[pct-l] Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru Hike

[Gena Nita]

This is in reply to Jesse Baldwin's question and adding to Dicentra's note.
I won't be able to assist with ideas on how to prep your business for your
trip but I can share my experience with you. I'm married, 30 yrs olf female
from Canada, who had decided to thru hike the PCT in 2015. My husband and I
go backpacking, canoeing, camping and horseback riding all summer long in
Ontario's provincial parks. We also planned a 2 weeks backpacking excursion
to Greece next yr...the highlight being climbing Mount Olympus in 2-3 days.

With this being said, when I asked my husband to join me on the PCT hike he
totally ignored the subject. I started doing research on the topic: watched
videos and read hikers' blogs, so the more I did this the more he started
making peace with it to the point that now he'd be surprised if I decided
not to go anymore. I run a lot of ideas by him, sharing stories I've read
online. I've also made it clear to him that I wouldn't go all by myself.
So, I posted a few adds searching for hiking partners, and was lucky to
find a fellow Canadian who's interested, and we're slowly but surely
planning the trip. We'd like to form a small 4-5 people group for this trip
so Dicentra, if you'd like to change your plans you could join us in 2015.

 However, I've never tried to force or convince my husband to join me, I
respect his decision. At the same time I told him that he can't expect me
not to go. Afterall we are all individuals with our own needs and goals,
and we should strive to achieve great things. Of course I'd love him to
come along, but I can't expect him to. There are many married hikers on the
trail, men and women, whose spouse's didn't join them for whatever
reason. So Jesses, give it time, 2016 is a long way from here, but try
including your wife in your planning, run things by her, ask for her input,
share stories you've read online, or even show her some videos, a bit at a
time...she might warm up to the idea. you coudl also explain to her that
you'd like to experience something great with your youngest son, something
that both father and son can remember for yrs to come. You might also want
to understand her point of view, why she might not want you to go. If you
take the time to explain why something's important to you, the other person
might, if not agree with you, at least understand your need for such an
experience.

For me, I love nature, I was born in Europe, From the age of 6 my parents
would take my brothers and I for 2 weeks abckpacking/camping in the
Carpathians, and 2 weeks at the Balck Sea. We did this every year for 8 yrs
until we moved to Canada. It's in my bones, I miss it, I drive 3 hrs out of
the city to hike a 19 km trail and then drive back home, all in the same
day. I can't expect my husband to join me every time. He also can't dictate
what makes me happy, at least not in this case...I'm satisfied that he
understands and respects my needs, and although he might not be pleased
with my decision he's still supportive. Besides I'll need him back hom to
send me stuff along the way, so he'd still be contributing towards my
adventure. And who knows, backpacking for 2 weeks in Greece might change
his mind and join me afterall.

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 10:00 AM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:

> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
>         pct-l at backcountry.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         pct-l-request at backcountry.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         pct-l-owner at backcountry.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..."
>
>
> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY
> include stuff that applies to your reply
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. How Women can Avoid using TP for No. 1 (lorna at ptera.net)
>    2. Re: Electronics and communication (Ralph Alcorn)
>    3. Re: Electronics and communication (Thomas Jamrog)
>    4. Re: TP vs Vegetation (gschenk1 at roadrunner.com)
>    5. Re: TP vs Vegetation (jape1 at cox.net)
>    6. Re: Burning TP (abiegen at cox.net)
>    7. San Jacinto to Cabazon (Stephen Clark)
>    8. Re: [John Muir Trail] Winter tent (Ned Tibbits)
>    9. Cat holes & disposal of human waste (Edward Anderson)
>   10. Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru Hike (Jesse Baldwin)
>   11. Re: Burning TP (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
>   12. Re: Burning TP (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
>   13. Re: Burning TP (Ann Marie)
>   14. changing the subject (Tortoise)
>   15. Re: Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru Hike (dicentra)
>   16. Boulder Bidet (John Coyle)
>   17. TP vs Vegetation (Reinhold Metzger)
>   18. TP vs Vegetation (Reinhold Metzger)
>   19. Hiking in sandals (Miekke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:25:16 -0700
> From: <lorna at ptera.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] How Women can Avoid using TP for No. 1
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <C3D97E5316894C85B8DAB890AE17901F at LornaHP>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="Windows-1252"
>
> So many times I?ve seen TP behind a tree or bush that was obviously used
> by a woman who was just peeing.  There is no need for this!!  Just pull
> back any body parts that are in the way, pee, bounce on your haunches a
> bit, and you?re done!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:28:49 -0700
> From: Ralph Alcorn <rbalcorn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Electronics and communication
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAAAw1RR20s-GC5LrwO-Z3PzsCJEh52GaD08WtYKwV07n1twVDA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I would carry two or three spare fully charged camera batteries (they are
> cheap) - enough to last between resupplies. For the phone get a spare
> battery (not so cheap) or one of those IGo chargers with tips for your
> devices and lithium batteries for the IGo.
