowed on PCT-L."and"Admin Note: Discussions about *allowing *bikes on the PCT is off topic on this list. Do not post anything *advocating opening* the PCT to bicycles. It is the apparent tactic of the IMBA (International Mountain Bike Association) and their cohorts to tenaciously take over communities by wearing down their opposition by creating non stop controversy, as the "bikes on the PCT folks" are trying to here"A policy which this Peavey person apparently chooses not to follow.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 11:57:23 -0700
> From: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAD=4stHBN3qdrpqdLLL5-M8mJTUap3U25UiU3Q=ZzQAVPovygg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I thought the purpose of the PCT-L forum was to help hikers (new and old)
> to find answers to hiking problems ?? Problems like pack choice, water
> cashes, food questions, clothing options, route questions, trail angels,
> survival skills...etc.
>
> The discussion of bikes on the trail should be on the Save the PCT site.
> That is the purpose of that site.
>
> PCT MOM
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Ken Murray <kmurray at dr.com> wrote:
>
>> "The admin is blocking mountain bike posts"
>>
>> WRONG
>>
>> "The moderator of the list has declared bicycles on the PCT off topic. I
>> respect that. It's not difficult."
>>
>> WRONG
>>
>> Brick has declared posts IN FAVOR of MTB's to be off limits. He is not in
>> any way wanting to stifle discussion of the damage that we see, nor the
>> dangers that we experience.
>>
>> "May I please remind everyone that pro-MTB-on-the-PCT posts are notallowed
>> on PCT-L."and"Admin Note: Discussions about *allowing *bikes on the PCT is
>> off topic on this list. Do not post anything *advocating opening* the PCT
>> to bicycles. It is the apparent tactic of the IMBA (International Mountain
>> Bike Association) and their cohorts to tenaciously take over communities by
>> wearing down their opposition by creating non stop controversy, as the
>> "bikes on the PCT folks" are trying to here"A policy which this Peavey
>> person apparently chooses not to follow.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:08:18 -0700
> From: Dan Jacobs <youroldpaldan at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CA+-77MXLnH3g-gRpL8FMV5myuKNUJ6KYK87UMHw3AhtmYbW95g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On May 14, 2013 11:58 AM, "Andrea Dinsmore"
>>
>> The discussion of bikes on the trail should be on the Save the PCT site.
>> That is the purpose of that site.
>>
>> PCT MOM
>
> The Facebook page or ??? Tried to go to the Save the PCT Facebook page
> about a month ago and couldn't find it.
>
> Dan Jacobs
> Washougal
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:39:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1368560340.54331.YahooMailNeo at web121803.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> To the best of my?knowledge?the 'Save the PCT' page has been, for lack of a better term, abandoned.
>
> It was closed long ago to any sort of open discussion.
>
> Unfortunately it is the Admins choice to disallow any pro-MTB posts...I find it silly
> to that he approves solely 1 sided discussions...
>
> Such a policy only promotes more 'Group Think', or 'head-in-the-sand' mentality.
>
> On a side note - it is very good to read that the hiking season is going very well for the 'thru' crowd.
>
> Quite an adventure!
>
> - Nick
>
> Dan Wrote:
> "The Facebook page or ??? Tried to go to the Save the PCT Facebook page
> about a month ago and couldn't find it. Dan Jacobs?
> Washougal"
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 12:48:45 -0700
> From: "dofdear aka Thumper" <dofdear at cox.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Ultalight trekking pole recommendations, plz
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAHlMMAabRt1OnagNNVbgO0nCgAAAEAAAANEwEsD6o1VCqmaKE/C+NuABAAAAAA==@cox.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Below is a list from Leki of some basic information regarding their trekking
> pole selection.
>
>
>
> Thumper aka Dan C.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> MODEL # NAME SHAFT DIAM. CM RETAIL Weight
> (oz./pr.)
>
> T633 2073 Carbon 4 18/16/14/12 55-130 $219.95
> 14.8
>
> T637 2074 Micro Vario Carbon (38) 110 - 130
> $199.95 16.8
>
> T637 2075 Micro Vario Ti (38) 110 - 130 $169.95
> 19
>
> HYBRID (Antishock)
>
>
> T631 2134 Thermolite XL Antishock 16/14/12 69-135
> $179.95 17.8
>
> T631 2156 Corklite Antishock 16/14/12 69-135
> $159.95 19.5
>
> T637 2426 Cristallo Antishock 16/14/12 69-135
> $139.95 20
>
> SPEEDLOCK (external)
>
>
> T631 2160 Carbon Ti 16/14/12 67-135 $199.95
> 16.8
>
> T631 2135 Thermolite XL 16/14/12 67-135 $159.95
> 18.6
>
> T631 2153 Corklite 16/14/12 67-135 $139.95
> 19.5
>
> T637 2425 Cristallo 16/14/12 67-135 $119.95
> 19.8
>
> T637 2420 Quantum 16/14/12 67-135 $99.95
> 20.2
>
> T633 2055 Vario XS Jr 14/12 67-110 $74.95
> 15.7
>
> WOMEN'S
>
> T631 2114 Cressida Antishock 16/14/12 65-125
> $179.95 17.6
>
> T631 2119 Cressida 16/14/12 64-125 $159.95
> 17.6
>
> T631 2110 Lhasa Lite Antishock 16/14/12 65-125
> $159.95 18.4
>
> T631 2111 Lhasa Lite 16/14/12 64-125 $139.95
> 18.4
>
> T631 2113 Jannu Antishock 16/14/12 65-125
> $139.95 18.6
>
> T631 2112 Jannu 16/14/12 64-125 $119.95
> 18.6
>
> T637 2422 Naya 16/14/12 64-125 $99.95
> 18.7
>
> EXPANDER (internal)
>
>
> T631 2125 Carbonlite XL (w/Photo) 16/14/12 63-135
> $219.95 14.3
>
> T637 2129 Carbonlite 16/14/12 63-135 $179.95
> 14.8
>
> T631 2032 Summit Antishock 18/16/14 69-145
> $139.95 20
>
> T637 2047 Maldona Antishock 18/16/14 69-145
> $119.95 20.2
>
> T631 2021 Trail 18/16/14 66-145 $99.95
> 19.3
>
> T637 2430 Shasta 18/16/14 65-145 $99.95
> 19.1
>
> T631 2017 Voyager 18/16/14 65-145 $89.95
> 19.2
>
> T631 2011 Eagle 18/16/14 65-145 $79.95
> 18.8
>
> SINGLE STAFF SERIES
>
>
> T633 2097 Photosystem Carbon 20/18/16/14 69-170 $159.95
> 11.9
>
> TO 2152 Sierra Antishock 18/16/14 78-145
> $89.95 10.5
>
> T633 2084 Wanderfreund Antishock 18/16/14 62-120 $84.95
> 9.5
>
> T633 2081 Wanderfreund SpeedLock 18/16/14 63-120
> $69.95 9.7
>
> T633 2082 Wanderfreund 18/16/14 58-120
> $69.95 9.2
>
> T633 2080 Super Micro 18/16/14 46-90 $69.95
> 7.8
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 13:34:48 -0700
> From: Benjamin Grunbaum <bengrunbaum at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CACuENdW6SfhnFkqodG1OuAkwd0_vT6aBPGawZuuUTXuG8OBzAA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I would interpret the requested ban on advocating for mountain bike use on
> the PCT differently. As anyone who reads most of the comments on here
> would notice there is a lot of disagreement about anything from footwear to
> hiking poles to water caches and to the level of experience and the skills
> one should have before embarking on such a journey. The list goes on and
> on.
