[pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 34, Issue 130
Monte Dodge
montedodge at msn.com
Sat Oct 30 16:26:02 CDT 2010
Got to say in the ultra-light verses turtles comparison.. All gear comes with it's own set of short comings.. A Mt. Everest Climber would not be happy with a 15lb. base weight set up nor would he/she is toasty in a tarp tent type set up.. ( I used a go-light hex 3 on Mt,Rainier this summer as a test) Bottom line is that tent wasn't all that bad but lacked loops for guide lines half way up the sides which made it quite flappy from unsupported fabric.. The worse the weather,, the better the gear needs to be ( heavier down bag,tent,boots,stove,etc ) The set up that may have worked so well in southern in may ,,could be marginal at best in Washington on a wet cold fall year, ( 2004 aka ) or Sierra Spring 1977,,,,, Light is right,, if weather is on your side,,, Life time of winter trips in Washington makes me a " Error On The Heavy Side " type guy,,,,,,,,
> From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net
> Subject: Pct-L Digest, Vol 34, Issue 130
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 15:57:07 -0500
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Passing Crater Lake with a Dog (Edward Anderson)
> 2. Re: Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to hike the
> trail? (Edward Anderson)
> 3. Re: Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to hike the
> trail? (Ron Dye)
> 4. Passing Crater Lake with a Dog (enyapjr at comcast.net)
> 5. Re: Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to hike the
> trail? (Mike Welch)
> 6. Re: Passing Crater Lake with a Dog (David Thibault)
> 7. Re: Passing Crater Lake with a Dog (Mariann)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 11:11:51 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Passing Crater Lake with a Dog
> To: Mariann <mendenhall_mini_farm at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <312976.1736.qm at web111619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hello Mariann,
>
> During my 2008 PCT ride (by horse) I passed through the Oregon Sections that you
> are probably considering.? Keep in mind that dogs are not allowed on certain
> Sections of the PCT.? They are, I think, allowed on the Crater Lake N.P. part of
> Section C.? I rode the original PCT route (not the rim route) ?through the park
> and saw three hikers with dogs. One lady, who had a British accent,?was from
> Zimbabwe. She had a wonderful Corgi dog.?He was on a leash and was exceptionally
> well behaved. ?I saw her on three occasions. The last time when we both camped
> at Red Cone Spring.?I don't know how much of the PCT she was doing. When I got
> to Highway 138 to pick up my food cache I met her husband who was about to hike
> south to meet her. He had asked me if I had seen a lady with a dog.
>
> As far as taking the PCT?Rim route above C. Lake, you won't be allowed to take a
> dog.?I returned this year with my wife and dog and we drove all around the
> lake.? We saw that the trails were well posted - no dogs - not even dogs on a
> leash allowed.? We had to leave our dog in the camper and park in the shade
> -?and take?our hikes to the many view points without him.
>
> We have both?backpacked and horsepacked with dogs along. Some dogs have a hard
> time if it is a warm day.? Unlike humans and horses, they can't cool themselves
> by sweating.? Smaller, lighter, dogs do better than heavier dogs. They also?have
> a hard time on rougher surfaces if they are heavier.?Their feet just won't stand
> up.?Of course if you take your time and don't try for too many miles per day
> they do better.? Bring along boots for them. Also try to toughen your dogs feet
> prior to your hike.?Talk to your vet on that one.?I recall that we used Badadine
> mixed with something else that our vet had recommended.
>
> >From my memory, I think (assuming that it is legal and that you take your time),
> that the surfaces and gradients of sections B,C, and D would be OK to take a
> dog. I resupplied food for myself and my horse (by driving my rig ahead?caching
> at Highways 99, 140, 138 and 58.) The only lava that I remember was along the
> east slope of Brown Mountain (Section B), and a good surface had been laid over
> the trail there. Section E, as you approach McKenzie Pass would be impossible
> with any dog.? The miles of lava is often razor sharp. Don't try it with a dog!
>
> As for seeing Crater Lake, you can hike up the Lightning Springs trail from the
> original PCT to the rim. I rode up that one.?There is a scenic viewpoint there
> with a good view of Wizard Island.? There is also a good campsite at Lightning
> Spring about a mile below the Rim.