>
> --
> Ralph Alcorn
> http://www.backpack45.com/camino2.html
> http://timecheck00.blogspot.com
> Shepherd Canyon books, Publisher of
> We're in the Mountains, Not Over the Hill: Tales and Tips from Seasoned
> Women Backpackers (also in Kindle), and
> Camino Chronicle: Walking to Santiago (also in Kindle)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 13:45:56 -0400
> From: Thomas Jamrog <balrog at midcoast.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Electronics and communication
> To: patrick griffith <patrickjgriffith at hotmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <A374C367-D579-42C5-8776-F765CE3431BD at midcoast.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> Patrick ,
> This is what I used on my 2010 PCT thru hike and I was able to keep up
> with a Trailjournal no problem.
> http://tjamrog.wordpress.com/2010/04/01/electronics-on-the-trail/  I
> might add that the iPod touch, MIFI, and my Western Mountaineering sleeping
> bag were the ONLY items that did not break or rip on my PCT hike.
> I upgraded to an iPhone in 2011 for a 30 day hike in New England.
> I take a separate digital camera to avoid the battery drain on my iPhone,
> although the new iOS 6 upgrade to the iPhone has a super panorama function
> and a very easy way to share photos.
> I don't use a bounce box.  I had one get lost by the post office once and
> that was a nightmare, and sometimes they do not arrive when you want them
> to, or you hit the place when it is closed and have to wait.   Sometimes
> the bounce box  has arrived but the staff who deals with it makes a
> mistakes about it not being there when in fact they are there.
> Better to keep it simple.
>
> Uncle Tom
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2012, at 7:02 AM, patrick griffith wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > How do people usually stay in touch with each other, and / or family
> while on the trail? I'd planned on taking the following with me : a small
> cell phone, a small music device, and a compact digital camera. I'll put
> the chargers in my bounce box and recharge everything in resupply towns.
> Does this sound sensible/reasonable? Also, what sort of access do people
> have to the internet on trail? If i can i'd like to keep a blog going,
> uploading reports and photos as I go for friends and family back home, but
> without a tablet computer or a more expensive smart phone (which i don't
> really want to carry with me for weight and cost reasons) i'm not sure how
> regularly i'd be able to do this. What do you all do when you're thru
> hiking?
> >
> > Patrick
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 9:59:57 -0400
> From: <gschenk1 at roadrunner.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP vs Vegetation
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <20121004135957.4GQ6T.320936.root at hrndva-web08-z02>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> ---- Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com> wrote:
> > On 10/3/2012 7:56 PM, Heather wrote:
> > > Scott, the idea is to "gather" downed vegetation, not "harvest"
> > > fresh, soft greenery ;)
> >
> > In many parts of southern California there isn't much downed vegetation
> > to gather. If 400 thrus all gathered it to use to clean up with, that
> > would still hardly be LNT.
>
> Rocks work well, too. And there's lots of rocks.
> I won't mention rattlesnake hide...
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:34:33 -0400
> From: <jape1 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP vs Vegetation
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <20121004143433.TF3E5.1228259.imail at fed1rmwml108>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> so the bear sez to the lizard, "say bub, does poop stick to your hide?"
>
> ---- gschenk1 at roadrunner.com wrote:
>
> > Rocks work well, too. And there's lots of rocks.
> > I won't mention rattlesnake hide...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:36:35 -0400
> From: <abiegen at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning TP
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Cc: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Message-ID: <20121004143635.GKSAR.1239671.imail at fed1rmwml206>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Shon wrote:
>
> >Have you tried Poodle Dog bush for backside wipes?? (joking, of coarse)
>
> I had a friend who was a surveyor. He learned this from his father and all
> the sons were surveyors. They did a lot of work surveying in Oregon. One
> time at a friend's insistence, they brought the friend along on a surveying
> trip. They got dropped in the middle of some Oregon forest by helicopter
> with food and supplies, to survey and to be picked up two weeks later.
> Those supplies did not include toilet paper.
>
> The noobie friend had to go number 2 and asked the brothers what he should
> do. They told him to just find some leaves and use them to wipe up. The
> noobie went off to do his business and returned a short while later. He
> told them that he had found some really soft leaves that worked great. He
> went on and on about how soft these leaves were and how he would always
> look for them when he had to go.
>
> Later that evening the noobie was experiencing some itching and discomfort
> that seemed to get worse as the night wore on. When the medivac helicopter
> carried him off the next morning the brothers agreed that next time they
> should make sure that noobies know what poison oak looks like.
