[pct-l] going stoveless
rickandurs at juno.com
rickandurs at juno.com
Fri Oct 14 19:36:37 CDT 2011
Well said, Ned. I could not imagine going without a stove. There is nothing like a hot drink to warm the inner oven on a cold morning, or day. To me, stoveless is unheard of, especially
when there are so many light weight options these days.
---------- Original Message ----------
From: <ned at mountaineducation.org>
To: "MARY E DAVISON" <pastormaryd at msn.com>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] going stoveless
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 17:08:28 -0700
I understand the interest, fascination, and value of going into the wild as
light as possible. Yes, carry the lightest stuff you can, but this doesn't
make sense in any emergency way.
>From the point of view of Search and Rescue, Survival Training, and
Wilderness Emergency Medical Training a stove that provides hot food and
drink is invaluable to treating hypothermia, one of the most common causes
of wilderness deaths. Sure, I can huddle in my tarp and shiver while eating
bars or some other cold food and drink. I can even do as Muir did and jump
up and down on one foot then the other to generate heat when wet and cold. I
could build a fire (where allowed) to generate heat and dry out, but why
when I could just carry a stove?
At the start of my day, while still laid out in my sleeping bag inside my
tent, I fire up my stove and enjoy a hot cup of coffee/hot chocolate. This
sort of warms up my innards and puts a smile on my face as I look forward to
my day. I look at my maps, write in my journal, and read a little of my
trail guide book as the hot water is heated further for some hot oatmeal.
Once I am sufficiently fueled and warmed up, packing up the tent in the snow
and the cold of morning is not so bad since my hands want to freeze against
the cold nylon and aluminum stakes of the tent.
The end of my day is much the same. I establish a nice campsite with a view
before the sun goes down. I place my water and stove near my bag, crawl in,
lean up against my pack (against a tree) or sleep in my tent, fire up the
stove, and cook a hearty dinner while watching the sun go down. I'll relax
in this way after a hard day pounding trail and let the warmth soothe my
aching muscles and joints. I'll get on the sat phone and call home just to
hear my wife's voice and tell her I love her and miss her (those times when
she can't come along). As the stars come out, I'll have some hot tea and
drift off to sleep.
For me, a stove is something I would not leave home without. Cooking has now
replaced watching a campfire. It's warmth is relaxing and the time waiting
for that hot meal is just joyous anticipation.
HYOH
"Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education
South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
P: 888-996-8333
F: 530-541-1456
C: 530-721-1551
http://www.mountaineducation.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "MARY E DAVISON" <pastormaryd at msn.com>
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] going stoveless
>
> I have been off finishing the AT and missed the discussion but am reading
> it now and wanted to add my 2 bits worth on going stoveless. I went
> stoveless on both my PCT and AT hikes this year (I am a long section
> hiker - finished the AT this year and only lack 80 miles to finish the PCT
> but knee replacement and snow prevented that little bit from being done.).
> I loved going stoveless. hat you need is calories in you, not necessarily
> hot drinks. And I agree with someone who wrote that cooking seemed to add
> time standing around being cold. I don't think I will ever take a stove
> again. Foods - Yes, bars, even if boring. But I added a chocolate whey
> drink mixed with powdered milk to my pro bar for breakfast. I always eat 3
> trail bars of various kinds mid-morning - cheese, crackers, jerky, dried
> fruit, almonds etc for lunch. For dinners I taste tested various Mountain
> HOuse meals mixed cold before hiking. My advice is that Turkey Tetrazinni,
> Beef Stroganoff, and both Chicken and Bee
> f Teriyaki with rice are excellent cold, especially the teriyaki meals
> which I liked BETTER cold than hot. Chilimac with beef and Spaghetti were
> passable - sort of like grabbing leftovers from the refrig. The cheese
> based dinners like Pasta Primavera and Lasagna get a thumbs down for cold.
> They do not reconstitute well from cold water although they would provide
> calories even if tasteless. I was very sad Pasta Primavera didn't work as
> it is mu favorite hot. Oh, I also found a tea (traditional medicinals
> echinacea elderberry) that tead up well cold in my bottle and tasted great
> with trail bars mid morning. My recomendation - taste test before
> deciding. But if you like it (I made a friend try one and she really liked
> it after saying that she would hate to go stoveless) and are not addicted
> to coffee, it does save the weight of stove, pot and fuel. I made the move
> because of a knee replacement but, as I said, I don't think I will ever
> carry a stove again. I PREFER stoveless.
> Medicare Pastor
> > From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net
>> Subject: Pct-L Digest, Vol 46, Issue 4
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 12:00:02 -0500
>>
>> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
>> pct-l at backcountry.net
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> pct-l-request at backcountry.net
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> pct-l-owner at backcountry.net
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Have South Africans done the PCT before? (Frank Dumville)
>> 2. Re: Pct-L Digest, Vol 46, Issue 3 (Krikor Y)
>> 3. Re: Have South Africans done the PCT before? (Sir Mixalot)
>> 4. Re: Have South Africans done the PCT before? (Jackie McDonnell)
>> 5. Re: Have South Africans done the PCT before? (Sir Mixalot)
>> 6. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (Jackie McDonnell)
>> 7. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (Gary Wright)
>> 8. Re: Have South Africans done the PCT before? (Matt Geis)
>> 9. trail closure in section A (jape1 at cox.net)
>> 10. Re: trail closure in section A (Gary Wright)
>> 11. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (chiefcowboy at verizon.net)
>> 12. Re: trail closure in section A (Jeff Eckert)
>> 13. Re: Hart's Pass bad weather....... (Andrea Dinsmore)
>> 14. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (Tim Gustafson)
>> 15. Re: THREE questions (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
>> 16. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (Tim Gustafson)
>> 17. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (Jackie McDonnell)
>> 18. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (Tim Gustafson)
>> 19. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (Scott Williams)
>> 20. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (Jackie McDonnell)
>> 21. yogis book (rob gratz)
>> 22. yogis book (enyapjr at comcast.net)
>> 23. Re: yogis book (Scott Bryce)
>> 24. yogis book (Palomino)
>> 25. Re: yogis book (chiefcowboy at verizon.net)
>> 26. Re: yogis book (Charles Doersch)
>> 27. Found SPOT and Update (lafferty1 at yahoo.com)
>> 28. lost spot (lafferty)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 10:28:45 -0700
>> From: "Frank Dumville" <fdumville at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Have South Africans done the PCT before?
>> To: "pct-l" <pct-l at backcountry.net>, <danmill at gmail.com>
>> Message-ID: <647556DC5A7F44D7B5A4DA91C2B6ABC4 at AdminPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> To answer your questions:
>>
>> South Africans
>> There is no official list of hikers so you won't be able to definitively
>> determine if you are the first South African to hike the trail.
>>
>> Keeping dry at stream crossings
>> In 2006 when I got to the Sierra I tried to keep my shoes and socks dry
>> for maybe 2 stream crossing before realizing that it was just not
>> practical. There were many places where the trail became a stream, twice
>> I almost stepped on a fish while on the trail tread. It becomes
>> impractical to take off your shoes. You'll also want something on your
>> feet for the major stream crossings. Let your feet dry out at breaks and
>> a night. This didn't cause any problems for my feet.
>>
>> Boots and Blisters
>> I did the trail over two years (1000 and 1700 mile sections) and
>> experienced no blisters. I used Vasque Breeze boots, 2 mid top and 1 low
>> top for the most of the trail. I have a hard time finding a good fit and
>> these boots work well for me. I started out with a little heavier boot in
>> the Sierra but switched back to the Breeze after a couple of weeks. I
>> think some other things helped eliminate blisters for me. I used light
>> weight liners with a light weight outer sock. My feet were well
>> conditioned before starting each hike. I live in San Diego so I was able
>> to train in the heat before starting the CA section at Campo. It seamed
>> to me that that people from the southwest tended to have a little easier
>> start because they were better adapted to hiking in hot weather.
>>
>> Snap
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 13:39:07 -0400
>> From: Krikor Y <kyeremian at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 46, Issue 3
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAGZ9RZnFYipxAEeCy+WU=J8orLvgcMuWgU5wEtzK167OweBj5w at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> In reference to question 1 about stove-less hiking, here is my
>> perspective
>> from a fire person...
>>
>> I learned stove-less at B.O.S.S. (boulder outdoor survival school) a
>> number
>> of years ago and have been using it ever since. The benefits are you pack
>> lighter, spend less money on fuel, you can burn away any trash, and
>> lighting
>> a fire is good for the spirit. The drawback is that it takes time to prep
>> all the little branches, to stoke the fire, and having to tend to the
>> fire
>> to ensure that your water boils quickly can be a hassle. However, you do
>> get
>> very good at it and it gets to become a very quick and efficient process
>> eventually. Wet conditions pose a threat for obvious reasons, but your
>> chances for a water-boiling fire are improved if you always carry
>> kindling.
>> Finally, you have to respect trail rules so if you should let coals burn
>> through (without dousing with water) so when cool you can grind them into
>> powder and throw them into vegetation (leave no trace). If you can,
>> always
>> try to burn in an existing fire ring. Overall, I pick stove or eat cold
>> food
>> if time is of the essence.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 1:00 PM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
>> > pct-l at backcountry.net
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > pct-l-request at backcountry.net
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > pct-l-owner at backcountry.net
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. THREE questions (Charles Doersch)
>> > 2. Girlscout (Ashley)
>> > 3. Re: THREE questions (Scott Williams)
>> > 4. Re: THREE questions (Melanie Clarke)
>> > 5. Re: Tents (Hayden Wilson)
>> > 6. Have South Africans done the PCT before? (Daniel Miller)
>> > 7. Planning a Trip for 2012 (Tim Gustafson)
>> > 8. Lightweight NOAA weather radio (mkwart at gci.net)
>> > 9. Re: Have South Africans done the PCT before? (Scott Williams)
>> > 10. Re: Have South Africans done the PCT before? (Yoshihiro Murakami)
>> > 11. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (Edward Anderson)
>> > 12. Re: Have South Africans done the PCT before? (Charles Doersch)
>> > 13. Re: Planning a Trip for 2012 (Sir Mixalot)
>> > 14. Re: THREE questions (Sir Mixalot)
>> > 15. Re: THREE questions (anita griffin)
>> > 16. Re: THREE questions (shon mcganty)
>> > 17. Trail Angeling at Hart's or Rainy Pass........ (Andrea Dinsmore)
>> > 18. Hart's Pass bad weather....... (Andrea Dinsmore)
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 12:33:49 -0600
>> > From: Charles Doersch <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: [pct-l] THREE questions
>> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID: <0B052B43-1F09-4C62-B089-E5CF1243EB7C at gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> >
>> > Hi everyone.
