[pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 56, Issue 11
Jane Overton
neoaflander at gmail.com
Sat Aug 11 15:30:24 CDT 2012
Regarding thru hikes and water caches. Is it possible that a higher
population of hikers depletes the natural water sources, making caches more
necessary. Not true at a perennial stream, but what about a little spring?
I am planning for 2013. I don't want to depend on water caches to survive
but would hate to get to a spring with 20 other hikers ahead of me. How
scarce IS the natural water? 25 miles is doable,barely. 50 miles is not.
On Aug 11, 2012 10:00 AM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
> pct-l at backcountry.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> pct-l-request at backcountry.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> pct-l-owner at backcountry.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..."
>
>
> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY
> include stuff that applies to your reply
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Rae Lakes Loop (Blanchard, Sym)
> 2. Re: GoLite umbrella (mike Shoys)
> 3. Re: Recruiting New Water Cachers! (Tortoise)
> 4. Re: Recruiting New Water Cachers! (Ryan Christensen)
> 5. Re: Third Gate Water Cachers (Ann Marie)
> 6. Re: Reading Fire in Lassen Park
> (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
> 7. Re: phone service/washington (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
> 8. Re: Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
> 9. Third gate Water Caches (Hootie Martin)
> 10. Re: Third gate Water Caches (Jeffrey Olson)
> 11. Southbound (Josh Hart)
> 12. Recruiting New Water Cachers! (Ken Murray)
> 13. Re: Recruiting New Water Cachers! (Lindsey Sommer)
> 14. weed on the trail (Logan Siler)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:15:55 +0000
> From: "Blanchard, Sym" <SWB3 at pge.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rae Lakes Loop
> To: Kathi <pogo at pctwalker.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <
> 35B3DCD753F48E4098CB647DC40F9AAE16B0E4B5 at EXCHMBFF191.Utility.pge.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Puddles,
>
> I just finished the Rae Lakes Loop trail last weekend (as well as Mt.
> Whitney).
>
> Lots of water available all along the way right on the trail. It is
> recommended to treat the water, but it all looked rather clear and copious.
> Depending on your hiking style, think you could get away with carrying
> only 1 to 2 liters at a time.
>
> The trail tread is very good even towards the top of Glen Pass. The trek
> up to the top Mt. Whitney is a different story.
>
> The weather was great except for a few short thunderstorms.
>
> Enjoy,
> Symbiosis
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________________
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 12:10:43 -0700
> From: Kathi <pogo at pctwalker.com<mailto:pogo at pctwalker.com>>
> Subject: [pct-l] Rae Lakes Loop
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>" <
> pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>>
> Message-ID: <50240B33.5070307 at pctwalker.com<mailto:
> 50240B33.5070307 at pctwalker.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> This is kind of PCT related since part of the trail is on the PCT...
>
> Has anyone had experience hiking in August along the Rae Lakes Loop trail?
> Mostly I am concerned about water and the trail tread. Do I have to carry a
> lot of water? I see from the topo there is a river or creek running along a
> lot of the trail and many lakes but I'm not sure how easy those are to
> "actually" get to. Also I have a problem walking over very "cliffy" area
> with lots of drop-offs. Any advice from those who've traveled through this
> area would be most appreciated.
>
> Thank you!
> Kathi "Puddles"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> PG&E is committed to protecting our customers' privacy.
> To learn more, please visit
> http://www.pge.com/about/company/privacy/customer/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 12:06:55 -0700
> From: mike Shoys <mashoys at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] GoLite umbrella
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CADC-2REMLXqQN5de4-Vyb1SBWfMLzbkC=
> kWQQHBL9roUahEMew at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> i would like to reiterate soul doctors thank you. after reading all your
> comments i've decided to go with the umbrella over a large-brimmed hat.
>
> the golite chrome dome is on sale for $20 here:
>
> http://www.golite.com/Chrome-Dome-Trekking-Umbrella-P928.aspx
>
> happy trails yall!
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:38 AM, CClark <dr_carolyn at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks to all for posting so many creative methods for attaching an
> > umbrella.I'm looking forward to trying some of them out!
> > Carolyn
> > 'Soul Doctor'
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 12:15:24 -0700
> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> To: Hootie Martin <hootie2006 at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <50255DCC.2080303 at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Amen!
