[pct-l] Arch pain

Fri Mar 22 17:09:05 CDT 2013

Never had a problem with PF. Normal shoes give me neuromas from my long toes compressing on every step. I tried a few things with limited success. Eventually I found vibram five fingers. This solved the neuroma problem, and had other unexpected benefits for my knees.

For the past two years I've pretty much worn only vibram five fingers. When I have to wear shoes I wear new balance minimus. My feet are pretty happy. I play basketball, run, hike, and even work, in VFF's. My feet get sore, but they don't hurt, or feel injured, like they used to. The greatest improvement has been with running. The real test will be hiking a few thousand miles with a 15lb base-weight pack. 

The one things I cannot do is cycle with VFF's. That hurts. The AT would likely be a lot less fun, than the PCT, with VFF's. 

________________________________
 From: Martin Clark <martin.m.clark at gmail.com>
To: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> 
Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>; Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> 
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Arch pain

Not a doctor and not sure what caused your pain, but if I had a guess I'd
say your pain came from wearing superfeet. I  am a big proponent of natural
foot wear. I have EXTREMELY high arches and have always found my feet to
become fatigued unless I had a very neutral flat shoe with low drop which
allowed my gait to account for itself. THe most heel to toe drop I'd allow
for a shoe is 6mm.

my .02

-marty

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Casey, and thanks Brick, that was a great thread with a lot of
> different perspectives shared.  It's such an individual experience and
> there seem to be a number of ways people get over different foot problems.
>  I began the transition from my old heavy Vasque, vibrum soled boots to
> lighter shoes in the early nineties when I got my first copy of Jargine's
> PCT Handbook and I read that folks were hiking the High Sierra in tennis
> shoes.  Scared me to death to give up those old boots, but I transitioned
> from boots to lighter boots, then to trail shoes and finally trail runners
> and I'll append my story from that thread in case you haven't read it, but
> that whole month had a good bit on your issue.
>
> I broke in and learned to hike in the lighter stuff over a long period.  I
> remember at first that my soles were sore, just from the constant sensation
> of walking on rocks and being able to feel them.  Now, I love the feeling
> of the rocks under my worn, thin shoe soles.
>
> You are attempting a pretty dramatic change with not much time to build and
> strengthen the new foot muscles you may need to be able to walk, day after
> day, 20 to 30 miles and not end up with an overuse injury.  That is not to
> say it can't be done, but my recommendation would be to start really slowly
> and be very cognizant of how your feet feel all day, every day for the
> first month.  I'd start with 10 mile days for the first week or two and
> then begin to edge up as you become confident that you're not aggravating
> something.  With a slow start you can still finish the trail, but a serious
> overuse problem can knock you out of the box for the whole season.
>
> I love the light shoes I hike and run in now, and have for years, but I
> didn't really get it right on the PCT which was my first long hike, and I
> ended the trail with terrible PF.  This year on the CDT however, I finished
> the trail and felt so good, I could have kept waling the Divide up to Banff
> and Jaspar.  For me the solution was less, not more, but everyone is so
> different where their feet are concerned.
>
> I'll copy in my foot story, so if you've already read it, or skipped over
> it before, just skip over it again, but it'll give you one person's story.
>
> Good Luck out there and have a wonderful summer!
>
> Shroomer
>
> Hey Diane,
>
> I've actually been up skiing for a bit and had time for a few short replies
> but didn't have the time to tell that whole story again.  So, many of you
> may have heard my shoe saga before and can just tune out if you want to.
>  But let me start with the caveat that everyone is different and what works
> for one, may be deadly for someone else.
>
> I first had Plantar Fasciitis 20 years ago, an injury from walking on
> pavement with dress shoes.  I'd do anything to get some exercise at noon.
>  It was healed with orthotic inserts and years of walking on trails only.
>  Pavement just killed me.
>
> More recently I'd been training on our local mountain for several years
> pain free and while prepping for the PCT, I thought I'd better upgrade my
> inserts as everyone was raving about Superfeet.  So I got fitted and
> slipped them in my old shoes and within a week, could barely walk.  This
> was a month before setting out and I had a case of PF that did not go away
> even when I took out the Superfeet.  I didn't know if I'd be able to make
> it.  I added some foam cushion and set off on trail with a big bottle of
> vitamin I.
>
> Early on in the desert section I met and began hiking with Mango who was
> also suffering from PF.  He taught me to sit upright in my sack in the
> morning and use a bandana to pull my toes toward me to stretch out the
> plantar before getting up and putting any weight on my heals.  I also
> learned to stretch and strengthen the plantar by standing on the edge of a
> stair tread and lowering my heal.  Walking hurt, but both of us just kept
> hiking and living on Ibuprofen.
>
> When I got to the High Sierra, the walking on soft snow, constant wet
> shoes, and icy stream and river dips seemed to be the ticket and the PF
> went away on it's own.  It was like I was walking with constant ice packs
> on the inflamed part and it really helped.  Northern California and Oregon
> were a breeze, even knocking out consistent 28 to 35 mile days.  But the
> trail in Oregon is easy and when I hit WA it got tougher again.  The young
> folks I was walking with didn't slow down at first, and the stress of 28 to
> 32 and 33 mile days finally took its tole and the PF came back gangbusters.
>  When I crossed into Canada I was living on massive doses of Ibuprofen,