>
> I would argue that those who have there "head in the sand" are those that
> do not seem to understand the history of the PCT and how it was created.
> At the PCT kickoff this year, there was a presenter who was one of many
> boys from the YMCA and boy scouts whom cumulatively hiked from Mexico to
> Canada in order to prove that it could be done. It was very inspirational.
> The PCT was built because of, by, and for the hiking community. It has
> been maintained and improved by the hiking and equestrian community. The
> mountain biker community has the job of convincing they should be allowed
> on the trail if, and only if, they are aloud to do so. Trying to force
> someone to accept your side will never help your cause. I ride mountain
> bikes too and you are only making me dislike the aggressive tactics used by
> the mountain biking community more. I volunteered to do some trail work
> with the IMBA a couple weeks ago but I may reconsider. I will ask them if
> they encourage such tactics before I do so, however. The moderator, myself
> and the vast majority of the people on this list have made it abundantly
> clear they do not care to hear those arguments The PCT is wonderful the
> way it is and is always improving due to the volunteers and the financial
> generosity of many. To expect those who enjoy the trail as it is right
> now to just accept that mountain bikes should be allowed on the trail is
> unreasonable. You must convince us. Unfortunately mountain bike advocates
> have lost that privilege on this forum because of the tactics used by
> members of their own community. A period of reflection is in order.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> To the best of my knowledge the 'Save the PCT' page has been, for lack of
>> a better term, abandoned.
>>
>> It was closed long ago to any sort of open discussion.
>>
>> Unfortunately it is the Admins choice to disallow any pro-MTB posts...I
>> find it silly
>> to that he approves solely 1 sided discussions...
>>
>> Such a policy only promotes more 'Group Think', or 'head-in-the-sand'
>> mentality.
>>
>> On a side note - it is very good to read that the hiking season is going
>> very well for the 'thru' crowd.
>>
>> Quite an adventure!
>>
>> - Nick
>>
>> Dan Wrote:
>> "The Facebook page or ??? Tried to go to the Save the PCT Facebook page
>> about a month ago and couldn't find it. Dan Jacobs
>> Washougal"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 13:45:03 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] C-A-M-P-F-I-R-E-S / And the Mountain Bike problem
> To: Craig Giffen <cg at lunky.com>, "pct-l at backcountry.net"
> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1368564303.91628.YahooMailNeo at web126205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Craig, I have seen PCT posts that had, it was obvious, an emblem removed. This was in areas where, looking at the tire tracks, illegal MB's were using the PCT. So, I assume it was the MB'ers who removed? MB emblems. Unless you can catch them in the act and take pictures you can't prove it - and they know it. That sort of thing has been going on for a long time. More than a decade ago two of my customers (who had bought one of my Ford 4WD campers), and who were also among those who inspired me to ride the PCT, told the following PCT story from their experience as they hiked on it:? They had reached a place somewhere north of Agua Dulce ( I think that I remember that they had mentioned having stopped at the Saufleys. Their trail names, given to them by other hikers, was "Salt & Pepper"- later it was to become Orian and Brook) and got lost on a very steep trail that was supposed to be the PCT. They eventually turned back and on close examination of a fork
> in the trail, they discovered that the PCT post had been dug up and planted on the fork of the trail that they had taken. There were MB tracks on the fork of the trail that was the actual PCT. So, among the good advice that they gave me, was that if you find yourself on a trail that is very steep - it's not the PCT, you are probably lost. Getting lost can be risky.
>
>
> Documenting MB violations, vandalism, and illegal campfires, with pictures including both face and location identification, can help in protecting the PCT. We then must report them. If enough hikers and equestrians did that, there would be better enforcement of laws designed to protect the PCT. The consequences for willful violations should be substantial.?
>
> MendoRider-Hiker
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Craig Giffen <cg at lunky.com>
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 8:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] C-A-M-P-F-I-R-E-S / And the Mountain Bike problem
>
>
> "Usual" yes, but I am finding a lot of posts that either have the mountain bike scratched out, or like I saw today near the Acorn trail, the red stripe removed and the PCT logo ripped off the post. Thus they can pull the tired "but the sign said it was a biking trail and not the PCT" stunt.
>
> I have been documenting every single piece of vandalism like this over the last 375 miles, sadly this won't be the last of it.
>
> Cg
>
>
>> The usual PCT post was there
>> and the bike symbol with the red slash through it
>> was obvious. There were four bikers. They certainly had to have seen it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 15:28:27 -0600
> From: Devon Taig <devon.taig at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAJ-PrArqTuYsPF-_qo0QQrTU9eg3SpW_bAJj7tjN=Sd+gjeCUQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> When was the "no pro mountain bike posts" ban put in place? I posted
> something pro bike on October 12 last year that did make it onto the list.
> It was in fact copied from there and used on the PCT mountain bike
> facebook page (with my permission) as evidence that not all hikers (I'm not
> a cyclist myself) are opposed to their presence.
> While I do agree we don't need to rehash the "great bike debate" again (at
> least not for a year or more), I really hope it isn't the case that anyones
> opinions aren't being considered. I have zero tolerance for censorship.
> None.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> To the best of my knowledge the 'Save the PCT' page has been, for lack of
>> a better term, abandoned.
>>
>> It was closed long ago to any sort of open discussion.
>>
>> Unfortunately it is the Admins choice to disallow any pro-MTB posts...I
>> find it silly
>> to that he approves solely 1 sided discussions...
>>
>> Such a policy only promotes more 'Group Think', or 'head-in-the-sand'
>> mentality.
>>
>> On a side note - it is very good to read that the hiking season is going
>> very well for the 'thru' crowd.
>>
>> Quite an adventure!
>>
>> - Nick
>>
>> Dan Wrote:
>> "The Facebook page or ??? Tried to go to the Save the PCT Facebook page
>> about a month ago and couldn't find it. Dan Jacobs
>> Washougal"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 15:42:40 -0600
> From: Devon Taig <devon.taig at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
> Cc: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAJ-PrArm0NbGfh3ieu7RAXQ8sgEvuh5CJn5RS=RVV6GkmFWgKA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I was having a discussion with someone about water fluoridation, and they
> suggested that I go to a site they had found to learn the facts...I think
> it was "StopFlouridation.Com" or something. When I pointed out that it
> hardly sounded like an independent review of the facts, they kinda
> shrugged. It matched their opinion I suppose, so it must be correct.
