[pct-l] Wood stove on PCT

Mon Mar 25 09:24:49 CDT 2013

I'm not trying to beg the question, but if you state that stoves with shut
off valves are legal throughout the entire PCT, then why is it ok to use an
alcohol stove? Those do not have a shut-off valve, but that stove has
become synonymous. I find it odd that because the general consensus among
hikers is that its ok to break the rules and use an alcohol stove but its
not ok to break the rules and use a wood stove. How do you figure?

I can understand that using the already scarce plant material from those
alpine regions  can cause a large impact on the region, and will be
altering my  cooking to take that into account.  During the sierrra I'll
likely carry a alcohol stove. THe fact still remains that technically I'll
be breaking the law.

Regardless of whether I disagree with some of the opinions, I really
appreciate your thoughts and information Sir-mix-alot,

and everyone else who contributed!

- Marty

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>wrote:

> I rode through the Sierra between Horseshoe Meadows and Tuolumne Meadows
> last summer.  The signs are pretty obvious. My first resupply was at Cedar
> Grove, the Second was at Vermillion Valley  Resort. Whenever a trail,
> including the JMT/PCT, reached the 10,000 foot level there would be signs
> saying that  "wood fires are not permitted beyond that point."
>
>
> Stoves that have shut-off valves are legal throughout the entire length of
> the PCT.
>
>
> There are very few "designated camp grounds" along or very close to the
> PCT, where campfires are permitted. All of these, as far as I can recall,
> are accessible by motor vehicles and include fire rings and picnic tables.
> I don't know of any restrictions as to what kinds of stoves are allowed at
> these locations..  One of these is Blue Ridge Camp in the Angeles National
> Forest. Another is Hidden Horse Camp just south of Etna Summit. Also Camp
> Ah-De-Na south of Castle Craigs, and of course, if you camp in the
> campgound of Castle Crags State Park. or at Berney Falls State Park. There
> is also one just south of Hart's Pass in Washington. I'm sure that there
> are many others that I can't recall. All are accessible by motor vehicle
> and have fire rings.
>
> The important thing is that we be extremely careful with fire.
>
> MendoRider-Hiker
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Sir Mixalot <atetuna at gmail.com>
> To: Martin M. Clark <martin.m.clark at gmail.com>
> Cc: "Pct-L at backcountry.net" <Pct-L at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 3:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Wood stove on PCT
>
> It's considered damaging because it's using organic material that is
> already very scarce.  This ban is not about safety, it's about preserving
> some of the material that plants, animals, bugs and microbes need.
>
> There are lots of places where you can use a wood stove, and in those areas
> it is easy to find organic material.  In those approved areas, you would
> almost certainly find all the twigs you need for your stove in the area you
> clear to be in compliance with your campfire permit.
>
> I think it's only the Sierra National Forest that has this tailored burn
> ban, although it may include the Inyo NF too since they're managed
> together.
>
> MendoRider mentioned seeing signs at the 10k mark.  The ones I saw were in
> areas still under the new fire restrictions.
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 2:18 AM, Martin M. Clark
> <martin.m.clark at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > How is a stove Like the bush buddy ultra considered damaging to these
> > environments? It's safer than alcohol stoves in my opinion. I don't think
> > it shops be put in the same category as a camp fire when in reality its
> > closer to a stove. If an alcohol stove doest follow those guidelines why
> > should the bushbuddy?
> >
> > Martin M. Clark
> > 804-334-2009
> >
> > On Mar 25, 2013, at 2:26 AM, Sir Mixalot <atetuna at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I haven't found the map that shows restricted areas, but here's some
> > official info.
> >
> > <
> http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sierra/passes-permits/?cid=stelprdb5212436>
> > http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sierra/passes-permits/?cid=stelprdb5212436
> >
> > In some heavily used areas, fires are not permitted. In fragile
> > environments, such as alpine meadows, fires leave scars for many years
> and
> > deplete wood supplies. Campfires are discouraged anywhere above 9,000
> feet.
> >
> > <http://prdp2fs.ess.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5213952.pdf>
> > http://prdp2fs.ess.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5213952.pdf
> > Campfires are not permitted above 10,000 ft. north of Mt. Shinn and above
> > 10,400 ft. south of Mt. Shinn. In addition, site specific closures
> include
> > the Purple Lake drainage, North and South Forks of Big Pine Creek, Tyee
> > Lakes, Sabrina Basin,  Kearsarge Pass, Golden Trout Lakes and Robinson
> > Lakes drainage, Main Mt. Whitney Trail, North Fork of Lone Pine Creek,
> > Meysan Lakes drainage, and within 1,000 feet of Anvil Camp on the
> Shepherd
> > Pass trail.
> >
> > There are other areas.  For one, there's Duck Creek.  Lots of people camp
> > there, and over time have used up most of the organic material.  It's
> hard
> > to find even small twigs to get a cookfire going, much less a campfire.
> >  That's why fires are banned in this area.
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Sir Mixalot < <atetuna at gmail.com>
> > atetuna at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The rules don't allow wood burning in some areas during some parts of
> the
> >> year.  In parts of the Sierras, wood burning is banned in high use areas
> >> because all the organic material was getting picked clean.  The old
> rules
> >> previously forbid wood burning above 10k feet, but a biologist helped
> them
> >> refine the rules.  The ranger I was around seemed like he'd enforce it
> on a
> >> case by case basis.  If dead organic material was hard to find, then a
> fire
> >> should not be used in that area.  If you were in an area with plenty of
> >> litter and old downed trees, then you'd be following the intent of the
> >> rules, so you should be okay.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Martin M. Clark <<
> martin.m.clark at gmail.com>
> >> martin.m.clark at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Anyone have any experience with a woodstove on the PCT. I have a
> >>> bushbuddy ultra I was thinking of using with a companion alcohol
> burner.
> >>> Anyone have much thought on this? I know lint and samurai Joe used one.
> >>> Just wondering what the issues are? Thanks in advance!
> >>>
> >>> Martin M. Clark
> >>> 804-334-2009
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-- 

Martin M. Clark