>> >
>> > I've got three questions for the group:
>> >
>> > 1. I read the occasional log journal reporting that going stoveless on
>> > the
>> > PCT can be a choice that simplifies the hike, though of course it
>> > eliminates
>> > certain comforting food/drink options. Anyone who has gone stoveless,
>> > I'd
>> > like to hear your thoughts on it if you're willing. The four of us are
>> > considering it.
>> > 2. What is the most common solution to posting journal entries? Sending
>> > written transcripts to friends who post them? or?
>> > 3. For any of the 2011 PCT thru-hikers who made it to Canada, any
>> > difficulties with border control? My understanding is that year after
>> > year
>> > it isn't an issue -- but there was a rumor that this year was
>> > different, and
>> > I thought I'd ask.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Charles & the gang.
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 14:13:18 -0700
>> > From: Ashley <djalowe at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: [pct-l] Girlscout
>> > To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > Message-ID: <857DCE5D-176B-4A37-B466-94DC318754C9 at gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> >
>> > Hello
>> > I was hoping someone could send me girlscouts address. He gave James
>> > and I
>> > (iguana) a ride to the border and we want to send him a post card.
>> > Thanks!
>> > Ashley
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPod
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 3
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 15:00:51 -0700
>> > From: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] THREE questions
>> > To: Charles Doersch <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CAGxcj112y+Djq735mNPg+PfVXNroefXnyXkbH-PrKsOH3PyPWA at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >
>> > I just crossed over at the monument 2 weeks ago and had no problems.
>> > As
>> > before, no one asked to see my Canadian entry permit. There were
>> > plenty of
>> > border patrol out on the US side however with automatic weapons, scopes
>> > and
>> > backpacks. Eight had gone in from Harts Pass just hours before we did,
>> > and
>> > although I didn't see them, a number of the folks we met on trail did.
>> > They
>> > reported pleasant encounters, but had been a bit shocked by seeing them
>> > in
>> > full regalia. They told the other hikers they were out looking for
>> > drug
>> > runners, which we also did not see any of.
>> >
>> > Shroomer
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 4
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 16:06:47 -0700
>> > From: Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] THREE questions
>> > To: Charles Doersch <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CAKeeMLcvPdX2kdjfQJ94-hm7ne3TMpRvAcjT7Ze0CnRKDHXW6Q at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >
>> > Dear Charles,
>> >
>> > I am only a section hiker until I retire in maybe 4 years. Anyway,
>> > this
>> > year, I did the first 323 miles without a stove and loved it. I had my
>> > breakfast cereal and dinners in a ziplock and I would just add water.
>> > For
>> > dinner, I would add the water about an hour or two before and place it
>> > at
>> > the top of my pack to collect warmth from the sun. The "Mountain
>> > House"
>> > was
>> > soft and completely hydrated. I carried an extra ziplock to double up
>> > the
>> > dinner bag from leaks. I plan to continue my section hikes without a
>> > stove
>> > and in 4 years I can decide if I want to do the entire PCT that way.
>> >
>> > When I used a stove for my JMT section, I ended up eating "crunchy"
>> > Mountain
>> > House anyway as I had to wait to heat up the water and didn't want to
>> > wait
>> > for it to become fully saturated. However, I had an "Esbit". Those
>> > Jet
>> > Boils are amazing, I have to admit and seem to do a better job.
>> >
>> > Toga
>> >
>> > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Charles Doersch
>> > <charles.doersch at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi everyone.
>> > >
>> > > I've got three questions for the group:
>> > >
>> > > 1. I read the occasional log journal reporting that going stoveless
>> > > on
>> > the
>> > > PCT can be a choice that simplifies the hike, though of course it
>> > eliminates
>> > > certain comforting food/drink options. Anyone who has gone stoveless,
>> > > I'd
>> > > like to hear your thoughts on it if you're willing. The four of us
>> > > are
>> > > considering it.
>> > > 2. What is the most common solution to posting journal entries?
>> > > Sending
>> > > written transcripts to friends who post them? or?
>> > > 3. For any of the 2011 PCT thru-hikers who made it to Canada, any
>> > > difficulties with border control? My understanding is that year after
>> > year
>> > > it isn't an issue -- but there was a rumor that this year was
>> > > different,
>> > and
>> > > I thought I'd ask.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Charles & the gang.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > >
>> > > List Archives:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 5
>> > Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 13:58:58 -0500
>> > From: Hayden Wilson <hydnwilson at hotmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Tents
>> > To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > Message-ID: <SNT135-W63BDD31EED56986CEA8B2D4F40 at phx.gbl>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> >
>> > I own not only a Lunar Duo, but also a Lunar Solo and a Six Moons
>> > Design
>> > Wild Oasis. I assume that you are shopping specifically for a two
>> > person
>> > tent. If not, the Duo is probably too large for one person and you
>> > might be
>> > better off with something like a Lunar Solo.
>> >
>> > For two people the Duo is a super tent. It has several features which
>> > I
>> > think are a pretty big deal when two of you are trying to function day
>> > in
>> > and day out on the trail. First, there are two openings and two
>> > vestibules.
>> > No crawling over one another to get in and out. Second, there is
>> > plenty of
>> > head room. Both of you can sit up to organize your gear at the same
>> > time.
>> > No waiting for someone else to get spread out or get gathered up
>> > before the
>> > other person begins. It is very convenient to have a tent that allows
>> > two
>> > people to cope with daily "tentkeeping" stuff at the same time. Also,
>> > because the high point in the tent is in the center where the doors are
>> > you
>> > can reach things at both the head and foot of the tent with a minimum
>> > of
>> > touching the sidewalls, ie., coming into contact with condensation.
>> > These
>> > may not seem like much, but I have been in other two person tents whose
>> > design makes harmonious living more difficult.
>> >
>> > Suprisingly, the Duo is also pretty good in wind. It certainly is not
>> > an
>> > alpine tent, but it deals with wind far better than one would think.
>> > IMO
>> > it is about as good a two person PCT shelter as you can get for the
>> > weight.
>> > But then again, that is just my opinion.
>> > Best of luck with whatever you choose and with your hike
>> >
>> > Hayden Wilson
>> > "Birdnut"
>> >
>> >
>> > > Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 22:26:18 -0700
>> > > From: danielhurt at ymail.com
>> > > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Subject: [pct-l] Tents
>> > >
>> > > I would like to know if any hikers have had use of any of these tents
>> > > and
>> > what they think of them on a thru hike north on the PCT; does anyone
>> > think
>> > one is better than another? I'm considering golite shangri-la 2, MSR
>> > twin
>> > sisters, six moon Lunar Duo, Tarp tent Cloudburst 2, or double rainbow.
>> > Any
>> > thoughts anyone has on any of these tents and how they hold up on the
>> > PCT
>> > would be helpful.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: "pct-l-request at backcountry.net" <pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
>> > > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:00 AM
>> > > Subject: Pct-L Digest, Vol 45, Issue 29
>> > >
>> > > Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
>> > > pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > >
>> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > > pct-l-request at backcountry.net
>> > >
>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > > pct-l-owner at backcountry.net
>> > >
>> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > > than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Today's Topics:
>> > >
>> > > 1. Re: PCT-L - Most Common Causes of Thru-Dropout
>> > > (Meridith Rosendahl)
>> > > 2. Re: time/distance (Joseph Anderson)
>> > > 3. Re: Reaction to Hikers (Yoshihiro Murakami)
>> > > 4. Re: PCT-L - Most Common Causes of Thru-Dropout (Nathan Miller)
>> > > 5. Re: Scissor Crossing to Snow Creek (Ground Pounder)
>> > > 6. Re: time/distance (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
>> > > 7. Re: time/distance (Austin Williams)
>> > > 8. Re: time/distance (Austin Williams)
>> > > 9. Re: Most Common Causes of Thru-Dropout (Austin Williams)
>> > > 10. Re: Scissor Crossing to Snow Creek (Derek Fohs)
>> > > 11. Here It Comes (tom aterno)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 1
>> > > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 10:17:18 -0700
>> > > From: Meridith Rosendahl <meridith.rosendahl at gmail.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-L - Most Common Causes of Thru-Dropout
>> > > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > >
>> > > <CAEJJFnpJ7h=vdMLWVgQNKQoUtgw_UE-VSS7fiiOaMi7wF4=zkQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > That's my girl! I love that woman. Maybe I could frame that
>> > > > quote.
>> > Hm....
>> > > Piper's Mom
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Message: 6
>> > > > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:48:28 -0700
>> > > > From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes
>> > > > <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> > > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-L - Most Common Causes of Thru-Dropout
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > I loved every minute. Well, okay, not every minute, but I
>> > > > look back on every minute fondly, even the minutes I hated.
>> > > >
>> > > > This probably wins the prize for the best hiking quote of
>> > > > the year so far!
>> > > >
>> > > > Yup! Way to go Piper! That one's repeatable.
>> > > > Shroomer
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 2
>> > > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 13:47:06 -0700
>> > > From: Joseph Anderson <joedaddy44 at gmail.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] time/distance
>> > > To: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
>> > > Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > >
>> > > <CA+YaG_EDj4tb_1XD8hKtLxsN5uL1rp1JEQYewPD6v9=afZ5bwQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> > >
>> > > I totally agree with Shroomer on that. Starting at Kennedy meadows
>> > > will
>> > give
>> > > you a gentle entrance to the Sierras at what is arguably the best
>> > > time of
>> > > year to do so. It was July 10th when I headed north from KM this
>> > > year. We
>> > > enjoyed perfect weather and much less snow than a month earlier when
>> > > the
>> > > thru hiker pack was there. You'll have a much more pleasant trip
>> > beginning
>> > > at KM than you would if you were to start from the border at that
>> > > time of
>> > > year. (IMHO)
>> > >
>> > > - Joe -
>> > >
>> > > Life is good!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 3
>> > > Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 08:15:04 +0900
>> > > From: Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Reaction to Hikers
>> > > To: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
>> > > Cc: Meridith Rosendahl <meridith.rosendahl at gmail.com>,
>> > > pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > >
>> > > <CAMCqdRvFBBc6Ltu0r_CAbSeWLG705uEmnB9N-pMm9eYAmkicKQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP
>> > >
>> > > I met three men at the Muir Hut this summer. They were very friendly,
>> > > but their body odor was too severe. My eyes felt a pain and was not
>> > > able to tolerate, even I was a few meters from them. I ran away from
>> > > them immediately. My wife also had the same experience. They might
>> > > be
>> > > famous professors or attorneys. I don't know.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2011/7/4 Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>:
>> > > > Very well said............I tell all my new friends how we fell
>> > > > into
>> > the
>> > > > hiker family. Jerry called me from Skykomish one day and asked if
>> > > > he
>> > could
>> > > > bring 4 hikers home. We had never heard of the Pacific Crest Trail.