> "SaveThePCT" is, I can only imagine by its name, not particularly impartial
> on the topic of bikes. Clearly there should be a place where people with
> differing opinions on a range of PCT relevant topics can discuss things in
> a civil manner. I thought that was this list. I would agree to
> banning aggressive or condescending posts; or any post that is factually
> inaccurate. But opinion pieces??? Please.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Andrea Dinsmore <
> andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com> wrote:
>
>> I thought the purpose of the PCT-L forum was to help hikers (new and old)
>> to find answers to hiking problems ?? Problems like pack choice, water
>> cashes, food questions, clothing options, route questions, trail angels,
>> survival skills...etc.
>>
>> The discussion of bikes on the trail should be on the Save the PCT site.
>> That is the purpose of that site.
>>
>> PCT MOM
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Ken Murray <kmurray at dr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "The admin is blocking mountain bike posts"
>>>
>>> WRONG
>>>
>>> "The moderator of the list has declared bicycles on the PCT off topic. I
>>> respect that. It's not difficult."
>>>
>>> WRONG
>>>
>>> Brick has declared posts IN FAVOR of MTB's to be off limits. He is not in
>>> any way wanting to stifle discussion of the damage that we see, nor the
>>> dangers that we experience.
>>>
>>> "May I please remind everyone that pro-MTB-on-the-PCT posts are
>> notallowed
>>> on PCT-L."and"Admin Note: Discussions about *allowing *bikes on the PCT
>> is
>>> off topic on this list. Do not post anything *advocating opening* the
>> PCT
>>> to bicycles. It is the apparent tactic of the IMBA (International
>> Mountain
>>> Bike Association) and their cohorts to tenaciously take over communities
>> by
>>> wearing down their opposition by creating non stop controversy, as the
>>> "bikes on the PCT folks" are trying to here"A policy which this Peavey
>>> person apparently chooses not to follow.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 21:55:34 +0000
> From: lilacs007 at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: "Devon Taig" <devon.taig at gmail.com>, "Andrea Dinsmore"
> <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
> Cc: Pacific crest trail PCT Listserve <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1254968602-1368568559-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1182423852- at b17.c14.bise6.blackberry>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> I've been on here since beginning of the year and love reading the posts..
>
> I think the point of "off list" is that this topic gets rehashed over and over again, with some people taking it too far occasionally.
>
> Mountain biking convo is like religion and politics :)
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Devon Taig <devon.taig at gmail.com>
> Sender: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 15:42:40
> To: Andrea Dinsmore<andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
> Cc: PCT-L<pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
> I was having a discussion with someone about water fluoridation, and they
> suggested that I go to a site they had found to learn the facts...I think
> it was "StopFlouridation.Com" or something. When I pointed out that it
> hardly sounded like an independent review of the facts, they kinda
> shrugged. It matched their opinion I suppose, so it must be correct.
> "SaveThePCT" is, I can only imagine by its name, not particularly impartial
> on the topic of bikes. Clearly there should be a place where people with
> differing opinions on a range of PCT relevant topics can discuss things in
> a civil manner. I thought that was this list. I would agree to
> banning aggressive or condescending posts; or any post that is factually
> inaccurate. But opinion pieces??? Please.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Andrea Dinsmore <
> andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com> wrote:
>
>> I thought the purpose of the PCT-L forum was to help hikers (new and old)
>> to find answers to hiking problems ?? Problems like pack choice, water
>> cashes, food questions, clothing options, route questions, trail angels,
>> survival skills...etc.
>>
>> The discussion of bikes on the trail should be on the Save the PCT site.
>> That is the purpose of that site.
>>
>> PCT MOM
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Ken Murray <kmurray at dr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "The admin is blocking mountain bike posts"
>>>
>>> WRONG
>>>
>>> "The moderator of the list has declared bicycles on the PCT off topic. I
>>> respect that. It's not difficult."
>>>
>>> WRONG
>>>
>>> Brick has declared posts IN FAVOR of MTB's to be off limits. He is not in
>>> any way wanting to stifle discussion of the damage that we see, nor the
>>> dangers that we experience.
>>>
>>> "May I please remind everyone that pro-MTB-on-the-PCT posts are
>> notallowed
>>> on PCT-L."and"Admin Note: Discussions about *allowing *bikes on the PCT
>> is
>>> off topic on this list. Do not post anything *advocating opening* the
>> PCT
>>> to bicycles. It is the apparent tactic of the IMBA (International
>> Mountain
>>> Bike Association) and their cohorts to tenaciously take over communities
>> by
>>> wearing down their opposition by creating non stop controversy, as the
>>> "bikes on the PCT folks" are trying to here"A policy which this Peavey
>>> person apparently chooses not to follow.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 15:18:25 -0700
> From: Kristy Margulieux <kmmarg at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Trail angel etiquette advice
> To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <92B7F0C8-DF28-4326-8125-FFD331E4D0A6 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hello list serve!
> As a rule, is it better to try to ask trail angels for help days in advance or is it ok to call when you get to a trail/road junction? Thanks!
> K
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 15:22:43 -0700
> From: Cat Nelson <sagegirl51 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail angel etiquette advice
> To: Kristy Margulieux <kmmarg at gmail.com>
> Cc: Pct-L at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CAH9fG21p8enMgOXy_NhRjksX6E8HkuM4rh2-0qAGyUnNbap1qw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Depends on what you need.
>
> Cat
> sagegirl51 at gmail.com
> WA Trail Angel
> 253-861-3425
> On May 14, 2013 3:18 PM, "Kristy Margulieux" <kmmarg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello list serve!
>> As a rule, is it better to try to ask trail angels for help days in
>> advance or is it ok to call when you get to a trail/road junction? Thanks!
>> K
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:22:47 -0600
> From: Devon Taig <devon.taig at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Admin Note. Must Read. was: The Mountain Bike
> problem
> To: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> Cc: Pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAJ-PrArf+0rT8vyYtbU3s-vvgieCLifrzG5MNWtNg2kdyzShJA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Ah, so here's the post that has me hot under the collar. And hotter still
> after reading it thru.
> *
> *
> *"It is the apparent tactic of the IMBA (International Mountain Bike*
> *Association) and their cohorts to tenaciously take over communities by
> wearing down their opposition by creating non stop controversy, as the
> "bikes on the PCT folks" are trying to here"*
> *
> *
> Is it not through the very process of "creating controversy" that we create
> lasting and meaningful change in this country for the better? Probably 100
> years ago, pro-woman opinion anywhere would have been deemed rabble-rousing
> (but no longer), 50 years ago, pro-black thoughts would have made the
> majority squirm (we know better now), and maybe five years ago, many an
> email list-server (though I doubt this one) would have banned anything
> remotely pro-gay. Politics, my friends, aren't just on the national scene.
> They are on the PCT itself. If you ban a voice simply because it does not
> agree with your thoughts, that is not just un-American, it is intolerable.
> Absolutely intolerable.
>
> While I object even to your first sentence, "*Discussions about allowing
> bikes on the PCT is off topic on this list*", it's the second sentence, *"Do
> not post anything advocating opening the PCT to bicycles" *that really
> makes me shake my head. As an occasional contributor to this list and a
> real supporter of PCT hikers, it pains me to leave, but until this policy
> is changed, please remove me from further posts.
