[pct-l] old svea

Tue Apr 2 08:38:54 CDT 2013

Gosh, Jim, yours was quite a rant.  So, you like/love the SVEA. That's great!  Sounds like a good stove. But, I consider some of the info, regarding canisters, that you posted to support your viewpoint to be misleading.  I used a Jetboil canister stove while riding the PCT during four seasons and lived on the trail for over six months.  Riding a horse, I didn't go into towns as most hikers do. Can't hitch with a horse. I resupplied myself.

I have never heard of a canister either blowing up or being refilled.  I suppose if you somehow found someone at a town gas station who also sold propane and tried, that could be a problem. I used Snow Peak canisters that I bought from REI. The 13oz size only costs $4.95 and lasts me, easily, six days, cooking two meals per day. I never had a problem. When low of fuel, I always drain off (valve on - no flame) whatever is left in the canister before discarding it in a trash can whenever I can find one ( sometimes I ask a TH motorist if they would be kind enough to take out my Ziplock trash bag for disposal)   I use a wind screen when necessary - it also improves the efficiency.  I really like that I can simmer with that system. I probably do more cooking than most hikers because I supplement my food with trout whenever I can.

HYOH - RYOR

MendoRider-Hiker

________________________________
 From: Jim Marco <jdm27 at cornell.edu>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] old svea

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Jim Marco <jdm27 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> Ya' know, these are mostly false rumors. I refuse to enter these discussions because they always fall back on someone doing something really stupid with a stove then exclaiming they should be banned and outlawed because they are so dangerous.
>
> Overfilling a stove? ALL stoves can be dangerous or not work if they are overfilled. Canisters, WG or alcohol. Somehow I do not think of this a stoves failure, rather the user has failed to read the f*ckin' directions. Canisters can blow up if you use a wind screen with them improperly...a LOT more spectacularly than a SVEA's emergency valve venting. They do not allow you to refill canisters, BECAUSE THEY GET OVERFILLED. Or, filled with Propane. And, I guess it would be a bit senseless to talk about spraying alcohol out of jets as an overfilled alcohol stove fires up. I am sure we have all had that happen.
>
> I deliberately put the old SVEA on a wood fire. It eventually popped the safety valve and vented fuel. Want to try that with a canister? What would happen with an alcohol stove? It is far safer to handle than a canister and far more reliable than an alcohol burner. After it cooled off, I simply filled it and lit it...it worked fine.
>
> For two week trips unresupplied, the SVEA is just plain efficient. It gets about 30 Liters per 12floz. But the fuel only has a density of ~.8, so a 12oz of fuel, bottle and a spare fill cap only weigh about 10.2 or 10.3oz.This is just under 1/3oz fuel per liter boiled. Even the best canisters only get about .25oz per liter, BEFORE adding in for the can. About .42oz per liter after adding in for the can. Total for two weeks is 27oz with the SVEA, Total for two weeks with a canister is 26oz. Total for alcohol for two weeks is 31oz, but, this is also solo for half liter boils...it is close to 60oz for full liter boils. Efficiency is about the same as a canister (good to excellent) and total starting weight is only one ounce heavier at about the same bulk. Dollars are FAR less. 12oz of WG cost about a dollar at today's rates, 12oz of canister gas cost about 15 dollars. 24oz of Yellow HEET cost about 6 dollars. Dollar efficiency is with the SVEA. It works
 from about -10F to abou
t 120F. Most lightweight canisters won't work much below 20F if that low. Alcohol stoves do not lend themselves to that temp range either.
>
> Yet, for very short trips, like 4-5 day outings, I prefer the alcohol stoves...the Caldera cone in particular. It just burns too much fuel for long distance hikes. For any fire prone areas, alcohol stoves can be a bit problematic. I prefer to have my coffee every morning...hot. The old JetBoil works well, but the bulk means I cannot usually bring it, and, it is heavier than the SVEA, anyway. I have been hiking in the backwoods for more than 40 years. Mostly, I use the SVEA SOLO or with a partner. In all that time, it has NEVER FAILED during a trip. It needed one rebuild in over 40 years of use, unlike MSR's yearly maintenance. It will run on auto-gas in a pinch. Though this may require a constant series of cleanings while using car gas, since this can burn a bit slower and sooty. It will run on benzene, though this is hard to find, nowdays. Acetone will work for short runs, though this can get expensive. It works on 10%alcohol/90% WG. I use this mix to
 clean it out after us
ing car-gas in it because car-gas can build up some sticky coatings after 10 or 12 usages... anyway, it IS a multi-fuel stove...just some odd fuels many people don't think of as fuel. I would note that the Coleman PEAK Exponent and Exponent II fare no better with car-gas and have the additional complexity/weight of a pump. I cannot say about newer car-gas because I bought a few gallons several years ago and haven't run out on a trip in a while, now.
>
> Bulk or Volume is a big concern, to me. I use a Gossamer Gear Murmur. The size of gear is as important as the weight. My solo kit consists of a SVEA w/cup windscreen, a 12floz bottle, 3 cup pot, a spoon and flat lid w/a tiny plastic handle. The pot is filled with my tarp. The wind screen, cup and stove fit into one of the pockets. The fuel bottle drops into the front pouch, where any leaks can dissipate. The spoon, stakes and top slip against my back. Last year I put on about 1000 miles between canoeing and hiking and didn't loose a single piece of gear. I had what I needed, and no more than what I needed.
>
> For some reason, they stopped development of the burner head when they got one to go. It makes a LOT of noise. This is not necessary. This is a true lack with the SVEA. Careful tuning will produce a near silent stove with just an occasional put-put, instead of a flapping roar. Like any stove, making a lot of noise means the fuel/air mix is off, somehow, and oscillating. Quite means things are working well. Turn it down! It should only produce about 2000BTU. More is very wasteful of fuel since it alternately burns too rich and too lean in the mixing chamber. ~800-1000BTU is perfect for high efficiency burns. About 10-14 minutes to boil 1L. Most of a 10000BTU burn is lost to the air. Consider, 10,000BTU for 6 minutes or 800BTU for 14 minutes. The difference is simply lost to the air, and it forces a decrease in boil time. You cann't find something to do for 8 minutes at camp? Wow, why hike if you are in that big of a hurry?
>
> Anyway, this talk of Swedish hand grenades is nonsense. A canister is FAR more likely to explode than a SVEA. I do not discourage others from using whatever they want. ALL stoves have their uses. I have built high efficiency alcohol stoves, but this is mostly because of the fuel. I have used several canister stoves, and hi-efficiency pots in combination. They have their place. But for long distance hikes, and especially at significant altitude, I have to recommend the SVEA. It performs too well, not to. The basic design goes back to the latter 1800's, and, sometimes, like a basic carpenters hammer, it is difficult to improve upon a basic tool. Old SVEA? Well, I AM catching up...I think...1/60, 2/61, 3/62, 4/64...hey, ha...
>         My thoughts only . . .
>                 jdm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Brick Robbins
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 4:51 PM
> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] old svea
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 8:50 AM,  <gary_schenk at verizon.net> wrote:
>>  They don't call them Swedish hand grenades for nothing!
>
> And list members rant and rave against alcohol stoves.....
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