>> > > > Had
>> > no
>> > > > idea who, what or where. The stink.....Holy Cow. Couldn't believe a
>> > human or
>> > > > animal could be so potent. Anyhow, these guys who looked like
>> > > > they'd
>> > been
>> > > > living under a bridge forever, turned out to be 3 attorneys and a
>> > > > Dr.
>> > That's
>> > > > when our education started. Don't judge a book by it's
>> > > > cover.....wait
>> > until
>> > > > they open their mouths. Well, most of the time that works. If you
>> > > > think
>> > > > someone is homeless.....you might be able to lend a hand. The dirt
>> > washes
>> > > > off......the friendship may last forever.
>> > > >
>> > > > Andrea Dinsmore
>> > > > PCT MOM
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > > >
>> > > > List Archives:
>> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Sincerely
>> > > --------------- --------------------------------------
>> > > Hiro ( Yoshihiro Murakami ???? )
>> > > Blogs http://completewalker.blogspot.com/
>> > > Photo http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
>> > > Backpacking since about 1980 in Japan
>> > > 2009 JMT, 2009, 2010, 2011(half).
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 4
>> > > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > From: Nathan Miller <erccmacfitheal at yahoo.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-L - Most Common Causes of Thru-Dropout
>> > > To: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>,
>> > > Tortoise73 at charter.net, jplynch <jplynch at crosslink.net>
>> > > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > > <1317261786.95355.YahooMailClassic at web120411.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> > >
>> > > > "I loved every minute. Well, okay,
>> > > > not every minute, but I
>> > > > look back on every minute fondly, even the minutes I
>> > > > hated."
>> > > > This probably wins the prize for the best hiking quote of
>> > > > the year so far!
>> > >
>> > > I totally agree! When I was postholing through the snow on Old Baldy
>> > > in
>> > June, after a couple of hours, I started thinking, "THIS SUCKS!!!!"
>> > Looking
>> > back on it, I now think, "You know, it really wasn't THAT bad."
>> > >
>> > > -Nate the Trail Zombie
>> > > Newberg, OR
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 5
>> > > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:45:41 -0700
>> > > From: "Ground Pounder" <groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Scissor Crossing to Snow Creek
>> > > To: "'Derek Fohs'" <derekfohs at hotmail.com>,
>> > > <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > > Message-ID: <005801cc7e51$e124fc50$a36ef4f0$@net>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>> > >
>> > > You only going to eat 3 times?
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:
>> > pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>> > > On Behalf Of Derek Fohs
>> > > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 5:26 PM
>> > > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Subject: [pct-l] Scissor Crossing to Snow Creek
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hello,
>> > > I'm starting my second segment of the PCT next month. I'll start at
>> > Scissor
>> > > Crossing outside of Julian and end at Hwy 10 outside of Palm Springs.
>> > Anyone
>> > > have tips or suggestions for this leg? Campsights, sidetrips, etc. My
>> > plan
>> > > is to forego stove, fuel, and cooking wares and get hot meals and
>> > resupply
>> > > cold food in Warner Springs, Hwy 74, and Idyllwild.
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Derek
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > >
>> > > List Archives:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 6
>> > > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:55:09 -0700
>> > > From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes
>> > > <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] time/distance
>> > > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > > <2DC210BA-9153-4F39-9AA2-C7A01FFA22D0 at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>> > >
>> > > Trailhacker attempted to hike from Cabazon to Cajon Pass over the 4th
>> > > of July weekend. When we arrived at the Section C trailhead outside
>> > > Cabazon at 8pm it was still 102 degrees (39 Celcius). I hiked with
>> > > him for a while and we slept on the trail near Teutang Canyon. It was
>> > > very hard to sleep when it was too hot to use a sleeping bag. I
>> > > couldn't even stand to have fabric cover my legs, yet big bugs would
>> > > flutter against my legs. After a few hours it cooled off enough to
>> > > drape a bivy sack over part of me. It was nice in the morning. I set
>> > > off back to the car and bid good-bye to Trailhacker who continued on.
>> > >
>> > > I drove home to comfortable Santa Barbara and took a nap. Sometime in
>> > > the afternoon I thought maybe I should check my phone messages just
>> > > in case. There was a message from Trailhacker. He sounded like he was
>> > > in dire straights. He sounded weak and his voice was shaky and
>> > > exhausted. He said he was turning back. It was just too hot. He
>> > > really sounded like he might die. I rushed back to the trail and
>> > > worried that I had been irresponsible enough to let him go and kill
>> > > himself. Santa Barbara is 3.5 hours away from Cabazon.
>> > >
>> > > When I got to Cabazon I got a hotel and turned on the air conditioner
>> > > hoping to create a cool place to take Trailhacker, if I could find
>> > > him. It was 120 degrees. (49 Celcius). It was way too hot for me to
>> > > go out on the trail and look for him.
>> > >
>> > > Long story short (too late, I know) he didn't make it out of there
>> > > until the next morning. It had been 125 degrees (52 C) where he was
>> > > and he recognized that he had symptoms of heat exhaustion so he
>> > > backtracked to Whitewater creek where he set up a sun shade and
>> > > soaked in the creek all day. He waited until morning when it was
>> > > cooler to return to the trailhead.
>> > >
>> > > All this is to say that July is probably not the best time to hike
>> > > the Southern California portion of the trail. There are pieces you
>> > > could do, such as Mt. San Jacinto and the mountains around Big Bear
>> > > and Wrightwood, but these sections are very short. You may get lucky
>> > > and the hottest it will be is 95, or you could have a heat wave like
>> > > Trailhacker got and get 125 degrees. He could have done this hike a
>> > > week earlier or later no problem. He likes it hot. But not THAT hot!
>> > >
>> > > If you really want to start your hike at the Mexican border it's best
>> > > to do it in April or May. It's delightful then. Usually comfortable
>> > > temperatures with warm days and cold nights and pretty flowers even
>> > > in the desert.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hello,
>> > > >
>> > > > I'm new to the site. I'm planning to start a first leg of the PCT
>> > > > next summer from the Mex border, probably early July and hike
>> > > > through late August. Can anyone tell me how much of the trail I can
>> > > > cover during that time (about 50 days). I'm a relatively
>> > > > experienced hiker, used to steep climbs up the Alps; I live in
>> > > > Grenoble, France.
>> > > >
>> > > > ?
>> > > > Pat
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 7
>> > > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 22:42:11 -0700
>> > > From: Austin Williams <austinwilliams123 at gmail.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] time/distance
>> > > To: patrick moreno <patrickfmoreno at yahoo.fr>, pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > >
>> > > <CAGOWXFSym68HuoqSGw+RhQD4roLajkv0UY0gZySwacYx7cScbQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> > >
>> > > My best guess: 50 days = 860 miles. In heat like that, though,
>> > > perhaps
>> > 15%
>> > > less due to lots of extra "hiding in whatever shade you can find"
>> > > time.
>> > :)
>> > > Sounds like fun. Bring more water than you think you'll need.
>> > >
>> > > Austin Williams
>> > > www.PlanYourHike.com <http://www.planyourhike.com/>
>> > > Info on PCT Gear, Resupply Points, Maps, Thru hiking Movies, etc.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 10:55 PM, patrick moreno <
>> > patrickfmoreno at yahoo.fr>wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hello,
>> > > >
>> > > > I'm new to the site. I'm planning to start a first leg of the PCT
>> > > > next
>> > > > summer from the Mex border, probably early July and hike through
>> > > > late
>> > > > August. Can anyone tell me how much of the trail I can cover during
>> > that
>> > > > time (about 50 days). I'm a relatively experienced hiker, used to
>> > > > steep
>> > > > climbs up the Alps; I live in Grenoble, France.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Pat
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > > >
>> > > > List Archives:
>> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 8
>> > > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 22:42:44 -0700
>> > > From: Austin Williams <austinwilliams123 at gmail.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] time/distance
>> > > To: patrick moreno <patrickfmoreno at yahoo.fr>, pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > >
>> > > <CAGOWXFTUEBVp_1dvdr9QCJ_xpznYPmJYLxJLTo_7mXHer28qKw at mail.gmail.com>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> > >
>> > > You might consider heading southbound if yer starting that late....
>> > that's
>> > > what I would do.
>> > >
>> > > Austin Williams
>> > >
>> > > www.PlanYourHike.com <http://www.planyourhike.com/>
>> > > Info on PCT Gear, Resupply Points, Maps, Thru hiking Movies, etc.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 10:42 PM, Austin Williams <
>> > > austinwilliams123 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > My best guess: 50 days = 860 miles. In heat like that, though,
>> > perhaps
>> > > > 15% less due to lots of extra "hiding in whatever shade you can
>> > > > find"
>> > > > time. :)
>> > > > Sounds like fun. Bring more water than you think you'll need.
>> > > >
>> > > > Austin Williams
>> > > > www.PlanYourHike.com <http://www.planyourhike.com/>
>> > > > Info on PCT Gear, Resupply Points, Maps, Thru hiking Movies, etc.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 10:55 PM, patrick moreno <
>> > patrickfmoreno at yahoo.fr>wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> Hello,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I'm new to the site. I'm planning to start a first leg of the PCT
>> > > >> next
>> > > >> summer from the Mex border, probably early July and hike through
>> > > >> late
>> > > >> August. Can anyone tell me how much of the trail I can cover
>> > > >> during
>> > that
>> > > >> time (about 50 days). I'm a relatively experienced hiker, used to
>> > steep
>> > > >> climbs up the Alps; I live in Grenoble, France.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Pat
>> > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > > >> Pct-L mailing list
>> > > >> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > >> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > > >>
>> > > >> List Archives:
>> > > >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > >> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > >> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 9
>> > > Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 00:52:42 -0700
>> > > From: Austin Williams <austinwilliams123 at gmail.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Most Common Causes of Thru-Dropout
>> > > To: Jeff Judd <frotiss_lupus at yahoo.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > >
>> > > <CAGOWXFR4GG7oHacGhAkKKDUuUYOhLzY1v9S=TfPmH8vBriRr7A at mail.gmail.com>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> > >
>> > > I'd like to add: take zero days even if you don't think you need
>> > > them. I
>> > > did 1600 miles with only 3 zero days and (though I didn't realize it
>> > > at
>> > the
>> > > time) that really, really affected my attitude and spirit in a
>> > > negative
>> > > way. I was literally overworked and didn't know it. Looking back I
>> > > can
>> > see
>> > > the signs, but at the time I was blind to them.
>> > >
>> > > If yer feeling aggro and irritable and like yer not having fun...
>> > > that's
>> > a
>> > > sure sign that you need a zero day or two.
>> > > I also agree with the previous poster that hiking (especially solo)
>> > > can
>> > be a
>> > > very emotional experience. I remember crying a few times on the
>> > > trail.
