[pct-l] Dogs in National Parks/horses/mules/llamas

Thu Dec 15 20:52:57 CST 2011

I guess I should weigh in on this topic in defense of my dog Utah who hiked
with us through California.  Dogs when weighed down with packs tend to walk
on the trail leaving absolutely no impact, or at least less than my boots.
 If the dog is tied up at night and isn't chasing animals, mine anyway,
just scares the bears away with her bark.  We were able to bring her as a
service dog.  Service Dogs are allowed in the state and national parks.

We were asked for her credentials at Kings Canyon, the ranger called
through so we didn't get hassled again untill Yosemite, there, the rangers
just wanted the story of what service the dog provides, I offered her
credentials everytime.

You can get credentials and self train your service dog from several
websites.  We carry a photo ID for her and me, that came from petjoy.com.
 there are several similar sites.

We will be back next summer to finish up, I don't expect to have trouble in
Washington or Oregon as the laws that protect access are federal.

Mama Moab, Jayhawk and Utah 2011

On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Mark,
>
> I agree with Snowplow that stock are needed, indeed, necessary, to help
> create and maintain the PCT.
>
> Horses are not a significant source of trail erosion, dogs even less.
> WHEELS are the worst source of trail erosion. This is especially true when
> mountain bikers and motorcycle riders brake while going down hill. The
> groove created, when it rains, becomes a channel and, when it rains, a rut
> for water to run down - and eventually a virtual ditch. The tracks made by
> the hooves of horses and mules, are similar to hiker tracks. If the surface
> is soft, holes are created. The holes can collect rainwater and allow for
> the possibility of the water to percolate downward or evaporate.
>
> I sometimes work as a volunteer on PCT trail maintenance. In the past two
> weeks I have spent four full days with other volunteers. We are working on
> a slippery and sometimes dangerous rock area on Section D. The
> heavy equipment needed was brought in by mules and horses. This kind of
> trail work goes on all along the PCT that we all use. Llama Lady and her
> husband do it with their llamas.
>
> During my 2008 PCT ride I camped with a volunteer Backcountry Horsemen
> Group (I am a BCH) on Section O in Northern California. They were spending
> about two weeks supporting (packing in equipment,food and water) to over 50
> volunteer Boy Scouts who were doing volunteer PCT trail work. I recall
> riding through the large Boy Scout Camp and also through several areas
> where they were working. God bless the volunteers, including their stock -
> without them we would not have a PCT.
>
> MendoRider-Hiker
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: "rcluster at comcast.net" <rcluster at comcast.net>
> To: mark utzman <blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs in National Parks
>
> Mark,
> You also need to research the history of the building and maintaining of
> the PCT.
>
> Those "horses, pack mules and llamas" do not destroy the trail, they BUILT
> and MAINTAIN the trail. Without them and their owners/handlers, there would
> not be a PCT for the rest of us to enjoy.
>
>
> Snowplow
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mark utzman" <blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:46:38 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Dogs in National Parks
>
> A post I read today about whether or not hikers are dog friendly on the
> trail prompted me to send this reply. Why do we always let the proverbial "
> bad apple " ruin it for the rest of us who are responsible and do want to
> abide by the rules, but some of the rules have gotten so stringent and out
> of hand it borders on the ridiculous. To say since we as hikers don't want
> off road vehicles on the trails and make it illegal to do so, then we as
> hikers should just accept all the other rules imposed on us by the
> government, including dogs in state and national parks, doesn't hold water.
> I know by first hand experience that horses, pack mules and llamas have a
> MUCH MORE detrimental impact on trails and the back country than do dogs,
> and horses and pack mules are permitted on state and national park back
> country trails, while dogs are not. Please don't misunderstand me, I love
> horses and have ridden horses in the mountains and it is a wonderful way to
> travel: I am just trying to make a point. Horses destroy the trail. Period.
> Dogs do not. After about 2 years of investigating, researching and
> contacting state and federal agencies and speaking with a dozen or so
> employees about the rules and regulations concerning dogs in national
> parks, I finally spoke with a park superintendent that did some research
> and later contacted me ( I was intending to wing it and risk taking my dog
> through national parks, thinking a fine would be minimal ). She told me
> that the penalty for taking a dog in the back country of Sequoia/Kings
> Canyon National Park and Yosemite National Park is a $5000 fine and a
> potential 6 months in jail! WHAT?? Some felonies are not even so severe.
> California is bankrupt. It's revenue for the state. Here's an idea of mine;
> Why not implement a permit system for dogs, that if a hiker is going to
> take a dog through a state or national park they must apply for a permit to
> do so, charging a fee ( revenue ) and explaining some basic rules that will
> be enforced, such as dog must be on leash at all times, bury or pack out
> poop, etc.Just as a hiker must obtain a back country permit, and also in
> California a campfire permit (if you build a campfire ), why not allow dog
> owners to get a permit for their dog? I know it is not a perfect idea or
> solution, and there seems to always be a loophole someone finds. OK, punish
> the bad dog owners, but don't punish the responsible dog owners. Just a
> thought. Mark
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-- 
Vicky Mattson   740-818-6737
vickyandjay.blogspot.com