[pct-l] Heavier Sleeping Bag versus Lighter Sleeping Bag & Extra Clothing

Fri Jan 6 14:24:23 CST 2012

I've never had down collapse enough to make me cold.  In Mammoth I was
trying out a new tent in a storm and found that it leaked, and it leaked
right over my quilt.  Then there was lots of condensation which either flew
into my quilt or got on it when the wind pushed the fabric into my quilt.
 The surface of my quilt was soaked all night, and I'm sure some of the
down collapsed, but there was still plenty of loft and it was able to keep
me warm all night.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 7:00 AM, James Vesely <JVesely at edmsupply.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> I have been skeptical about switching to a quilt sleeping bag but after
> reading this on Ray Jardine's website I am considering on giving a quilt
> a try.  http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Quilt-Kit/index.htm
>
>
>
> I have copy/pasted a part of the linked web page below.
>
>
>
> Has anyone had the same problem of a down bag failing because of
> moisture like Ray writes about below?
>
>
>
> Thanks for the post Chiefcowboy.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
> Goose Down vs Synthetic insulation
>
>
>
> Goose Down
>
>
>
> Why I recommend synthetic insulation over goose down
>
>
>
> I was in high school when I bought my first down-filled sleeping bag.
> The year was 1960 and the company that made the bag was Holubar. In
> fact, Mrs. Holubar sewed this particular sleeping bag. And it sure was a
> big improvement over my cotton filled bag. The down was the highest
> quality prime northern goose down. Even so, after several years of
> rigorous service it lost its loft and had to be thrown out.
>
>
>
> In 1971 I designed and sewed together a two-person down-filled sleeping
> bag. Working with goose down is an unbelievably messy experience. I used
> this bag for a few years until it was stolen.
>
>
>
> In 1987 Jenny and I hiked the PCT using a top-quality goose down
> sleeping bag, unzipped and draped over the two of us. During this trip
> the sleeping bag failed us twice. Both times were when the bag became
> wet and lost its loft.
>
>
>
> One of these failures occurred during an uncommonly heavy deluge in the
> mountains of central Oregon. The main problem was not the rain, but our
> tent which was trapping moisture and soaking everything inside -
> including our down sleeping bag. For the first 24 hours we endured, but
> as time slowly passed, and the temperature slowly dropped, our ever more
> wet sleeping bag inexorably lost its loft. This was when we began to
> worry. On the verge of hypothermia we packed up - in the pouring,
> near-freezing rain - and resumed hiking.
>
>
>
> Hiking in a storm with a soaking wet goose-down sleeping bag is
> extremely dangerous. This is because one has no margins of safety.
> Should the storm intensify and require making camp, one could not. The
> wet and flattened sleeping bag would sap body warmth rather than
> preserve it.
>
>
>
> Many people have died in wet goose down sleeping bags, and I know of a
> few of them. And yet companies making goose down products continue to
> hype their wares, and to exaggerate their claims. Buyer, please beware!
>
>
>
> Fortunately, Jenny and I were not too many miles from a road, and
> managed to catch a ride into town.
>
>
>
> In the final few weeks of that 4+ month hike, the goose down had lost so
> much of its loft that it would not stay on top of us. It had so much
> room to move about inside the nylon layers that every time we shifted,
> so did the down - from off the top of us. We spent a lot of time shaking
> the down back toward the center. And even then, the sleeping bag was no
> longer warm.
>
>
>
> Returning home we retired that sleeping bag, all $350 worth of it, and
> kept it in a box for old times sake until finally throwing out.
>
>
>
> Back at it again, in 1991 we hiked the PCT a second time, again starting
> with a brand new, $350 goose down sleeping bag that finished the trip in
> exactly the same inglorious fashion. But at least during this trip the
> goose down failed us only once.
>
>
>
> We were hiking in a storm in northern California, miles from nowhere.
> Here again, the tent trapped moisture and soaked the sleeping bag, which
> in turn lost its loft. Nevertheless, we broke camp and hiked all through
> the next day. Towards evening we stopped to make camp, and in the rain
> pitched the tent but could not crawl inside. The weather was very cold,
> and we had no insulation to crawl into. Fortunately we were able to
> start a campfire. Also fortunately we had sewn a large awning to our
> tent. So under this we sat for a long while, trying to dry the wet
> sleeping bag.