>
> Tortoise
>
> Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
> inevitable
> President John F Kennedy, 1962
>
> All content is copyrighted. Reproduction or use elsewhere is is expressly
> prohibited without the express permission of the author. Use within the
> PCT-list is permitted.
>
> On 2012.08.10 08:46, Hootie Martin wrote:
> > Gary,
> >
> > This is a fantastic idea. While the 3rd Gate water cache gorillas have
> > done an admirable job over the years bringing water up to 3rd Gate, your
> > idea of moving the large cache to Scissors Crossing makes a heck of a
> lot
> > of sense as it would be much easier to maintain the cache given the
> volume
> > of water that is provided. I would suggest, however, that rather than
> > staging it at SC and suggest to thru-hikers that they transport 1-2
> gallons
> > up to 3rd gate to support a cache at the remote location, that they
> simply
> > carry what they need from the SC location that you have recommened to get
> > them to Barrel Springs.
> >
> > Sure, its a 23 mile waterless section, but there will be other sections
> > along the trail that they will need to be prepared to do the same thing
> and
> > thru-hikers should be able to determine early on how the are going to be
> at
> > least somewhat self sufficient in making it through a 20 mile waterless
> > section.
> >
> > I know that I probably do not fall in the majority, but the number of
> water
> > caches has multiplied over the years by a large margin and this has
> really
> > driven the idea of being self sufficient way down. Many folks on the
> list
> > suggest that thru-hikers do not become reliant on these water caches, but
> > frankly, based on the journals that I continue to read, many of today's
> > hikers fully depend and in fact plan to hike from cache to cache.
> >
> > Elevator
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:30:19 -0400
> >> From: <gschenk1 at roadrunner.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> >> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> >> Message-ID: <20120802203020.EH7MH.42646.root at hrndva-web08-z02>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >>
> >>
> >> ---- Greg Hummel <bighummel at aol.com> wrote:
> >>> A few of the 3rd Gate water cache gorillas (3GWCG's) are wishing to
> >> retire and the team is looking for new recruits in the San Diego -
> >> Escondido area that can help stock this cache for several weeks each
> >> spring. The cost of the water is paid for by proceeds from the ADZPCTKO.
> >>
> >> Here's an idea: since the thru-hikers are going up there anyway, how
> about
> >> they carry the water? They could take small amounts, say 1.5 to 2
> gallons
> >> each starting at Scissors Crossing.
> >>
> >> Whattya think?
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 14:46:16 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ryan Christensen <yosemiteryan at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> To: "Tortoise73 at charter.net" <Tortoise73 at charter.net>, Hootie Martin
> <hootie2006 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1344635176.81123.YahooMailNeo at web111416.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Here, Here!
>
>
> Well stated.
>
> ?
> ProDeal
>
> www.bristleconemedia.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
> To: Hootie Martin <hootie2006 at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
>
> Amen!
>
> Tortoise
>
> Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
> inevitable
> President John F Kennedy,? 1962
>
> All content is copyrighted. Reproduction or use elsewhere is is expressly
> prohibited without the express permission of the author. Use within the
> PCT-list is permitted.
>
> On 2012.08.10 08:46, Hootie Martin wrote:
> >? Gary,
> >
> > This is a fantastic idea.? While the 3rd Gate water cache gorillas have
> > done an admirable job over the years bringing water up to 3rd Gate, your
> > idea of moving the large cache to Scissors Crossing makes a heck of? a
> lot
> > of sense as it would be much easier to maintain the cache given the
> volume
> > of water that is provided.? I would suggest, however, that rather than
> > staging it at SC and suggest to thru-hikers that they transport 1-2
> gallons
> > up to 3rd gate to support a cache at the remote location, that they
> simply
> > carry what they need from the SC location that you have recommened to get
> > them to Barrel Springs.
> >
> > Sure, its a 23 mile waterless section, but there will be other sections
> > along the trail that they will need to be prepared to do the same thing
> and
> > thru-hikers should be able to determine early on how the are going to be
> at
> > least somewhat self sufficient in making it through a 20 mile waterless
> > section.