>
> This was presented to me as a true story. Given similar situations with my
> son's friends I believe it.
>
> TrailHacker
> --
> "When my feet hurt, I can't think straight"
> Abraham Lincoln
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:29:43 -0700
> From: Stephen Clark <rowriver at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] San Jacinto to Cabazon
> To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CABAzAtFVdu50cw5pak2c8GQMVc0imEUKJs95gCaKg9suZQdRPw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Planning on San Jacinto Wilderness to Cabazon (I-10) October 26-28.  If
> anyone needs to complete this portion I could use some company.
>
> *Itinerary:   *
> *Friday  Oct 26th* - meet at the Palm Springs Tram* (lower station) at 1:00
> PM take tram to top and hike to Skunk Cabbage Meadows - first night's camp,
> or you could meet us at Skunk Cabbage from Devil's Slide Trail (Humber Park
> TH). Look for me at Saddle Junction at 4:00PM.
> *Saturday Oct 27th* - hike to Fuller Ridge CG, a 12 to 13 mile day (no
> water @ Fuller Ridge) or to Black Mt Rd CG... a 14 to 15 mile day ((no
> water @ Black Mt. faucets have been capped)
> *Sunday Oct 28th* - hike in to Cabazon (Ziggy and Bear's), a 19 to 20 mile
> day mostly down hill.
>
> *Since there is no reliable water in this section you should carry a
> minimum of 8 liters. *
>
> My car will be at Cabazon and I can take 3 to the long term tram parking
> 'or'  Idyllwild  (Humber Park) if necessary.
>
> Tram prices are: $23.95 for adults and $21.95 for seniors (over 62). If you
> park at Humber Park be sure to display a forest pass.
>
> Please let me know (off list) by Oct 15th if you wish to join me.
>
> Quackers
> aka Stephen
> RowRiver at gmail.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:36:18 -0700
> From: "Ned Tibbits" <ned at mountaineducation.org>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] Winter tent
> To: <johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com>,    <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <3B5C42A1C2894E1BA0A8737231A5D931 at NedPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>
> Ok, let?s wade into this one...
>
> Over the last 30 years of teaching snow camping and winter travel
> techniques, we have seen pretty much all the different styles and designs
> of shelters used on snow in good and bad weather (to include wind alone) by
> our students. Tested many of those tents for ourselves. Based on that...
>
> The ?winter? environment is not friendly nor kind to the human body
> because of the ?cold and wet? issue. Maintaining your ?internal
> environment? (between clothing and skin) as warm and dry is your first
> concern, always. So, when the outside environment gets nasty and you?re
> exhausted from wallowing through a foot or two of powder, the use of a tent
> can be life saving just when you need it!
>
> A winter tent provides real-time Safety. It gets you out of the wind, the
> wet, and the cold, all of which strive to steal your heat and threaten your
> life. Once started, hypothermia is no joke and must be arrested at once. It
> is not just the issue of frequent storms, but also any circumstance where
> you get wet in ambient cold, whether from the inside (going too fast or
> hard and getting sweaty) or the outside (fall in a creek, tumble in the
> snow, snow cave collapse, snow on your sleeping bag getting you wet, trying
> to travel in a snow storm/shower, etc.). As we teach our students, it is
> not worth it to try to continue struggling through the miles over/in snow
> just to get wet and exhausted when you could be conserving energy and
> staying warm by resting inside a nice, warm tent. Continue on when the snow
> conditions allow it (both those that are falling and those that are on the
> ?ground.?) No need to risk an avalanche!
>
> And don?t forget, Spring (when the sun is up longer melting the pack and
> less fresh powder is accumulating) snow has settled into a more compact,
> cohesive (though stratified), and for the most part stable mass that is
> ?usually? free of avalanche danger (a few conditions, here) and easier to
> walk on (not through as in winter and the need for snowshoes). Spring in
> the Sierra might be from Easter through thaw (with regard to snow issues)
> and its on-snow conditions could be said to include warm, longer days with
> hot sunshine, suncups, below freezing nights (until the thaw starts when
> nighttime temps hover at freezing or above), hard morning snow surfaces
> ?good? for walking on, slippery slopes (up, down, and across) that make you
> happy you brought your Kahtoolas and boots, water everywhere, raging
> creeks, mud below snowline, sun and retina burns, and a lesser risk of
> hypothermia/exposure. This is the safest time to be out on snow enjoying
> the ?winter wonderland? that snow creates!
>   ?Winter,? in contrast, means short days, long nights, ?workable? cold,
> loose, powder snow, storm systems and winds, and greater risks of
> hypothermia and exposure. Winter is a different animal than Spring,
> especially at 11,000 in the Sierra (wouldn?t you agree, Mr. Dittli?)