>
>
>
> Not only is goose down quite useless when wet, because it goes flat as a
> pancake, only in clumps, but down is extremely difficult and slow to
> dry. So there we sat. The awning over us, which resembled a tarp, was a
> great help. It sheltered the sleeping bag while we held the bag toward
> the fire and its radiating warmth.
>
>
>
> We managed to dry the sleeping bag just enough to safely go to sleep.
> The night was anything but comfortable, but to our good fortune the
> weather began to clear the following day.
>
>
>
> After returning home and throwing that sleeping bag away, the next year,
> 1992, we again bought a new $350 goose down bag for a hike of the CDT.
> We also replaced the tent, fitted it with an even larger awning over its
> doorway, and cut away its entire front end - for much-needed
> ventilation. This trip certainly had its moments, weather-wise, but the
> sleeping bag at least survived, and although we have not used it since,
> at least we still have it, even though it lost about half of its loft.
>
>
>
> In 1993 we were preparing to hike the AT, but were in no moods to spend
> yet another $350 on another down sleeping bag. So we made our first
> "quilt" of synthetic insulation. This quilt proved remarkably easy to
> make, compared with my ordeal of making the down sleeping bag many years
> ago. And the quilt was very inexpensive. Yet it preformed a hundred
> times better than down. We were still using the tent & awning, and many
> times experienced heavy and prolonged downpours. We knew very well from
> experience that the pervading moisture would have flattened a down
> sleeping bag. But even though our synthetic quilt became quite
> moisture-laden on several occasions, it stayed warm. Big difference!
>
>
>
> In 1994 we hiked the PCT a third time, using a home-made quilt of
> synthetic insulation. Once again the quilt was a big success.
>
>
>
> Since that fifth long-distance hike we have made many long paddling
> journeys in the Arctic, in addition to our IUA hike & bike, rowing
> across the Atlantic, cycling across the U.S., kite skiing on the
> Greenland Ice Cap, skiing to the South Pole, climbing Vinson Massif in
> Antarctica, trekking in the Himalaya, mountaineering in Argentina, and
> so forth - all with home-made synthetic insulation quilts.
>
>
>
> We have learned, through much trial and error, the true disadvantages of
> down insulation - and we are not taking any more chances with it.
>
>
>
> Moreover, we like to think that thanks to our quilts made of synthetic
> insulation there are a few geese out there with their precious down
> still attached to their bodies rather than plucked as a commodity for
> commercial gain.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of
> chiefcowboy at verizon.net
>
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 5:49 PM
>
> To: Paul Bodnar; pct-L backcountry.net
>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Heavier Sleeping Bag versus Lighter Sleeping Bag &
> Extra Clothing
>
>
>
> I use a Jardine quilt (1.5 pounds) and when it's really cold I add the
> silk
>
> liner (4 ounces).  NEVER cold.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Paul Bodnar
>
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 3:58 PM
>
> To: pct-L backcountry.net
>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Heavier Sleeping Bag versus Lighter Sleeping Bag &
>
> Extra Clothing
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I prefer a 15 or 20 degree, high fill 800+, down bag.  Temperatures
> rarely
>
> get down to 15 or 20 degrees along the PCT during a typical thru-hike
> but
>
> having this extra warmth provides an additional level of comfort and
> safety.
>
> Most thru-hikers will be using their sleeping bag for about nine to ten
>
> hours each day.  If you can't sleep because you are too cold you will
> not
>
> get the rest you need to hike the 20+ mile days.  I feel that the extra
>
> ounces are worth it and in the event the temperature drops you will be
> happy
>
> you have a slightly heavier bag.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Hikethru.com
>
> PocketPCT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Do you prefer having a heavier sleeping bag (say, a 15 or 20 degree
>
> > bag) and only the lightest of clothing for when you are breaking
>
> > camp.... or, do you prefer having a lighter sleeping bag (say, a 30
>
> > degree bag) and than also having extra clothing (say for example, down
>
> > legs and a heavier jacket) thereby giving you the ability to
>
> > dual-purpose your clothing.
>
> >
>
>
>
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