>
> Have a good hike,
>
> MendoRider
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mariann <mendenhall_mini_farm at yahoo.com>
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 3:17:49 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Passing Crater Lake with a Dog
>
> Hi All,
> ?
> I am trying to plan a section hike for next summer on the PCT in OR.? I am
> planning to go about 200 miles and will have my dog with me.? Is it possible to
> get a dog through Crater Lake National Park?? It seems I'd be stuck with walking
>
> the road through the park, does the road have any sort of a decent shoulder??
> Has anyone else ever hiked OR PCT with a dog and how did you get past Crater
> Lake??
>
> ?
> Any advice about getting through the park would be wonderful. :)?
> ?
> Thanks,
> Mariann
>
>
> ? ? ?
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 11:14:57 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to
> hike the trail?
> To: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <504565.2888.qm at web111618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> WELL SAID Reinhold!
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> To: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>; Deems <losthiker at sisqtel.net>; MONTE DODGE
> <montedodge at msn.com>; Hiker97 <hiker97 at aol.com>
> Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 3:29:21 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to hike the trail?
>
> Hikers are like family....they are like a "Band of Brothers" and look
> out for each other.
> That is why it always saddens me to see hikers turn against hikers over
> trivial things like hiking style or pack weight.
> When that happens my memory always wanders back to something "Radar"
> (Gary) once said.
>
> Radar once said............"Why must there be a right way and a wrong
> way to hike the trail"?
> Yes, I ask you................. WHY?
> Why can't we all just hike our own way without criticizing each others way.
>
> There will always be "Rabbits" (Ultra-liters)? and? "Turtles" (Heavy?
> Truckers).
> Who is to say that the rabbits way is the better way or that the rabbit
> enjoys its journey more?
> I have been a rabbit and a turtle, enjoyed my? journey either way and
> have come to realize there really is no absolute right way.....what
> works for you is the right way...for you.
>
> I SAY...Let them go on their journey their own merry way....and let them
> enjoy their journey their own special way.
>
> JMT Reinhold
> Your trail companion, enjoying his journeys which ever way
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 13:35:54 -0500
> From: "Ron Dye" <chiefcowboy at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to
> hike the trail?
> To: "'Edward Anderson'" <mendoridered at yahoo.com>, "'Reinhold Metzger'"
> <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <003701cb7861$49a08ad0$dce1a070$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I agree! Amen! Enough bickering! Think about the times you were on the
> trail and how the other hikers greeted you and treated you.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Edward Anderson
> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 1:15 PM
> To: Reinhold Metzger
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to hike the
> trail?
>
> WELL SAID Reinhold!
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> To: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>; Deems <losthiker at sisqtel.net>; MONTE DODGE
> <montedodge at msn.com>; Hiker97 <hiker97 at aol.com>
> Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 3:29:21 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to hike the
> trail?
>
> Hikers are like family....they are like a "Band of Brothers" and look
> out for each other.
> That is why it always saddens me to see hikers turn against hikers over
> trivial things like hiking style or pack weight.
> When that happens my memory always wanders back to something "Radar"
> (Gary) once said.
>
> Radar once said............"Why must there be a right way and a wrong
> way to hike the trail"?
> Yes, I ask you................. WHY?
> Why can't we all just hike our own way without criticizing each others way.
>
> There will always be "Rabbits" (Ultra-liters)? and? "Turtles" (Heavy?
> Truckers).
> Who is to say that the rabbits way is the better way or that the rabbit
> enjoys its journey more?
> I have been a rabbit and a turtle, enjoyed my? journey either way and
> have come to realize there really is no absolute right way.....what
> works for you is the right way...for you.
>
> I SAY...Let them go on their journey their own merry way....and let them
> enjoy their journey their own special way.
>
> JMT Reinhold
> Your trail companion, enjoying his journeys which ever way
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 19:24:01 +0000 (UTC)
> From: enyapjr at comcast.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Passing Crater Lake with a Dog
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <563083625.648025.1288466641782.JavaMail.root at sz0027a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> No matter what others have seen or done, per the Crater Lake NP website:
> "Dogs and other pets are only allowed in developed areas; not on park trails or in the backcountry."
> See <http://www.nps.gov/crla/planyourvisit/upload/2010%20Trails.pdf>...
