[pct-l] Gear for sale.

Wed Apr 13 22:03:36 CDT 2011

Hey Brendan,

I sooo badly wanted to score the Camo version but I was totally out of money.

I think your decision on using the HMG Echo should be based upon a
number of things:

Negatives:

(a) you spent a crap load of money on it, if you do not like it can
you sell it quickly and buy something else in time to test it and see
if you like it? (aka: the typical argument for not planning to hike
the PCT months in advance and thoroughly test your gear)

(b) if you do not like head-only entrance tents than this presents problems.

(c) if you are at or around 6 feet tall this thing sucks to move
around in (sitting up and hitting your head, trying to spin around
inside is very hard)

(d) if you just want to use a tarp most of the time, there are a lot
lighter options out there for a cf tarp

(e) the weight of the insert is considerably more than other inserts
out there (but none are even close to being as awesome as this one)

Positives:

(a) the HMG Echo is the most bomb proof tent I have ever used. Nothing
you encounter on the PCT will come close to putting the Echo to a real
test.

(b) like other modular systems, in those areas where you might not
need an insert, you can just take the tarp.

(c) the highest bathtub in the industry. nice for if you have a
massive NeoAir and want to make sure you don't have water come over
the bathtub sidewalls, the Echo is the best out there.

(d) performance-to-weight ratio of the Echo is perhaps the best that
money can buy.

(e) pack ability is significantly smaller compared to TarpTent and MSR
and other tents out there. My ZPacks Hexa/Inset is the only thing I
have found that packs smaller (and only by about 1/2 inch)

Personally I setup both the Tarp and the Insert all the time as I
rarely am able to cowboy camp here in the middle of the Redwood forest
because well, it's a rain forest... it's always raining.

For me, hiking the PCT I suppose it all comes down to two things:

(1) how much weight do I want to carry?
(2) how much comfort do I want to have?

The answer to number one is more and more becoming defined by my
answer to number two. I could just as easily do a decent percentage of
the PCT with a sub 5 lb BPW setup as I could a sub 10. I have the gear
to do both and regularly camp with both. My 3.78 lb setup would
probably work for the vast majority of the PCT with the exception of
the cold regions. Likewise my 7.2 lb setup would work just as well for
probably everywhere on the PCT. But, in all honestly, I have been able
to prove to myself that I have the skills necessary to take it down
really light and do ok (and really, I think most folks getting that
low do it for the education and skills you learn, as I did/have) but
in the end, screw it, I want some comfort in my life - especially if I
am going to be on the trail for weeks (or months).

Just to clarify, I have not yet hiked the PCT - my scheduled start
date is April 2012.

I postponed the PCT this year in an attempt to do the Bigfoot Trail
later this year.

So to try to answer your questions...

Do I think the HMG Echo II is too big? Nope. The tarp might present
problems in some areas that are tight - it is after all a 51” tarp -
and with gidelines you are stretched out to around 75"

At the same time I would answer my own questions about it: Is it
comfortable? The answer to that is yes and no. If you are use to a
nice size entrance and being able to sit up and move around than the
HMG Echo II is going to be ruff - considering this is much more than
just a two or three day trip... 150+ nights you have to spend in your
tent if you do not cowboy camp. But than again, one should not expect
luxury in a system this size.

Compared to my TarpTent Rainbow the Echo (both I and II) are vastly
tighter and smaller. I love the ability to sit up anywhere inside of
my Rainbow and have head room. I love the ability to turn around
inside of it, I love the ability to sleep with my head at either end
of it - all things that are very hard to do with an Echo. But that is
a sacrifice one makes with these tents.

Compared to my ZPacks Hexamid Solo Tarp and Bug Insert, the HMG Echo
II feels like a mansion. But the ZPacks setup is the worlds lightest
double wall tent setup in the world AFAIAA (at 14 oz) and it does just
fine. I just hike the Lost Coast Trail with my ZPacks setup. But you
know what, I had to sacrifice a whole lot of comfort. Getting into it
required I get on all four and literally crawl into the thing (even
harder than getting into the HMG Echo I). There is very little
headroom (less than the Echo I) and while it feels like it has a bit
more room inside than the Echo I, the SMD Gatewood Cape is actually
wider feeling than it is. But again, this is the price we pay for
wanting to go smaller and lighter.