>> > The
>> > > first time was when I injured my ankle. I didn't cry because of the
>> > pain...
>> > > I cried (sobbed like a little baby) because I thought it meant my
>> > > trip
>> > was
>> > > going to be over. That all that planning and dreaming, and
>> > > preparing,
>> > and
>> > > anticipation was all for naught. That was a very hard day. (I spent
>> > half a
>> > > day with my ankle soaking in a cold creek before finally hobbling on.
>> > > It
>> > > actually healed rather quickly.)
>> > >
>> > > The loneliness of a solo hike hit me at the strangest time. I actual
>> > didn't
>> > > *feel* alone *most* of the time. I am a very independent person and
>> > usually
>> > > prefer to be by myself than around others. It wasn't until I either
>> > > (a)
>> > > had a near death experience, or (b) was taking in a breathtaking
>> > > view,
>> > that
>> > > I felt alone. During the near death experiences (almost sliding off
>> > > a
>> > cliff
>> > > (x6), sliding downhill towards a freezing lake, having half my body
>> > > fall
>> > > into a crevasse, falling down a waterfall when lost several miles off
>> > trail,
>> > > yada yada yada) I became instantly and vividly aware that I was
>> > > alone,
>> > and
>> > > that only I could save myself. (A very sobering thought). Looking
>> > > back,
>> > > these were some of my favorite moments. I wouldn't want to repeat
>> > > *any*
>> > of
>> > > them, but they really let me "test my metal".
>> > >
>> > > But it was when I had all that beauty and wonder and magic all around
>> > > me
>> > --
>> > > as far as the eye can see and as deep as the heart can feel -- that's
>> > when I
>> > > really felt the most alone. I was so sad that I had no one present
>> > > to
>> > share
>> > > it with (a rare feeling for me). Pictures do no justice. I would
>> > > have
>> > > given anything to share those moments with my wife, or friends, or
>> > > siblings.... anyone. It's a very strange feeling being in awe of the
>> > beauty
>> > > and wonder that our wilderness inspires -- feeling as though you are
>> > right
>> > > in the middle of the most perfect place in the most perfect time that
>> > > has
>> > > ever existed-- and at the same time feeling like you are the only
>> > > person
>> > > that is left on the planet. Entirely alone. Those moments are mine,
>> > > and
>> > > I'll never forget them. But it would have been nice to share a few
>> > > of
>> > them
>> > > with loved ones.
>> > >
>> > > yeah, I cried... like a little baby...
>> > >
>> > > where was I going with this? Oh, right. Why people leave the
>> > > trail....
>> > I
>> > > think sometimes one's emotions can weigh more than their gear.
>> > >
>> > > Yet another reason: sometimes people get "their fill" of whatever it
>> > > is
>> > they
>> > > are looking for (adventure, solitude, distance from modern society,
>> > > exercise, the wilderness experience, bragging rights, simplicity,
>> > > etc)
>> > > before they reach their original destination. I hiked from Canada to
>> > > Kennedy Meadows, and I took one look at the last leg of the SoBo hike
>> > (the
>> > > desert) and thought "nah...". I was uninspired (the desert in
>> > > September
>> > is
>> > > not nearly as awesome as it is in April, let me tell you....).
>> > >
>> > > Just remember, it's easy to get so blinded by the goal that you
>> > > forget
>> > why
>> > > you set it. If you do some soul searching you'll probably find that
>> > > real
>> > > purpose of the thru hike isn't simply to get from Mexico to Canada
>> > > (if
>> > > that's all it was you'd just take a bus, right?). I like to think of
>> > > the
>> > > thru hike as a *means* rather than an *end*. Our origin is our
>> > > present
>> > > self. Our destination is our future, stronger, wiser, more
>> > > courageous
>> > and
>> > > confident self. The PCT is the path from origin to destination.
>> > >
>> > > Hakuna Matata,
>> > >
>> > > Austin Williams
>> > >
>> > > www.PlanYourHike.com <http://www.planyourhike.com/>
>> > > Info on PCT Gear, Resupply Points, Maps, Thru hiking Movies, etc.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Jeff Judd <frotiss_lupus at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I just want to give a gargantuan thank you to everyone who
>> > > > responded to
>> > > > this inquiry both on and off list. You've all given me a wealth of
>> > > > different angles from which to consider this undertaking. Your
>> > personal
>> > > > experiences will be very helpful in examining my psyche on trail I
>> > think.
>> > > > It all comes down to the individual it seems like. By which I mean
>> > both
>> > > > individual fitness and proneness to injury, and the mindset one has
>> > both
>> > > > going into it and on trail. All we can ever do is plan and prepare
>> > > > to
>> > the
>> > > > fullest extent possible, then understand that the best laid schemes
>> > > > of
>> > mice
>> > > > and men oft go awry.
>> > > >
>> > > > With that being said I think my wife and I definitely need to get
>> > > > some
>> > > > additional experience on snow travel and stream crossings. We
>> > > > don't
>> > get the
>> > > > chance to practice that much here in San Diego. Also, whoever it
>> > > > was
>> > that
>> > > > gave me the advice to train as much as possible on long, uneven
>> > > > terrain
>> > to
>> > > > help my joints and ligaments become more resistant to repetitive
>> > > > motion
>> > > > injuries, that was a gem.
>> > > >
>> > > > Much love,
>> > > >
>> > > > Jeff
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > > >
>> > > > List Archives:
>> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 10
>> > > Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 03:07:14 +0000
>> > > From: Derek Fohs <derekfohs at hotmail.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Scissor Crossing to Snow Creek
>> > > To: <groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > > Message-ID: <BAY155-W41CE158FAA089A6404F013A0F60 at phx.gbl>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Maybe if I was going to sprint the whole way. Only three hot meals
>> > > where
>> > I can get them. The rest of the menu will be salami, cheese, cliff
>> > bars,
>> > avos, hardboiled eggs, trailmix, beef jerkey, chocolate, etc.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > From: groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net
>> > > > To: derekfohs at hotmail.com; pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > > Subject: RE: [pct-l] Scissor Crossing to Snow Creek
>> > > > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 19:45:41 -0700
>> > > >
>> > > > You only going to eat 3 times?
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:
>> > pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>> > > > On Behalf Of Derek Fohs
>> > > > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 5:26 PM
>> > > > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > > Subject: [pct-l] Scissor Crossing to Snow Creek
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Hello,
>> > > > I'm starting my second segment of the PCT next month. I'll start at
>> > Scissor
>> > > > Crossing outside of Julian and end at Hwy 10 outside of Palm
>> > > > Springs.
>> > Anyone
>> > > > have tips or suggestions for this leg? Campsights, sidetrips, etc.
>> > > > My
>> > plan
>> > > > is to forego stove, fuel, and cooking wares and get hot meals and
>> > resupply
>> > > > cold food in Warner Springs, Hwy 74, and Idyllwild.
>> > > > Thanks,
>> > > > Derek
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > > >
>> > > > List Archives:
>> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Message: 11
>> > > Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 04:35:24 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > From: tom aterno <nitnoid1 at yahoo.com>
>> > > Subject: [pct-l] Here It Comes
>> > > To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > > Message-ID:
>> > > <1317296124.88850.YahooMailNeo at web160704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>> > >
>> > > For all you JMT and?northern?PCT backpackers, winter will potentially
>> > will?arrive early next week.
>> > > ?
>> > > http://forecast.weather.gov/wwamap/wwatxtget.php?cwa=vef&wwa=specialweather
>> > > statement
>> > > ?
>> > > As Ground Pounder Bill says, "Be Prepared."
>> > > ?
>> > > Have fun in the snow.? It's just rain, rain and more rain?on the east
>> > coast.
>> > > ?
>> > > ?
>> > > ?
>> > > The Incredible Bulk
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > >
>> > > List Archives:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > >
>> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > >
>> > > End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 45, Issue 29
>> > > *************************************
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > >
>> > > List Archives:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 6
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 02:31:42 +0200
>> > From: Daniel Miller <danmill at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: [pct-l] Have South Africans done the PCT before?
>> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CAPAYmQSrNO5CC35pzietqANG04AtASOiHS9vr=Yn_o=x4fFeog at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >
>> > Hey folks
>> >
>> > I am planning on doing the PCT starting April next year with a friend.
>> > We're
>> > both from South Africa and were wondering if any South Africans have
>> > done
>> > it
>> > before... Where could we find out?
>> >
>> > I also have a question about crossing rivers. Should you take off your
>> > shoes
>> > and socks so that they are dry, which is 10x more comfortable than
>> > soggy
>> > feet. Or, should you just mission through any river and let them dry
>> > out...
>> > Or is it a bit of both?
>> >
>> > Those who never got any blisters - what shoes were you using and how
>> > many
>> > did you go through?
>> >
>> > Thanks for your help,
>> > Daniel
>> >
>> > ps - is anyone going to be in Whistler this season? I'll be working
>> > there
>> > and would love to meet up with any PCT-affiliates.
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 7
>> > Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 19:24:30 -0700
>> > From: Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com>
>> > Subject: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CACMcHMdw+OzWnFEg2jk_R=VMQgDSrK6zBPMCuiSkuFVhbsCF9w at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm planning on hiking the PCT in sections starting in April of 2012
>> > at the Mexican border. I was planning on flying into San Diego, and
>> > then somehow getting from the airport to the trail head, and then
>> > hiking to Idyllwild over the course of about 2 weeks, and then somehow
>> > getting from Idyllwild back to the San Diego airport.
>> >
>> > So, I have three questions:
>> >
>> > 1. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to get from
>> > San Diego to the trail head?
>> >
>> > 2. Is two weeks a sufficient amount of time for this trip? Craig's
>> > PCT Planner says "yes", with room to spare, but I was wondering if
>> > anyone had any recommendations one way or the other?
>> >
>> > 3. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to get from
>> > Idyllwild back to San Diego airport?
>> >
>> > I checked Super Shuttle, and they appear to go from San Diego Airport
>> > to Campo, and from Idyllwild to Long Beach Airport (which would be
>> > fine), but it's like $190 for the trip from San Diego to Campo, and
>> > like $290 for the trip from Idyllwild to Long Beach. That's actually
>> > more than the air fare to get to either airport. So, I was hoping
>> > that there was a less expensive way.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Tim Gustafson
>> > tjg at tgustafson.com
>> > http://tgustafson.com/
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 8
>> > Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 16:08:03 -0800 (AKDT)
>> > From: mkwart at gci.net
>> > Subject: [pct-l] Lightweight NOAA weather radio
>> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <363751202.804901.1317600483782.JavaMail.mkwart at mail.gci.net>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no
>> >
>> > Hi:
>> >
>> > I'm looking for the most lightweight radio I can get that can tune into
>> > the NOAA weather radio channels--are there any MP3s that do this?
