[pct-l] bear bagging

Sun Jan 2 10:16:27 CST 2011

I live 11 miles from a spot they bring problem bears from yosemite,I
live deep in the woods,I hike and camp in the woods,the only time ive
seen a bear get agressive is when open food was a factor,or when a cub
is near. I usually rope my whole bag into the tree,but as most
know,bears can climb! One thing that could change any animal to be
agressive is rabies,it makes animals crazy and ive seen it first hand!

On 1/2/11, Ron Dye <chiefcowboy at verizon.net> wrote:
> I think Ryan is accurate (to this point) with his assessment but I think the
> Old Ridgerunner has a valid concern.  Too often our governments (and I'm not
> an anti-government hack) don't realized their actions need to be
> periodically reviewed to ensure that they are having the desired effect.  My
> personal observation is that measures taken over the past ten years ARE
> having a positive result.  My Sierra experiences over that period of time
> have been that the bears are becoming accepting that hikers will not
> routinely deliver food to them and they seem to be going  back to their
> natural food acquisition and trying less to take food from hikers.  One can
> only hope that this will continue because the bears are important to the
> back country experience.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of trailwife at aol.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 9:37 AM
> To: jplynch at crosslink.net; yosemiteryan at yahoo.com
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging
>
> What I'm trying to say that I believe that our the Government management of
> bears is based on old ideas that the bears are to be protected to the point
> of their own eventual demise by over population.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: giniajim <jplynch at crosslink.net>
> To: yosemiteryan <yosemiteryan at yahoo.com>; trailwife <trailwife at aol.com>
> Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 8:02 am
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging
>
>
> Not sure how you read Ryan's email to get that it was based on ideas from
> the past.  From everything I've read and seen (I go to Yosemite every year;
> bear central) and what he's telling us is very current.  Visitors to the
> back country are warned all the time to not try to fight a bear for your
> food.  And the reason is simple: if the bear wants it bad enough he will
> win!  Food containers that are bear proof are vital components of modern
> back country camping.  They protect you, your food, and most importantly,
> the bear!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: trailwife at aol.com
> To: yosemiteryan at yahoo.com
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 7:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging
>
>
>
>
>  Ryan's explanation and observations about the bears is as I believe to be
> accurate. It is also based on ideas from the days of 8 track tapes and bear
> hunting with hounds. Since then the bear population has about doubled. I
> think the whole "bear/people management" plans need to be revisited on
> Public Lands.
>
> While I do not advocate renewed bear hunting, I do not mourn the loss of a
> few bears now.  I know an expanding bear population will soon be
> overpopulation that will bring starvation death to many bear.
>
> There is no easy answer and since I have little confidence in our government
> to do anything in an honest and timely manner, I do not expect a good
> answer.
>
> The Old RidgeRunner
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Christensen <yosemiteryan at yahoo.com>
> To: Kevin <hikelite at gmail.com>; Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 4:10 am
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging
>
>
> Kevin,
> I have a feeling I may not be the only one to reply to your post-- but I
> suppose
> I will be the first. I was one of those "pesky" rangers asking about bear
> cans.
> rom what you wrote, I can tell that perhaps you have not had the experience
> ith bears that many Rangers, including myself have had. At heart, Rangers,
> and
> ll these food storage regulations are there to save bears. Bears are
> absolutely
> beautiful creatures with personality and a zest for life. When I worked in
> the
> arks, I was not just hiking through the mountains-- I lived there. I got to
> now the bears- their personalities, the quirks, their cubs, parents and
> randparents-- and gained a very different perspective. If you watch them and
> ay attention they very much remind us of ourselves. I have a brief clip of a
> ideo I took of a bear doing bear things here:
> ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwOTMfnFuc4 ; Its a little over halfway
> through
> he video.
>
> Ursacks were revoked because they have failed in real world situations in
> the
> ackcountry. I have had a visitor come out of the backcountry with a torn
> rsack-- then weeks later at the same location (on the PCT) get the report
> that
> omeone had to be helicoptered out because they were clawed by a bear-- then
> ear the heart breaking story of the bear having to be hunted down and
> killed. I
> have looked into the eyes of a mother bear in a trap, her cub crying next to
> er, knowing she had to be killed because of the stupid decisions of visitors
> efore- who also came and went and did not care enough about the well being
> of