>
> It is safe to insist, Stay out of the high sierra and off all its steep
> slopes while it is still receiving feet of new snow. This could be from
> mid-November to mid-April. Even  experienced and trained rescuers will fly
> rather than ski or snowshoe in to locate the hasty foolish.
>
> Now, simply put, a tent provides protection from the external environment
> and comfort within an internal environment. Overall size of the tent is
> dictated by how much room you need to accomplish your daily-life?s
> activities like dressing, cooking, studying your maps, calling home, drying
> out wet clothing and gear, going to the bathroom in a blizzard, etc. while
> stuck inside for those longer winter hours or during periods of storms
> (these can last from less than a day to many days on end).
>
> Protection & comfort listed:
> - Layers of fabric provide a little insulation (between fly and tent body)
> and, thus, hold in heat a bit (doesn?t last long, but is comforting while
> you?re moving around).
> - Layers of fabric provide a barrier from the cold wind that is trying to
> take away your body heat.
> - The waterproof layer away from the tent body allows condensation to
> build ?out there? rather than on a wall you can touch (that will get you
> wet?never allow yourself to get wet in the winter environment!).
> - Almost-to-the-ground Fly sheet blocks wind-driven rain and snow from
> blowing up on the inner, non-waterproof ceiling of the tent getting it and
> you wet.
> - Nylon inner-wall material (vs. mosquito netting in the summer tent)
> keeps some more wind out and heat in.
> - Easy-to-set-up aluminum, shock-corded and lubricated pole systems that
> reach from the ground on one side to the ground on the other side keep the
> tent from collapsing under a two or three-foot over-night snow load
> (remember, ?decent? snow storms can dump faster than an inch/hour! If you
> can?t see the tree in front of you because of heavy blowing snow, it is
> falling at least this fast).
> - Enough poles crossing over the top of the tent making for smaller
> unsupported wall and roof fabric panels will support snow best.
> - The smaller the unsupported fabric panels, the less ?wind-flappage?
> (non-technical term).
> - Wind flappage makes noise (that may keep you awake at night),
> contributes to tent anchors pulling out (causing more flappage and leading
> to tent collapse), causes seams to separate and allow moisture in, and
> makes for further tent fabric stretching (already happening when it is
> raining or snowing because nylon does this when wet) that will allow
> further tent roof compression under load. As the fly stretches and is
> loaded by snow, it probably will start touching the inner ceiling fabric.
> What this will subsequently cause is condensation to accumulate on both
> surfaces at the same time (especially when you are cooking inside with
> insufficient flow-through ventilation) and you may get water dripping on
> you from above or at least running down the walls (this is especially true
> of all single-wall tents in the cold).
> - Doors at each end allow cooking in one vestibule while gear is stored in
> the other.
> - Seamless tub floors keep moisture out that might ruin your sleeping bag.
> Durable floors endure issues of the floor freezing to the snow overnight
> when pulled up in the morning.
> - Big zippers can be opened easier and tend not to freeze readily during
> storms.
> - Multiple tie-outs help tremendously in the winds of snow storms and you
> sleep better knowing everything is tied down!
>
> What all this means is what you use in the summer will not provide the
> needed safety, security, and protection for winter/spring conditions. Under
> ideal winter conditions, you can get by with a 3-season shelter, but what I
> have described above is a 4-season tent. We have seen ponchos, capes,
> bivys, single-walls, 1-pole, 2-pole, and 2 and a half-pole shelters used in
> late winter with disastrous results. That is why we bring another 4-season
> tent for folks to bail into when theirs collapses in the middle of the
> night!
>
> Of course, you can dig snow caves. They work great! Nice and warm and cozy
> (conditions apply). But keep in mind, the well-constructed ones may take
> two or three people a few hours to dig and you tend to get pretty wet in
> the process.
>
> If you appreciated this info, let us know and we?ll add more practical
> stuff to help you with your planning. The high trails need not be avoided
> in the winter or spring. Just know what to expect and plan for safe passage!
>
>
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education
> www.mountaineducation.org
>
> From: Kim Fishburn
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:53 AM
> To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Winter tent
>
>
>
> If you have the money I still recommend the Stephenson. Its lightweight,
> and great at shedding wind. My only real complaint about the tent is the
> Aluminized Liner. You won't want to be in the tent once the sun hits it and
> it warms up. It does however prevent much condensation from forming, if any.
>
> http://www.terragalleria.com/parks/np-image.dena11632.html
>
> http://www.terragalleria.com/mountain/info/ice/mk2.html
>
>
> The guy that has this website was featured at the end of Ken Burns
> documentary on the National Parks. If I remember right Ken found this guys
> website and used it as a reference for locations for filming.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Bill Cathey <b.cathey at yahoo.com>
> To: "johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com" <johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Winter tent
>
>
>
> Thanks, Kim. That's something I've considered for the future, when I have
> more experience. But, for now, I would probably feel more comfortable using
> a tent. I only started backpacking last year. If I take some type of
> course, I would like to have using tarps properly be part of the skills
> covered.