>> > Ideally, I want an MP3 player for playing music as well as AM/FM
>> > reception and can get NOAA weather channels. Is there such a beast?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Fireweed
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 9
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 18:48:40 -0700
>> > From: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Have South Africans done the PCT before?
>> > To: Daniel Miller <danmill at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CAGxcj10_5AoW5qzw2EF2vYy+V08oNL2i+eTFTBnUnv9A132k7g at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >
>> > Hey Daniel,
>> > If you know it's only one stream crossing for a long ways, then by all
>> > means
>> > take your shoes off and keep them dry. In the High Sierra and northern
>> > Sierra, the stream crossings are so frequent that you would spend all
>> > day
>> > changing shoes and socks. At places they are just minutes apart, over
>> > and
>> > over. We started out keeping dry, but quickly went to just splashing
>> > on
>> > through and continued doing that for about a 1,000 miles or more. Even
>> > in
>> > the snow my shoes dried quickly. When you hike fast, the cool feet can
>> > actually be pleasant. No jungle rot through the snowy sections, but
>> > when
>> > we
>> > got north of Tahoe and it was wet and warm, we all got foot fungus and
>> > had
>> > to resort to anti fungal creams and powders which worked well.
>> >
>> > I got no blisters, something that still blows my mind. I used Montrail
>> > Sabinas. I love them as they have a very wide toe box, and saw them on
>> > several of the thrus I met just a few weeks ago while hiking the
>> > several
>> > hundred miles before Manning Park. I didn't meet any South Africans on
>> > trail last year, but there are probably some out there.
>> >
>> > Shroomer
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 10
>> > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:15:03 +0900
>> > From: Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Have South Africans done the PCT before?
>> > To: Daniel Miller <danmill at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CAMCqdRt5m8zOzrep9Q+zuszhqtTOcFUb0Etg-i3zo4dyH7=usA at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP
>> >
>> > Dear Daniel
>> >
>> > I usually ford with boots. In cold weather, it is a big problem to
>> > treat wet boots. So, I have used neoprene socks this summer. It works
>> > well. Consider as a spare. http://bit.ly/mZrGEY
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2011/10/2 Daniel Miller <danmill at gmail.com>:
>> > > Hey folks
>> > >
>> > > I am planning on doing the PCT starting April next year with a
>> > > friend.
>> > We're
>> > > both from South Africa and were wondering if any South Africans have
>> > > done
>> > it
>> > > before... Where could we find out?
>> > >
>> > > I also have a question about crossing rivers. Should you take off
>> > > your
>> > shoes
>> > > and socks so that they are dry, which is 10x more comfortable than
>> > > soggy
>> > > feet. Or, should you just mission through any river and let them dry
>> > out...
>> > > Or is it a bit of both?
>> > >
>> > > Those who never got any blisters - what shoes were you using and how
>> > > many
>> > > did you go through?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for your help,
>> > > Daniel
>> > >
>> > > ps - is anyone going to be in Whistler this season? I'll be working
>> > > there
>> > > and would love to meet up with any PCT-affiliates.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > >
>> > > List Archives:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sincerely
>> > --------------- --------------------------------------
>> > Hiro ( Yoshihiro Murakami ???? )
>> > Blogs http://completewalker.blogspot.com/
>> > Photo http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
>> > Backpacking since about 1980 in Japan
>> > 2009 JMT, 2009, 2010, 2011(half).
>> > ------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 11
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 20:22:12 -0700 (PDT)
>> > From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> > To: Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com>, "pct-l at backcountry.net"
>> > <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <1317612132.87089.YahooMailNeo at web111607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>> >
>> > Use your thumb, signs, and a big smile. Make up all of your signs
>> > before
>> > you start naming towns along your proposed route - always less than
>> > about 50
>> > miles apart. That worked for me.
>> > ?
>> > MendoRider
>> >
>> > From: Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com>
>> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 7:24 PM
>> > Subject: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm planning on hiking the PCT in sections starting in April of 2012
>> > at the Mexican border.? I was planning on flying into San Diego, and
>> > then somehow getting from the airport to the trail head, and then
>> > hiking to Idyllwild over the course of about 2 weeks, and then somehow
>> > getting from Idyllwild back to the San Diego airport.
>> >
>> > So, I have three questions:
>> >
>> > 1. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to get from
>> > San Diego to the trail head?
>> >
>> > 2. Is two weeks a sufficient amount of time for this trip?? Craig's
>> > PCT Planner says "yes", with room to spare, but I was wondering if
>> > anyone had any recommendations one way or the other?
>> >
>> > 3. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to get from
>> > Idyllwild back to San Diego airport?
>> >
>> > I checked Super Shuttle, and they appear to go from San Diego Airport
>> > to Campo, and from Idyllwild to Long Beach Airport (which would be
>> > fine), but it's like $190 for the trip from San Diego to Campo, and
>> > like $290 for the trip from Idyllwild to Long Beach.? That's actually
>> > more than the air fare to get to either airport.? So, I was hoping
>> > that there was a less expensive way.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Tim Gustafson
>> > tjg at tgustafson.com
>> > http://tgustafson.com/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 12
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:44:33 -0600
>> > From: Charles Doersch <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Have South Africans done the PCT before?
>> > To: Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CADH_B_hEzAwcKkqFKotKqcDBj74L2W0yyeEH1nJ9g1FXw-Hgzw at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> >
>> > Daniel,
>> >
>> > I recommend Yogi's book on the PCT ~~ it'll answer many many many
>> > questions
>> > about things you've never even thought about, as well as those things
>> > you
>> > have -- like about shoes & fording &cet (though there's not yet a
>> > section
>> > on
>> > South Africans, so that question she won't be answering). :-D We've
>> > been
>> > doing exactly what she recommends for shoes and we never get blisters
>> > on
>> > our
>> > section hikes on the Colorado Trail ... and on our daily climbing up
>> > Bear
>> > Peak and back.
>> >
>> > Next year we'll be on the PCT, too.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Charles & the gang.
>> >
>> > 2011/10/2 Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>
>> >
>> > > Dear Daniel
>> > >
>> > > I usually ford with boots. In cold weather, it is a big problem to
>> > > treat wet boots. So, I have used neoprene socks this summer. It works
>> > > well. Consider as a spare. http://bit.ly/mZrGEY
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2011/10/2 Daniel Miller <danmill at gmail.com>:
>> > > > Hey folks
>> > > >
>> > > > I am planning on doing the PCT starting April next year with a
>> > > > friend.
>> > > We're
>> > > > both from South Africa and were wondering if any South Africans
>> > > > have
>> > done
>> > > it
>> > > > before... Where could we find out?
>> > > >
>> > > > I also have a question about crossing rivers. Should you take off
>> > > > your
>> > > shoes
>> > > > and socks so that they are dry, which is 10x more comfortable than
>> > soggy
>> > > > feet. Or, should you just mission through any river and let them
>> > > > dry
>> > > out...
>> > > > Or is it a bit of both?
>> > > >
>> > > > Those who never got any blisters - what shoes were you using and
>> > > > how
>> > many
>> > > > did you go through?
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks for your help,
>> > > > Daniel
>> > > >
>> > > > ps - is anyone going to be in Whistler this season? I'll be working
>> > there
>> > > > and would love to meet up with any PCT-affiliates.
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > > >
>> > > > List Archives:
>> > > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Sincerely
>> > > --------------- --------------------------------------
>> > > Hiro ( Yoshihiro Murakami ???? )
>> > > Blogs http://completewalker.blogspot.com/
>> > > Photo http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
>> > > Backpacking since about 1980 in Japan
>> > > 2009 JMT, 2009, 2010, 2011(half).
>> > > ------------------------------------------------------
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > >
>> > > List Archives:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 13
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 23:26:03 -0700
>> > From: Sir Mixalot <atetuna at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> > To: Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com>
>> > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CAKhNvBVLH+c8=5Eh3F8P=O4fmxd7SLxd4aF9--90KE_0DyqY2Q at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >
>> > 1. Get Yogi's book. It has phone numbers for trail angels that may be
>> > able
>> > to give you a ride, and if that doesn't work out, it also has
>> > information
>> > for taking public transportation.
>> >
>> > 2. That depends on you, and somewhat on weather. I'd say chances are
>> > high
>> > that that's enough time.
>> >
>> > 3. Why not take the tram on Mt San Jacinto down into Palm Springs and
>> > fly
>> > out from there? I think the ride down the tram is free.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 7:24 PM, Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > I'm planning on hiking the PCT in sections starting in April of 2012
>> > > at the Mexican border. I was planning on flying into San Diego, and
>> > > then somehow getting from the airport to the trail head, and then
>> > > hiking to Idyllwild over the course of about 2 weeks, and then
>> > > somehow
>> > > getting from Idyllwild back to the San Diego airport.
>> > >
>> > > So, I have three questions:
>> > >
>> > > 1. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to get from
>> > > San Diego to the trail head?
>> > >
>> > > 2. Is two weeks a sufficient amount of time for this trip? Craig's
>> > > PCT Planner says "yes", with room to spare, but I was wondering if
>> > > anyone had any recommendations one way or the other?
>> > >
>> > > 3. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to get from
>> > > Idyllwild back to San Diego airport?
>> > >
>> > > I checked Super Shuttle, and they appear to go from San Diego Airport
>> > > to Campo, and from Idyllwild to Long Beach Airport (which would be
>> > > fine), but it's like $190 for the trip from San Diego to Campo, and
>> > > like $290 for the trip from Idyllwild to Long Beach. That's actually
>> > > more than the air fare to get to either airport. So, I was hoping
>> > > that there was a less expensive way.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks!
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > > Tim Gustafson
>> > > tjg at tgustafson.com
>> > > http://tgustafson.com/
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > >
>> > > List Archives:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 14
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 23:36:02 -0700
>> > From: Sir Mixalot <atetuna at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] THREE questions
>> > To: Charles Doersch <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CAKhNvBUw_e9BgG0eCor8DhqPT969B6A6e7qnxP0PJOrm4RX5hQ at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >
>> > 1. I haven't finished a thru hike yet, but I've been hiking stoveless
>> > for
>> > the last two years. I do a powdered drink consisting of a custom
>> > blend. I
>> > absolutely love it because it maximizes my hiking time, reduces weight
>> > and
>> > bulk, prevents me from being too far off on nutrition and hydration,
>> > and
>> > makes it very easy to know my macronutrient intake. A third of my
>> > daily
>> > calories (4500) comes from gorp.
>> >
>> > 2. I'd guess that using a computer in trail towns is #1, followed by
>> > using
>> > a
>> > smart phone. Last time I found keeping a journal too tedious. If I
>> > attempt
>> > to keep a journal again, I'll only use a computer in trail towns, and
>> > if
>> > I'm
>> > lucky, I'll send voicemail journals for someone at home to transcribe.