> >
> > I know that I probably do not fall in the majority, but the number of
> water
> > caches has multiplied over the years by a large margin and this has
> really
> > driven the idea of being self sufficient way down.? Many folks on the
> list
> > suggest that thru-hikers do not become reliant on these water caches, but
> > frankly, based on the journals that I continue to read, many of today's
> > hikers fully depend and in fact plan to hike from cache to cache.
> >
> > Elevator
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:30:19 -0400
> >> From: <gschenk1 at roadrunner.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> >> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> >> Message-ID: <20120802203020.EH7MH.42646.root at hrndva-web08-z02>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >>
> >>
> >> ---- Greg Hummel <bighummel at aol.com> wrote:
> >>> A few of the 3rd Gate water cache gorillas (3GWCG's) are wishing to
> >> retire and the team is looking for new recruits in the San Diego -
> >> Escondido area that can help stock this cache for several weeks each
> >> spring. The cost of the water is paid for by proceeds from the ADZPCTKO.
> >>
> >> Here's an idea: since the thru-hikers are going up there anyway, how
> about
> >> they carry the water? They could take small amounts, say 1.5 to 2
> gallons
> >> each starting at Scissors Crossing.
> >>
> >> Whattya think?
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 15:47:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ann Marie <dbanmrkr at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Third Gate Water Cachers
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1344638834.17141.YahooMailNeo at web140604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> As one who has helped them this past year, I truly salute them for getting
> that water to where it is definitely needed and wanted.
>
> It's a thankless job, despite the few journal entries giving them thanks.
> These people give up their whole morning (in my case most of my day, with
> traffic
> or more,) not to mention the extra time it takes to purchase or order the
> water gallons in advance.
>
> A debate is going on now to determine how best to continue this service to
> the hikers. No one is even considering asking the hikers to carry their own
> water from Scissors Crossing to 3rd gate or Barrel Spring. At most, this
> discussion is centering on asking the hikers to walk down the hill to where
> the "cache" is being dropped, a 1/4 mile one way.
>
> Get a grip and some facts.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:16:33 -0700
> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Reading Fire in Lassen Park
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <80210499-37A9-49E8-9526-C233D16E3C1E at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> PCT hikers should take that alternate route anyway. In comparison,
> the official route sucks big green donkey schlongs. Yes, that's a
> technical term.
>
> On Aug 10, 2012, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>
> > Subject: [pct-l] Reading Fire in Lassen Park
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> >
> > Reading Fire in Lassen Park: There is a lightning-caused fire in
> > Lassen Park which has closed a portion of the PCT. According to
> > http://yubanet.com/CAFires/Reading.php, "Northbound PCT hikers will
> > need to detour at Lower Twin Lake and follow the trail past Rainbow
> > Lake to continue onto Butte Lake. From there hikers will access state
> > highway 44W to Old Station where they can continue northbound on the
> > PCT."
> >
> > Piper's Mom
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:18:21 -0700
> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] phone service/washington
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <1E24F601-D6B3-4DEF-AF9B-F853B554DEFA at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> There is no phone service in Stehekin. But there is one public
> satellite phone you can use. It's very annoying with a 7 second
> delay, but that's the only way anyone can make a phone call in Stehekin.
>
> On Aug 10, 2012, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>
> > From: ambery-80243 at mypacks.net
> > Subject: [pct-l] phone service/washington
> >
> > Can anyone tell me how phone service is at the major road crossings
> > or passes in northern Washington - particularly at Stehekin? I'm
> > arranging for a ride when I hit the border and want to let them
> > know if I'm still on schedule when I get up that way. I have AT&T.
> > Thanks.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:22:23 -0700
> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <117B4C07-A53B-48EA-B5E2-5FC10DA6A03C at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> I was able to carry all the water I needed from Rodriguez Spring (I
> actually got water from the real spring, not the tank) to Barrel
> Spring. A water cache is not really needed, even though there are
> two. The one at Scissors Crossing is probably enough all by itself,
> although it's not in the most useful location relative to Rodriguez
> Spring. About all you could do there is top off.