>
> bill
>
> On Oct 2, 2012, at 11:14 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>   Some people here in Minnesota just use a tarp and bivy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   From: Bill <b.cathey at yahoo.com>
>   To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:54 PM
>   Subject: [John Muir Trail] Winter tent
>
>
>
>   I'm thinking of trying out some winter camping this year. Does anyone
> have any recommendations on winter tents? Along with the Sierras and
> Yosemite, I'd eventually like to do some camping in locations such as
> Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, and the N. Rim of the Grand Canyon, if that
> makes a difference when selecting a tent.
>
>   I see that REI has one of their 20% off for members sales coming up, so
> I'd like to take advantage of it, if possible.
>
>   Thanks for any info.
>
>   bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __._,_.___
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic
> Messages in this topic (13)
> Recent Activity: a.. New Members 5
> Visit Your Group
> Please strip out "replied-to" text if not necessary to your reply.
>  Failure to strip makes it hard for our Daily Digest members to find the
> new postings among the repeats. For the crib sheet to take on JMT:
> http://tinyurl.com/6j6axeq - Prints on 1 sheet all the essential phone
> numbers/addresses you'll want for all services needed on or off the trail.
> We encourage all to join the JohnMuirTrail_Sidebar Yahoo Group, just send a
> blank email to:
> JohnMuirTrail_Sidebar-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
>  Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use.
>
> __,_._,___
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:36:48 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Cat holes & disposal of human waste
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Cc: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <1349379408.24054.YahooMailNeo at web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> ?
> This summer I rode one horse (no pack horse)?NOBO starting at Horseshoe
> Meadows and finishing in Yosemite Valley. Doing that section
> finally?finished the PCT for me
> ?
> Twice during my ride this summer I saw small signs on the side of the
> trail with arrows pointing up a trail?to where there was apparently some
> kind of outhouse.You were asked to use it to reduce pollution in those high
> use areas. I could not see the outhouses from the trail. Unfortunately, I
> do not remember the two locations. I am not even sure that they were on the
> JMT since I had descended?to resupply at both Cedar Grove and Vermilion
> V.Resort.?Since I didn't need to go, I rode on. I think that is a great
> idea - so long as they are completely?hidden - not visible from the
> trail.?The signs looked pretty new, perhaps I was looking at experiments to
> see if hikers would use them and the?pathogens, those?that end up in the
> water,?could be reduced. Maybe there will be more in the future. I'm for it
> in high-use areas as they can be well?hidden from view.?
> ??
> Regarding TP and cat holes. It is very important that cat holes be located
> properly and?dug deep enough. I consider it to be especially important that
> they be dug into organic material. Decomposition is already taking place
> there due to the presence of carbonic acid and bacteria. I have also used
> bio-degradable TP and peed on it or poured a little water on it?(to wet it
> and start the decomposition) and stirred it with a small stick?before
> filling the hole. Of course, the contaminated stick must?also be buried in
> the hole.??Instead of TP, I have also sometimes used leaves and especially
> the lichen moss (one species is?pale?green in color and the other is very
> dark green-black)?that you notice on the dead, and often?fallen branches of
> fir trees.?One excellent leaf is?called "mules ear". ?If course, I also
> bury?those in the cat hole. One other thing that I do is, after filling the
> hole, and camouflaging it, I pound the surface directly above a
>  couple of times with my heel to create a shallow depression that
> rain?water will collect in - so it will trickle down, helping with the
> decomposition, and reducing the chance of erosion washing out what is in
> the cat hole.
> ?
> One problem that women hikers must?have is that when they urinate (several
> timed a day) they don't necessarily dig a deep enough cat hole -
> unfortunately, sometimes no cat hole at all.?The urine itself is sterile.
> No pathogens at all. (It can be used to wash a wound).?It is the eyesore of
> seeing TP that sometimes ends upon the surface that bothers me. The best
> solution, if you use TP, is to bring the TP out. More and more thrus are
> doing just?that. I think that it is the week-enders who are less conscious
> of "leave no trace".
> ?
> I am most concerned about human fecal material (which is very high in
> pathogens)?finding its way into drinking water sources. I am very careful
> where I get my water (and what I touch -?since I don't take 0 days in
> towns, touching handles, salt shakers, etc. is not an issue)?and have not
> had a problem during my four years' riding the PCT. I have never used
> chemicals to treat my water but have occasionally had to filter if I
> considered the source risky.
> ?
> MendoRider-Hiker
> ?
> ?
