[pct-l] Thru numbers

[Timothy Nye]

There is, however, a central truth to Ann Marie's observation that when angels are present and providing magic, probably especially at the Walker Pass Ruck, which is one of the major magic stops on the trail, that bad behavior is unlikely to be exhibited.  I think her point is that it is events such as this that condition hikers to expect and potentially rely on caches and magic. One can disagree on the nature and extent to which this may occur, and all hikers are different, but I would posit that the "weaker" hikers and the partiers are more susceptible.

It's a Fox Butterfield frame of reference to view hikers reactions at a major magic scene to be representative of the obverse; that is, hiker's reactions where magic is expected, but not present.

 To be clear, I think Walker Pass is a great event, and I especially appreciated catching a ride down to Lake Isabella when I went through there. Yet, the viewpoint from the angel perspective is different from the active hiker perspective, something I mean no disrespect when posting in response to a triple crowner and multiple PCT thru. 

The trail is changing quickly as measured by those hiking it. It's difficult to justify anyone's viewpoint being any more or less valid than anyone else's, since being judgmental about the "proper" way to hike the trail seems to degenerate into a microcosm of political debates about dependency and self reliance. The problem on the trail is when one hiking style effects another's hike, hence this discussion. At the end of the day, the trail belongs to all. The experience each year will be governed by the cumulative impact of all rhe individual choices made by those on and around it. 

I come down on the self reliance side of things, but to me the best answer lies in the middle. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the aggregate and whether the trail reaches some level of carrying capacity, or whether the numbers are destined to continually increase.

Gourmet


Sent from my iPad

On Jun 10, 2013, at 7:19 AM, Jackie McDonnell <yogihikes at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ann Marie -
> 
> You are delusional.  You state:  "This year I limited my 3rd gate water
> cache assistance to only two trips (there are others who lead the efforts),
> but I paid for the $60 of water each time. Add my gas and the 5-6 hours
> daily roundtrip commute thru heavily-congested San Diego traffic and I
> quickly became more disenchanted with the "magic" during this, my second
> year of helping."
> 
> It sounds like you are irritated with yourself for the time and money you
> spent to HELP hikers.  If it pisses you off so much, stop doing it.  Stop
> banging your head against the wall.
> 
> You state:  "Don't misunderstand me, I think water caches in some areas are
> great. I'm positive they are all much appreciated. But I also think the
> extras (fruit, snacks, beer/wine, soda/energy drinks) are too much or
> should be reserved for the thrus getting to Oregon or Washington on their
> own efforts."
> 
> My response:  REALLY?  First of all, you're not putting those treats out,
> so it doesn't affect your time/money problems.  Second, those of us who
> provide trail magic provide it for ALL hikers.  We do not discriminate
> against section-hikers or chunk-hikers.
> 
> You state:  "Leave water only and leave a big sign saying 1 to 2 liters max
> and request  a $1 or $2 donation to defray the cost. It is no longer
> uacceptable
> to ask for that small donation - my only concern is that the money may be
> stolen."
> 
> My respose:  Many hikers leave donations at our Trail Magic.  Many don't.
> We don't flat out ask for donations, but yes, we do have a donation jar.
> We treat everyone the same, whether they leave a donation or not.  The
> donations help tremendously, but you are incorrect stating "it is no longer
> unacceptable to ask for a donation".  When you ask for a "donation", it is
> no longer a donation -- now you are charging for a product/service.  You
> are no longer providing magic.  And YES, a donation jar out on the trail
> would get stolen, but not necessarily by thru-hikers.  There are LOTS of
> people on ATVs on the trail in SoCal.  One to two liters max??  Again, you
> are delusional.  You are putting water on the trail for hikers to use.  It
> is at an established cache, so YES hikers count on that water to be there.
> You put the water for hikers to use, so don't get pissed off that they are
> using. it.
> 
> Yogi
> www.pcthandbook.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Ann Marie <dbanmrkr at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> Believe me some of the trail angels are rethinking the amount of their
>> support.  It is disturbing to read that some hikers are bypassing water
>> sources to drink only the bottled water supplied. This year I limited my
>> 3rd gate water cache assistance to only two trips (there are others who
>> lead the efforts), but I paid for the $60 of water each time. Add my gas
>> and the 5-6 hours daily roundtrip commute thru heavily-congested San Diego
>> traffic and I quickly became more disenchanted with the "magic" during
>> this, my second year of helping. Don't misunderstand me, I think water
>> caches in some areas are great. I'm positive they are all much appreciated.
>> But I also think the extras (fruit, snacks, beer/wine, soda/energy drinks)
>> are too much or should be reserved for the thrus getting to Oregon or
>> Washington on their own efforts. Leave water only and leave a big sign
>> saying 1 to 2 liters max and request  a $1 or $2 donation to defray the
>> cost. It is no longer
>> UNacceptable to ask for that small donation - my only concern is that the
>> money may be stolen. Heck, we had two hikers at 3rd gate give the trip
>> leader $33 right there at the cache when we dropped off water. They wanted
>> to pay for themselves and those hikers behind them. We expressed a ton of
>> surprise and gratitude to them.
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