>
> On Aug 10, 2012, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>
> > From: Hootie Martin <hootie2006 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> >
> > Gary,
> >
> > This is a fantastic idea. While the 3rd Gate water cache gorillas
> > have
> > done an admirable job over the years bringing water up to 3rd Gate,
> > your
> > idea of moving the large cache to Scissors Crossing makes a heck
> > of a lot
> > of sense as it would be much easier to maintain the cache given the
> > volume
> > of water that is provided. I would suggest, however, that rather than
> > staging it at SC and suggest to thru-hikers that they transport 1-2
> > gallons
> > up to 3rd gate to support a cache at the remote location, that they
> > simply
> > carry what they need from the SC location that you have recommened
> > to get
> > them to Barrel Springs.
> >
> > Sure, its a 23 mile waterless section, but there will be other
> > sections
> > along the trail that they will need to be prepared to do the same
> > thing and
> > thru-hikers should be able to determine early on how the are going
> > to be at
> > least somewhat self sufficient in making it through a 20 mile
> > waterless
> > section.
> >
> > I know that I probably do not fall in the majority, but the number
> > of water
> > caches has multiplied over the years by a large margin and this has
> > really
> > driven the idea of being self sufficient way down. Many folks on
> > the list
> > suggest that thru-hikers do not become reliant on these water
> > caches, but
> > frankly, based on the journals that I continue to read, many of
> > today's
> > hikers fully depend and in fact plan to hike from cache to cache.
> >
> > Elevator
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:25:06 -0700
> From: Hootie Martin <hootie2006 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Third gate Water Caches
> To: dbanmrkr at yahoo.com, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAJcy8WEMoibZbAEEkxafMcCUrqP0FsXQ-zPkngsN2e8H6xStPQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Anne Marie,
>
> Get a grip and some facts? Excuse me, but I was simply responding to a
> post from Gary earlier this week when he suggested a different
> alternative to the request for new volunteers to take over for the
> those that have been hauling water up to 3rd gate for years.
>
> I understand very well that this is no easy feat to haul 300 gallons
> of water up there. That was not the focus of my email. What I
> suggested was a very viable alternative, based on my thru-hike
> experience and that of many others that have hiked the trail in the
> past.
>
> So, to suggest I get a grip is BS, so back off before say something
> that will get me moderated once again.
>
> What I have stated in my earlier post is very much the case. If
> thru-hikers were my self sufficient there would not be a need for a
> water cache at both Scissors Crossing and 3rd gate. It is very
> realistic that hikers can make the journey between SC and Barrel
> Springs without the 3rd gate cache. Every one out there should be
> able to plan and carry enough water to go 23 miles, even if this takes
> 1-2 days.
>
> I was not critical of the volunteers that have done so much to
> maintain this cache in the past, but there are other options and what
> I suggested is just one that does in fact have merit.
>
> I don't mind if you disagree, but lady back off in telling me to get a
> grip and facts.
>
>
> Elevator
>
>
> As one who has helped them this past year, I truly salute them for
> getting that water to where it is definitely needed and wanted.
>
> It's a thankless job, despite the few journal entries giving them
> thanks. These people give up their whole morning (in my case most of
> my day, with traffic
> or more,) not to mention the extra time it takes to purchase or order
> the water gallons in advance.
>
> A debate is going on now to determine how best to continue this
> service to the hikers. No one is even considering asking the hikers to
> carry their own water from Scissors Crossing to 3rd gate or Barrel
> Spring. At most, this discussion is centering on asking the hikers to
> walk down the hill to where the "cache" is being dropped, a 1/4 mile
> one way.
>
> Get a grip and some facts.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:41:03 -0600
> From: Jeffrey Olson <jolson at olc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Third gate Water Caches
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <5025D44F.6050400 at olc.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> AT the risk of creating ire and bad vibes I would vote to NOT provide
> water (or routine trail angel) support anywhere on the trail. I know
> I'm probably a minority opinion, but I want to express it regardless.
>
> As part of a circumambulation of the Ritter Range and Minarets starting
> and ending at Tuolomne in mid-june, we hiked 35 miles on the PCT. We
> ran into 40 or so thru-hikers in three days. One of them said there
> were 600 permits issued and 400 hikers on the trail in a standard normal
> curve covering two or three weeks. We hadn't run into the "herd" - they
> were still coming. I don't know how accurate these numbers are.
>
> I'm all for people envisioning a dream and then planning well enough to
> carry it out. A couple 35 mile stretches of trail w/o water is part of
> the hike, part of the planning. "What do I do?" "How do I carry this
> off?" It's like getting caught in a snow storm going down the knife
> edge in the Goat Rocks. You deal with it and move on.