>
> Hope you can find an alternate way around - or just leave the dog at home or with friends
> to save its feet from the sharp lava cinders on the trails in much of Oregon's Cascades...
>
> Happy trails!!!
> Jim (PITA)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 12:36:57 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mike Welch <encinomw at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to
> hike the trail?
> To: 'Edward Anderson' <mendoridered at yahoo.com>, 'Reinhold Metzger'
> <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>, Ron Dye <chiefcowboy at verizon.net>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <113284.90829.qm at web44804.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Right on...right on..right on! ?Power to the people and the PCT family. ?Mountain Mike
>
> --- On Sat, 10/30/10, Ron Dye <chiefcowboy at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> From: Ron Dye <chiefcowboy at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to hike the trail?
> To: "'Edward Anderson'" <mendoridered at yahoo.com>, "'Reinhold Metzger'" <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Date: Saturday, October 30, 2010, 10:35 AM
>
> I agree!? Amen!? Enough bickering!? Think about the times you were on the
> trail and how the other hikers greeted you and treated you.?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Edward Anderson
> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 1:15 PM
> To: Reinhold Metzger
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to hike the
> trail?
>
> WELL SAID Reinhold!
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> To: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>; Deems <losthiker at sisqtel.net>; MONTE DODGE
> <montedodge at msn.com>; Hiker97 <hiker97 at aol.com>
> Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 3:29:21 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] Why must there be a "Right Way & wrong way" to hike the
> trail?
>
> Hikers are like family....they are like a "Band of Brothers" and look
> out for each other.
> That is why it always saddens me to see hikers turn against hikers over
> trivial things like hiking style or pack weight.
> When that happens my memory always wanders back to something "Radar"
> (Gary) once said.
>
> Radar once said............"Why must there be a right way and a wrong
> way to hike the trail"?
> Yes, I ask you................. WHY?
> Why can't we all just hike our own way without criticizing each others way.
>
> There will always be "Rabbits" (Ultra-liters)? and? "Turtles" (Heavy?
> Truckers).
> Who is to say that the rabbits way is the better way or that the rabbit
> enjoys its journey more?
> I have been a rabbit and a turtle, enjoyed my? journey either way and
> have come to realize there really is no absolute right way.....what
> works for you is the right way...for you.
>
> I SAY...Let them go on their journey their own merry way....and let them
> enjoy their journey their own special way.
>
> JMT Reinhold
> Your trail companion, enjoying his journeys which ever way
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
>
> ? ? ?
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
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>
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> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
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> List Archives:
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 12:42:08 -0700
> From: David Thibault <dthibaul07 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Passing Crater Lake with a Dog
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=62_EW-NxvZ=Ywa=Y+xAy-4LYi0+7VOXp7C1s4 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Buckeye.
>
> Maybe its just me but Oregon seemed a lot darker in your photos than I
> remember.
>
> (All I see is black - probably an Apple microsoft thing?)
>
>
> .
> >
> > Re: [pct-l] Passing Crater Lake with a Dog
> >
> > .
> > never hiked with a dog for long distances in Oregon.
> >
> > Here are two pics from our photo albums that show the terrain.
> >
> >
> > http://gallery.me.com/mamacher#100237/August%209%202010%20Imagine%20building%20this%20trail%21&bgcolor=black
> >
> >
> > http://gallery.me.com/mamacher#100237/August%2017%202010%20Middle%20and%20Northern%20sister&bgcolor=black
> >
> > Happy Trails,
> > Buckeye
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 13:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mariann <mendenhall_mini_farm at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Passing Crater Lake with a Dog
> To: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <163295.3436.qm at web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi MendoRider and Everyone who has been so helpful :)
>
> Thanks so much for the info!? It is kinda sounding like I could get away with
> taking the lower trail, but it isn't actually legal.? I'm unsure exactly what I
> am going to do. :)??Right now I am leaning toward hiking sections F & G,
> instead, and saving B, C & D for another year.?
>
>
> As far as my dog, she is a young bluetick coonhound, the racey style with long
> legs and light weight.? I run her 3 to 5 days a week right now from 3 to 10
> miles a run, but before I hit the trail next summer I will up those milages and
> start her training with her pack.? I have leather booties for her that she will
> wear if needed.? I'm only planning to be on the trail for 2 weeks, but at some
> point before my hike I will take a week and do a lot of back to back high milage
> days to make sure her (and my) endurance with our packs on is where I want it to
> be.? I don't anticipate any problems for her, but if she doesn't handle the
> trail well I won't hesitate to cut my hike short.?