> he bears to properly store their food. The point is: there is a direct
> orrelation between a bear getting human food for the first time- the bear
> uickly becoming addicted to human food- the bear loosing their natural fear
> of
> umans- then the bear becoming bolder and more aggressive in its efforts to
> ontinue its addiction to human food-- this pattern continues until someone
> gets
> hurt-- or have to be killed. Night after night, I have chased the same bear
> away
> from food that people have left out-- to eventually learn that it too had to
> be
> illed-- its three cubs shipped out to a Zoo. It is with a sense of
> compassion
> nd responsibility that we should be properly storing our food. In my
> opinion,
> ts not worth risking the life of a bear to save a few ounces, nor, IMHO is
> my
> ood important enough to me that it outweighs the life of a bear. Yes, we do
> eed containers with 100% impenetrability.
>
> bout defending your food from a bear: well, that's just simply a very, very
> bad
> idea. That does seem to be a common denominator with many of the bear
> maulings I
> am familiar with in the Sierra-- that and using your food as a pillow, which
> is
> lso a very, very bad idea. Know that not all bears are intemidated by rocks,
> articularly the ones who have repeatedly gained food from careless
> ackpackers-- again, if you had more experience with bears I don't think you
> ould claim that they retreat when you throw stones, because many don't.
> Also,
> e mindful of throwing those stones- years ago, in Yosemite, a boy scout
> killed
>  bear when he threw a rock at the bear to protect his food. If your food was
> roperly stored to begin with then there would be no need to "protect" your
> ood.
>
> or the Bears,
>
> roDeal
> www.bristleconemedia.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> rom: Kevin <hikelite at gmail.com>
> o: Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
> c: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> ent: Sun, January 2, 2011 12:10:34 AM
> ubject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging
> Hi Melanie
> Here is the latest update from Ursack. I wish they would approve them. The
> eight difference is huge. I think the agencies managing the backcountry are
> not
> taking into account the hikers when making their decisions about what is
> cceptable food protection. Yes, a bear could probably get into an Ursack
> ventually. Do we need the 100% impenetrability of a rigid container? I don't
> hink so, but it's not up to me. I hung my food for many years without
> trouble.
> ll probably have a canister between KM and Echo Lakes, but it's not by
> choice.
>
> ttp://www.ursack.com/ursack-update.htm
> I haven't yet decided to borrow, rent, or buy. I'm still hoping the Ursack
> will
> e approved for the small sections it's not yet allowed. What they aren't
> taking
> into consideration is how important my food is to me! They base their tests
> on
> llowing a bear unlimited attempts to get the food. When I hear the bear
> trying
> o get my food, you can be sure I will defend it! When I used to hang my
> food, I
> would put a pile of "bear rocks" next to me at night. I have yet to meet a
> bear
> hat thinks my food is worth getting pelted with rocks. They will just move
> on
> o an easier reward. Bears are big, but they still retreat when you throw
> tones. Now that I think about it, I bet that would work for pesky rangers
> sking about me bear can. ;) I'm kidding about that last part, but it does
> make
>  point. HEHE
> I will reluctantly comply with the regulations, even if I don't like them.
>
> isspellings and typos brought to you by iPhone.
> On Jan 1, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear PCT, or Chuck,
>
>  Why is the Ursack illegal?  I loved the Ursack.
>
>  Melanie
>
>  On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 6:24 PM, CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net> wrote:
>
>> Good evening, Mike,
>>
>>
>>
>> It is very rare to see any PCT hiker bag/hang food – anywhere.  Doing so
>> is
>> not allowed as a substitute for using an approved bear ‘can in designated
>> areas.  The last time I bagged/hung food was on an Ontario canoe trip many
>> years ago.  Usually I ditch the ‘can at Echo Summit south of Lake Tahoe,
>> but
>> once I did carry a non-approved Ursack for a while north of there because
>> there were some curious bears in that general area.  Even then I didn't
>> hoist it up; I just tethered it at ground level to a small tree.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the remainder of the PCT north there are lots of bears but they keep
>> their heads down and a hiker will be lucky to see one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steel-Eye
>>
>> Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965
>>
>> http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
>>
>> http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Michael Pinkus <mikepinkus at hotmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> So, bear cannisters are required on some parts of the trail, I'm assuming
>>> that you bear bag it on the rest of the trail? I only ask this as I've
>> never
>>> read anything about it anywhere. We bear bag everywhere here in Canada
>>> unless you are camping when they're hibernating.
>>>
>>> anyone?
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> Mike
>>>
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