> probably doing real stomach damage, but it is all that got me to Manning
> Park, and I wasn't going to quit so close to the finish.
>
> I took a break after the thru hike and vacationed, but the PF didn't lessen
> a bit.  Two months after finishing, it was mushroom season around here and
> my chanterelle hikes were killing me, as was the Ibuprofen.  Then I read
> "Born to Run," by Christopher McDougall, a wonderful sports/medical
> anthropology/personal overuse injury recovery story.  It's a can't put it
> down, fast paced read.  When my 20 year old daughter picked it up, she said
> it was the first book since Harry Potter, she just couldn't put down.  This
> is the book that has begun to challenge what Nike and others have done to
> our feet over the past 40 years and the reason all big shoe manufacturers
> now have "barefoot shoe" lines.  The gist is that we've padded and
> supported our feet so much that we now have a culture of people with weak
> feet, a society prone to PF and a host of other injuries that were nearly
> nonexistent before Nike introduced the arch support in 1970.  We are
> designed to have an arch that supports our whole weight over thousands of
> miles and many years, expanding and contracting and supporting our upright
> posture much as a Gothic Arch supports a cathedral, no extra support
> needed.
>
> Two months after finishing the PCT, and with no relief in sight, I tried
> what McDougall had done, and pulled out my arch support.  Instant relief!
>  I went a few days and pulled out my extra foam pad, even more relief.
>  Eventually I pulled out the insole itself and have been hiking on the flat
> inside of my Montrail Sabinos now for over two years, pain free, except for
> a short recurrence on the CDT this summer when I overdid it on Mount
> Taylor, simply pushing too far, too fast, early on in the hike.  In that
> case the PF was very mild and was gone by the time we entered the Weminuche
> Wilderness in Colorado.
>
> When I crossed into Canada at Lake Waterton this fall, my feet felt so
> good, as did the rest of me, that had it not been for missing my wife, I'd
> have just kept walking the Divide across Canada.
>
> "Born to Run" also introduced me to a completely different way of walking
> and running, a different gait, that keeps my knees, ankles and hips from
> hurting and suffering overuse injuries, and one that will be taught by Big
> Foot at the ADZPCTKO this year.  Big Foot is another person who has
> overcome Ibuprofen addiction by a change in how he walks and runs and what
> shoes he wears.  I've had serious knee injuries 20 years ago, and now I can
> run trail for hours, downhill with a pack with no pain, day after day.
>  I've learned to "shuffle" on trail with no heal strike and therefore no
> shock to the ankle, knee or hip, a gait practiced by the Tarahumara in the
> Copper Canyons of Mexico and the Bushmen of South Africa.  Knees slightly
> bent, body straight above my feet and not leaning forward appreciably, my
> feet land on the fat pad on the side of each foot and roll to the balls and
> toes before pushing off.  My heal barely touches.  I kick up a lot of dust,
> but I run and walk pain free.
>
> Anyone who walks or runs long distances should read "Born to Run," as it
> goes way beyond just the issue of foot pain, and delves into the very
> nature of humans as a species, and the primal need many of us have for, and
> the joy to be found in, long distance running.  I extrapolate from that,
> the great peace we have in long distance walking.  Our joy on trail is
> genetic.  We're built for the long haul like no other animal on earth, and
> we love it.  The bone marrow, human rightness I felt when I hiked the PCT,
> is not an anomaly, it is what we are built for.  We did it for 4 million
> years barefoot, carried forward by the inherent strength in the feet nature
> gave us, without padding and arch supports.
>
> Now, all that being said, if you are pain free with your Superfeet, or any
> other orthotic insert or pad, by all means keep using it.  Everyone's feet
> are different.  Boots, trail runners, or the incredibly light "slippers"
> Marcia Powers uses for thousands and thousands of miles, are all just fine
> if they get you from camp to camp with feet that don't blister or hurt.  I
> was in great pain, and seem to have found a way to walk a few thousand
> miles pain free, so I keep walking unpadded and unsupported.
>
> As I hiked the CDT this summer, I came to like my shoes better the thinner
> the sole got.  I lost traction in the rubber that was worn away, but my
> feet worked more like hands, feeling the trail, the rocks and roots, my
> toes grasping and flexing inside my shoe.  Feeling the ground used to make
> my feet sore, now it just feels good and maybe someday I'll have the guts
> to try Marcia's "slippers."
>
> Shroomer
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes
> <diane at santabarbarahikes.com
> <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>> wrote:
>
> >* Shroomer must be out hiking or something. I believe he suffered a
> lot*>* of Plantar Fasciitis. He discovered that removing all the insoles*>*
> from his Montrail Sabinos was the answer. Nothing inside his shoes*>* but
> his socks and feet. Minimalist like the whole barefoot movement*>* but with
> all the benefits of decent trail shoes. He has hiked pain*>* free ever
> since, including a thru-hike of the CDT last summer.*>**>* On Mar 7, 2013,
> at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net <
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> wrote:*>**>* >
> Plantar Fasciitis and KT Tape *
>
> >
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 6:56 AM, Casey Mangnall <mangler06 at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm wondering if anyone has had problems with their arches due to
> > wearing trail runners and carrying a pack.
> >
> > See the recent Plantar Fasciitis thread (Plantar Fasciitis is the
> > medical term for the most common type of arch pain)
> >
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/2013-March/thread.html#66055
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-- 

Martin M. Clark
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