>> >
>> > 3. I don't why border patrol would be a problem for north bound hikers.
>> > They have said they'd bust south bound hikers crossing into the United
>> > States from Canada.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Charles Doersch
>> > <charles.doersch at gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi everyone.
>> > >
>> > > I've got three questions for the group:
>> > >
>> > > 1. I read the occasional log journal reporting that going stoveless
>> > > on
>> > the
>> > > PCT can be a choice that simplifies the hike, though of course it
>> > eliminates
>> > > certain comforting food/drink options. Anyone who has gone stoveless,
>> > > I'd
>> > > like to hear your thoughts on it if you're willing. The four of us
>> > > are
>> > > considering it.
>> > > 2. What is the most common solution to posting journal entries?
>> > > Sending
>> > > written transcripts to friends who post them? or?
>> > > 3. For any of the 2011 PCT thru-hikers who made it to Canada, any
>> > > difficulties with border control? My understanding is that year after
>> > year
>> > > it isn't an issue -- but there was a rumor that this year was
>> > > different,
>> > and
>> > > I thought I'd ask.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Charles & the gang.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > >
>> > > List Archives:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 15
>> > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:10:48 -0600
>> > From: anita griffin <anita.griffin at live.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] THREE questions
>> > To: <charles.doersch at gmail.com>, PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > Message-ID: <BLU157-W508E16AF705B335631761E85FA0 at phx.gbl>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> >
>> > We are section hikers and do not use a stove. We have been 2 weeks
>> > between
>> > hot meals and did not suffer.
>> >
>> > Breakfast: Instant breakfast with instant coffee and dry milk portioned
>> > at
>> > home, granola and dry milk - add water when ready to eat
>> > Lunch: Bars, nuts, dry fruit, etc
>> > Dinner: I make my own dehydrated meals (some as simple as canned
>> > chili),
>> > package in zip locks, and add water an hour or so before eating
>> >
>> > > From: charles.doersch at gmail.com
>> > > Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 12:33:49 -0600
>> > > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > > Subject: [pct-l] THREE questions
>> > >
>> > > Hi everyone.
>> > >
>> > > I've got three questions for the group:
>> > >
>> > > 1. I read the occasional log journal reporting that going stoveless
>> > > on
>> > the PCT can be a choice that simplifies the hike, though of course it
>> > eliminates certain comforting food/drink options. Anyone who has gone
>> > stoveless, I'd like to hear your thoughts on it if you're willing. The
>> > four
>> > of us are considering it.
>> > > 2. What is the most common solution to posting journal entries?
>> > > Sending
>> > written transcripts to friends who post them? or?
>> > > 3. For any of the 2011 PCT thru-hikers who made it to Canada, any
>> > difficulties with border control? My understanding is that year after
>> > year
>> > it isn't an issue -- but there was a rumor that this year was
>> > different, and
>> > I thought I'd ask.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Charles & the gang.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > >
>> > > List Archives:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 16
>> > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 08:53:03 -0700 (PDT)
>> > From: shon mcganty <smcganty at yahoo.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] THREE questions
>> > To: Charles Doersch <charles.doersch at gmail.com>,
>> > "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <1317657183.67928.YahooMailNeo at web112619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>> >
>> > 1) I go non-stove for all my hikes, including three thru-hikes.? Many
>> > gringe when they think of eating bars, but that's the main food group I
>> > use.? There's so many brands out there to mix it up.? I find it easy to
>> > predict?how much?to bring, based on how many meals = how many bars,
>> > plus
>> > other fun snack items.
>> > ?
>> > 2) no experience
>> > ?
>> > 3) northbound hikers have no problems entering Canada (that I've ever
>> > heard
>> > of).? For SOBO's, "They" say the U.S. will crack down on any entry into
>> > the
>> > U.S. from any site other than an official border crossing.
>> > ?
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: Charles Doersch <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
>> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 11:33 AM
>> > Subject: [pct-l] THREE questions
>> >
>> > Hi everyone.
>> >
>> > I've got three questions for the group:
>> >
>> > 1. I read the occasional log journal reporting that going stoveless on
>> > the
>> > PCT can be a choice that simplifies the hike, though of course it
>> > eliminates
>> > certain comforting food/drink options. Anyone who has gone stoveless,
>> > I'd
>> > like to hear your thoughts on it if you're willing. The four of us are
>> > considering it.
>> > 2. What is the most common solution to posting journal entries? Sending
>> > written transcripts to friends who post them? or?
>> > 3. For any of the 2011 PCT thru-hikers who made it to Canada, any
>> > difficulties with border control? My understanding is that year after
>> > year
>> > it isn't an issue -- but there was a rumor that this year was
>> > different, and
>> > I thought I'd ask.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Charles & the gang.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 17
>> > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 09:15:17 -0700
>> > From: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
>> > Subject: [pct-l] Trail Angeling at Hart's or Rainy Pass........
>> > To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CAD=4stG92TqEGu+2mEYAPMM5qmk3HhQsFzjajwiHOJkRKXF3xA at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> >
>> > Who's up doing trail angeling at Hart's or Rainy Pass ? Got a message
>> > about
>> > some hypothermic hikers in bad shape. Did anyone else get an email or
>> > Face
>> > Book message about this ?
>> >
>> > PCT MOM
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 18
>> > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 09:29:12 -0700
>> > From: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
>> > Subject: [pct-l] Hart's Pass bad weather.......
>> > To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> > Message-ID:
>> >
>> > <CAD=4stG+M0AbWUG+fwzWx3JiZB-7dy1jDiYC5xNhYJru_+-AwA at mail.gmail.com
>> > >
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>> >
>> > Daniel Howard Snyder (trail angel) up at Hart's Pass............
>> >
>> > Despite the fact that the road to Hart?s Pass was declared officially
>> > ?closed?, my 11-year old firstborn, Wildabeest, named last year by
>> > Swift
>> > and
>> > Buckeye, and I arrived at Hart?s Pass at 4:53pm. We quickly set up
>> > c...amp
>> > and started a fire for thruhikers. And we waited?and waited?and waited.
>> > No
>> > one showed up, so I went to bed at 11:30pm. Up early to catch those who
>> > might have been at water five miles south, we waited?and waited?and
>> > waited.
>> > It was cold; raining mercilessly. No one showed up, until 10:30, that
>> > is.
>> > Then we got slammed. It was great! Between then and 2pm, we served
>> > fifteen
>> > very cold and very wet thruhikers; two appeared borderline hypothermic.
>> > The
>> > whole lot took turns rotating through the four-door pickup which was
>> > running
>> > and pumping out heat full-blast. With two exceptions?one woman
>> > (unnamed)
>> > was
>> > very sick with some lung ailment, and she and her friend called it
>> > quits?all
>> > were gone by 2. We drove the exceptions down to Mazama at 2:30; back to
>> > camp
>> > by 4:30, we waited again. And waited?and waited?and waited. No one
>> > showed.
>> > Tired, we went for the tent and bed at 8:30pm. Before we reached it,
>> > three
>> > cold, wet, hungry voices shivered through the dark, ?Is this the trail
>> > magic?? Three more! Dinner, sleep, breakfast...they left at 10:30am, in
>> > sunshine. Fifteen minutes passed and we had our last hiker, who said
>> > she
>> > needed "some protein". After several sausages and some ground sirloin
>> > steak,
>> > she ran off to catch up with the three. We left at 2pm. 19 total is
>> > pretty
>> > good for 44-hour trail magic. We left the tents up and a gas lantern
>> > for
>> > those coming through this week. It?s supposed to snow hard and get
>> > nasty.
>> > Hopefully, we can retrieve the gear next weekend, and do more magic.
>> > All
>> > the
>> > best, Serpent Slayer.
>> >
>> > Reported to me this morning.
>> >
>> > PCT MOM
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> >
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>> > End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 46, Issue 3
>> > ************************************
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:15:54 -0700
>> From: Sir Mixalot <atetuna at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Have South Africans done the PCT before?
>> To: Daniel Miller <danmill at gmail.com>
>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAKhNvBXAKE+Uf8NyYqNJg-3o5uHXu15gdh8TX4EnEiTu8=cTyg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Here's how I look at it.
>>
>> The worst that will probably happen if you keep your shoes on is that
>> your
>> feet get cold and you get grit in your shoes.
>>
>> The worst that will probably happen if you go barefoot, especially when
>> the
>> water is flowing fast and deep, is that you'll hurt your feet because you
>> slipped off a rock, stepped into a hole that was deeper than it looked,
>> had
>> a rock roll over it, or cut it on a sharp rock or glass. Of course
>> hurting
>> your feet could cause a reaction that would lead to much worse things.
>>
>> Back to crossing with shoes on... Your feet won't stay cold for long,
>> although it does suck to cross a creek just before walking into camp.
>> Grit
>> probably won't bother you after a while.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Daniel Miller <danmill at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hey folks
>> >
>> > I am planning on doing the PCT starting April next year with a friend.
>> > We're
>> > both from South Africa and were wondering if any South Africans have
>> > done
>> > it
>> > before... Where could we find out?
>> >
>> > I also have a question about crossing rivers. Should you take off your
>> > shoes
>> > and socks so that they are dry, which is 10x more comfortable than
>> > soggy
>> > feet. Or, should you just mission through any river and let them dry
>> > out...
>> > Or is it a bit of both?
>> >
>> > Those who never got any blisters - what shoes were you using and how
>> > many
>> > did you go through?
>> >
>> > Thanks for your help,
>> > Daniel
>> >
>> > ps - is anyone going to be in Whistler this season? I'll be working
>> > there
>> > and would love to meet up with any PCT-affiliates.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 13:17:57 -0500
>> From: Jackie McDonnell <yogihikes at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Have South Africans done the PCT before?
>> To: Daniel Miller <danmill at gmail.com>
>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACK6q3GHeOSooM2xH6MnP6EvSVx-z1c3UZnQ+JMXXbB=r+aEOQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> I don't recall ever sending one of my books to South Africa - although
>> it's
>> possible that a South African did hike the trail without my book. You
>> could
>> contact the PCTA. They might know if they've issued a permit to a South
>> African.
>>
>> Yogi
>> www.pcthandbook.com
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 7:31 PM, Daniel Miller <danmill at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hey folks
>> >
>> > I am planning on doing the PCT starting April next year with a friend.
>> > We're
>> > both from South Africa and were wondering if any South Africans have
>> > done
>> > it
>> > before... Where could we find out?
>> >
>> > I also have a question about crossing rivers. Should you take off your
>> > shoes
>> > and socks so that they are dry, which is 10x more comfortable than
>> > soggy
>> > feet. Or, should you just mission through any river and let them dry
>> > out...
