[pct-l] quick question on my hiking performance

Thu Oct 28 17:32:35 CDT 2010

Hi Ned,

I'm sorry, I don't have Half Ounce's contact information.  I can only offer
the following.

My daughter Elaine and I met Half Ounce on Section P and camped with him for
a night.  He told the story although I'm sure it must have seemed stale to
him by then through sheer repitition.  He was unaware of the dangers of the
falling tempatures of night time that result in decreased barometric
pressure and mimic a further ascent rather than a decrease in altitud which
is the most important immediate treatment for HAPE. He noted that
immediately preceding it's onset he had descended and spent a couple of
days in town before the ascent and the initial onset of symptoms that
afternoon.  He breathing worsened while propped up against a tree during the
night.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 10:22 AM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:

> Hey, Tim!
>
> Were you in the evac of Half Ounce? Do you know how we can get the full
> story for our future instruction?
>
>
>
> "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education
> 1106A Ski Run Blvd
> South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
>   P: 888-996-8333
>   F: 530-541-1456
>   C: 530-721-1551
>   http://www.mountaineducation.org
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Nye" <timpnye at gmail.com>
> To: "Scott Williams" <baidarker at gmail.com>
>
> Cc: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 8:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] quick question on my hiking performance
>
>
>
> Mark, I just wanted to add in addition to my previous private post, that
> Half Ounce attributed his HAPE to his having droped down off of the trail
> for a couple of days before it's onset.  That this can make one more
> susceptible to HAPE is verified by other posts.
>
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> For me, the most important thing I did prior to starting last April, was
>> not
>> my choice of gear, pack weight, or shoes, but was to train hard, and for
>> many months before setting foot on the PCT.  I'm just about to turn 58,
>> and
>> when the endorphins get rolling, I have a propensity to just keep going
>> because it feels good, and then find myself with an overuse injury.  This
>> didn't seem to happen when I was younger, but it does now.  I trained at
>> between 10 and 20 miles 3 to 4 days per week, with a 4000 foot elevation
>> gain.Even so, when I started I still didn't go over 10 to 12 miles per day
>> the first week.  The second week I upped it to 15 to 17 or so, and by the
>> third week was over 20 miles per day.  This may have been overly cautious,
>> but I know how quickly I can kill myself when I'm feeling good on the
>> trail.  On full hiking days, except in the High Sierra where the snow
>> really
>> slowed us down, I ended up doing 23 to 28 miles per day in most of CA.  By
>> Oregon we were mostly over 30 and up to nearly 35, as the trail is simply
>> much easier.  Everyone I loosely hiked with got into a pattern of hiking
>> all
>> day, stopping for dinner on the trail, and then hiking an hour, or two in
>> the evening before pitching camp.  By WA we were making a bit less as the
>> trail is tougher, and the days shorter, but started out at 27 to 30 still.
>> Speeds varied by terrain and goal, but were usually in the 2.5 to 3.5
>> range.  One afternoon when we realized we could physically make the bus at
>> 6pm into Stehekin, which meant a bed at the lodge and a good dinner, we
>> trail ran for hours on a mostly downhill trail, and made it with time to
>> spare.   We were well over 4mph that afternoon.  So Mark, I think you are
>> well on your way to a great hike of the JMT and TRT.
>>
>> There's still plenty of time for training, and John, I train at sea level
>> to
>> 4000 ft. which isn't much, but by the time you get into the high country,
>> you will have lots of mid elevation hiking and relatively slow ascents,
>> over
>> a day or two, to get used to real altitude.  It can still be an issue as
>> became clear when Turbo and The Kern had to help Half Ounce, off of
>> Forester
>> Pass when he developed altitude sickness.  He is a very experienced hiker,
>> but was airlifted out of the high country near the Kern River in early
>> June.
>>
>> Steel-Eye's mileage estimates are right on, and his comment of hiking
>> versus
>> camping became a real joke with us by WA.  Whenever we purposely pitched