>
> But I'll tell you, running into 40 thru-hikers in three days had me run
> the gamut of valorizing their effort with the first couple, to ignoring
> the rest when they occurred often enough to seem like ants.
>
> I got lambasted a couple months ago for telling a story that attempted
> to be humorous about trail angels. The underlying theme was threatening
> I guess. I'll just baldly state it so there's no misunderstanding.
> Non-hiker supports on the trail move a thru- or long section-hike into
> the realm of possibility for more people. I don't think this is
> desireable or good.
>
> When I first started doing section hikes in the early 90s a trail angel
> was someone who out of the blue, while in the midst of their own life,
> helped out a hiker. They didn't carry hundreds of gallons of water or
> put coolers of pop and beer near road crossings. I don't disparage 21st
> century trail angels motivation. Those I've met have been warm and
> caring people.
>
> My point is not to punch trail angels in the gut. My point is that
> doing the trail on the trails terms is an important part of the vision.
> If I think I can count on water someone put somewhere, then I'm not
> hiking the trail on its own terms.
>
> I used to think that hiking in loose groups was somehow not "true" long
> distance hiking. You had to do it on your own - to challenge yourself,
> to feel the deep emotions that wanted you to leave the trail and go
> home. Now I realize I don't like hiking alone, and would only consider
> my next long hike if it involves people. To someone dedicated to hiking
> alone, my perspective involves not hiking the trail on its own merits.
>
> This is an opinion. Feel free to disagree. Just don't get all negative
> on me. If your ire raises, just ignore this perspective. It's just one
> person's opinion...
>
> Jeffrey Olson
> Rapid City, SD
>
>
> What I have stated in my earlier post is very much the case. If
> thru-hikers were my self sufficient there would not be a need for a
> water cache at both Scissors Crossing and 3rd gate. It is very realistic
> that hikers can make the journey between SC and Barrel Springs without
> the 3rd gate cache. Every one out there should be able to plan and carry
> enough water to go 23 miles, even if this takes 1-2 days. I was not
> critical of the volunteers that have done so much to maintain this cache
> in the past, but there are other options and what I suggested is just
> one that does in fact have merit.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:36:20 -0700
> From: Josh Hart <thejoshhartproject at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Southbound
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CAETnM+Qx=BD6sJUzmq0+pQ=
> DqtAy54PmiUyYAnMJKdiaBgedCg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I met up with"team spider bark" southbound around mile 1986 and hiked with
> them Tuesday to Elk Lake mile 1959? Ish. They said Jefferson Wilderness had
> an hour or two of snow. Sisters about the same, maybe less for those going
> north. They claimed to be thru hiking skiping no trail and started at
> manning June 21st.
>
> That's what I know.
>
> Happy Feet
> Bend, Oregon
> On Aug 10, 2012 10:00 AM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
>
> > Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
> > pct-l at backcountry.net
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > pct-l-request at backcountry.net
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > pct-l-owner at backcountry.net
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..."
> >
> >
> > Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY
> > include stuff that applies to your reply
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: 2012 PCT Hiker Register - Wapinitia Pass/Hwy 26, Oregon
> > (Walt Mayberry)
> > 2. Rae Lakes Loop (Kathi)
> > 3. Reading Fire in Lassen Park (Meridith Rosendahl)
> > 4. Re: Any tent spot near the beginning of Oregon Section B?
> > (Ron Cluster)
> > 5. phone service/washington (ambery-80243 at mypacks.net)
> > 6. Re: Recruiting New Water Cachers! (Hootie Martin)
> > 7. Re: GoLite umbrella (CClark)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 10:43:08 -0700
> > From: Walt Mayberry <wmayberry at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] 2012 PCT Hiker Register - Wapinitia Pass/Hwy 26,
> > Oregon
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> > CAM+2-Ltkth7bjDFnmnAwz-8qWgwKsgjj0DF9M3bKOQ_BeFCKhA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Updates from the Wapinitia Pass trail register are posted at the link
> below
> > - 21x Thru (14x NOBO, 7x SOBO), 31x Section and 64x day/short leg/unknown
> > hikers so far this year.
