[pct-l] Deep Creek detour

Wed Dec 14 22:25:44 CST 2011

I agree with Gourmet (we miss you, by the way!) - the Deep Creek Detour was
something of a joke on the rest of the trail this year. Every few days
(such as in the new Station Fire opening, or ALL OF CALIFORNIA between KM
and Sierra City, or the Knife's Edge in WA, and various places in between)
when we would do something way more dangerous than that little stretch of
washed out trail or the "structurally unstable" bridge (like every log over
a creek, ever) someone would say something like, "Hey, remember the Deep
Creek Detour?" and then we would share a hearty belly laugh, but not hearty
enough to knock us off our precarious positions, hopefully.

I was writing angry letters in my head to the PCTA for days. Although I do
understand why a closing like that happens (liability issues, etc). Still
really silly, in my book.

Seahorse

PS: I'm on a roll with replies today. I haven't looked at PCT-l since I
finished the trail, and it's got me a little giddy. Sorry, y'all, I'll need
to sleep soon, I swear.

On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 12:52 AM, Gary Swing <homelessontherange at yahoo.com>wrote:

> When I went through there, there was a hand-written, unsigned note on the
> trail suggesting the detour, with no indication that it was an "official"
> closure from the Forest Service. Damage to the bridge and to the trail was
> insignificant.
>
> --- On Tue, 11/22/11, Elisabeth M. Chaplin <echaplin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Elisabeth M. Chaplin <echaplin at gmail.com>
> Subject: Deep Creek detour
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Cc: "Timothy Nye" <timpnye at gmail.com>, "aslive at charter.net" <
> aslive at charter.net>, "wandering_bob at comcast.net" <
> wandering_bob at comcast.net>, "homelessontherange at yahoo.com" <
> homelessontherange at yahoo.com>, gschenk1 at roadrunner.com, "CHUCK CHELIN" <
> steeleye at wildblue.net>
> Date: Tuesday, November 22, 2011, 10:46 AM
>
>
>
>
> With Jack's blessing, I'm forwarding this to the list. Note the link he
> includes.
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
>
> From: "Jack Haskel" <jhaskel at pcta.org>
> Date: November 21, 2011 5:22:41 PM PST
> To: "Elisabeth M. Chaplin" <echaplin at gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: Deep Creek detour
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> Thanks for the email! I hope that your hike was fantastic. How far did you
> get?
>
> The PCT in the Deep Creek area is and was closed by the San Bernardino
> National Forest. It’s listed on the USFS-San Bernardino NF website
> http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/sbnf/alerts-notices
>
> Is this the most dangerous part of the trail for a hiker?  Probably not.
> But there is a structurally damaged bridge and obliterated tread on the
> PCT. Plus the crumbly area may seem safe, but we've already lost a hiker in
> similar conditions nearby. Caution and the closure is supported by the PCTA.
>
> The reality is that the deep creek area is always crumbling and is a very
> difficult area to maintain a trail in. Hikers may feel comfortable on
> sketchy terrain, but if a bridge is damaged, or a rockslide has obliterated
> the trail, the trail closes because it's not "passable" from an
> engineering/safety perspective. Sketchy situations on the trail usually
> come about because of seasonal/temporary conditions, not trail damage. The
> trail doesn’t close due to seasonal conditions, but it does close for
> things like landslides, broken bridges and fires.
>
> I agree that road walking is by no means ideal. An alternate route was
> needed due to the closure and the current path is the best option. We’re
> grateful that there was a non-paved road walking option as opposed to no
> option at all!
>
> The repair of the trail and the bridge will be expensive, but I hear that
> San Bernardino NF is hoping to fund these projects. It's almost guaranteed
> that the trail will remain closed for spring 2012.
>
> If you ever have any more questions, please feel free to give me a call or
> send me an email.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Jack Haskel
> Trail Information Specialist
> Pacific Crest Trail Association
> ----------------------------------
> 1331 Garden Highway
> Sacramento, CA 95833
> Phone: (916) 285-1846
> Fax: (916) 285-1865
> www.pcta.org
> www.facebook.com/PCTAfan
> www.twitter.com/PCTAssociation
>
>
>
> From: Elisabeth M. Chaplin [mailto:echaplin at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:54 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net; Info
> Cc: Timothy Nye; <gschenk1 at roadrunner.com>
> Subject: Deep Creek detour
>  I think Tim summed it up perfectly. As far as I could ascertain, the
