[pct-l] Traction--Katoola choices

Sun Mar 13 18:47:51 CDT 2011

I have used micro spikes for the past two summers and found them very
useful, I wear size 11, so the first pair I bought were the large and they
were too large. They didn't stay in place when on an incline, so I tried the
medium. Perfect. I had no problem with the spikes "rolling" on even the
steepest slopes.

Jackass

On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 8:21 AM, <dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com> wrote:

> I am still checking this out. Sounds like the KTS Alum crampons are the
> most
> likely option unless I get some better feedback on the micro spikes. The
> microspikes are interesting. Looks like they would certainly be good for
> some things.
>
> Ned raises concern about the microspikes rolling off on a side slope and I
> have the same concern just by looking at how they attach with the rubber
> band.  I also have a concern on the size of these as medium ends at mens
> 10.5 and large starts at 10.5.  I wear a 10.5 to 11 and would be concerned
> that the large would be on the loose end and even more likely to have a
> "roll off" problem but I also need to be able to get them on. There is no
> way for me to know if these will actually work unless they have been tested
> in these mountain conditions, not just sidewalks and flat trails.
>
> I would be interested in feedback from anyone who has used these micro
> spikes in the Sierra Conditions to be faced on the PCT in summer months.
> And
> what size is recommended for a 10.5-11.0 mens boot.
>
> Sorry to ask so many questions on this but I don't like to experiment with
> life safety equipment on the trail and that is exactly what I will be doing
> with these snow situations whether I like it or not, unless I can avoid
> them
> by sectioning.
>
> Yes I will probably asking what Ice Ax to get.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ned at mountaineducation.org [mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org]
> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 2:03 PM
> To: dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com; 'PCT-L'
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Traction--Katoola choices
>
> The jury is still out, but we have some concerns about their Aluminum vs.
> Steel KTS crampons. (We hope to be product testing them for ourselves this
> Spring after the Kickoff in SoCal).
>
> As we see it, with a keen eye on what we know you need in the Springtime
> Sierra for safety, these are the issues:
>
> - length of points: you do not need long points, so go with the Aluminum.
>
> - method of attachment: (this is our biggest concern) you do need good
> strapping over the shoe for those wild, "catch-your-balance" steps (make
> sure the darn thing doesn't come off your foot just when you need it the
> most!).
>
> - fit to the width of your shoe: (the next biggest concern) Their
> "LeafSpringR extender bar" must hold to the width of your shoe so it
> doesn't
>
> slide side-to-side in the crampon. You must be able to make sudden side
> steps without your shoe moving in the crampon.
>
> - front points: (real important safety issue) are not necessary for the
> thru
>
> hiker and can even cause severe injury to the other foot if you aren't
> constantly aware of where your feet are moving. The Aluminum model's front
> points are more down than forward, so that would, again, be our choice.
>
> - they may ball-up more than the Microspikes since the points are longer
> (balling-up is the adhesion of wet snow to the metal under foot creating a
> "ball" under there and making footing much less traction difficult).
> Depends
>
> on the condition of the snow.
>
> Be careful not to walk on rock with the aluminum model, for obvious
> reasons.
>
> Now, to their Microspikes:
>
> We are very leery about several issues:
>
> - will they stay on your foot (not roll right off) when you have to catch
> your balance with a wild sideways step? Will the "rubber band" allow the
> rotation of the spikes clear off your foot? Maybe not, but that is the
> moment when you need traction the most. Maybe add another strap higher on
> the shoe, from instep on one side to the same on the other....
>
> - they are only good for icy/crusty conditions at the surface of the
> snowpack and, we suspect, will not deal well with the typical Sierra
> "soft-snow-on-the-surface, hard-frozen-layer-down-below," this is where
> balling-up gets in the way of adherence to the crust below (late morning
> thru afternoon issue). Sure, they are good on the sidewalk, but how do they
> do in "Sierra Cement"?
>
> If you need a traction aide, because your footwear does not have the lug
> pattern nor torsional stiffness to handle edge control well on hard-ish,
> steep surfaces, we'd go with the KTS, aluminum model (at least you'll have
> some edge to work with).
>
>
> "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education
> 1106A Ski Run Blvd
> South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
>    P: 888-996-8333
>    F: 530-541-1456
>    C: 530-721-1551
>    http://www.mountaineducation.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com>
> To: <ned at mountaineducation.org>; "'PCT-L'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 6:21 PM
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Self Arrest - Instep Crampons
>
>
> >
> >
> > OK I looked at them both - which one is best KTS Crampons (aluminum or
> > steel)  KTS micro spikes??? I wear a light low top boot if that matters.
> > Vasque Breeze.  Any opinions??  Thx
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ned at mountaineducation.org [mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 6:11 PM
> > To: dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com; 'PCT-L'
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Self Arrest - Instep Crampons
> >
> >>From the point of view of hiker safety, carry both self-arrest and
> >>traction
> >
> > devices up from the Palms to Pines highway 74 just prior to San Jacinto.
> >
> > If you feel that the snow/ice conditions are too much for your skill
> > level,
> > stay on the ridge and don't follow the trail. Remember, regarding snow
> > travel, you only need to know where the trail is and not that you have to
> > be
> >
> > on top of it all the time! If by following the ridge to circumvent the
> > dangerous snow/ice, you come back to the trail, then it all worked out
> ok.
> >
> > Do not take the instep crampons if they will not have enough "purchase"
> on
> > the snow/ice when at an angle. This will only be a false sense of
> security
> > that may fail you when you need them on a steep slope. Better to have the
> > Katoola KTS or microspikes.
> >
> > The Black Diamond Whippet will serve you well as long as you know how to
> > use
> >
> > it. Just remember, it is not the tool for self-belaying straight up a
> snow
> > climb (like Forester-if the chute is not ice), you'll need an ice axe for
> > doing that, nor is it the best self-arrest tool for that ever-needed,
> > uphill-handed, traverse anchor, since it has a basket, is not designed
> for
> > lateral torque (it will bend), and its shaft will not plunge deep into
> the
> > snow to secure you in place while crossing a steep traverse on "iffy"
> > snow.
> >
> > For the snow, and you will have plenty even before you get to Kennedy
> > Meadows, take an ice axe, some form of traction device that will not roll
> > off your foot on a steep traverse, good gaitors, sun screen, a
> > wide-brimmed
> > hat, great glasses, leg protection (for those post-holing days), and
> > experience.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
> >
> > Ned Tibbits, Director
> > Mountain Education
> > 1106A Ski Run Blvd
> > South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
> >    P: 888-996-8333
> >    F: 530-541-1456
> >    C: 530-721-1551
> >    http://www.mountaineducation.org
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com>
> > To: "'PCT-L'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:43 AM
> > Subject: [pct-l] Self Arrest - Instep Crampons
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Are the San Jacinto and specifically Fuller Ridge, the 1st location that
> >> foot traction devices and self arrest tool might be needed?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I plan to carry an old pair of Swiss 4 spike instep crampons and a Black
> >> Diamond Whippet in lieu of ice axe.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It is understood that checking weather conditions and snow pack prior to
> >> entering the San Jacinto is a prerequisite.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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