> >
> > The register does note that entries will be shared online, though I also
> > consider entries in a public register to be public information. Online
> > update is delayed from register entry so the hiker will be many miles
> away
> > before it is shared. Trail names also provide a level of anonymity. Not
> > all hikers make a register entry and some provide incomplete information.
> > Some hikers have noted it is useful to find old friends who are trailing
> > behind them.
> >
> > A similar register has now been placed at Snoqualmie Pass in Washington.
> > Information from it will be shared at the end of the hiking year.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Walt Mayberry <wmayberry at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I placed a trail register at Wapinitia Pass, OR on July 8. It is in a
> box
> > > on a post just to the west of the Hwy 26 crossing near mile 2108
> > (Postholer
> > > map) / 2097 (Halfmile map) and about 10 mi south of Timberline Lodge.
> > > Please leave a note to share with others as you pass.
> > >
> > > I will occasionally post register updates on the Postholder PCT forum
> at:
> > > http://postholer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2277
> > > Entries from July 8 - 28 are now available. Nine thru hikers have
> passed
> > > so far, some SOBO. I expect to post the next update in about a week.
> > >
> > > Wapanitia Pass trail registers for 2010 and 2011 can be viewed here:
> > > http://postholer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1357
> > >
> > > Walt
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 12:10:43 -0700
> > From: Kathi <pogo at pctwalker.com>
> > Subject: [pct-l] Rae Lakes Loop
> > To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > Message-ID: <50240B33.5070307 at pctwalker.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > This is kind of PCT related since part of the trail is on the PCT...
> >
> > Has anyone had experience hiking in August along the Rae Lakes Loop
> > trail? Mostly I am concerned about water and the trail tread. Do I have
> > to carry a lot of water? I see from the topo there is a river or creek
> > running along a lot of the trail and many lakes but I'm not sure how
> > easy those are to "actually" get to. Also I have a problem walking over
> > very "cliffy" area with lots of drop-offs. Any advice from those who've
> > traveled through this area would be most appreciated.
> >
> > Thank you!
> > Kathi "Puddles"
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 15:35:49 -0700
> > From: Meridith Rosendahl <meridith.rosendahl at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [pct-l] Reading Fire in Lassen Park
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAEJJFno1q7XJxSyA1UNTY0ee+vZ=
> > ufCf7xiW1s1_hm6eY2fh-w at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Reading Fire in Lassen Park: There is a lightning-caused fire in
> > Lassen Park which has closed a portion of the PCT. According to
> > http://yubanet.com/CAFires/Reading.php, "Northbound PCT hikers will
> > need to detour at Lower Twin Lake and follow the trail past Rainbow
> > Lake to continue onto Butte Lake. From there hikers will access state
> > highway 44W to Old Station where they can continue northbound on the
> > PCT."
> >
> > Piper's Mom
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 21:18:24 -0700
> > From: Ron Cluster <rcluster at comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Any tent spot near the beginning of Oregon
> > Section B?
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Message-ID: <3E4C2F52-2274-4D07-AD98-A2E3AC439924 at comcast.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > Thanks everyone for the replies (and the one phone call !!). Sounds like
> > the saddle just before (for northbounders) Pilot Rock is the spot that
> > everyone remembers so that's what we'll plan on.
> >
> > Leaving in a week.....woo hoo!
> >
> > Snowplow
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 07:33:59 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
> > From: ambery-80243 at mypacks.net
> > Subject: [pct-l] phone service/washington
> > To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> >
> 13240027.1344609240285.JavaMail.root at mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net
> > >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Can anyone tell me how phone service is at the major road crossings or
> > passes in northern Washington - particularly at Stehekin? I'm arranging
> > for a ride when I hit the border and want to let them know if I'm still
> on
> > schedule when I get up that way. I have AT&T.
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 08:46:18 -0700
> > From: Hootie Martin <hootie2006 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAJcy8WHLd7viu2wOaCsVOAM8Y07oW+=
> > KPXkZqYgiNL25ZZoh6Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Gary,
> >
> > This is a fantastic idea. While the 3rd Gate water cache gorillas have
> > done an admirable job over the years bringing water up to 3rd Gate, your
> > idea of moving the large cache to Scissors Crossing makes a heck of a
> lot
> > of sense as it would be much easier to maintain the cache given the
> volume
> > of water that is provided. I would suggest, however, that rather than
> > staging it at SC and suggest to thru-hikers that they transport 1-2
> gallons
> > up to 3rd gate to support a cache at the remote location, that they
> simply
> > carry what they need from the SC location that you have recommened to get
> > them to Barrel Springs.
