[pct-l] Traction--Katoola choices

Mon Mar 14 08:38:28 CDT 2011

I suppose that would depend on how close to the size change you are, med/lg.
I wouldn't want to try to get a med. over a pair of size 13 but if you find
your spikes slipping try the next size down. Worked for me.

Jackass

On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 6:00 PM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:

> Thanks, Jason! Good to hear. So, is it safe to say that if you down-size
> one from what you'd normally order, the things will stay on?
>
>
>
> "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education
> 1106A Ski Run Blvd
> South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
>   P: <888-996-8333>888-996-8333
>   F: <530-541-1456>530-541-1456
>   C: <530-721-1551>530-721-1551
>   http://www.mountaineducation.org
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Moores" <jmmoores1 at gmail.com>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:47 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Traction--Katoola choices
>
>
>  I have used micro spikes for the past two summers and found them very
>> useful, I wear size 11, so the first pair I bought were the large and they
>> were too large. They didn't stay in place when on an incline, so I tried
>> the
>> medium. Perfect. I had no problem with the spikes "rolling" on even the
>> steepest slopes.
>>
>> Jackass
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 8:21 AM, <dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com> wrote:
>>
>>  I am still checking this out. Sounds like the KTS Alum crampons are the
>>> most
>>> likely option unless I get some better feedback on the micro spikes. The
>>> microspikes are interesting. Looks like they would certainly be good for
>>> some things.
>>>
>>> Ned raises concern about the microspikes rolling off on a side slope and
>>> I
>>> have the same concern just by looking at how they attach with the rubber
>>> band.  I also have a concern on the size of these as medium ends at mens
>>> 10.5 and large starts at 10.5.  I wear a 10.5 to 11 and would be
>>> concerned
>>> that the large would be on the loose end and even more likely to have a
>>> "roll off" problem but I also need to be able to get them on. There is no
>>> way for me to know if these will actually work unless they have been
>>> tested
>>> in these mountain conditions, not just sidewalks and flat trails.
>>>
>>> I would be interested in feedback from anyone who has used these micro
>>> spikes in the Sierra Conditions to be faced on the PCT in summer months.
>>> And
>>> what size is recommended for a 10.5-11.0 mens boot.
>>>
>>> Sorry to ask so many questions on this but I don't like to experiment
>>> with
>>> life safety equipment on the trail and that is exactly what I will be
>>> doing
>>> with these snow situations whether I like it or not, unless I can avoid
>>> them
>>> by sectioning.
>>>
>>> Yes I will probably asking what Ice Ax to get.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ned at mountaineducation.org [mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org]
>>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 2:03 PM
>>> To: dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com; 'PCT-L'
>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Traction--Katoola choices
>>>
>>> The jury is still out, but we have some concerns about their Aluminum vs.
>>> Steel KTS crampons. (We hope to be product testing them for ourselves
>>> this
>>> Spring after the Kickoff in SoCal).
>>>
>>> As we see it, with a keen eye on what we know you need in the Springtime
>>> Sierra for safety, these are the issues:
>>>
>>> - length of points: you do not need long points, so go with the Aluminum.
>>>
>>> - method of attachment: (this is our biggest concern) you do need good
>>> strapping over the shoe for those wild, "catch-your-balance" steps (make
>>> sure the darn thing doesn't come off your foot just when you need it the
>>> most!).
>>>
>>> - fit to the width of your shoe: (the next biggest concern) Their
>>> "LeafSpringR extender bar" must hold to the width of your shoe so it
>>> doesn't
>>>
>>> slide side-to-side in the crampon. You must be able to make sudden side
>>> steps without your shoe moving in the crampon.
>>>
>>> - front points: (real important safety issue) are not necessary for the
>>> thru
>>>
>>> hiker and can even cause severe injury to the other foot if you aren't
>>> constantly aware of where your feet are moving. The Aluminum model's
>>> front
>>> points are more down than forward, so that would, again, be our choice.
>>>
>>> - they may ball-up more than the Microspikes since the points are longer
>>> (balling-up is the adhesion of wet snow to the metal under foot creating
>>> a
>>> "ball" under there and making footing much less traction difficult).
>>> Depends
>>>
>>> on the condition of the snow.
>>>
>>> Be careful not to walk on rock with the aluminum model, for obvious
>>> reasons.
>>>
>>> Now, to their Microspikes:
>>>
>>> We are very leery about several issues:
>>>
>>> - will they stay on your foot (not roll right off) when you have to catch
>>> your balance with a wild sideways step? Will the "rubber band" allow the
>>> rotation of the spikes clear off your foot? Maybe not, but that is the