>
> Brick, as I won't be receiving posts any longer, please inform me directly
> if the policy is changed.
>
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 6:33 AM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>wrote:
>
>> Admin Note:
>>
>> Discussions about allowing bikes on the PCT is off topic on this list.
>> Do not post anything advocating opening the PCT to bicycles.
>>
>> It is the apparent tactic of the IMBA (International Mountain Bike
>> Association) and their cohorts to tenaciously take over communities by
>> wearing down their opposition by creating non stop controversy, as the
>> "bikes on the PCT folks" are trying to here
>>
>> The administrator of this list takes the same position as the PCTA: No
>> bikes on the PCT.
>>
>> Vehicular traffic (bicycles) and pedestrians don't mix which is why
>> most cities do not allow bicycles on the sidewalk.
>>
>> I am also aware that the Pro Bike group actively monitors this list,
>> and I specifically deny permission to reproduce this post in whole or
>> in part to any other location, whether electronically or in print.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 15:40:33 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Barry Teschlog <tokencivilian at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1368571233.97182.YahooMailNeo at web124505.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Devon Taig wrote:
> "SaveThePCT" is, I can only imagine by its name, not particularly impartial
> on the topic of bikes. Clearly there should be a place where people with
> differing opinions on a range of PCT relevant topics can discuss things in
> a civil manner.
>
> Reply:
> And one can imagine that by their names "Share the PCT" and "Wilderness B" are also not particularly impartial on the topic of bikes destroying the PCT and Wilderness, respectively.
>
>
> On the 2nd quoted sentence:? The MTBers came onto the "Pacific Crest Trail" FB page and more or less destroyed the discussion about the PCT, with repeated flame posts, spam, junk posts, blatant lies (e.g. "hikers do zero trail work", "the PCTA has said they can't take care of the PCT") and the rest, prior to the moderators apparently banning / kicking them out.? This MTBer behavior on that page a few months back is a microcosm of what would happen if bikes were allowed on the PCT - aggressive, obnoxious individuals would drive away the existing (hiker and equestrian) user community, destroying the trail for the current users - just as the MTBers were in the process of destroying the PCT FB page before the mods put their foot down.? The PCT FB page is now back to it's former self - a great venue for PCT discussion.
>
> Brick:? Thank you for keeping the PCT-L a great place to discuss the PCT.
>
>
> Devon,? apparently one can't have a reasonable conversation with a MTBer since no matter how many times it's said to them they just don't get or care that the mere possibility of having a bike come screaming down a trail ruins the experience for many a hiker and equestrian (and never mind the actual fact of being, or nearly being run down).? Impacts to other users seemingly don't register on MTBer radar screens - hikers and equestrians it would seem count for naught in their book.? Based on their words and actions, the only users that matter are MTBers and to heck with everyone else.??
>
> And as Mendo Rider as said - REPORT, REPORT, REPORT bikers on the PCT to the proper authorities.? Pictures, dates, descriptions, numbers, vandalism, damage, etc.? Your report may be the one that provides the final clue as to when & where these scofflaws typically poach, which will allow the long arm of the Law to find and punish the guilty parties.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:39:16 -0700
> From: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] When will the Oregon/WA sections be hikeable?
> To: Carrie Jilek <fancyjilek at gmail.com>
> Cc: PCT MailingList <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAPGobY1hFAw3zicB-FUpkcEW07=a-JKo+BQ2b+8Kjtp711m7tw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>> From Hwy. 140 north, the Oregon Cascades are usually hikeable by Aug. 1. In
> some years, lighter snow allows slightly earlier starts, but July is always
> a mosquito hell in the Cascades and frequently involves a good deal of snow
> travel. This has been a fairly normal snow year in Central Oregon, without
> the late spring snow of the last two years.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Carrie Jilek <fancyjilek at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey All,
>>
>> I've been out hiking in Southern California and the weather has been pretty
>> miserable on my body. Does anybody know when the Oregon/ WA sections become
>> hikeable- no snow skills necessary? The PCT is great, but enjoying it would
>> be even better.
>>
>> Another option would be- is anybody planning on going from Southern
>> California to Kennedy Meadows anytime soon? Pitch in on gas money.
>>
>> thanks so much for any input.
>>
>> Carrie
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:43:49 -0700
> From: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: Devon Taig <devon.taig at gmail.com>, PCT MailingList
> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAPGobY0XqR1KG3MxKvTQRRJOoCpKtJ+r63iuSfB5XufujYnJmw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Whether you have zero tolerance for censorship isn't the issue. This isn't
> the press; it's a privately moderated forum. Those who administrate it can
> censor you all they wish.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:28 PM, Devon Taig <devon.taig at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> When was the "no pro mountain bike posts" ban put in place? I posted
>> something pro bike on October 12 last year that did make it onto the list.
>> It was in fact copied from there and used on the PCT mountain bike
>> facebook page (with my permission) as evidence that not all hikers (I'm not
>> a cyclist myself) are opposed to their presence.
>> While I do agree we don't need to rehash the "great bike debate" again (at
>> least not for a year or more), I really hope it isn't the case that anyones
>> opinions aren't being considered. I have zero tolerance for censorship.
>> None.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> To the best of my knowledge the 'Save the PCT' page has been, for lack of
>>> a better term, abandoned.
>>>
>>> It was closed long ago to any sort of open discussion.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately it is the Admins choice to disallow any pro-MTB posts...I
>>> find it silly
>>> to that he approves solely 1 sided discussions...
>>>
>>> Such a policy only promotes more 'Group Think', or 'head-in-the-sand'
>>> mentality.
>>>
>>> On a side note - it is very good to read that the hiking season is going
>>> very well for the 'thru' crowd.
>>>
>>> Quite an adventure!
>>>
>>> - Nick
>>>
>>> Dan Wrote:
>>> "The Facebook page or ??? Tried to go to the Save the PCT Facebook page
>>> about a month ago and couldn't find it. Dan Jacobs
>>> Washougal"
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:48:05 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1368575285.89828.YahooMailNeo at web121806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Barry Teschlog Wrote:
>
> And as Mendo Rider as said - REPORT, REPORT, REPORT bikers on the PCT to the proper authorities. ?Pictures, dates, descriptions, numbers, vandalism, damage, etc. ?Your report may be the one that provides the final clue as to when & where these scofflaws typically poach, which will allow the long arm of the Law to find and punish the guilty parties.
>
>
> ________________________________________
>
> Good Afternoon Mr. Teshclog,
>
> Thank you very much for advising the 'Report' approach when it comes to encountering another trail user you do not care for. ?
>
> It is refreshing to read a such a level-headed and?appropriate?response.
>
> Love,
> Nick
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:51:36 -0700
> From: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAPGobY05C38n5Ny4Pas+85DAOzuFdi20Yc+tna-B=s4sRxfP-w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> "Unfortunately it is the Admins choice to disallow any pro-MTB posts...I
> find it silly
> to that he approves solely 1 sided discussions..."
