[pct-l] OP Bags

[Devon Taig]

A couple things come to mind (1) If the illicit substance was, say,
marijuana, that typically has a much stronger odor than say fig newtons (or
something else that you might put in an OPSack) on the trail probably
would.  So something really, really smelly might possibly overwhelm an
OPSack.  That doesn't mean that they don't work on food in my opinion.  (2)
Trained dogs going (probably) from locker to locker looking for illicit
substances is really a totally different test than a bear that is, say, 50
yards away from your camp in the middle of the night.
Maybe a good analogy is if a condom breaks when you try to put it on Barry
Bond's bicep, it doesn't necessarily mean that they wont work for
your...bicep.   No, on second thought that's a horrible analogy.

River


On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Hello John,
>
> Based on my own tests and my actual field experience, Beldon Town is an
> excellent example, I do not think that the "test" at the locker room is
> valid. If they are properly sealed, and if care is taken, that food smells
> are not on the outside of an OPSak, they do, reliably, contain food smells.
> I used them for over six months during my entire PCT ride and never lost
> any food stored in OPSaks. My rodent tests in my barn had already convinced
> me showed that the OPSaks worked - while the double ZipLock bags were
> broken into - by the end of a week.
>
>
> I have never tested for dogs and tested only food, not for "illicit
> substances" contained inside bags. Rodents had free access, as all food was
> placed along a wall that was a rodent run. They had to walk right over, or
> go around. That is why I think that rodents go by smell and not by sight.
> The Beldon Town experience also proved that. I lost 30 pounds of processed
> horse feed that was sealed inside individual Food Saver bags (three pounds
> per bag) but, my food, in an OPSak laying among them, and covered by a foot
> of leaves, was untouched. The Ranger said that it was rodents. Had it been
> a bear, it would have seen my food through the transparent bag and eaten
> it. That is why, on the PCT, when in bear country, I always camouflage the
> bags. After Beldon I put all food in OPSaks. In the Sierra N.P's I used
> bear cans as required.
>
> SO, HERE IS MY THEORY of how the locker room tests went wrong.  First,
> recognize that those dogs used in the test were very smart - they are
> exceptional - or they wouldn't be used for the job that they usually do -
> that they are trained to do. I am also convinced that dogs have the ability
> to read minds (of humans and other dogs) - my dog sure seems to. (That is
> also true of my horses).  If they smelled an "illicit substance", as was
> used in the test, in ANY lockers (Of course they could smell those
> substances stored in the ZipLocks), then they would immediately investigate
> the other lockers. They would easily find what was in the OPSaks because,
> once they knew that lockers contained what they were looking for, they
> would investigate all lockers and could then SEE inside. The other
> possibility would be that those who handled the sacks got some of the
> smells outside the sacks. In my use of the OPSaks I was very, very, careful
> to seal thoroughly and that
>  I never got food smells on the outside surfaces. (I did screw up once at
> my food cache at the border between California and Oregon. Rodents had
> nibbled along some of the edge of an OPSak. Luckily, it was outside the
> seal, so they got no food and the bag was reusable.) I usually used fresh
> bio-degradable toilet paper between thumb and forefingers of both hands to
> seal.. The TP was still good for its usual purpose. There were also times
> when I used lichen or leaves - which I also sometimes used as a substitute
> for TP.
>
>
> I would never consider sleeping with my food in bear country. I'm not a
> gambler. Not all bears are the same. If a bold and hungry bear that has
> become habituated to humans and their food happens to wander up from a
> vehicle accessible campground near your camp and smells your food, he might
> just go for it. People have been maimed and killed in those circumstances.
> Why take a chance? During my PCT ride, I encountered just one bear like
> that - It was at Joshua Tree Spring in Southern Cal.  A BCH friend had to
> shoot a very dangerous and bold bear at a vehicle accessible campground in
> the Marble Mountains - a place through which the PCT passes a few miles
> south of Seiad Valley. That bear had already become famous there as he had
> raided many camps - tents, cars, trailers, picnic tables.
>
>
> MendoRider-Hiker
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: John Coyle <jcoyle at sanjuan.edu>
> To: "'pct-l at backcountry.net'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:23 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] OP Bags
>
>
> I have a subscription to Backpacking Light and here are some details from
> their test of OP Bags.  The test was done by an emergency and critical care
> veterinarian at a university hospital.  The test was conducted in a large
> woman's locker room at the university, with the targets being put in
> certain lockers. Four trained police dogs were used. The dogs were trained
> to find illicit substances, so that was used for the test instead of food.
> The OP bags were tested against ordinary supermarket Ziplock bags, not
> freezer or heat seal bags I think. Of the 32 searches conducted the dogs
> failed to find the target only 4 times.  I got the impression that this is
> normal because sometimes the dogs get distracted for various reasons.
> Average search times to find the target were 86 seconds in the OP group and
> 84 seconds in the control (Ziplock) group, which is not that much of a
> difference. There are a lot of pictures of the dogs in the locker room in
> the
>  article. I am leaving out a lot
> of details, so if you want more information, you will just have to buy a
> subscription to Backpacking Light.  To me it the $25 yearly subscription is
> well worth it for a backpacker.
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