I am just not going to answer "should you take it with you" Brendan.
Sorry. I think it is foolish to hike a 2500 mile trail without having
proven the gear in your pack is what you want in there, what you like,
what works for you. Do not mean to sound like a jerk here and please
do not think that. It is just unimaganable that anybody would want to
hike a trail like this without gear they have time-tested themselves.
I would not trust anybody to recommend gear to me and me hit the trail
without me actually trying it, without proving it - even if it was
recommended by those guys who have hiked the PCT multiple times. So
again, do not mean to not answer your question, I just do not think it
is my place to say whether you should use it - especially considering
you have not even set it up yet... please... get out there and test
your gear before you hit the trail. Once you get that puppy setup you
might realize "man, this sucker rocks" and it will be the last tent
you will ever buy - there is no doubt that the HMG Echo might be the
last tent a person ever needs to buy - it is that awesome.

As for whether I would personally hike the PCT with the HMG Echo 1...
I would say, "heck ya!" At 23 ounces it ranks as perhaps the best
performance-to-weight ratio double wall tent a person could use on the
PCT.

As for whether I would personally hike the PCT with the Echo II I
would probably say "Only if I did not have the Echo I" - the six
ounces plus much wider tarp would be hard to justify if I had both. Of
course, I do have both the Echo I and Echo II so as you can see by my
wanting to sell the Echo I, I have chosen the extra few ounces and
wider footprint - but, if it came down to me having to pick one or the
other for the PCT, I would go with the Echo I. Having spent enough
time in both of them over the last few months, I would sacrifice a few
extra inches of luxury for the savings of the few extra ounces and
smaller footprint.

Anyway, hope that somewhere in all this ramble is something to encourage you.

John

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Brendan Beltz <brendanbeltz at gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you hiking with the Echo II this year? I just bought the Echo II Camo
> System at a discount from HMG, but now that I have it in hand I'm having
> second thoughts. It's bulkier than I expected. It's also maybe a little
> overkill it seems. I was actually thinking about putting it on BPL just to
> recoup the cost (I haven't even been able to set it up yet.) I'm sure
> somebody will want an unused Echo II system for 440. But that leaves me back
> at square one a week before I leave for the trail.
>
> Are you thru-hiking with the thing? Do you use the insert for rain or just
> bugs or neither(the tarp seems big enough without the backwall)? Do you bivy
> instead?  A lighter insert?
>
> I guess I feel like I bought more than I need for this hike. Maybe a twinge
> of buyer's remorse.
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:41 PM, John Abela <pacificcresttrail2011 at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>
>> Hey All,
>>
>> I just posted some new threads at BPL for some gear I am trying to sale...
>>
>> Hyperlight Mountain Gear (HMG) Echo 1
>>
>> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=46029
>>
>> Hyperlight Mountain Gear (HMG) 2010 Windrdider Ultralight pack
>>
>> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=46031
>>
>> INOV8 X-talon 212 Men's Shoes (10.5)
>>
>> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=46032
>>
>> MiniBullDesign Squirrel Cage 600
>>
>> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=44439
>>
>> I also have sitting around:
>> U-Dig-It Stainless-Steel Hand Shovel
>> Ibex Woolies Bottom (large)
>> Ibex Woolies Crew (long sleeve, large)
>> ULA Helix (53cm)
>>
>> Last up is a Nunatak Torre Down Parka - sized XLarge (for layering)
>> and in Epic material and without the hood (for custom balaclava).
>> http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/garments/torre.htm
>> $400 bucks and I will ship it to you... save yourself $250+
>>
>>
>> John B. Abela
>> www.RedwoodOutdoors.Com
>>
>> In God's wildness lies the hope of the world - the great fresh
>> unblighted, unredeemed wilderness. The galling harness of civilization
>> drops off, and wounds heal ere we are aware. ~ John Muir
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