> trail was never legally closed. I hiked half of the detour, which was along
> an OHV recreation area, and not designed and frankly dangerous for foot
> traffic. The other half I hiked along the creek, which presented no hugely
> risky situations in my estimation -- we would encounter much, much more
> dangerous conditions later in the hike. Amongst us hikers it created
> confusion, while damaging the PCTA's credibility. Whose interests were they
> protecting?  I would still like an honest, straightforward explanation from
> the PCTA regarding why they felt a "reroute" was necessary. I presume it
> hasn't been formally addressed if this topic is still floating. Liz, Class
> of 2011.    Timothy Nye wrote: I think that the difference is that the
> PCTA, the organization whoserepresentative 'closed' the trail, I believe
> can really only do so in anadvisory capacity.  The prohibition against
> ATV's I think
>  is regulatory,but I could be wrong.  I will say that with respect to
> closures the Deep Creek posting cost thePCTA credence as far as the hikers
> I was with were concerned.  The storyabout the boy who cried wolf comes to
> mind. A closure should be reservedfor an actual threat to safety beyond
> what one normally encounters on thetrail as a whole, rather than an impact
> on the trail which fails toincrease the risk of it's use to what is
> routinely encountered on othersections.  A warning, rather than a closure,
> with detour offered as achoice,would appear to have been more appropriate
> in this particular case.
>
>
>
>
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:00:25 -0500
> From: <gschenk1 at roadrunner.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Deep Creek Detour
> To: PCT List <pct-l at backcountry.net>, Gary Swing
>    <homelessontherange at yahoo.com>
> Message-ID: <20111121150025.55U92.211202.root at hrndva-web03-z01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> If we are cool with hiking closed trail segments, do we have any right to
> complain about motorbikers using the trail?
>
> What's the difference between hikers ignoring signage and bikers ignoring
> signage?
>
> Just wondering.
> Gary
>
> ---- Gary Swing <homelessontherange at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I really enjoyed the hot springs and the canyon itself was scenic. Like
> Gourmet
>
> (Tim Nye) wrote, there was graffiti in the lower part of the canyon and
>
> a river ford which I didn't see as a significant issue. Perhaps if the
>
> water was colder.... Nobody hassled us when we went through. The hillside
> traverse over the washed out muddy section was a bit annoying, but that was
> nothing compared to obstacles on other sections of the trail! Several
> people we talked to about the detour route complained about the ATV traffic
> on it. We thought the detour was put into place because certain people
> wanted to keep Deep Creek Canyon to themselves.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> "Half Fast"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 11/15/11, Timothy Nye <timpnye at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Timothy Nye <timpnye at gmail.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Deep Creek Detour
>
> To: "Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes" <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>
> Date: Tuesday, November 15, 2011, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
> Well, Half Fast, I don't know if I'd say it was the bast part of the
>
> desert, but it was very scenic.? I ignored the detour, and so apparently
>
> did the steady stream of day trippers carrying in ice chests; by the time
>
> I'd been at the hot springs for five minutes I was the proud possesor of
>
> two Mike's Hard Lemonades and two cans of beer, which the providers were
>
> happy to repossess as empties after I shared them with my friends.
>
>
>
> I concluded that that the detour was actually not for the slide that was to
>
> the south of the river crossing, but for the washed out muddy submerged
>
> section, with a temporary hillside traverse, that streched for part of a
>
> mile north of the crossing.? Law enforcement tried to chase us off the
>
> trail at the crossing, claiming by bullhorn from the dam area that we were
>
> trespassing on private property even though we were on the trail.? We were
>
> subsequently told that there had been a murder in that
>
> area the day before, so that could explain their attitude.? Some of the day
>
> trippers were armed; one had a pistol on his hip and a couple large belted
>
> sheath knives which made me somewhat nervous, (there is spray painted gang
>
> grafitti on the rocks by the trail for part of it) but then they could have
>
> been PCT hikers based on some of the postings here about carrying weapons.
>
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