>> > Or is it a bit of both?
>> >
>> > Those who never got any blisters - what shoes were you using and how
>> > many
>> > did you go through?
>> >
>> > Thanks for your help,
>> > Daniel
>> >
>> > ps - is anyone going to be in Whistler this season? I'll be working
>> > there
>> > and would love to meet up with any PCT-affiliates.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 11:20:05 -0700
>> From: Sir Mixalot <atetuna at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Have South Africans done the PCT before?
>> To: Frank Dumville <fdumville at earthlink.net>
>> Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAKhNvBUAvAFpbkYeSm6MN+nTBjpH-FXKZGufjSOZ06vHR=Sfug at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> This summer while doing trail work in the Sierras I was amused at how
>> long
>> hikers (mostly JMTers) would take to find a rock-hop crossing or take off
>> their shoes. I'd power right through the water at the trail crossing.
>> By
>> the time they were hiking on the other side of the crossing, I'd already
>> be
>> a mile ahead of them. Multiply that with all the crossings in the
>> Sierras
>> and that adds up to many miles per day.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Frank Dumville
>> <fdumville at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Keeping dry at stream crossings
>> > In 2006 when I got to the Sierra I tried to keep my shoes and socks dry
>> > for
>> > maybe 2 stream crossing before realizing that it was just not
>> > practical.
>> > There were many places where the trail became a stream, twice I almost
>> > stepped on a fish while on the trail tread. It becomes impractical to
>> > take
>> > off your shoes. You'll also want something on your feet for the major
>> > stream
>> > crossings. Let your feet dry out at breaks and a night. This didn't
>> > cause
>> > any problems for my feet.
>> >
>>
>>
>> > Snap
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 13:21:59 -0500
>> From: Jackie McDonnell <yogihikes at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> To: Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com>
>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACK6q3G-Z7=HQt2u4yrNw-SYxAxCvT7kubgOuiATVpM+hCrv2w at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Hello Tim -
>>
>> April is prime time to start a hike from the Mexican border. I recommend
>> you contact Barney & Sandy Mann, or Girl Scout. They are the folks who
>> host
>> hikers at their homes in San Diego. They'll take you to the border.
>>
>> Instead of finding a way back to San Diego from Idyllwild, I recommend
>> flying out of Palm Springs instead. To do this, instead of going to
>> Idyllwild, continue on the PCT, take a side trail over to the tram on San
>> Jacinto, take the tram down to Palm Springs, fly home from their.
>>
>> Yogi
>> www.pcthandbook.com
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm planning on hiking the PCT in sections starting in April of 2012
>> > at the Mexican border. I was planning on flying into San Diego, and
>> > then somehow getting from the airport to the trail head, and then
>> > hiking to Idyllwild over the course of about 2 weeks, and then somehow
>> > getting from Idyllwild back to the San Diego airport.
>> >
>> > So, I have three questions:
>> >
>> > 1. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to get from
>> > San Diego to the trail head?
>> >
>> > 2. Is two weeks a sufficient amount of time for this trip? Craig's
>> > PCT Planner says "yes", with room to spare, but I was wondering if
>> > anyone had any recommendations one way or the other?
>> >
>> > 3. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to get from
>> > Idyllwild back to San Diego airport?
>> >
>> > I checked Super Shuttle, and they appear to go from San Diego Airport
>> > to Campo, and from Idyllwild to Long Beach Airport (which would be
>> > fine), but it's like $190 for the trip from San Diego to Campo, and
>> > like $290 for the trip from Idyllwild to Long Beach. That's actually
>> > more than the air fare to get to either airport. So, I was hoping
>> > that there was a less expensive way.
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Tim Gustafson
>> > tjg at tgustafson.com
>> > http://tgustafson.com/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 15:27:32 -0400
>> From: Gary Wright <gwtmp01 at mac.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net Listserve" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <F295EA59-2AB4-4536-AA00-0207E990352F at mac.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2011, at 2:21 PM, Jackie McDonnell wrote:
>> > Instead of finding a way back to San Diego from Idyllwild, I recommend
>> > flying out of Palm Springs instead. To do this, instead of going to
>> > Idyllwild, continue on the PCT, take a side trail over to the tram on
>> > San
>> > Jacinto, take the tram down to Palm Springs, fly home from their.
>>
>> Or if you don't want to miss the (in)famous Fuller Ridge and the
>> "when-will-this-ever-end" switchbacks down to the desert floor,
>> you can continue along the PCT for another 30 miles (off the top of my
>> head) until it hits I-10 and then hitch (perhaps difficult) into Palm
>> Springs.
>>
>> It isn't a crazy as it sounds if the snow isn't too bad on the ridge. I
>> certainly wouldn't do the 'typical' road walk if the conditions aren't
>> favorable and would head over to the tram as Yogi suggested in that case.
>> It does give you some options if you arrive in Idyllwild with some extra
>> days before your flight.
>>
>> Radar
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 12:50:07 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Matt Geis <mgeis at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Have South Africans done the PCT before?
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <1317671407.75932.YahooMailNeo at web114417.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Captetown Jenny, in 2002. ?Met her on my way north at Mt. Laguna. ?She
>> was also an AT hiker and was friends with many in the long-distance
>> hiking community, and to this day is missed by many. ?She passed away in
>> 2004.
>>
>> Iron Chef
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 16:37:14 -0400
>> From: <jape1 at cox.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] trail closure in section A
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID: <20111003163714.03SNF.2143245.imail at fed1rmwml34>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> from:
>> http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/incidents_details_info?incident_id=602
>>
>> "Hwy 78 is now open. All road closures have been lifted. The Pacific
>> Crest Trail (in the fire affected areas) and Rodriguez Truck Trail will
>> remain closed. "
>>
>> the good news is that the fire is 40% contained, with a good chance of
>> rain in the next day or so. For the incident map see:
>> http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/pub/cdf/images/incidentfile602_813.pdf
>>
>> eckert
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:29:25 -0400
>> From: Gary Wright <gwtmp01 at mac.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] trail closure in section A
>> To: jape1 at cox.net
>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID: <9EABD47A-A86D-4B84-AD6A-B596E822F3C7 at mac.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2011, at 4:37 PM, jape1 at cox.net wrote:
>>
>> > from:
>> > http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/incidents_details_info?incident_id=602
>> >
>> > "Hwy 78 is now open. All road closures have been lifted. The Pacific
>> > Crest Trail (in the fire affected areas) and Rodriguez Truck Trail will
>> > remain closed. "
>>
>> I hope thu-hikers left some water in the Rodriguez tank for the fire
>> fighters. :-)
>>
>> Radar
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 16:45:55 -0700
>> From: <chiefcowboy at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> To: "Gary Wright" <gwtmp01 at mac.com>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <042FC3979847497CA502AF6943F63F38 at RonPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Flights from Palm Springs USED to be expensive. Today, they are
>> competitive
>> with Ontario, San Diego or even LAX. The hitch from Lehman-Haugen Drive
>> (I-10 near the trail) isn't too bad at all. That intersection is before
>> the
>> I-10 splits off with Highway 111. Lots of traffic.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gary Wright
>> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:27 PM
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net Listserve
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2011, at 2:21 PM, Jackie McDonnell wrote:
>> > Instead of finding a way back to San Diego from Idyllwild, I recommend
>> > flying out of Palm Springs instead. To do this, instead of going to
>> > Idyllwild, continue on the PCT, take a side trail over to the tram on
>> > San
>> > Jacinto, take the tram down to Palm Springs, fly home from their.
>>
>> Or if you don't want to miss the (in)famous Fuller Ridge and the
>> "when-will-this-ever-end" switchbacks down to the desert floor,
>> you can continue along the PCT for another 30 miles (off the top of my
>> head)
>> until it hits I-10 and then hitch (perhaps difficult) into Palm Springs.
>>
>> It isn't a crazy as it sounds if the snow isn't too bad on the ridge. I
>> certainly wouldn't do the 'typical' road walk if the conditions aren't
>> favorable and would head over to the tram as Yogi suggested in that case.
>> It does give you some options if you arrive in Idyllwild with some extra
>> days before your flight.
>>
>> Radar
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:21:04 -0700
>> From: Jeff Eckert <jape1 at cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] trail closure in section A
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID: <AE514A5D-83AE-4D58-960A-E29D6D09513F at cox.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Maybe this will finally get rid of the rat carcass <g>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2011, at 3:29 PM, Gary Wright wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On Oct 3, 2011, at 4:37 PM, jape1 at cox.net wrote:
>> >
>> >> from:
>> >> http://cdfdata.fire.ca.gov/incidents/incidents_details_info?incident_id=602
>> >>
>> >> "Hwy 78 is now open. All road closures have been lifted. The Pacific
>> >> Crest Trail (in the fire affected areas) and Rodriguez Truck Trail
>> >> will remain closed. "
>> >
>> > I hope thu-hikers left some water in the Rodriguez tank for the fire
>> > fighters. :-)
>> >
>> > Radar
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:26:33 -0700
>> From: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hart's Pass bad weather.......
>> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAD=4stFmDEZEQiQrE1yNh_b3RcNgtFqzvSD2tnOjCGG0V_HE1A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Daniel.......
>>
>> I reposted this on the PCT-L and on my Face Book page. Everyone is
>> thanking
>> you for a great job. We need to get you a yellow rubber chicken. You are
>> an
>> official Angel with wings. The rubber chicken is the official mascot of
>> the
>> PCT Trail Angels.
>>
>> Thank you for the really important work you are doing.
>>
>> Love and hugs,
>>
>> Andrea Dinsmore
>> PCT MOM
>> Skykomish/Baring Trail Angel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:20:51 -0700
>> From: Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACMcHMc8Kq2ThopsHqO+SjSm1+HXGb7hP-PAgNZMQ2YFwYwsJA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> > 1. Get Yogi's book.
>>
>> Ordered; thanks!
>>
>> > 2. Register and attend ADZPCTKO, and use the ride board.
>>
>> Well, I'll be on the rail from April 3rd until about the 17th, and
>> then I'll have to go home because I'll be out of vacation time. :\
>>
>> > 3. Don't worry about it. There will be rides. Good luck. BR
>>
>> Thanks! I guess I'm just not used to trail magic yet. :)
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tim Gustafson
>> tjg at tgustafson.com
>> http://tgustafson.com/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:26:08 -0700
>> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] THREE questions
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <80D092C5-B0B4-4781-B256-FF4D6F99E993 at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2011, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>> > 1. I read the occasional log journal reporting that going stoveless
>> > on the PCT can be a choice that simplifies the hike, though of
>> > course it eliminates certain comforting food/drink options. Anyone
>> > who has gone stoveless, I'd like to hear your thoughts on it if
>> > you're willing. The four of us are considering it.