>
> I don't find it silly at all. This is a forum for backpackers and
> equestrians who use and care for the PCT. The people who use this forum and
> the people who moderate it have no responsibility, legally or morally, to
> provide equal time to all sides of an issue. There is overwhelming
> opposition here to use of bicycles on the PCT. If you don't like that, go
> elsewhere. It's not meant to be a democratic town hall meeting.
>
> The fact that I have frequently met mountain bikers on the trail- when they
> know they're not supposed to be, and then they always proceed to claim
> ignorance- makes me interested in hearing the opinions of the mountain
> biking community less and less. If they lie and disrespect the trail BEFORE
> they are allowed on it, why should one imagine their behavior would improve
> AFTER they were allowed?
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> To the best of my knowledge the 'Save the PCT' page has been, for lack of
>> a better term, abandoned.
>>
>> It was closed long ago to any sort of open discussion.
>>
>> Unfortunately it is the Admins choice to disallow any pro-MTB posts...I
>> find it silly
>> to that he approves solely 1 sided discussions...
>>
>> Such a policy only promotes more 'Group Think', or 'head-in-the-sand'
>> mentality.
>>
>> On a side note - it is very good to read that the hiking season is going
>> very well for the 'thru' crowd.
>>
>> Quite an adventure!
>>
>> - Nick
>>
>> Dan Wrote:
>> "The Facebook page or ??? Tried to go to the Save the PCT Facebook page
>> about a month ago and couldn't find it. Dan Jacobs
>> Washougal"
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 19:59:33 -0400 (EDT)
> From: tsparks56 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail angel etiquette advice
> To: kmmarg at gmail.com, Pct-L at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <8D01F1636180D0C-18B4-1ECB2 at webmail-d298.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Kristy,
> I would think that in asking a stranger to do us a favor, it would be the most polite thing to contact them as soon as your plans allow. If necessary, contact the trail angel again, just before arriving at your destination as discussed in your first contact, be it phone or email.
>
> Just my thoughts.
>
> Terry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristy Margulieux <kmmarg at gmail.com>
> To: Pct-L <Pct-L at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tue, May 14, 2013 3:18 pm
> Subject: [pct-l] Trail angel etiquette advice
>
>
> Hello list serve!
> As a rule, is it better to try to ask trail angels for help days in advance or
> is it ok to call when you get to a trail/road junction? Thanks!
> K
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 20:03:10 -0400
> From: "JPL" <jplynch at crosslink.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: "Barry Teschlog" <tokencivilian at yahoo.com>, "PCT-L"
> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <BD8FACCBAC924B9D916E30972058373A at jpl3PC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> As a note. I'm a moderator of a FB page and we occasionally have to kick
> people off, or deny membership to those that demonstrably have no interest
> in the topic (of the page). This has been the case since the old bulletin
> board days and "flame wars". Malcontents will destroy a virtual
> un-moderated venue hiding behind their anonymity (usually) or more often
> using the forum to promote their own cause.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Teschlog
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 6:40 PM
> To: PCT-L
> Subject: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
> Devon Taig wrote:
> "SaveThePCT" is, I can only imagine by its name, not particularly impartial
> on the topic of bikes. Clearly there should be a place where people with
> differing opinions on a range of PCT relevant topics can discuss things in
> a civil manner.
>
> Reply:
> And one can imagine that by their names "Share the PCT" and "Wilderness B"
> are also not particularly impartial on the topic of bikes destroying the PCT
> and Wilderness, respectively.
>
>
> On the 2nd quoted sentence: The MTBers came onto the "Pacific Crest Trail"
> FB page and more or less destroyed the discussion about the PCT, with
> repeated flame posts, spam, junk posts, blatant lies (e.g. "hikers do zero
> trail work", "the PCTA has said they can't take care of the PCT") and the
> rest, prior to the moderators apparently banning / kicking them out. This
> MTBer behavior on that page a few months back is a microcosm of what would
> happen if bikes were allowed on the PCT - aggressive, obnoxious individuals
> would drive away the existing (hiker and equestrian) user community,
> destroying the trail for the current users - just as the MTBers were in the
> process of destroying the PCT FB page before the mods put their foot down.
> The PCT FB page is now back to it's former self - a great venue for PCT
> discussion.
>
> Brick: Thank you for keeping the PCT-L a great place to discuss the PCT.
>
>
> Devon, apparently one can't have a reasonable conversation with a MTBer
> since no matter how many times it's said to them they just don't get or care
> that the mere possibility of having a bike come screaming down a trail ruins
> the experience for many a hiker and equestrian (and never mind the actual
> fact of being, or nearly being run down). Impacts to other users seemingly
> don't register on MTBer radar screens - hikers and equestrians it would seem
> count for naught in their book. Based on their words and actions, the only
> users that matter are MTBers and to heck with everyone else.
>
> And as Mendo Rider as said - REPORT, REPORT, REPORT bikers on the PCT to the
> proper authorities. Pictures, dates, descriptions, numbers, vandalism,
> damage, etc. Your report may be the one that provides the final clue as to
> when & where these scofflaws typically poach, which will allow the long arm
> of the Law to find and punish the guilty parties.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 17:04:10 -0700
> From: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAPGobY1sbFBzDNakQHr4bSveLtHtps1G1ci_LU-ejL=MxgU+GQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> They aren't another trail user- they are a trail abuser. Any biker on the
> PCT is breaking the law, egregioiusly and willingly. They have no reason
> whatsoever to expect level-headed and respectful treatment from the *
> legitimate* users of the trail, no more than someone trespassing knowingly
> on my property should expect civil treatment from me.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Barry Teschlog Wrote:
>>
>> And as Mendo Rider as said - REPORT, REPORT, REPORT bikers on the PCT to
>> the proper authorities. Pictures, dates, descriptions, numbers, vandalism,
>> damage, etc. Your report may be the one that provides the final clue as to
>> when & where these scofflaws typically poach, which will allow the long arm
>> of the Law to find and punish the guilty parties.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>>
>> Good Afternoon Mr. Teshclog,
>>
>> Thank you very much for advising the 'Report' approach when it comes to
>> encountering another trail user you do not care for.
>>
>> It is refreshing to read a such a level-headed and appropriate response.
>>
>> Love,
>> Nick
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 17:09:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1368576569.12716.YahooMailNeo at web121806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> But therein lies the rub - the PCT is most?definitely?NOT your personal or private property...
>
> Being rude = fine. ?You may expect it in return....which simply leaves bad feelings for everyone (not good..blah..and sad)
>
> The ONLY legal recourse you have is to report...as Mr. Teschlog stated earlier.
>
> easy peasy.
>
> Love,
> Nick
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
>
>
> They aren't another trail user- they are a trail abuser. Any biker on the PCT is breaking the law, egregioiusly and willingly. They have no reason whatsoever to expect level-headed and respectful treatment from the legitimate users of the trail, no more than someone trespassing knowingly on my property should expect civil treatment from me.
