[pct-l] REI changes return policy to return before 1 year

Thu Jun 6 20:29:59 CDT 2013

"... but don't see other places doing this to customers."  You know of 
another store (other than LL Bean) that takes returns forever no questions 
asked?

-----Original Message----- 
From: lilacs007 at yahoo.com
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 9:25 PM
To: JPL ; Brick Robbins
Cc: Pacific crest trail PCT Listserve
Subject: Re: [pct-l] REI changes return policy to return before 1 year

What I understand his outlook to mean is that corporations and stores in 
general would take advantage of loopholes.

This was a loophole customers took advantage of... But people see that as 
bad, but don't see other places doing this to customers. He was not 
specifically targeting REI.

Now what the real circumstances of their policy change is? Who knows. It's 
possible sales have been declining and they are in general having issues and 
this policy adds to the loss. Or really whatever...

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "JPL" <jplynch at crosslink.net>
Sender: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2013 20:23:56
To: Brick Robbins<brick at brickrobbins.com>
Cc: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] REI changes return policy to return before 1 year

Customers by definition aren't capitalists.  And you're setting up an apples
and oranges strawman.  REI is not abusing the customer, simply adjusting its
business practices in what is actually a pretty minor way.  It would be
abuse if REI adopted practices that were subterfuge  and resulted in harm to
the customer.   Like if REI sold shoddy goods telling customers they were
high quality and then not taking them back when they fell apart in a couple
of days.  Or playing fast and loose with customers credit card, or their
membership accounts.  What REI has done with their return policy in no way
rises to the level of abuse.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Brick Robbins
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 8:15 PM
To: JPL
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] REI changes return policy to return before 1 year

Once again, the point is missed.....

The "capitalism charge"  was not being leveled at REI, it was leveled
at the customer, and by that measure, there was NO ABUSE. There was
simply one party in the transaction taking full advantage of contract
that was offered.

That is capitalism.

My soapbox is that one segment of the population sees this as OK when
a business does this to the customer or the taxpayer, but sees it as
ABUSE when the individual does it to the business.

I agree with Herb on this.

On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 2:27 PM, JPL <jplynch at crosslink.net> wrote:
> I don't see it quite that way.  My guess is that the abuse just got beyond
> what they could tolerate and stay in business.  But that's just a guess
> since they don't release (that I know of) their data on this matter.
> Perhaps when REI got started they felt that they could do this and make it
> work, especially as a co-op.  But things change, times change.  It'll be
> interesting to see if other stores (thinking particularly of LL Bean) will
> toss their life-time return policy too.  I don't fault REI at all on this.
> As far as the capitalism "charge" goes, well yes what do you expect.  A
> company trying to stay in business and protect the bottom line.  I'm glad
> they're doing what they have to do to remain a viable company.  I'll
> gladly
> keep shopping there.
>
>
> -----Original Message---
> From: Herb Stroh
> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 4:08 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] REI changes return policy to return before 1 year
>
> I have a little bit different take on this.
>
>
>
> REI was certainly aware that their generous return policy would be abused
> by
> some. They made a business decision that the policy would enhance their
> bottom line. They could-and did-advertise the return policy as a means to
> attract sales and members. I have purchased items at REI when I could have
> bought them cheaper elsewhere because I knew I could always return it, and
> I
> am sure many others have done the same. The wide open return policy has
> certainly generated tremendous good will-note the many posts so far
> supportive of the company. That is not to say it is ok to be a free-rider
> who returns fully used-up gear for refund. But REI is a big boy, and kept
> this policy in place for a long time as a part of its' business model.
> This
> suggests that the policy was perceived as creating sufficient additional
> sales/memberships that the losses due to abuse was a reasonable cost of
> implementing this marketing strategy. Because that business model no
> longer
> works they have now made a cha
> nge.
>
>
>
> I don't see issues of corporate greed, nor do I perceive REI as a victim.
> They came up with an innovative means of distinguishing their brand and
> building good will that was apparently successful for a long time. And
> while
> I do not think it is appropriate to return used gear, it was a term of the
> contract which REI offered to its members and they had the right to
> exercise
> it.
>
>
>
> Herb
>
>
>
>
>
> I think many people are missing what Brick is saying.  He is pointing out
>
> the hypocrisy of the American corporate/business culture compared to
>
> individual behavior.  Corporations are lauded and investors are thrilled
>
> when they squeeze every last cent out of contracts, pay the absolute
>
> minimum amount of taxes (even by off-shoring money and technically not
>
> breaking any laws), nickel and dime employees, and get communities to give
>
> them tax "incentives", whereas individuals (such as those returning REI
>
> merchandise) are somehow supposed to answer to a higher moral authority,
>
> try and perceive the intent of a return policy, and consider the welfare
> of
>
> the employees that sell to them.
>
>
>
> Aren't corporations were people too?  Shouldn't they be answering to that
>
> higher moral authority too?
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> Herb Stroh  |  Partner
> Sinsheimer Juhnke McIvor & Stroh, LLP
> 1010 Peach Street  |  PO Box 31  |  San Luis Obispo, CA  93406
> P 805 541 2800  |  F 805 541 2802
> HStroh at sjmslaw.com<mailto:HStroh at sjmslaw.com>   |
> www.sjmslaw.com<http://www.sjmslaw.com/>
>
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