[pct-l] Tents vrs Tarps - Numbers do not make sense

[John Abela]

Geeh, maybe some of us like to backpack outside of the PCT... the PCT is not
the end-all of backpacking you know.

So, back to my question...



On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:16 PM, 'Sourdough' Foster <athruhiker2006 at yahoo.com
> wrote:

> Hmmm, The most important thing to remember here it that successfully
> walking to Canada is 85% mental and only 5% gear. Now, what was the question
> again?? :-) HAIRNT!!
> S'do
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* John Abela <pacificcresttrail2011 at gmail.com>
> *To:* PCT L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> *Sent:* Thu, February 3, 2011 10:08:07 PM
> *Subject:* [pct-l] Tents vrs Tarps - Numbers do not make sense
>
> Hello Everybody,
>
> So over the last day or two since I posted my message (re) asking for folks
> to look at my gear-list I have gotten a half-dozen or so posts (almost all
> off-list) telling me that the best way to go from my 8-pound setup to a
> 5-pound setup is to ditch my tent and go with a tarp setup.
>
> I very much understand that is the route a lot of folks are taking.
>
> What I do not understand (could be because my numbers are wrong, or my
> logic
> is screwed up, or both - giggle) is how exactly this is a significant
> weight
> savings technique.
>
> I know there is some logic here I am just not getting in what some of you
> guys are suggestion...
>
> So, here is why I have been having issues with this... somebody please
> knock
> some sense into me as to what I am thinking incorrectly.
>
>
> We got two options before us:
>
> (1) Use a lower rated sleeping bag (say, 20-degree) with a tarp and a
> ground
> cloth.
>
> (2) Use a higher rated sleeping bag (say, 32-degree) with an enclosed tent.
>
> Now is seems that most everybody agrees that an enclosed tent gives most
> people an additional 8-12 degrees of warmth, so that allows for a lighter
> bag. I have found this to be true, if but for only one reason: if there is
> a
> cold wind you are going to have an extra bit of protection inside of the
> enclosed tent that you would not get under a tarp. Now I suspect that this
> is where the big argument (not saying there will be one, just needed to use
> that word as it explains the situation) in all of this plays out. In fact,
> I
> am pretty sure that is where most will say my logic is wrong - which if
> that
> is the case, awesome, because than I would now where my brain is screwed up
> with all of this.
>
>
> So let me throw out the gear I would use in this example. (could be a lot
> different, I'm just picking some big name products in this UL/SUL world)
>
> Option #1 -- I would use the "Gossamer Gear Polycryo Ground Cloth" [at 1.6
> ounces] and the "Mountain Laurel Designs Cuben Fiber Mini Solo Tarp" [at
> 3.8
> ounces] for a total of [5.4 ounces] Lots of sleeping bags to choose from
> but
> lets just pick the Nunatak Arc Alpinist (I would *have* to go with the Epic
> material because it might get wet from side-spray because it is a tarp-only
> setup) so that would be [25 ounces].
>
> Option #2 -- I could use the HMG Echo1 at [24 ounces]. I could of course go
> with the GG One at [18.3 ounces] but the modularity of the Echo1 presents
> better options. I could of course also go with the new super-light ZPacks
> HexaNet Bug Shelter at [11.5 ounces] but again, the Echo1 presents better
> weather defense. And, I know what you are thinking with what I just said,
> just bear with me for a moment. So like before, lots of sleeping bags I
> could pick from, but lets just go with the Nunatak Arc Ghost (I can now go
> with the much lighter Quantum material because I would be inside of an
> fully
> enclosed tent, so that allows me to save a few ounces in material weight,
> and I do not need a lower-rated sleeping bag either, because I am shielded
> from the weather) so the sleeping bag would weight in at [16 ounces]
> (rather
> than the 25-oz for option #1)
>
>
> So gear list explained...
>
>
> Option #1 means you are carrying a lighter tarp/groundcloth, however, you
> are taking a bag that is around 10-oz heavier to make up for the lack of
> protection from a tent.
>
> Option #2 means you are carrying a heavier tent, however, you are able to
> take a bag that is around 10-oz lighter - because you have the protection
> of
> a tent which means lighter bag material and you can go with a higher rated
> bag because you are out of the direct wind.
>
>
>
> So if I were to throw numbers at both of these two options (by the way, I
> am
> 6'2 in height so everything has to be 'large' sized):
>
> (Option #1) Bag + tarp  = 30.4 ounces.
>
> (Option #2) Bag + tent = 40 ounces (if I went with the HMG). 34.3 if I went
> the GG1, and 27.5 ounces if I went with the ZPacks.
>
>
> Going with the bomb-proof HMG shelter, the difference between a tarp setup
> and a tent setup is [9.6 ounces] in favor of the *tarp* system
>
> Going with the much more popular GG1, the differences would be [3.9 ounces]
> in favor of the *tarp* system
>
> Going with the ZPacks HexaNet Bug Shelter, the difference would be [2.9
> ounces] in favor of the *tent* system
>
>
> Everybody is always saying that the tarp system is the way to go, but if
> you
> follow the logic (at least what is probably my flawed logic) the numbers
> just do not make that huge of a difference.
>
> 9-ounces (if you figure I use the heaviest of the tents) is very very
> little
> difference in the large scope of things... and in no way takes you from
> that
> 8 or 9 pound pack to a 5 pound pack. So, what gives?
>
>
> I know there has to be some logical flaw in all of this... but I am failing
> to see where my numbers are wrong..
>
> Maybe I am overthinking the whole bag-usage-logic or something.
>
>
> Could somebody out there with some real experience of making the switch
> from
> tent to tarp please look them over for me and beat me straight.... because
> surely an enclosed tent cannot be lighter overall than a tarp setup. Right?
>
>
> Totally lost in numbers...
> John
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