[pct-l] Rx Vytorin

Thu Feb 17 15:31:59 CST 2011

Yoshi,
I believe the study you referenced which showed that some vegetarian
foods raised the bad LDL cholesterol was based on people eating a lot of bad
vegetarian foods, such as potato chips, french fries, white rice, white
flour, sugar, candy, deep fried vegetables, cake, hydrogenized vegetable
oils, soft drinks, etc.

Eating good vegetarian foods such as whole fresh fruit, vegetables, nuts,
seeds, legumes, and whole grains have consistently shown to lower bad LDL
cholesterol and raise good HDL cholesterol.  Choosing foods to get a good
ratio between Omega 3 fatty acids and Omega 6 fatty acids will also have a
good affect.

I agree that many animal foods, such as fish, shrimp, squid, eel, etc. have
lots of Omega 3 fatty acids and will help cholesterol levels.  And although
I don't eat any land animals, I understand that wild game and some cuts of
appropriately raised land animals can be good as well (grass fed,
open-range, non-steroidal, etc.).

I don't think the amount of the good fat is a problem, except that fat is
high in calories and so must be balanced with other foods and exercise.
Studies have shown that eating lots of mono and poly-unsaturated fats is
generally good, while eating saturated fats is most likely bad (but there is
still controversy, especially with medium-chain saturated fats like coconut
oil), and trans-fat is definitely bad.

But eating bad animal foods, such as hamburgers, hot dogs, deli meats, prime
rib, Chicken McNuggets, etc. usually have lots of saturated fats, which
causes the body to create the bad LDL cholesterol.  It is my understanding
that our cholesterol levels come 80% from our own bodies and 20% from
outside sources.  So it is better to minimize eating bad fats, which come
mainly from land animals.  Even though eggs have lots of cholesterol, I
think they are still very healthy because they result in very little affect
on cholesterol levels.

I totally agree with you that the use of Statins only lowers the bad LDL
cholesterol and overall cholesterol, but has not been shown to have a
good effect on heart disease.   A relationship between the good HDL
cholesterol and the total cholesterol/HDL ratio of less than 3 has been
shown to have a very positive effect.

So Melinda's outstandingly great HDL cholesterol of 80 (I am impressed)
gives her a great cholesterol ratio. I am very proud of my 66 HDL and a
total cholesterol 139.

I think it is so important to eat whole natural foods, do cardio exercise,
lift weights, get enough sleep, manage stress, avoid environmental toxins,
indulge in CHD, and try to miminize the "quick-fix" medicines that we are
constantly being fed because so few people want to do the right things to
begin with.

Just not part of our American culture...yet.  Hopefully we pick up some of
the habits of your Okinawan bretheren.

Just my 2 cents.

Symbioisis
------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 12:53:28 +0900
From: Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rx Vytorin
To: Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, Amanda L Silvestri <aslive at sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID:
       <AANLkTikBGkQ7UiOa3-adMRE5Ve6H3=HUTYW9-t+piwr6 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dear Amanda

This topic is difficult for me, there are many technical terms and
great disputes concerning the cholesterol. I will write very briefly,
because I have enough time now.

In Japan, there is a great dispute among doctors. I got a guideline of
cholesterol control for longevity. But I cannot translate properly
into English. I will try to translate very small parts from the
guideline.

According to the recent findings( from 2006 ), Statin (control drug )
decreases LDL cholesterol, but it has no effect to  cardiovascular
disease, and no effect to longevity. Then, the great dispute arise.

The food intake of vegetable fat in place of  animal fat proved to
increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, cancer, and  sudden
death. Dear Melanie, you need not avoid animal fat, of course you need
pay attention to the total amount of fat. Lesser is better.

The hypothesis of HDL-C and LDL-C in not supported by recent findings.
In the general population, death rate of high LDL-C group is lower
than low LDL-C group. The guideline stated that this hypothesis is not
recommended to use.

To prevent the cardiovascular disease, fish fat ( EPA ) proved to be
effective. So, Melanie, eat fish sometime. I eat one in a week.

In Japan, margarine is a product from vegetable oil, but margarine is
proved to increase the risk of kidney trouble and cancer. So,
margarine is not recommended.

The guideline recommended the control technique of food to  the total
cholesterol ( 280mm/dL) group and to LDL-C( 180 mg/dL ) group.

Amanda, at least, you need second opinion.
My recommendation is almost the same with Melanie. Avoid medication,
Eat lesser fat, but need not to be a vegetarian. And do physical
exercise regularly. Control your weight.

No time now. bye.
___________________________________________________
2011/2/17 Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>:
> Dear Amanda,
>
> My cholesterol was 230 so I only ate chicken or fish. ?When I went
back a
> year later it was 235. ?Then I became vegetarian but I did not eat any
> cheese or animal fat of any kind. ?That means I could only drink non
fat
> milk and eat non fat yogurt and cottage cheese. ?It worked. ?I lowered
my
> cholesterol to 170. ?My "good" cholesterol was always high, 80 so 170
is a
> very good total for me.
>
> Consider managing your cholesterol by being vegetarian with non fat
milk
> products and only the egg whites. ?We are active and exercise so it
should
> work for you.
>
> Melanie
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Amanda L Silvestri
<aslive at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
>> ?My doctor is think of putting me on Vytorin for cholesterol control
but
>> said that a possible side effect could be muscle weakness. ?I am 59
years
>> old and hiking to Canada this summer. ?I am concerned about muscle
>> weakness. ?I know you can't give out medical advice over the Internet
and
>> without seeing my blood work, but I would like to know if anyone has
>> experienced muscle weakness on Vytorin.
>>
>> Shepherd