>> I didn't go stoveless, but my stove was made from a small 6oz
>> aluminum drink can so was so lightweight it really made little
>> difference. There are some really great foods you can eat stoveless
>> though so I may explore that more because the food sounds better.
>>
>> > 2. What is the most common solution to posting journal entries?
>> > Sending written transcripts to friends who post them? or?
>> I'm not sure what the most common solution is. It appeared that a lot
>> of people would send emails to others who would then post them to
>> trail journal websites, but I don't know if that was the most common.
>> A lot of people also use some kind of electronic device to post
>> directly. I know the Postholer journals let you post via email so if
>> you have a smart phone you can journal as you go and upload when you
>> get a signal.
>>
>> I used a small notebook and a pencil (because pens wash away when you
>> accidentally swim across creeks). In trail towns I would find a
>> computer somewhere and use my paper journal to jog my memory if I
>> couldn't remember a detail, but otherwise just do a fast brain dump
>> of every memorable thing I could remember. The more boring details
>> are locked away on paper and the slightly less boring details are
>> there for my fans LOL.
>>
>> > 3. For any of the 2011 PCT thru-hikers who made it to Canada, any
>> > difficulties with border control? My understanding is that year
>> > after year it isn't an issue -- but there was a rumor that this
>> > year was different, and I thought I'd ask.
>> I'm not sure what the change was but I thought it affected Southbound
>> hikers more than northbound. However, from reading trail journals, it
>> sounds like a lot more people backtracked from the monument this year
>> compared to previous years.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:27:42 -0700
>> From: Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACMcHMcqH7baic-TKiBuXnAnSJV0jkuAWw71AzH9rQ_binxhZA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> > You could hike over to the Palm Springs Tramway and take it down to
>> > Palm Springs.
>>
>> It looks like this might be the most viable option. Plane tickets
>> from PSP to SFO are about the same as from SAN to SJC, so that may
>> work well. It looks like walking from the tramway to the airport is
>> actually very doable - it's only about 5 miles, and apparently all
>> flat. Has anyone else walked that route before? Google Maps seems to
>> think it will be no problem.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tim Gustafson
>> tjg at tgustafson.com
>> http://tgustafson.com/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:37:24 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Jackie McDonnell <yogihikes at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> To: tjg at tgustafson.com, pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <6507283.3236.1317692244933.JavaMail.txtblapp at ip-10-250-7-192.ec2.internal>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
>>
>> You won't have to walk from the bottom of the tram to the airport, and
>> here's why: The other people on the tram are going to see your pack and
>> they'll smell you (hee hee). They will be curious. Talk to them about
>> your hike, and work this into the conversation: "I have to find some way
>> to get to the airport . . . . Do you know how far it is? . . . . Is there
>> a bus? . . . . Are you going that way?"
>>
>> Someone will offer to take you there.
>>
>> Yogi
>> www.pcthandbook.com
>>
>> *** Sent on the go from my PEEK ***
>> -------------------------------------
>> Tim Gustafson<tjg at tgustafson.com> wrote:
>>
>> > You could hike over to the Palm Springs Tramway and take it down to
>> > Palm Springs.
>>
>> It looks like this might be the most viable option. Plane tickets
>> from PSP to SFO are about the same as from SAN to SJC, so that may
>> work well. It looks like walking from the tramway to the airport is
>> actually very doable - it's only about 5 miles, and apparently all
>> flat. Has anyone else walked that route before? Google Maps seems to
>> think it will be no problem.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tim Gustafson
>> tjg at tgustafson.com
>> http://tgustafson.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 18
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 18:41:00 -0700
>> From: Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACMcHMfORR15kQ1Ogsa=iZg1Jzg_G7QwKFNaw1rRotRnTqGj+w at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> >?The?other?people?on?the?tram?are?going?to?see?your?pack
>> >?and?they'll?smell?you?(hee?hee).
>>
>> What are you trying to say? *grin*
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tim Gustafson
>> tjg at tgustafson.com
>> http://tgustafson.com/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 19
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 20:12:22 -0700
>> From: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> To: Tim Gustafson <tjg at tgustafson.com>
>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAGxcj11Nr96cCw7x0d-5_8KDg1TTUV5uz1AHV1wBJ3rRW_NU-w at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> That's a lesson in yogiing from Yogi! Meeting day hikers just before
>> trailheads and doing the same thing often gets you a ride long before you
>> even hit a road. Great advice.
>>
>> Shroomer
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 20
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:29:13 -0500
>> From: Jackie McDonnell <yogihikes at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Planning a Trip for 2012
>> To: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACK6q3HY8Y+-b+t4TWdi=77HJAKw++vm4-YYgzk3AXn42PHxog at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Tim - I just noticed that your trip is April 3-17. It's quite possible
>> that
>> San Jacinto will have too much snow and you won't be able to get to the
>> tram
>> from the PCT. You could still hitch from Idyllwild to Palm Springs, or
>> from
>> Pines-to-Palms Highway to Palm Springs.
>>
>> Yogi
>> www.pcthandbook.com
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > That's a lesson in yogiing from Yogi! Meeting day hikers just before
>> > trailheads and doing the same thing often gets you a ride long before
>> > you
>> > even hit a road. Great advice.
>> >
>> > Shroomer
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 21
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:09:30 -0700
>> From: rob gratz <hikergratz at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [pct-l] yogis book
>> To: PCT <Pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAGAd3kG4PE8zYUugcsR0PxKK6WsRzMZepL_2KiE-yn-hMB4LxA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> im wondering,i don`t want to take her money away,but. what does her book
>> have that this list dosnt?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 22
>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:28:49 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: enyapjr at comcast.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] yogis book
>> To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <1784745089.824.1317720529516.JavaMail.root at sz0027a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> > what does her book have that this list dosnt?
>>
>> Organization, organization, organization!!
>>
>> While it has the opinions of numerous past thrus regarding many topics,
>> each segment stays 'on topic'...
>> Also has the 'on trail' booklet with water info and town maps/info...
>> And no 'flame wars', thread hijacking, etc. - just various past thrus
>> telling of their personal 'experience'... ;o)
>>
>> Happy trails!!!
>> Jim (PITA)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 23
>> Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 06:43:40 -0600
>> From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogis book
>> To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <4E8AFF7C.4070009 at scottbryce.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 10/4/2011 3:28 AM, enyapjr at comcast.net wrote:
>> > Also has the 'on trail' booklet with water info
>>
>> Which I found very useful. The water report tells you what the water
>> source looked like at some time in the recent past. Yogi's book tells
>> you the likelihood that it will still have water in any given year.
>> Combine the two, and you have the info you need to decide which water
>> sources to rely on.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 24
>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 05:56:44 -0700
>> From: Palomino <palomino.pct at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [pct-l] yogis book
>> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAMCEgfVb_yiofz5U1LGsV0hEr7CvW0LQkuvrLjxbO2b2kRNMOg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Yogi's laminated resupply lists are my single favorite PCT resource.
>>
>> Palomino
>> San Juan Bautista, CA
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 25
>> Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 06:06:32 -0700
>> From: <chiefcowboy at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogis book
>> To: "Scott Bryce" <sbryce at scottbryce.com>, "pct-l"
>> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <F249706FC978481BA613A526DB0111A4 at RonPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> Yogi's book is excellent. I wouldn't attempt the trail without it!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Bryce
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 5:43 AM
>> To: pct-l
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogis book
>>
>> On 10/4/2011 3:28 AM, enyapjr at comcast.net wrote:
>> > Also has the 'on trail' booklet with water info
>>
>> Which I found very useful. The water report tells you what the water
>> source looked like at some time in the recent past. Yogi's book tells
>> you the likelihood that it will still have water in any given year.
>> Combine the two, and you have the info you need to decide which water
>> sources to rely on.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 26
>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:23:19 -0600
>> From: Charles Doersch <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogis book
>> To: chiefcowboy at verizon.net
>> Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <CADH_B_hfyx78N-78nnjOyPrjBpvKPu38WhjEiqmbfPzcjQHwmA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> This list supplements Yogi's book. Not the other way around.
>>
>> And while I could say so very much in recommending Yogi's book, I'll say
>> this in particular:
>>
>> It is written with wisdom -- not just knowledge and experience. There's
>> a
>> respectful life-savvy and unfussy emotional intelligence that runs
>> through
>> it that doesn't just provide "answers" but provides you a context to
>> understand a range of answers as potentially equally viable, valid, and
>> sound -- depending on your particular dynamics, and the trail's dynamics
>> at
>> a given point in a given condition. But outside that context, that range
>> would provide confusion instead of coherence.
>>
>> And yes, though I was skeptical as we began our preparations this past
>> April
>> for 2012, we bought the book anyway, just to see. And we have found it
>> invaluable. It has helped us open door after door of changing paradigms.
>> And
>> let's face it, the PCT is a paradigm punch in the face -- and *many*
>> people
>> fail it because of inadequate preparation. Reading the trail journals in
>> April and May, I kept thinking "Oh dear. This person's clearly has not
>> done
>> their homework -- why didn't they read Yogi's book?" And person after
>> person
>> bailed on the trail from avoidable difficulty. [Others stepped off the
>> trail
>> for other reasons, even having done full and deep preparation -- but they
>> don't come into this question].
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 7:06 AM, <chiefcowboy at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Yogi's book is excellent. I wouldn't attempt the trail without it!
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Scott Bryce
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 5:43 AM
>> > To: pct-l
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogis book
>> >
>> > On 10/4/2011 3:28 AM, enyapjr at comcast.net wrote:
>> > > Also has the 'on trail' booklet with water info
>> >
>> > Which I found very useful. The water report tells you what the water
>> > source looked like at some time in the recent past. Yogi's book tells
>> > you the likelihood that it will still have water in any given year.
>> > Combine the two, and you have the info you need to decide which water
>> > sources to rely on.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 27
>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:00:33 -0700
>> From: <lafferty1 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Found SPOT and Update
>> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <89FF233D10064A748A241AEEEF0410F7 at karenHP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> My hiking buddy lost her spot and it had her name on it. Styker sent an
>> e-mail. Am trying to get ahold of him to see if he has more information
>> on it. KL
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 28
>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: lafferty <lafferty1 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [pct-l] lost spot
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Cc: Ellen Feeney <ellenf92126 at yahoo.com>
>> Message-ID: <1317744421.12253.YahooMailRC at web80508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> On August 11 Noah Stryker reported that he had found a spot at Mt
>> Ashland.? I am
>> wondering if he still has it or what he might have done with it.??? If he
>> could
>> let Ellen know.? Her e-mail is ellenf92126 at yahoo.com.?? Thanks. Kodak
>> Karen
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 46, Issue 4
>> ************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
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