>>> moment when you need traction the most. Maybe add another strap higher on
>>> the shoe, from instep on one side to the same on the other....
>>>
>>> - they are only good for icy/crusty conditions at the surface of the
>>> snowpack and, we suspect, will not deal well with the typical Sierra
>>> "soft-snow-on-the-surface, hard-frozen-layer-down-below," this is where
>>> balling-up gets in the way of adherence to the crust below (late morning
>>> thru afternoon issue). Sure, they are good on the sidewalk, but how do
>>> they
>>> do in "Sierra Cement"?
>>>
>>> If you need a traction aide, because your footwear does not have the lug
>>> pattern nor torsional stiffness to handle edge control well on hard-ish,
>>> steep surfaces, we'd go with the KTS, aluminum model (at least you'll
>>> have
>>> some edge to work with).
>>>
>>>
>>> "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
>>>
>>> Ned Tibbits, Director
>>> Mountain Education
>>> 1106A Ski Run Blvd
>>> South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
>>>   P: <888-996-8333>888-996-8333
>>>   F: <530-541-1456>530-541-1456
>>>   C: <530-721-1551>530-721-1551
>>>   http://www.mountaineducation.org
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com>
>>> To: <ned at mountaineducation.org>; "'PCT-L'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 6:21 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Self Arrest - Instep Crampons
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > OK I looked at them both - which one is best KTS Crampons (aluminum or
>>> > steel)  KTS micro spikes??? I wear a light low top boot if that >
>>> matters.
>>> > Vasque Breeze.  Any opinions??  Thx
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: ned at mountaineducation.org [mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org]
>>> > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 6:11 PM
>>> > To: dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com; 'PCT-L'
>>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Self Arrest - Instep Crampons
>>> >
>>> >>From the point of view of hiker safety, carry both self-arrest and
>>> >>traction
>>> >
>>> > devices up from the Palms to Pines highway 74 just prior to San >
>>> Jacinto.
>>> >
>>> > If you feel that the snow/ice conditions are too much for your skill
>>> > level,
>>> > stay on the ridge and don't follow the trail. Remember, regarding snow
>>> > travel, you only need to know where the trail is and not that you have
>>> > to
>>> > be
>>> >
>>> > on top of it all the time! If by following the ridge to circumvent the
>>> > dangerous snow/ice, you come back to the trail, then it all worked out
>>> ok.
>>> >
>>> > Do not take the instep crampons if they will not have enough "purchase"
>>> on
>>> > the snow/ice when at an angle. This will only be a false sense of
>>> security
>>> > that may fail you when you need them on a steep slope. Better to have >
>>> the
>>> > Katoola KTS or microspikes.
>>> >
>>> > The Black Diamond Whippet will serve you well as long as you know how >
>>> to
>>> > use
>>> >
>>> > it. Just remember, it is not the tool for self-belaying straight up a
>>> snow
>>> > climb (like Forester-if the chute is not ice), you'll need an ice axe >
>>> for
>>> > doing that, nor is it the best self-arrest tool for that ever-needed,
>>> > uphill-handed, traverse anchor, since it has a basket, is not designed
>>> for
>>> > lateral torque (it will bend), and its shaft will not plunge deep into
>>> the
>>> > snow to secure you in place while crossing a steep traverse on "iffy"
>>> > snow.
>>> >
>>> > For the snow, and you will have plenty even before you get to Kennedy
>>> > Meadows, take an ice axe, some form of traction device that will not >
>>> roll
>>> > off your foot on a steep traverse, good gaitors, sun screen, a
>>> > wide-brimmed
>>> > hat, great glasses, leg protection (for those post-holing days), and
>>> > experience.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
>>> >
>>> > Ned Tibbits, Director
>>> > Mountain Education
>>> > 1106A Ski Run Blvd
>>> > South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
>>> >    P: <888-996-8333>888-996-8333
>>> >    F: <530-541-1456>530-541-1456
>>> >    C: <530-721-1551>530-721-1551
>>> >    http://www.mountaineducation.org
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: <dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com>
>>> > To: "'PCT-L'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>>> > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:43 AM
>>> > Subject: [pct-l] Self Arrest - Instep Crampons
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Are the San Jacinto and specifically Fuller Ridge, the 1st location >>
>>> that
>>> >> foot traction devices and self arrest tool might be needed?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I plan to carry an old pair of Swiss 4 spike instep crampons and a >>
>>> Black
>>> >> Diamond Whippet in lieu of ice axe.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> It is understood that checking weather conditions and snow pack prior
>>> >> to
>>> >> entering the San Jacinto is a prerequisite.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Dave
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
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