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Barry Teschlog Wrote:
>>
>> And as Mendo Rider as said - REPORT, REPORT, REPORT bikers on the PCT to the proper authorities. ?Pictures, dates, descriptions, numbers, vandalism, damage, etc. ?Your report may be the one that provides the final clue as to when & where these scofflaws typically poach, which will allow the long arm of the Law to find and punish the guilty parties.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>>
>> Good Afternoon Mr. Teshclog,
>>
>> Thank you very much for advising the 'Report' approach when it comes to encountering another trail user you do not care for. ?
>>
>> It is refreshing to read a such a level-headed and?appropriate?response.
>>
>> Love,
>> Nick
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 20:11:58 -0400 (EDT)
> From: tsparks56 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: judsonwb at gmail.com, nthelen03 at yahoo.com
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <8D01F17F36BE501-18B4-1ED61 at webmail-d298.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
>
>
> They aren't another trail user- they are a trail abuser. Any biker on the
> PCT is breaking the law, egregioiusly and willingly. They have no reason
> whatsoever to expect level-headed and respectful treatment from the *
> legitimate* users of the trail, no more than someone trespassing knowingly
> on my property should expect civil treatment from me.
>
> Dang Judson, if you feel that strongly about the murdering, raping and pillaging Mt.bikers, why don't you just spray the fools head to toe with a can of bear spray?
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tue, May 14, 2013 5:04 pm
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
>
> They aren't another trail user- they are a trail abuser. Any biker on the
> PCT is breaking the law, egregioiusly and willingly. They have no reason
> whatsoever to expect level-headed and respectful treatment from the *
> legitimate* users of the trail, no more than someone trespassing knowingly
> on my property should expect civil treatment from me.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Barry Teschlog Wrote:
>>
>> And as Mendo Rider as said - REPORT, REPORT, REPORT bikers on the PCT to
>> the proper authorities. Pictures, dates, descriptions, numbers, vandalism,
>> damage, etc. Your report may be the one that provides the final clue as to
>> when & where these scofflaws typically poach, which will allow the long arm
>> of the Law to find and punish the guilty parties.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>>
>> Good Afternoon Mr. Teshclog,
>>
>> Thank you very much for advising the 'Report' approach when it comes to
>> encountering another trail user you do not care for.
>>
>> It is refreshing to read a such a level-headed and appropriate response.
>>
>> Love,
>> Nick
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 20:17:51 -0400
> From: "JPL" <jplynch at crosslink.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: "Nick Thelen" <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>, "Judson Brown"
> <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <CEE2575C311E490290D7D326BC8A47D7 at jpl3PC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> But we are stewards of the PCT as we are of any public property. We need to
> be prepared to call out wrong doers, hopefully helping them see the error of
> their ways, but also in the case of obviously willful law-breaking, inform
> the proper authorities.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Thelen
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:09 PM
> To: Judson Brown
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
> But therein lies the rub - the PCT is most definitely NOT your personal or
> private property...
>
> Being rude = fine. You may expect it in return....which simply leaves bad
> feelings for everyone (not good..blah..and sad)
>
> The ONLY legal recourse you have is to report...as Mr. Teschlog stated
> earlier.
>
> easy peasy.
>
> Love,
> Nick
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
>
>
> They aren't another trail user- they are a trail abuser. Any biker on the
> PCT is breaking the law, egregioiusly and willingly. They have no reason
> whatsoever to expect level-headed and respectful treatment from the
> legitimate users of the trail, no more than someone trespassing knowingly on
> my property should expect civil treatment from me.
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Barry Teschlog Wrote:
>>
>> And as Mendo Rider as said - REPORT, REPORT, REPORT bikers on the PCT to
>> the proper authorities. Pictures, dates, descriptions, numbers, vandalism,
>> damage, etc. Your report may be the one that provides the final clue as to
>> when & where these scofflaws typically poach, which will allow the long arm
>> of the Law to find and punish the guilty parties.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>>
>> Good Afternoon Mr. Teshclog,
>>
>> Thank you very much for advising the 'Report' approach when it comes to
>> encountering another trail user you do not care for.
>>
>> It is refreshing to read a such a level-headed and appropriate response.
>>
>> Love,
>> Nick
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 17:32:13 -0700
> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] 3rd Gate Crossing Water Cache
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <FEA76624-A2D8-4E32-BFE2-A678A0ECB77D at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> I believe it is stocked only once a year. Your best option is to just
> load up your pack when you begin. If you load up on water for a full
> day or day and a half of hiking plus an overnight, you should be at
> Barrel Spring before you run out no problem. Don't forget to pre-
> hydrate.
>
> On May 14, 2013, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>
>> From: Don Amundson <amrowinc at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: [pct-l] 3rd Gate Crossing Water Cache
>>
>> I'm doing a short section from Scissors Crossing to Warner Springs
>> Jun 1. I was wondering if the 3rd Gate water cache is still being
>> stocked at that time. Does anyone have info about that or know of
>> who to contact? Thanks.
>>
>> Still Lookin'
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 17:33:21 -0700
> From: mark utzman <blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Dog Sitting
> To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAJ9hrMU85h-yfFJAZ8KU87UqEQUH7MPTyyV_d0n=cswKO1mAbw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Good Afternoon,
>
> I am planning another thru-hike attempt next year in 2014.
> Does anyone know of a kennel or dog boarding that I can look into to watch
> and care for my dog, a Jack Russel Terror, while I am on the trail? Friends
> or family, you say? Nope. They are all against my plans to thru-hike. No
> help there. I looked into "regular" kennels, and they average about $20 a
> day, a small fortune for a 4 or 5 month thru-hike. I have also considering
> letting a good home adopt him, but that is a hard decision. Anybody with
> experience in this arena or someone with an opinion would be taken to
> heart. Thanks, Mark
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 20:46:41 -0400
> From: "Leden Stapper" <2heeldr at myway.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20130514204641.28969 at web001.roc2.bluetie.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Ok, Im not crazy about the BIKERS on a hiking trail, On trails that allow them these bikes become a real hazard to all, rushing up behind, "On the Left" or ringing a bell, just about makes you jump out of your shoes.
> When they are coming at you they act as if they have the right of way, and do they enjoy the same privileges the horses have, Always the right of way.
> Im not overwhelmed by the Horses, but never had been snuck up on by one, only those nice compost piles they leave around.
>
> The equestrians that do enjoy the trail are also the same that can get gear and supplies deep into areas that would break your back humping stuff to and thanks to them the grades for the PCT are not steep at all, although a few sections are big steps up.
> I would be bold enough to speculate that BIKERS would be racing and wanting jumps.
>
> So, to get to the point, I recall reading of a way to report bikes on the trail, Anyone have that info, Im not about to confront a BIKER, especially out in the middle of no where near, those guys have helmets and tight pants, very similar to Footballers, so observe, and report, but to whom.
>
>
> According to custom, in the future we shall call this kind of march a tardeada , which is practiced when it is not possible to accomplish the whole of it in one day.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 17:56:51 -0700
> From: "Jim Banks" <jbanks4 at socal.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: "'Leden Stapper'" <2heeldr at myway.com>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <005701ce5107$16671b80$43355280$@rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> To report a bike on the PCT go to www.fs.usda.gov/detail/pct/home
>
> Then go to quick links on the right hand side of the page and click on
> "Report Incidents."
