[pct-l] Fw: Food in tents

Fri Feb 8 14:32:57 CST 2013

Fireweed,

Please read over your original post - the one that I responded to. Nowhere did you mention "OPSACKS". You only mention Ursacks. Had you " - - - suggested using the Ursack/Opsack in areas - - - ", I wouldn't have responded at all. Ursacks don't address the food smell problem. If you put an OPSak inside you will have a perfect combination - but you had forgotten to mention that. You only suggessted using either an Ursack or hanging your food.

Respectfully,

MendoRider

________________________________
 From: Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net>
To: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2013 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Food in tents

Mendorider:

Yes--I believe that using bear canisters are required in the area you mentioned now, isn't it? That's what I said--don't hang your food in an area where bear canisters are required. I also suggested using the Ursack/Opsack in areas where canisters aren't required. 

I, too, have also seen mother bears send their cubs up after food that is hung with the counterbalance method on flimsy branches in the Sierra before bear canisters were required And before the counterbalance method, bears knew that ropes attached to the trees could be messed with to bring down the food bag. My job in 1985 was backpacking to lightning fires in Yosemite and camping out, taking measurements of fire behavior, so we saw our share of bears. I also worked there on lightning fires in 1998-2000 and led
 beginning backpack trips on the Muir Trail from Tuolumne Meadows--bear central. Thank God the NPS made canisters a requirement by then.

The reason I tell people to consider hanging their food outside of known repetitive problem areas is I have not seen that level of understanding in any bear population except those in the high problem areas in the Sierra--not in the north Cascades, the Colorado Rockies, the Kenai and the Interior of Alaska, the Trinities in Northern California, northern Arizona. I have no experience hiking on the AT--so can't speak to that or other places I have not been.

The URsack/Opsack is a viable alternative--perhaps using one of those AND hanging it would be the best solution. I have been thinking of buying one, although I rarely hang my food outside of required bear canister areas.

--Fireweed

>----- Original Message -----
>
>From:
"Edward Anderson" <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
>
>To:"Mary Kwart" <mkwart at gci.net>, "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>
>Cc:
>
>Sent:Thu, 07 Feb 2013 17:37:11 -0800 (PST)
>
>Subject:Re: [pct-l] Food in tents
>
>
>
>Hello Mary,
> 
>While I greatly respect you and all your experience, I have to disagree with you on your advice to hang a food bag. I used to do that in bear country in the Sierra The incident that I will describe happened about 30 years ago, when bears in the Sierra were a real problem. Having been trained by Rangers that human food is good (Park Rangers used to feed the bears garbage so the park visitors could watch!), they followed hikers to places close to timberline, knowing that there would be food.
> 
>Here is the incident that I want to describe:  I had taken my son and three of his friends on a fishing-backpack trip starting at Roads End in Sequoia. We hiked up Bubbs Creek to the JMT and then went south over Forester Pass to fish the lakes in the upper Kern. Since bears were known to be a problem, I decided to make our first camp high along Bubbs Creek at a place where others had not camped - a place where bears, I thought, were less likely to be I did a good job of hanging our food bag at least 15 feet above the ground and had the rope over a small horizontal branch about seven or eight feet from the tree trunk. The last thing I saw before falling asleep was the food bag silhouetted against the star-studded night sky. Something awakened me during the night When I looked up the food bag was gone. As I scrambled to exit my bag the bears left. They had gotten about a third of our food - and that's a lot when you have three hungry boys along. We
 were to eat lots of trout. Fortunately the fishing was great.
> 
>When we returned to Roads End I reported it to the Ranger. He told me that there was a mother bear and her cub(s) who were working Bubbs Creek. She had apparently taught the cub to climb the trees and then go out on the limbs to release the food bags. Bears are REALLY smart. 
> 
>I no longer hang food. In riding the PCT through N. California, Oregon, and Washington I saw a lot of hanging bags. 
>I suppose that must work for most hikers. I just used OPSaks and my bear charms. To be extra cautious, I also camouflaged the OPSaks - since they are transparent, while I realize that bears have poor eyesight, if they just happen to SEE the food inside, they would tear open the sack.
>
>I brought two Garcias during my ride through the Sierra between Horseshoe Meadows and Sierra City. In them I stored my food and the processed horse feed. I carried them in knapsacks that took the place of the jumbo pommel bags that I used on all the rest of the PCT. And they held a greater volume of food.
>
>Regarding Ursacks - realize that they do not contain food smells. They are not odor-proof. While bears can't get the food inside, they might be attracted to the smell and your camp location. The same is true of bear canisters. That's why you are required to place them so far away from where you sleep. I have tested various food packaging, double Ziploks, and OPSaks in my rodent-infested barn in Agua Dulce. They have never gotten into an OPSak. They walk all around them and even over them. If they were as intelligent as bears they would get in.
>
>MendoRider-Hiker 
>
>________________________________
> From: Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net>
>To: pct-l at backcountry.net; douglastow at gmail.com 
>Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 12:48 PM
>Subject: [pct-l] Food in tents
> 
>This is a controversial  topic so what I tell the people in a
>backpacking strategies for success class is:
>
>1. Always carry food in a bear canister in the places it is
>required--there is a good reason. I have worked for the Park Service
>at Yosemite and regale people with stories of how smart and
>resourceful the bears are in the Sierra. By the way, bears there know
>people use canisters and have learned diversion tactics to get to food
>before it is in the canister at night--like when you are preparing
>dinner. I have experienced bears batting around my bear canister at
>night, but that has only been in popular campsites when camping with a
>group. Using bear canisters in these areas saves bears lives.
>
>2. When in doubt, in places other than where you have to carry a bear
>canister by law, carry a lightweight rope to hang your food and hang
>it as often as you feel you must--That may be every night. Be aware
 of
>indications of bear activity--bear scat, bear paw prints and talk to
>others on the trail to get information and let that and common sense
>guide you. When camping near a popular area like by a lake a short
>distance from a trailhead, take extra precautions or camp miles away
>from these areas. If you are caching food for any length of time or
>leaving your camp for a day hike, it also makes sense to hang your
>food or use an Ursack.
>
>3. The longer you hike in the areas where bear canisters are not
>required by law, the more your decision to protect your food from
>critters will be informed by your experience, hence the need to hang
>your food will diminish because you have learned to be more aware of
>bear indicators. That is why people with a lot of hiking experience
>keep their food in their tents at night with no problem
 for
>years.Until you reach that level of knowledge, by all means hang your
>food, or use an Ursack.
>
>It is hard to convince new hikers that in 99% of all long distance
>hiking areas, the animals have better things to do than target you and
>the small amount of food you carry. Once again, I impress on people
>the need to carry bear canisters where required by law and to hang
>their food if they have the least bit of anxiety. or will be leaving
>their food unattended. 
>
>--Fireweed
>
>
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