>
>
> I have actually taken a dog through section E before, but I was very, very
> careful to keep her feet covered with leather booties and check them
> frequently.? She came through fine, although she was a bit tired she didn't get
> any cuts and showed no excessive wear on her pads.? She did lose a leather
> bootie at one point, but I'd brought 4 extras so that wasn't?a problem.? She was
> a short legged, heavy black labrador, so I ended up carrying her pack by the
> last day as she was seeming a little trail weary.? I'm excited to hike with a
> long legged, light dog!?
>
>
> Thanks again for all the advice and Happy Trails!!
>
> Mariann
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> To: Mariann <mendenhall_mini_farm at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Sat, October 30, 2010 11:11:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Passing Crater Lake with a Dog
>
>
> Hello Mariann,
>
> During my 2008 PCT ride (by horse) I passed through the Oregon Sections that you
> are probably considering.? Keep in mind that dogs are not allowed on certain
> Sections of the PCT.? They are, I think, allowed on the Crater Lake N.P. part of
> Section C.? I rode the original PCT route (not the rim route) ?through the park
> and saw three hikers with dogs. One lady, who had a British accent,?was from
> Zimbabwe. She had a wonderful Corgi dog.?He was on a leash and was exceptionally
> well behaved. ?I saw her on three occasions. The last time when we both camped
> at Red Cone Spring.?I don't know how much of the PCT she was doing. When I got
> to Highway 138 to pick up my food cache I met her husband who was about to hike
> south to meet her. He had asked me if I had seen a lady with a dog.
>
> As far as taking the PCT?Rim route above C. Lake, you won't be allowed to take a
> dog.?I returned this year with my wife and dog and we drove all around the
> lake.? We saw that the trails were well posted - no dogs - not even dogs on a
> leash allowed.? We had to leave our dog in the camper and park in the shade
> -?and take?our hikes to the many view points without him.
>
> We have both?backpacked and horsepacked with dogs along. Some dogs have a hard
> time if it is a warm day.? Unlike humans and horses, they can't cool themselves
> by sweating.? Smaller, lighter, dogs do better than heavier dogs. They also?have
> a hard time on rougher surfaces if they are heavier.?Their feet just won't stand
> up.?Of course if you take your time and don't try for too many miles per day
> they do better.? Bring along boots for them. Also try to toughen your dogs feet
> prior to your hike.?Talk to your vet on that one.?I recall that we used Badadine
> mixed with something else that our vet had recommended.
>
> >From my memory, I think (assuming that it is legal and that you take your time),
> that the surfaces and gradients of sections B,C, and D would be OK to take a
> dog. I resupplied food for myself and my horse (by driving my rig ahead?caching
> at Highways 99, 140, 138 and 58.) The only lava that I remember was along the
> east slope of Brown Mountain (Section B), and a good surface had been laid over
> the trail there. Section E, as you approach McKenzie Pass would be impossible
> with any dog.? The miles of lava is often razor sharp. Don't try it with a dog!
>
> As for seeing Crater Lake, you can hike up the Lightning Springs trail from the
> original PCT to the rim. I rode up that one.?There is a scenic viewpoint there
> with a good view of Wizard Island.? There is also a good campsite at Lightning
> Spring about a mile below the Rim.
>
> Have a good hike,
>
> MendoRider
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mariann <mendenhall_mini_farm at yahoo.com>
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 3:17:49 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Passing Crater Lake with a Dog
>
> Hi All,
> ?
> I am trying to plan a section hike for next summer on the PCT in OR.? I am
> planning to go about 200 miles and will have my dog with me.? Is it possible to
> get a dog through Crater Lake National Park?? It seems I'd be stuck with walking
>
> the road through the park, does the road have any sort of a decent shoulder??
> Has anyone else ever hiked OR PCT with a dog and how did you get past Crater
> Lake??
>
> ?
> Any advice about getting through the park would be wonderful. :)?
> ?
> Thanks,
> Mariann
>
>
> ? ? ?
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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