> >
> > Sure, its a 23 mile waterless section, but there will be other sections
> > along the trail that they will need to be prepared to do the same thing
> and
> > thru-hikers should be able to determine early on how the are going to be
> at
> > least somewhat self sufficient in making it through a 20 mile waterless
> > section.
> >
> > I know that I probably do not fall in the majority, but the number of
> water
> > caches has multiplied over the years by a large margin and this has
> really
> > driven the idea of being self sufficient way down. Many folks on the
> list
> > suggest that thru-hikers do not become reliant on these water caches, but
> > frankly, based on the journals that I continue to read, many of today's
> > hikers fully depend and in fact plan to hike from cache to cache.
> >
> > Elevator
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:30:19 -0400
> > > From: <gschenk1 at roadrunner.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> > > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > > Message-ID: <20120802203020.EH7MH.42646.root at hrndva-web08-z02>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> > >
> > >
> > > ---- Greg Hummel <bighummel at aol.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few of the 3rd Gate water cache gorillas (3GWCG's) are wishing to
> > > retire and the team is looking for new recruits in the San Diego -
> > > Escondido area that can help stock this cache for several weeks each
> > > spring. The cost of the water is paid for by proceeds from the
> ADZPCTKO.
> > >
> > > Here's an idea: since the thru-hikers are going up there anyway, how
> > about
> > > they carry the water? They could take small amounts, say 1.5 to 2
> gallons
> > > each starting at Scissors Crossing.
> > >
> > > Whattya think?
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:38:41 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: CClark <dr_carolyn at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] GoLite umbrella
> > To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > Message-ID:
> > <1344616721.67522.YahooMailNeo at web114708.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > Thanks to all for?posting so?many creative?methods for attaching?an
> > umbrella.I'm looking forward to trying some of them out!
> > Carolyn
> > 'Soul Doctor'
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> >
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> > End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 56, Issue 10
> > *************************************
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 01:27:52 -0400
> From: Ken Murray <kmurray at pol.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> To: "." <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <
> 1169052296.5213031344662872760.JavaMail.root at zmcs03l-pol-08.portal.webmd.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Friends,
>
> The issue of trail support has weighed on me this year. With the
> destruction of my ankle, I'll probably never complete the trail, so my
> perspective is soley as a support person. I spend most of my summers
> working on the trail in the Sierra, and run into many hikers on their
> journey. I was involved in cutting the trees at Red's Meadow this year.
>
> I was very bothered by the volume of people this year. The impact of
> about a thousand people is significant.
>
> Even in the ten years that I've been doing support, there has been a huge
> increase, and not just this year.
>
> When I was doing a project at Lake Edison this summer, I asked several
> hikers what most surprised them, and they were unanimous in saying "the
> social aspect".
>
> My observation: This increase is occuring because the trail is becoming
> easier to hike. All of the resupply options, all the water support, the
> support books of various sorts, maps, descriptions of how to do it, the
> places to stay as a group that has a HUGE impact on the psychological
> component....they all have an impact.
>
> The KO has filled up every year. There are not significantly more people
> this year at the KO, than there were 5 years ago. What HAS happened is
> that it fills up quicker and quicker each year...Used to take a month, now
> less than a week. The pool of potential hikers has hugely expanded, but
> they are not being accommodated at the KO.
>
> Donna has had to set daily limits. The volume of water at caches used is
> sometimes unbelievable....and will go up.
>
> I don't have an answer to all this, but the future is predictable. You
> used to have to be able to manage snow, manage water, manage permits,
> manage your mental state, manage resupplies. It is getting so you don't
> even NEED a formal resupply. How best to get cell phone coverage? Spot? Sat
> phone?
>
> Do people even get lonely?
>
> This is not the trail that Eric Ryback hiked, nor Teddie, nor Strider, nor
> Kelty Kid.
>
> In the forest service, they say that wilderness management is a misnomer.