>> camp early, we would all joke that we were finally "backpacking" and not
>> "thru hiking."  It simply felt so restful and enjoyable.  We all promised
>> ourselves that next summer we were going "camping."  The time factor is
>> real, and we didn't want to make it to Manning Park too late, given that
>> "the predominant season in the North Cascades is winter," as we were so
>> eloquently told by a North Cascade local who was south bounding.  Our last
>> 2
>> 1/2 weeks in WA were in drizzle, temps in the 50's and 60's during the
>> day.
>> Within 2 days of crossing into Canada on Sept 17th, however, the temps had
>> dropped into the 20's and our friends who were within a week of us all
>> came
>> out in white out, and some in blizzard conditions.  I was glad to have
>> been
>> able to push at relatively high miles, and with fewer zeroes than I had
>> planned.  I found that I really liked being on the trail, and simply
>> didn't
>> need the rest of a zero as often as I had thought.
>>
>> Good question,  thanks.
>>
>> Shroomer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Mark Hudson <mhudson89521 at att.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I have wondered the same thing all year.  I have been really working to
>> get
>> > in shape all this year so as a result I always wondered where I fit in
>> with
>> > the through hiker crowd.
>> >
>> > I still don’t know the answer to that question but I can tell you what >
>> my
>> > wife, my 13 year old son and I average now.
>> >
>> > We each carry about 10-15lbs on day hikes each.  We average around 15
>> miles
>> > on hikes with more and more days going over 20.
>> >
>> > We are usually above 7K with hikes going to 10.6 K  Most elevations are
>> > between 7500-9100 I would say.
>> >
>> > we usually encounter around 3000 feet of elevation gain in a given day,
>> > with
>> > some days reaching 5K.
>> >
>> > on a recent 20 mile day with elevation gains in the 5K range I averaged
>> 2.5
>> > mph.  on a recent 15 mile day with 3K elevation gains I averaged 3.3 mph
>> >
>> > I use a gps to measure my speed for my own purposes, as I want to see >
>> how
>> I
>> > have progressed over the summer.  Our goal is to hike the JMT and TRT
>> next
>> > year and to fit that into our vacation schedule we need to hike over 20
>> > miles each day, so that’s what we are training for.
>> >
>> > My brother in law is a pct grad and he makes me look like an old fat man
>> > when he hikes with us...so long story short, I have found I have to hike
>> my
>> > own hike, but I still like to know how I measure up... so I responded to
>> > your post as a result.
>> >
>> > As an aside, I wouldn’t use this as any sort of step or or step down
>> > measure, I would simply decide what my hiking goals where in terms of
>> miles
>> > per day, then decide what average length of time I wanted to hike each
>> day,
>> > and do the math on mph.  then train for that goal.  that’s all we are
>> > doing.
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: John Abela
>> > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 6:09 PM
>> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> > Subject: [pct-l] quick question on my hiking performance
>> >
>> > Hey All,
>> >
>> > I know the issue of "hiking speed" is not one of those issues that is
>> > really
>> > an issue... so please do not think I am all hung up on this issue - >
>> grin.
>> >
>> > And, I know that there are a ton of factors that go into this issue, >
>> this
>> > is
>> > just me trying to get a feel for what most of you out there are able to
>> do
>> > on a daily basis.
>> >
>> > Basically what I am looking for is thoughts on whether my performance is
>> > where it should be or if I should "pick it up" a bit more... you know...
>> > man
>> > up and all that.
>> >
>> >
>> > Just to be clear and honest... the vast majority of my hiking is between
>> > zero elevation (lots of trails under 100 feet here in the Redwoods) and
>> > 2000
>> > feet.... so, pretty much all sea level hiking at this point... kinda
>> woosie
>> > in that regards.
>> >
>> >
>> > What I have been doing is 10-12 mile trips - with a total pack weight of
>> > 12-18 (water dependent) - and I have been doing 4 miles per two hours
>> with
>> > an average of 1000 feet elevation changes.
>> >
>> >
>> > So anyway, just wondering if that is decent or if that is really >
>> pathetic
>> > and I need to suck it up some more and push myself a bit harder.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
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