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:31:37 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jesse Baldwin <jessembaldwin at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru Hike
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>         <1349371897.73478.YahooMailNeo at web162705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Basically, I have a goal of thru-hiking the PCT and it's time to put some
> meat to it by setting a date. I have chosen 2016 and I have some things to
> get in order by that time. I own an electrical contracting business, a
> home, I'm married to a "non-backpacker" wife and I have two sons. My oldest
> is 17 and almost out of the house (I hope) and the youngest is 6. The
> youngest will be turning 10 in May of 2016 (hopefully on the trail).
> My long-winded-point IS, I did a "Google" search re: wife permission PCT,
> etc since there is some resistance and mostly incredulity from the spouse.
> (Not much in the way of search results came up)
> I announced the date to her last week, and while watching the Nat Geo PCT
> doc (little lame, I know) I told her only 300 hundred or so people tried it
> in a year. She asked "How many people are in the US?" and I responded, "I
> don't know, around 300 million maybe." She said I should easily be able to
> figure out my odds for going by using the two figures...
>
> My question is: has anyone else had similar experience with a less than
> ecstatic partner in fostering buy-in and successfully planning and carrying
> out a thru-hike?
> And/ Or
> Does anyone have experience with prepping a contracting (or other small
> biz) for being away for up to 6 months on a thru-hike?
>
> Thanks in advance!
> ?
> Jesse Baldwin
> Owner
> Baldwin Industrial Group
> CA C-10 License #925362
> www.BaldwinIndustrialGroup.com <http://www.baldwinindustrialgroup.com/>
> www.MammothLakesContractors.com <http://www.mammothlakescontractors.com/>
> Ph. (760) 914-2455
> 53 South Landing Road
> Crowley Lake, CA 93546
>
> Thank you for choosing Baldwin Industrial Group!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 18:42:10 -0700
> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning TP
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>         <95ECDE75-2C88-4B6F-ACB3-E6F41D19A735 at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2012, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> >
> > From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning TP
>
> > On 10/2/2012 7:26 PM, Heather wrote:
> >> I just don't pack TP, but choose natural vegetation
> >
> > I have never understood how gathering vegetation to clean up with fits
> > in with the leave no trace ethic. If we all tore leaves off of plants
> > for any other purpose, it would certainly not be LNT.
>
> Didn't I hike through the Kimberly-Clark clear cuts just before
> Highway 36 near Chester? If you are using TP, Kleenex or Paper
> towels, there's a good likelihood you ARE using natural vegetation.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 18:45:35 -0700
> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning TP
> To: shon mcganty <smcganty at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>         <B2EA7EAE-2A39-466F-A488-8BDB38C1E0F2 at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Ha ha, yes I do know a lot of plants and yes I do know poodle dog
> bush. Most hikers don't know anything about their surroundings and
> don't want to. I would rather know a little bit, or be like Shroomer
> and know enough to eat (and wipe) my way through.
>
> On Oct 4, 2012, at 9:04 AM, shon mcganty wrote:
>
> > Wow, you know a lot of different sage plants.
> >
> > Have you tried Poodle Dog bush for backside wipes?  (joking, of
> > coarse)
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:05:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ann Marie <dbanmrkr at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning TP
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>         <1349402749.62545.YahooMailNeo at web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> A question: How many of you carry out used Wet Ones, or other baby wipes?
> Why is used TP different?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:05:04 -0700
> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] changing the subject
> To: patrick griffith <patrickjgriffith at hotmail.com>,    Pacific Crest
>         Trail List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <506E5C70.1030109 at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> If you want to change the subject and discuss something else, please do not
> reply to an existing message. Start with a new message. Otherwise two or
> more different subjects get tangled in the same thread (for those of us
> whose email client keeps messages organized by thread).
>
> --
> Tortoise
>
> Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
> inevitable
> President John F Kennedy,  1962
>
> All content is copyrighted. Reproduction or use elsewhere is is expressly
> prohibited without the express permission of the author. Use within the
> PCT-list is permitted.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 07:45:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: dicentra <dicentragirl at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru
>         Hike
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>,    Jesse Baldwin
>         <jessembaldwin at yahoo.com>
> Message-ID:
>         <1349448346.27697.YahooMailClassic at web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I don't have anything terribly useful to add other than... I feel your
> pain.
> ?
> My little on is 6 1/2 and my plan is to hike in 2017.? With her in tow.
> ?Hubby hasn't exactly said no... but it will be a challenge at any rate.?
> (For the record, me being a female has no weight in his mind. He's far more
> confident in?my abilities than I am.)
> ?
> Watching this thread!
> ?
> ~Dicentra
>
>
> http://www.onepanwonders.com?~ <http://www.onepanwonders.com/?~>Backcountry Cooking at its Finest
> http://www.freewebs.com/dicentra
>
> ?