>
> Also report illegal campfires here. Should also let the PCTA know.
>
>
> I-Beam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Leden Stapper
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:47 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
> Ok, Im not crazy about the BIKERS on a hiking trail, On trails that allow
> them these bikes become a real hazard to all, rushing up behind, "On the
> Left" or ringing a bell, just about makes you jump out of your shoes.
> When they are coming at you they act as if they have the right of way, and
> do they enjoy the same privileges the horses have, Always the right of way.
> Im not overwhelmed by the Horses, but never had been snuck up on by one,
> only those nice compost piles they leave around.
>
> The equestrians that do enjoy the trail are also the same that can get gear
> and supplies deep into areas that would break your back humping stuff to and
> thanks to them the grades for the PCT are not steep at all, although a few
> sections are big steps up.
> I would be bold enough to speculate that BIKERS would be racing and wanting
> jumps.
>
> So, to get to the point, I recall reading of a way to report bikes on the
> trail, Anyone have that info, Im not about to confront a BIKER, especially
> out in the middle of no where near, those guys have helmets and tight pants,
> very similar to Footballers, so observe, and report, but to whom.
>
>
> According to custom, in the future we shall call this kind of march a
> tardeada , which is practiced when it is not possible to accomplish the
> whole of it in one day.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 31
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 18:29:36 -0700 (PDT)
> From: randall welch <rwelch5 at att.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>, Judson Brown
> <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1368581376.62739.YahooMailRC at web180901.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi Nick,
> There is no rub. No one here is assuming that the trail is their personal or
> private property. The trail is open to everyone who uses it within the bounds of
> current law. The trail is fully accessible to you and your friends...no person
> is excluded.
>
> However, many activities?are?prohibited on the trail.?For instance, offroad
> vehicles (ORV's)?are not allowed, no matter how they are powered (human, or
> motor driven).
> Unfortunately for your group, you really aren't seeking to gain?access, because
> you already have access. The truth is, what you and your group are seeking is a
> form of special?access above and beyond what is afforded to all other use
> groups. Worse,?you seek special privilege for an activity that is already
> specifically prohibited. This is where your group and its approach to the issue
> seems dubious and/or dishonest. After all, this issue isn't about "Sharing the
> PCT", because it's already being shared with you. This is more about your group
> wanting special?ORV access to the trail...Isn't it?
> Randy
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> To: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tue, May 14, 2013 5:09:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
> But therein lies the rub - the PCT is most?definitely?NOT your personal or
> private property...
>
> Being rude = fine. ?You may expect it in return....which simply leaves bad
> feelings for everyone (not good..blah..and sad)
>
> The ONLY legal recourse you have is to report...as Mr. Teschlog stated earlier.
>
> easy peasy.
>
> Love,
> Nick
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
>
>
> They aren't another trail user- they are a trail abuser. Any biker on the PCT is
> breaking the law, egregioiusly and willingly. They have no reason whatsoever to
> expect level-headed and respectful treatment from the legitimate users of the
> trail, no more than someone trespassing knowingly on my property should expect
> civil treatment from me.
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Barry Teschlog Wrote:
>>
>> And as Mendo Rider as said - REPORT, REPORT, REPORT bikers on the PCT to the
>> proper authorities. ?Pictures, dates, descriptions, numbers, vandalism, damage,
>> etc. ?Your report may be the one that provides the final clue as to when & where
>> these scofflaws typically poach, which will allow the long arm of the Law to
>> find and punish the guilty parties.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>>
>> Good Afternoon Mr. Teshclog,
>>
>> Thank you very much for advising the 'Report' approach when it comes to
>> encountering another trail user you do not care for. ?
>>
>> It is refreshing to read a such a level-headed and?appropriate?response.
>>
>> Love,
>> Nick
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 32
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 19:38:40 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>, "pct-l at backcountry.net"
> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1368585520.42468.YahooMailNeo at web126202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I think that most of the MBers, realize that they will not get legal access to the PCT or Wilderness Areas or the wilderness parts of the National Parks. Twice, I met "roving Rangers" while riding the PCT/JMT last summer. They were polite and just wanted to verify that I had the bear canisters that were required in some areas (I had two - one for my food and the other for my horse's supplement of processed horse feed) and that I had a Wilderness Permit. If they came upon a Mountain Biker, a citation would be written. The MBers and other bicyclers, also realize, and accept, that they can't ride on sidewalks or on freeways. They know that they will be ticketed and fined if they ride in those places. Much of the PCT, where it passes through National Forests and BLM lands is vulnerable since there is little enforcement.? Those Mountain Bikers who are willing to break the law and ride there anyway know this. And the word gets around.? So, what I have
> suggested is that we document and REPORT all illegal sightings.
>
>
> The best way to catch them is at PCT road crossings and trail heads where they boldly park their vehicles, complete with bike racks. One way to be a PCT trail volunteer (in addition to physically working on it), would be to take pictures of everything - the vehicle, including the bike rack and license plate, the PCT post showing the bike emblem with the red slash, the wheel tracks going up the PCT. Then just wait for them to return (these people are day riders who will be gone only a few hours, and many of them just want to fly down hills for the thrill of it). Now take their pictures (with a digital camera that will record the date and time when the pictures were taken) as they return and load their bikes. Take your pictures from a distance, from your parked vehicle. Get good face identification. Now report, with all the evidence, at the District Office of the National Forest where it happened. When the word gets around that they are being watched and
> that the fine is substantial, they will refrain from using the PCT with wheels. They are welcome to use the PCT like the rest of us, legally - to hike or ride a horse. I want to point out, for those who might not be aware, that the PCT was designated as a National Scenic Trail by an act of Congress in 1968 - about seven years before the invention of Mountain Bikes. It is described as a foot trail - for hikers and stock. Any kind of mechanized travel (wheels) is clearly prohibited.? This has recently been verified and upheld by the National Forest Service. The MBers were there in force and they lost in their attempt to gain legal access to the PCT.
>
> MendoRider-Hiker
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
>
> They aren't another trail user- they are a trail abuser. Any biker on the
> PCT is breaking the law, egregioiusly and willingly. They have no reason
> whatsoever to expect level-headed and respectful treatment from the *
> legitimate* users of the trail, no more than someone trespassing knowingly
> on my property should expect civil treatment from me.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Barry Teschlog Wrote:
>>
>> And as Mendo Rider as said - REPORT, REPORT, REPORT bikers on the PCT to
>> the proper authorities.? Pictures, dates, descriptions, numbers, vandalism,
>> damage, etc.? Your report may be the one that provides the final clue as to
>> when & where these scofflaws typically poach, which will allow the long arm
>> of the Law to find and punish the guilty parties.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>>
>> Good Afternoon Mr. Teshclog,
>>
>> Thank you very much for advising the 'Report' approach when it comes to
>> encountering another trail user you do not care for.
