[pct-l] C-A-M-P-F-I-R-E-S / And the Mountain Bike problem

Ron chiefcowboy at verizon.net
Sun May 12 22:10:17 CDT 2013 

Well said.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Smartphone

Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hey Dan,
>
>I respectfully disagree with your post - that discussion relating to illegal MB's on the PCT does not belong on the PCT-L list, that there are "appropriate venues for the discussion of bicycles on the PCT".  
>The PCT-L is where PCT users post and read posts relating, specifically, to the PCT. Where else would you suggest?  And why? Would you post on venues that PCT users are unlikely to see? Why?
>
>You don't seem to be bothered by illegal MB's on the PCT - at least you would rather not have others discuss the problem, and suggest possible solutions to discourage the MB'ers. People on this forum 
>love the PCT and want to protect and preserve it. The PCT is a very special trail. As far as I know, it is the ONLY long trail in the west where wheels are not allowed. There are many, many, many multi-use 
>trails where bicycles are allowed. We have this one special, wonderful, trail where we can be away from mechanized means of travel. It is a place where equestrians, like myself, can expect to be free from 
>being exposed to the risks of mountain bikes and dirt bikes.  Yes, there are places on the PCT where they sneak on. Hikers and equestrians should photograph and report them whenever possible, just as 
>they should illegal campfires. The MB problem deserves discussion on this forum.
>
>Now I have to wonder, Dan, just how familiar you are with the PCT. How much of it, how many miles, and which Sections have you actually hiked yourself?  If you have, you can't avoid having observed the trail damage that illegal MB"s have caused in some areas. Doesn't that bother you more than those who post about it on this forum?
>
>MendoRider-hiker
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Dan Jacobs <youroldpaldan at gmail.com>
>To: pct-l at backcountry.net 
>Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 4:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] C-A-M-P-F-I-R-E-S / And the Mountain Bike problem
> 
>
>I believe this discussion belongs off list. There are appropriate venues
>for the discussion of bicycles on the PCT, and it had been shown over and
>over that this isn't one of them.
>
>Dan Jacobs
>Washougal
>On May 12, 2013 3:28 PM, "jason povey" <golobos_55 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Well then we need to lobby congress because bikes do far less damage to a
>> trail than horses.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>  From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
>> To: "gary_schenk at verizon.net" <gary_schenk at verizon.net>; "
>> pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 12:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] C-A-M-P-F-I-R-E-S / And the Mountain Bike problem
>>
>>
>> Hello Gary,
>>
>> I also break up and scatter illegal fire ring rocks.
>>
>> You also mentioned that you aren't concerned about illegal mountain bikes
>> and dirt bikes on the PCT. Here are three reasons why they should not be on
>> the PCT.
>>
>>      1)  They are illegal - it is against the law, designated by an act of
>> congress in 1968. Wheels are not allowed anywhere on the PCT. It is for the
>> use of hikers and equestrians only.
>>      2)  Substantial tread/trail damage can result
> from the lineal groves
>> left behind by wheels. The worst groves are those left by bikers who brake
>> hard, locking the wheels, and dragging the tires down.
>>  This is especially noticeable on slopes - when it rains, water will run
>> down those groves,which become ruts - which become ditches. As a Back
>> Country Horseman trail maintenance volunteer,
>>  I have personally observed this. Of course, we repair the trail by
>> filling in and putting in water bars. There are places on the PCT where
>> illegal wheeled vehicles have caused very serious damage.
>>      3)   Mountain bikers pose a very serious threat to equestrians.
>> Riders and horses have been injured and killed when a mountain biker
>> suddenly comes flying (for the thrill) down a winding and narrow
>>  trail causing a horse to spook. If there are also steep drop-offs, there
>> might be a
> disaster. I will briefly describe my own "close call" experience
>> during my PCT ride. It happened about 50 miles north of
>> Agua Dulce.  It was on a trail as I described above. I was riding down
>> hill when a MB came up at high speed behind us. Primo, my horse, spooked
>> forward. Fortunately, he had room ahead on the trail to
>> go. The mountain biker, to avoid running into us, swerved and tumbled into
>> the rocks and brush below the the trail. He was badly scratched and also
>> bruised. I think his bike was also damaged.
>> I watched as he took his time getting up and looked over the damage. He
>> would live. He was lucky there wasn't a cliff there.
>>
>> I have been taking pictures of illegal bikers on the PCT.  About a year
>> ago I was helping BCH Ray Drasher clear some down trees that were blocking
>> the PCT south of Guffy Camp. On our way back,
>> going north,
> we came upon illegal mountain bikers going south towards
>> Cajon Pass. They expected us to yield to them. No way. We informed them
>> that they were on the PCT - and that bikes are not
>> allowed.  Of course, they claimed innocence - that they did not know that
>> they were on the PCT, or that bikes weren't allowed. I started taking
>> pictures as we spoke and told them that they must turn
>> back. They did. It turned out that we were only a short distance (about
>> 300') from where the PCT crosses a dirt road. The usual PCT post was there
>> and the bike symbol with the red slash through it
>> was obvious. There were four bikers. They certainly had to have seen it.
>>
>> MendoRider-Hiker
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "gary_schenk at verizon.net" <gary_schenk at verizon.net>
>> To: diane at santabarbarahikes.com; pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2013 8:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] C-A-M-P-F-I-R-E-S
>>
>>
>> Diane,
>> Right on.
>>
>> Notice that many of the folks speaking out about campfires are from
>> Southern California. It gets depressing watching the burned out areas
>> increase year after year. Most thrus are never going to come back, others
>> use the PCT for getting to other places, not as an end in itself.
>>
>> I try to break up every illegal ring that I come across. It's hard to get
>> all huffy about mountain bikes and dirt bikes on the
> trail when parts of
>> the hiking community itself is a bigger problem.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>> On 05/12/13, Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes wrote:
>>
>> I suppose nobody would gather at the 3rd gate were it not for the
>> water cache. I suppose that they figure if the fire needs putting out
>> there's enough water there to do it. However, if they aren't using
>> the cache water to put the fire out then they aren't putting it out.
>> I think that all these water caches should go. They make people too
>> disconnected from their environment. You can hike from Rodriguez
>> Spring (and there's a real spring further down the road, you don't
>> need the tank) to Barrel Spring without a cache. It's only one night
>> between the two. I've gone two nights many times in So Cal carrying
>> all the water I need.
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