> We don't need to manage the wilderness, it has done fine for itself for
> millenia. It is about managing PEOPLE, and it's true.
>
> How to manage the people will be the biggest challenge for the trail, I
> think. But as is true for many things, more people does not make the
> problem better.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 11:12:57 -0400
> From: Lindsey Sommer <lgsommer at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recruiting New Water Cachers!
> To: Ken Murray <kmurray at pol.net>
> Cc: "." <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAJmjT_nvQ2EQayGc-ScDNmMG5Hn4BhAAH0hPCTNmmcdJgO_TfQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Ken, you make some interesting points.
>
> In a lot of ways, I'm a little sad that I've waited until next summer to do
> a hike. Growing up in northern California, I've known about the trail my
> whole life, but unfortunately the only time I've had a REAL summer off (I'm
> in grad school for the next 2 years) has coincided with all the things
> you've mentioned as well as the "Wild" Oprah effect.
>
> However, while I have no comment on whether the trail is getting easier
> (I've never hiked it, so I don't know one way or the other), it does seem
> like long distance hiking and the PCT have been getting more attention in
> general (regardless of "Wild", effect, from your experience this seems to
> have started a before the past year).
>
> And I agree, managing the number of people wanting to hike is going to be
> one of the biggest challenges over the next few years, ESPECIALLY now that
> they're making a movie from Strayed's book. In a lot of ways, I feel really
> sad and disappointed that I've somehow missed experiencing the trail the
> way it used to be, because I suspect that will make a huge difference in
> terms of the number of people wanting to hike it.
>
> Cheers,
> Lindsey
>
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Ken Murray <kmurray at pol.net> wrote:
>
> > Friends,
> >
> > The issue of trail support has weighed on me this year. With the
> > destruction of my ankle, I'll probably never complete the trail, so my
> > perspective is soley as a support person. I spend most of my summers
> > working on the trail in the Sierra, and run into many hikers on their
> > journey. I was involved in cutting the trees at Red's Meadow this year.
> >
> > I was very bothered by the volume of people this year. The impact of
> > about a thousand people is significant.
> >
> > Even in the ten years that I've been doing support, there has been a huge
> > increase, and not just this year.
> >
> > When I was doing a project at Lake Edison this summer, I asked several
> > hikers what most surprised them, and they were unanimous in saying "the
> > social aspect".
> >
> > My observation: This increase is occuring because the trail is becoming
> > easier to hike. All of the resupply options, all the water support, the
> > support books of various sorts, maps, descriptions of how to do it, the
> > places to stay as a group that has a HUGE impact on the psychological
> > component....they all have an impact.
> >
> > The KO has filled up every year. There are not significantly more people
> > this year at the KO, than there were 5 years ago. What HAS happened is
> > that it fills up quicker and quicker each year...Used to take a month,
> now
> > less than a week. The pool of potential hikers has hugely expanded, but
> > they are not being accommodated at the KO.
> >
> > Donna has had to set daily limits. The volume of water at caches used is
> > sometimes unbelievable....and will go up.
> >
> > I don't have an answer to all this, but the future is predictable. You
> > used to have to be able to manage snow, manage water, manage permits,
> > manage your mental state, manage resupplies. It is getting so you don't
> > even NEED a formal resupply. How best to get cell phone coverage? Spot?
> Sat
> > phone?
> >
> > Do people even get lonely?
> >
> > This is not the trail that Eric Ryback hiked, nor Teddie, nor Strider,
> nor
> > Kelty Kid.
> >
> > In the forest service, they say that wilderness management is a misnomer.
> > We don't need to manage the wilderness, it has done fine for itself for
> > millenia. It is about managing PEOPLE, and it's true.
> >
> > How to manage the people will be the biggest challenge for the trail, I
> > think. But as is true for many things, more people does not make the
> > problem better.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 09:56:40 -0700
> From: Logan Siler <logandavidsiler1 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] weed on the trail
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CAG3Hm0phbwek=GpsBf1UBoxdsJaECkXeP2=R1=
> uyLe9n-RfLAQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> does anyone have tips for providing yourself with weed for the duration of
> the trail? I'm asking for educational purposes only.
>
> Logan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 56, Issue 11
> *************************************
>
More information about the Pct-L
mailing list