>
> --- On Thu, 10/4/12, Jesse Baldwin <jessembaldwin at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jesse Baldwin <jessembaldwin at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru Hike
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Date: Thursday, October 4, 2012, 10:31 AM
>
>
> Basically, I have a goal of thru-hiking the PCT and it's time to put some
> meat to it by setting a date. I have chosen 2016 and I have some things to
> get in order by that time. I own an electrical contracting business, a
> home, I'm married to a "non-backpacker" wife and I have two sons. My oldest
> is 17 and almost out of the house (I hope) and the youngest is 6. The
> youngest will be turning 10 in May of 2016 (hopefully on the trail).
> My long-winded-point IS, I did a "Google" search re: wife permission PCT,
> etc since there is some resistance and mostly incredulity from the spouse.
> (Not much in the way of search results came up)
> I announced the date to her last week, and while watching the Nat Geo PCT
> doc (little lame, I know) I told her only 300 hundred or so people tried it
> in a year. She asked "How many people are in the US?" and I responded, "I
> don't know, around 300 million maybe." She said I should easily be able to
> figure out my odds for going by using the two figures...
>
> My question is: has anyone else had similar experience with a less than
> ecstatic partner in fostering buy-in and successfully planning and carrying
> out a thru-hike?
> And/ Or
> Does anyone have experience with prepping a contracting (or other small
> biz) for being away for up to 6 months on a thru-hike?
>
> Thanks in advance!
> ?
> Jesse Baldwin
> Owner
> Baldwin Industrial Group
> CA C-10 License #925362
> www.BaldwinIndustrialGroup.com <http://www.baldwinindustrialgroup.com/>
> www.MammothLakesContractors.com <http://www.mammothlakescontractors.com/>
> Ph. (760) 914-2455
> 53 South Landing Road
> Crowley Lake, CA 93546
>
> Thank you for choosing Baldwin Industrial Group!
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 08:30:56 -0700
> From: John Coyle <jcoyle at sanjuan.edu>
> Subject: [pct-l] Boulder Bidet
> To: "'pct-l at backcountry.net'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>         <BA88A7B46BF31C4FA68E8DEDDCDB92F3472E17711B at MAIL4.sjn.sanjuan.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Konichi-wa Yoshihiro.  Very good, I get the impression you have used the
> Boulder Bidet.  I have not, but I am thinking of trying it. I think bidets
> are not as common in America as Japan and Europe, so Americans may have to
> make an adjustment in thinking, but worth a try. Here is a link to the
> product for those that missed it:
> http://www.amazon.com/Boulder-Bidet-Portable-Travel-Backpacking/dp/B005ONIO1A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349450156&sr=8-1&keywords=boulder+bidet
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 03:48:50 -0700
> From: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] TP vs Vegetation
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <506EBB12.9070904 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> You all can use your flat rocks, pine cones, moth, grass, cactus flowers
> and poison ivy to wipe your rear ends...I tried that ones when I ran out
> of TP.
> Me,....I stick with TP....it's faster, more sanitary and does a better job.
> Flat rocks, pine cones, cactus flowers, grass, etc. does a half ass job.
> You guys may not mind running around with messy, smelly behinds.
> Me,.....I like a clean odor free rear end.
> No wonder long distance hikers have a reputation of smelling bad.
>
> That may also explains why all the good looking hiker babes always hang
> around me at the camp sites instead of staying with their hiking partners.
>
> Also, I would not be surprised if some of you waste precious drinking
> water to wash those smelly behinds or do it at the next lake or creek
> crossing.
> That, of course, goes a long way to enhance our drinking water.
> I don't like the idea of unknowingly coming in contact with via
> touching, sitting or walking on rocks and vegetation soiled with human
> feces, littering the trail.
> At least, exposed TP I can see and avoid....that is not the case with
> feces covered rocks and vegetation, unless they are  buried which very
> often is not the case.
> Exposed TP may be less pleasing to look at, but from a health point of
> view is less of a health problem than feces covered rocks and vegetation
> scattered along the trail.
>
> It is  my opinion that the problem with exposed TP along the trail is
> primarily caused by hikers to lazy or unwilling to carry a potty trowel
> to dig a potty hole deep enough to prevent it from being properly
> covered or dug up by animals and far enough from the trail and camp
> sites so it would not be visible even if dug up.
> I hear hikers telling me all the time...."ooohhh I don't carry a potty
> trowel, I use a stick, rock or my boot to dig a potty hole.
> Yeah,...right...2" deep covered with 1" of dirt, or less.
> The evidence of this is very obvious.
>
> I can just imagine a hiker running around in the middle of a rainy night
> looking frantically for a stick or rock to dig a 6"-8" potty hole and a
> flat rock, pine cone or cactus flower to wipe the rear end.