>>
>> It is refreshing to read a such a level-headed and appropriate response.
>>
>> Love,
>> Nick
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
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>
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 33
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 20:36:29 -0700
> From: Taylor Matheson <tmatheson33 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Dog sitting
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <52B22C0E-1429-4C83-A8F8-719EAE500FB7 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I would call your local rescue league and see if they have any suggestions. There might be a foster home around that would watch him or her.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 34
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 21:03:05 -0700
> From: Rod Miller <rod at rodmiller.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dog Sitting
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <519308F9.5000609 at rodmiller.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 5/14/13 5:33 PM, mark utzman wrote:
>> Good Afternoon,
>>
>> I am planning another thru-hike attempt next year in 2014.
>> Does anyone know of a kennel or dog boarding that I can look into to watch
>> and care for my dog, a Jack Russel Terror, while I am on the trail? Friends
>> or family, you say? Nope. They are all against my plans to thru-hike. No
>> help there. I looked into "regular" kennels, and they average about $20 a
>> day, a small fortune for a 4 or 5 month thru-hike. I have also considering
>> letting a good home adopt him, but that is a hard decision. Anybody with
>> experience in this arena or someone with an opinion would be taken to
>> heart. Thanks, Mark
>
> Where are your located? There may be people on this group
> who could help with adopting or fostering your dog.
>
> Rod
>
> --
>
> Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, | O Scale West / S West
> Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More | 2014 Meet is Feb 6 - 8
> http://www.rodmiller.com | http://www.oscalewest.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 35
> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 13:32:20 -0700
> From: Theresa Sorensen <tkmast at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] ultralight trekking pole
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <E4F33826-2FD7-4BA6-9A2F-215E3E402D87 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I second the Leki recommendation.
> And this is my first post in here & I wanna see if I did this right! I'm leaving mid June from Sierra City and doing 1/2 the trail northbound.
>
> Enjoy your travels everyone!
>
> T
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 36
> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 17:35:34 -0700
> From: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] hitching/ride from i10 to cabazon?
> To: Ron Dye <chiefcowboy at verizon.net>
> Cc: "<Pct-l at backcountry.net>" <pct-l at backcountry.net>, Terry
> <tsparks56 at aol.com>, Ron Ronron <oldlemonparty at gmail.com>
> Message-ID:
> <CAGxcj13NQH1T_bL3oAnAbQxMO-ZPAS+eb1MD_SG0fcNUqhNuQQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> We easily got a ride from an old Native American guy at that on-ramp just
> east of the trail under-crossing, and he put 3 of us in the cab of his old
> pick up and we got into Cabazon without a problem. There's not a lot of
> traffic, but it did have a reasonable number of vehicles on the road.
>
> Shroomer
>
>
> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 5:40 PM, <chiefcowboy at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Just east of where the trail cross is an on-off ramp for Lehman-Haughen
>> Drive (named after two deputy sheriff's who were murdered nearby). The
>> on-ramp is the best place to hitch. The frontage road gets minimal
>> traffic.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Terry
>> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 5:16 PM
>> To: Ron Ronron
>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] hitching/ride from i10 to cabazon?
>>
>> If I remember correctly, where the trail crosses under I-10 is about 3
>> miles
>> East of Cabazon, with a not so well traveled road connecting the two. I
>> would just start walking and stick out my thumb whenever a car drives by.
>> The other option would be to call a taxi out of Banning but with that, you
>> could just about be in Cabazon by the time it gets to you.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 12, 2013, at 4:24 PM, Ron Ronron <oldlemonparty at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Should I just walk it?
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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>>
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>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 37
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 13:08:28 -0600
> From: Emily Boys <irene5635 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Lavender for bug repellant?
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <E664F787-7DA5-4E9B-A62C-ED09C82377CA at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hey, wondering if anyone has used or knows about using lavender ( essential oil I guess) to repel bugs... I've heard this works but not from any really outdoorsy people.
> Think it would attract bears?
> Emily
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 38
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 21:16:47 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
> To: "chiefcowboy at verizon.net" <chiefcowboy at verizon.net>,
> "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1368591407.79284.YahooMailNeo at web121801.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi Chiefcowboy,
>
> Please consult your attorney on the pros/cons of attempting a Citizen's arrest - pretty sure it's not that straight forward. Maybe Timothy Nye will chime in (pretty sure he was an attorney).
>
> I believe it's akin to seizing someone's car and detaining them against their will for doing 80 in a 55. ?It can really backfire on you if you are not very, very?careful.
>
> Besides, common sense dictates such an attempt in the backcountry is just downright dumb....it's potential to end poorly for ALL involved is high.
>
> So, good luck with your MTB rider detention and property seizing efforts...I look forward to reading about it in the news.
>
> Love,
> Nick
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "chiefcowboy at verizon.net" <chiefcowboy at verizon.net>
> To: tsparks56 at aol.com; judsonwb at gmail.com; nthelen03 at yahoo.com
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 6:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
>
> I? would rather exercise my right as a citizen to perform a Citizen's
> Arrest, and deliver them and their offending bike to the nearest law
> enforcement official.? It would be worth the detour required and the case
> wouldn't even be heard until I had completed my thru-hike.? Oh, and I would,
> of course, seize the bike as evidence of their wrong-doing.
>
> Just a thought folks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tsparks56 at aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 5:11 PM
> To: judsonwb at gmail.com ; nthelen03 at yahoo.com
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
>
>
>
>
> They aren't another trail user- they are a trail abuser. Any biker on the
> PCT is breaking the law, egregioiusly and willingly. They have no reason
> whatsoever to expect level-headed and respectful treatment from the *
> legitimate* users of the trail, no more than someone trespassing knowingly
> on my property should expect civil treatment from me.
>
> Dang Judson, if you feel that strongly about the murdering, raping and
> pillaging Mt.bikers, why don't you just spray the fools head to toe with a
> can of bear spray?
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Judson Brown <judsonwb at gmail.com>
> To: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tue, May 14, 2013 5:04 pm
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mountain Bike Posts
>
>
> They aren't another trail user- they are a trail abuser. Any biker on the
> PCT is breaking the law, egregioiusly and willingly. They have no reason
> whatsoever to expect level-headed and respectful treatment from the *
> legitimate* users of the trail, no more than someone trespassing knowingly
> on my property should expect civil treatment from me.
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Barry Teschlog Wrote:
>>
>> And as Mendo Rider as said - REPORT, REPORT, REPORT bikers on the PCT to
>> the proper authorities.? Pictures, dates, descriptions, numbers,
>> vandalism,
>> damage, etc.? Your report may be the one that provides the final clue as
>> to
>> when & where these scofflaws typically poach, which will allow the long
>> arm
>> of the Law to find and punish the guilty parties.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>>
>> Good Afternoon Mr. Teshclog,
>>
>> Thank you very much for advising the 'Report' approach when it comes to
>> encountering another trail user you do not care for.
>>
>> It is refreshing to read a such a level-headed and appropriate response.
>>
>> Love,
>> Nick
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 65, Issue 18
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