[pct-l] Giardia

Sat Oct 23 13:53:54 CDT 2010

Good morning,  Michael,

What hikers will find on this list is mostly opinion; however it’s likely to
be the opinion of a bright, thoughtful individual who has booked many
thousands of miles on the PCT -- probably over many years.  Good luck in
challenging someone else’s opinion; it’s rarely successful -- almost like
trying to punch a cloud.

We all know that the variables associated with trail illness are many and
daunting:  Reporting is likely inconsistent, misleading, incomplete, or
possible just plain wrong.  Beat that quality of data against “expert”
technical opinions – which also vary greatly – and what is there to do?  Most
people rightfully go back to the beginning and just ask the opinion of
someone who’s “been there; done that” because that’s about as good as it
gets.  Pick an answer you like from a person you trust and go with it.

Enjoy,

Steel-Eye

Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965

http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye

http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Michael <michael at leftcoastman.com> wrote:

> I don't want to get into an argument with anyone here, specifically because
> I am the noobie, but I cannot let pseudoscience (that is a claim, belief, or
> practice posing as science, but which does not constitute or adhere to an
> appropriate scientific methodology) fly by without a comment.
>
> Polio–This is a highly contagious virus that afflicted around 50,000
> Americans a year across all socio-economic groups until the Polio vaccine
> became a standard part of childhood vaccinations.  Utilizing a medical
> search, a service that gives me access to every peer-reviewed publication
> across the world (going back at least 90 years), and using the search terms
> "polio hypersterile", I found not one hit.  I don't use Wikipedia or the
> University of Google for my information.  Further, Polio is so contagious
> that you don't develop immunity, you get the disease.  It would be
> ridiculous to believe that you can get "exposure" to someone who had polio
> and not get it.  The virus is too virulent, so exposure leads to the
> disease, it does not provide immunity.  This sounds like the
> anti-vaccination crowd prevalent in our part of California, and which has
> lead to over 200 deaths of children who have gotten pertussis, a disease I
> haven't personally seen in 30 years.
>
> Ringworm–I did the same thing for this fungal infection (which causes what
> we call ringworm, athletes foot, jack itch and other infections), and the
> result was similar.  The only hit I got that said it might help was from a
> Journal of Alternative Medicine that is summarily dismissed for it's
> pseudoscience.  In fact, most of the articles showed long term infection
> from ringworm and other skin fungi may actually lead to autoimmune diseases
> such as arthritis.
>
> Once again, I stand by my statement.  Exposure to virulent diseases only
> gets you sick.  Period.  If there was any scientific rationale in keeping
> humans exposed to bacteria, viruses and parasites, then we should quit
> spending billions of dollars on our water system, and invest it in PCT
> police to keep the mountain bikers away (which is one of my pet peeves,
> despite loving mountain biking myself).  Let's say you're partially correct,
> that we should get some infections.  The problem is twofold:  what are the
> "good" infections, and what about the scientific fact that any disease has
> some known and significant rate of mortality?  We can't, and that's why we
> live 70-80 years, and we lived for 40, 100 years ago.
>
> As for drinking water if you're dying of dehydration, your point is what?
>  I would say the same thing.
>
> And please, anecdotes and appeals to authority aren't productive.  You say
> you know a huge number of people who didn't get sick.  Is that published
> somewhere so I can review?  What exactly is the number?  How many got sick
> and didn't tell you personally?  Did you survey everyone who passed through
> to determine the healthy group v the group who got sick?
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 10:00 :03PDT, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:30:11 -0700
> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Giardia
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>        <C5EA5A38-606B-4A0D-A3D5-04AD572F2DD9 at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Oct 22, 2010, at 9:11 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>
> > And whoever said we need germs to stay healthy really shouldn't say
> > something like that.
>
> Just two examples:
>
> Polio - turned out that hyper sterile environments prevented children
> from exposure to polio when they were younger and better able to form
> an immunity
>
> Ringworm - turns out people who have gotten ringworm don't get
> arthritis or other auto-immune disorders. We evolved with a lot of
> these organisms we now fear and do not fully understand the symbiosis
> that may be present with any number of them.
>
> We're not talking smallpox here. We're talking about people going
> overboard in fear of germs in the water. I suggest using products
> like aquamira or a filter as per the instructions and then not
> worrying about it any further. As a Sierra Club hike leader in an
> arid part of the country, I always recommend to people to drink the
> water, unfiltered if you have to, rather than go without and risk
> dehydration or worse. You may get sick, but you can be treated. They
> still don't have a cure for death.
>
> Meanwhile, I know that a huge number of PCT hikers do not treat all
> their water and don't get sick. I was one of them.
>
> Also, there's a good article out there from the Sacramento Bee about
> water purity in the High Sierra and elsewhere.
> http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/25/2703875/bee-exclusive-livestock-
> waste.html
>
>
>
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