> Yeah....most likely the hiker, without a potty trowel or TP, wanting to
> get out of the rain as soon as possible, will abandon his search for the
> stick, right flat rock, pine cone, grass or cactus flower and just duck
> behind the nearest bush and get it over with.....besides, who wants to
> wipe with wet grass?
> Same for a hiker on the trail who has a sudden urge to go and is in to
> much distress to take the time to look for the right flat rock, pine
> cone, grass or cactus flower.
>
> There is some gear I will always carry on my hikes, including my sawed
> off potty trowel and TP...even on my JMT fast packs where UL is carried
> to the extreme.
> My trusted sawed off potty trowel allows me to dig a 6" - 8" potty hole
> in no time at all and cover it with enough soil and a rock so it will
> not be dug up and I don't have to waste time looking for flat rocks,
> sticks, pine cones, poison ivy leaves or cactus flowers.
>
> JMT Reinhold
> Your good smelling, TP loving trail companion
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Ken wrote:
> If you can't find vegetation use smooth rocks
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Heather wrote:
> I just don't pack TP, but use natural vegetation.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Diane wrote:
> There's way more Tp-able natural material in So-Cal than in the forested
> areas!
> The best is sage. White sage works well, rabbit sage is great, purple
> sage and yerba santa work well, coastal sage scrub is good, too.
> Bonus is you smell nicer afterwards.
> Dry grass works.
> Get long, thin dry grass and just fold it over a few times.
> Of low- elevation evergreens, chamise is ever-present.
> I've used sticks and rocks and evergreen boughs as well.
> All that stuff just gets any "residue" off.
> The real cleaning takes place when you wash yourself........
> I was also quite disturbed by all the TP on the trail in Oregon.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 03:52:12 -0700
> From: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] TP vs Vegetation
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <506EBBDC.4010909 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> You all can use your flat rocks, pine cones, moth, grass, cactus flowers
> and poison ivy to wipe your rear ends...I tried that ones when I ran out
> of TP.
> Me,....I stick with TP....it's faster, more sanitary and does a better job.
> Flat rocks, pine cones, cactus flowers, grass, etc. does a half ass job.
> You guys may not mind running around with a messy, smelly behind.
> Me,.....I like a clean odor free rear end.
> No wonder long distance hikers have a reputation of smelling bad.
> Also, I would not be surprised if some of you waste precious drinking
> water to wash those smelly behinds or do it at the next lake or creek
> crossing.
> That, of course, goes a long way to enhance our drinking water.
> I don't like the idea of unknowingly coming in contact with via
> touching, sitting or walking on rocks and vegetation soiled with human
> feces, littering the trail.
> At least, exposed TP I can see and avoid....that is not the case with
> feces covered rocks and vegetation, unless they are  buried which very
> often is not the case.
> Exposed TP may be less pleasing to look at, but from a health point of
> view is less of a health problem than feces covered vegetation scattered
> along the trail.
>
> It is  my opinion that the problem with exposed TP along the trail is
> primarily caused by hikers to lazy or unwilling to carry a potty trowel
> to dig a cat hole deep enough to prevent it from being properly covered
> or dug up by animals and far enough from the trail and camp sites so it
> would not be visible even if dug up.
> I hear hikers telling me....ooohhhh I don't carry a potty trowel....I
> use a stick, rock or my boot to dig a cat hole
>
> There's way more Tp-able natural material in So-Cal than in the forested
> areas!
> The best is sage. White sage works well, rabbit sage is great, purple
> sage and yerba santa work well, coastal sage scrub is good, too.
> Bonus is you smell nicer afterwards.
> Dry grass works.
> Get long, thin dry grass and just fold it over a few times.
> Of low- elevation evergreens, chamise is ever-present.
> I've used sticks and rocks and evergreen boughs as well.
> All that stuff just gets any "residue" off.
> The real cleaning takes place when you wash yourself........
> I was also quite disturbed by all the TP on the trail in Oregon.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 09:14:37 -0700
> From: Miekke <rayvenwahine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Hiking in sandals
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <422C419A-5728-41B5-B3F0-628A1DB4EB43 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi list!
> I regularly get blisters on my inner left heel area. Last weekend one
> started forming on the right side too, and as an additional bonus I also
> had blisters starting up on the inner balls of both feet. Obviously, I need
> to have a pro help me figure out what's up with that, but I'm also thinking
> about trying sandals because mostly those hot spot areas will not be
> covered if I'm in sandals. I also like the idea of not having to empty my
> shoes out all the time.
> So, for those of you who have hiked in sandals, what are the pros & cons,
> and what make/model/etc do you recommend?
> Thanks for the input!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 5
> ************************************
>