[pct-l] Bikes on PCT

Thu May 5 14:28:57 CDT 2011

Well, I guess I come down to somewhere in between on some of these. Just
because someone makes a rule does not mean I have to follow it. And I don't
equate those hikers who "interpret" rules according to prevailing conditions
as "selfish" or as "rule benders," per se, or as less than "gems of
humanity." I'm certainly not implying L-Rod is being unfair as she
eloquently states her case. And I would feel exasperated by mountain bikes
on a trail intended just for hikers ... some rules are more important than
others, some have more weight, some we need to defend to keep the trail our
trail. But, to Gary's point, I guess I'd counter that just because we ignore
a rule that's dumb doesn't mean we're all just the same as those who violate
the biggies.

I can certainly sympathize with L-Rod's exasperation.

If I see someone in windy, dry conditions with an untended fire, I'd go a
little nuts.
If I see someone washing dishes with soap in a creek -- I go a little
ape-shit.
If you leave your poop out in the open with toilet paper blowing in the
wind, I'll scoop it up and throw it at you.
My list could go on.

But on the subject of rules, per se, I am philosophical: my experience of
"rules" is that they serve me as guidance. Some rules just make life better
for us all. Some rules are set up presuming imbeciles need to be controlled
(and some do). If I wish to follow rules unquestioningly, that's my
business. But I don't expect others to follow them unquestioningly. We take
our brains offline if we just do what we're told. (Big caveat: if I'm on
someone's private property, I follow the rules. Period. Their game, their
rules. If I'm in a private wilderness preserve that is owned by, say, the
Conservancy -- I follow their rules.)

Yet, we have to admit, we all live among so many useless rules. And we make
life ugly when we enforce them on one another. Nothing more insidious than
getting folks to police each other.

Some rules are based on avoiding a hazard that is so unlikely as to be
statistically insignificant. So I try to consider the source, the situation,
and my own judgment. I don't follow a rule just because it's there.
[Context: as a gay guy, I've been against the law all over the country for
years. My affection is still against the law in several states -- and I
cheerfully ignore their laws, their rules.] And having lived and traveled in
59 countries, I've seen not only the stupidity of rules, but the stupidity
of the lack of rules, and the stupidity of folks blindly following stupid
rules. So, I try to consider each rule according to its merits.

I guess my point is that I don't want to hike the PCT next year with an
orthodox view of rule-keeping in mind -- I don't want my sense of rules to
apply to everyone else ... I don't want my hike to become hegemonic of
others' hikes.  And if I encounter folks doing surprising things -- things
outside the rules -- on the trail or off, I feel I'd better check to make
sure my default response isn't disapproval or contempt. The very idea of
wilderness is that it is that marvelous place beyond the structures of
civilization -- which means, unruled, no? How awful if PCT-hikers began
policing each other along the trail ... bye-bye wilderness experience.

Are there limits? Sure. If I see you leaving your poop in the open, I'll
throw it at you.

Cheers,

~Charles

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Gary Schenk <gwschenk at socal.rr.com> wrote:

> Well put, L-rod. Thanks for stating what I am incapable of getting across.
>
> Gary
>
> On 5/5/2011 10:08 AM, Donna "L-Rod" Saufley wrote:
> > Mendorider,
> >
> > I love you dearly, and I know you are the type of trail user that obeys
> > the rules. There are many other hikers who also obey the rules and
> > etiquette. But I know of way too high a percentage of hikers who do not.
> > Everything Gary said about hikers is true, and then some. When I started
> > out hosting, I had a very pollyanna-ish view of hikers. Over the years,
> > what they've told me and what I've witnessed has changed that. Hikers
> > are just people. They'll take the path of least resistance and bend the
> > rules just like people everywhere do in life.
> >
> > It's hard for me to keep my cool when a hiker tells me they've had a
> > fire ring every night since they started hiking, despite dire fire
> > conditions and restrictions. As someone who lives here and has known
> > plenty of hikers who have started fires involving acreage, I just want
> > to strangle them. People who know the trail best and have hiked it more
> > than anyone else have shared their disgust over the amount of trash,
> > toilet paper, and human waste is being left in the open in recent years,
> > in areas that only PCT hikers would frequent. Sadly too, many hikers try
> > to avoid the bear canister requirements and boast of sleeping with their
> > food (which is tantamount to training bears, who are very smart, to find
> > food in tents where humans may be sleeping). The lack of preparedness
> > I've seen for weather conditions and such has been downright disturbing.
> >
> > In between the rule benders and the selfish are jewels of humanity that
> > I am privileged to meet and host. I love to be in the company of hikers,
> > and still want to help them along the way. I simply have had to develop
> > a more realistic view of hikers based on the evidence.
> >
> > L-Rod
> >
> >
> >     -----Original Message-----
> >     From: Edward Anderson
> >     Sent: May 4, 2011 8:40 PM
> >     To: gwschenk at socal.rr.com, pct-l at backcountry.net
> >     Cc: Donna and Jeff Saufley
> >     Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bikes on PCT
> >
> >     Gary, I just read your post on bikes. It is disappointing to me that
> >     you have that attitude and concept. You use the terms "we" and "us"
> >     implying that most other hikers behave as you say you do. The vast
> >     majority of hikers that I know do not build fires where it is
> >     prohibited - when fires are prohibited there is good reason. When a
> >     trail has been closed - there is a good reason. When bear canisters
> >     are required - there are good reasons. Yes, it might be
> >     "inconvenient" to obey the laws/rules, but, as users of the PCT, we
> >     must. And it is also our responsibility to set an example for those
> >     who are new to the PCT. What you posted yesterday might well
> >     influence irresponsible behavior that will reflect on the reputation
> >     of the PCT hiking community.
> >     Regarding bikes on the PCT: Mechanized transport is expressly
> >     prohibited by the Wilderness Act of 1964 - wheeled vehicles are not
> >     permitted in Wilderness areas or on the PCT. They are illegal - and
> >     for many good reasons. Just one of them is that wheels leave linear
> >     tracks that water will follow, creating ruts.
> >     MendoRider
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >     *From:* "gwschenk at socal.rr.com" <gwschenk at socal.rr.com>
> >     *To:* pct-l at backcountry.net
> >     *Sent:* Tue, May 3, 2011 11:33:55 AM
> >     *Subject:* Re: [pct-l] Bikes on PCT
> >
> >     It's hard for us as hikers to complain about bikes on the PCT when
> >     we ignore trail closures, build illegal fires and refuse to carry
> >     bear canisters when required. (This is not directed at James, but
> >     all of us hikers in general)
> >
> >     How can we make credible complaints to stop the encroachment of
> >     bikes and dirtbikes on the trail, when we ourselves are so quick to
> >     ignore the regulations we find inconvenient?
> >
> >     I'm guilty as well, having camped in places where I shouldn't have.
> >     I managed to rationalize that decision just like the mountain bikers
> >     rationalize their decision to ride the trail.
> >
> >     So it goes.
> >
> >     Gary
> >     _______________________________________________
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