[pct-l] Giardia

[Ron Dye]

When did this become a medical forum?

HIKING HIKING HIKING

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 1:20 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Giardia

I don't want to get into an argument with anyone here, specifically because
I am the noobie, but I cannot let pseudoscience (that is a claim, belief, or
practice posing as science, but which does not constitute or adhere to an
appropriate scientific methodology) fly by without a comment.

Polio-This is a highly contagious virus that afflicted around 50,000
Americans a year across all socio-economic groups until the Polio vaccine
became a standard part of childhood vaccinations.  Utilizing a medical
search, a service that gives me access to every peer-reviewed publication
across the world (going back at least 90 years), and using the search terms
"polio hypersterile", I found not one hit.  I don't use Wikipedia or the
University of Google for my information.  Further, Polio is so contagious
that you don't develop immunity, you get the disease.  It would be
ridiculous to believe that you can get "exposure" to someone who had polio
and not get it.  The virus is too virulent, so exposure leads to the
disease, it does not provide immunity.  This sounds like the
anti-vaccination crowd prevalent in our part of California, and which has
lead to over 200 deaths of children who have gotten pertussis, a disease I
haven't personally seen in 30 years.

Ringworm-I did the same thing for this fungal infection (which causes what
we call ringworm, athletes foot, jack itch and other infections), and the
result was similar.  The only hit I got that said it might help was from a
Journal of Alternative Medicine that is summarily dismissed for it's
pseudoscience.  In fact, most of the articles showed long term infection
from ringworm and other skin fungi may actually lead to autoimmune diseases
such as arthritis.

Once again, I stand by my statement.  Exposure to virulent diseases only
gets you sick.  Period.  If there was any scientific rationale in keeping
humans exposed to bacteria, viruses and parasites, then we should quit
spending billions of dollars on our water system, and invest it in PCT
police to keep the mountain bikers away (which is one of my pet peeves,
despite loving mountain biking myself).  Let's say you're partially correct,
that we should get some infections.  The problem is twofold:  what are the
"good" infections, and what about the scientific fact that any disease has
some known and significant rate of mortality?  We can't, and that's why we
live 70-80 years, and we lived for 40, 100 years ago.

As for drinking water if you're dying of dehydration, your point is what?  I
would say the same thing.

And please, anecdotes and appeals to authority aren't productive.  You say
you know a huge number of people who didn't get sick.  Is that published
somewhere so I can review?  What exactly is the number?  How many got sick
and didn't tell you personally?  Did you survey everyone who passed through
to determine the healthy group v the group who got sick?  


On Oct 23, 2010, at 10:00 :03PDT, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:30:11 -0700
From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Giardia
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
	<C5EA5A38-606B-4A0D-A3D5-04AD572F2DD9 at santabarbarahikes.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Oct 22, 2010, at 9:11 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:

> And whoever said we need germs to stay healthy really shouldn't say  
> something like that.

Just two examples:

Polio - turned out that hyper sterile environments prevented children  
from exposure to polio when they were younger and better able to form  
an immunity

Ringworm - turns out people who have gotten ringworm don't get  
arthritis or other auto-immune disorders. We evolved with a lot of  
these organisms we now fear and do not fully understand the symbiosis  
that may be present with any number of them.

We're not talking smallpox here. We're talking about people going  
overboard in fear of germs in the water. I suggest using products  
like aquamira or a filter as per the instructions and then not  
worrying about it any further. As a Sierra Club hike leader in an  
arid part of the country, I always recommend to people to drink the  
water, unfiltered if you have to, rather than go without and risk  
dehydration or worse. You may get sick, but you can be treated. They  
still don't have a cure for death.

Meanwhile, I know that a huge number of PCT hikers do not treat all  
their water and don't get sick. I was one of them.

Also, there's a good article out there from the Sacramento Bee about  
water purity in the High Sierra and elsewhere.
http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/25/2703875/bee-exclusive-livestock- 
waste.html



_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/