[pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 29, Issue 65
rak2329 at aol.com
rak2329 at aol.com
Fri May 14 22:34:29 CDT 2010
Loved the picture hope to see you all in AD. Laying here on the desert floor near I-10. Tired after coming off Fuller Ridge.
Nuclear
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 12:00:03
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 29, Issue 65
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: pct-l] footwear weight, was UL danger (CHUCK CHELIN)
2. Re: Determining how much food to take
(Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com)
3. May 15th Start Date (Brandon Blevins)
4. Re: May 15th Start Date (CHUCK CHELIN)
5. Stehekin to Rainey Pass (Michael Riter)
6. Re: Deep Creek Hot Springs (Herb)
7. Re: Stehekin to Rainey Pass (Bob Bankhead)
8. Stehekin to Rainey Pass (Sean 'Miner' Nordeen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:43:49 -0700
From: CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] pct-l] footwear weight, was UL danger
To: Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, abiegen at cox.net
Message-ID:
<AANLkTin8bOhQskfvfTAED1Wb7p2td7oMIhglxFLSMrNy at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Good evening,
For those among you that have read and analyzed this and other similar
reports, upon what grades were the data taken and what conclusions did the
grade sensitivity support?
Steel-Eye
Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT ? 1965
http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Yoshihiro Murakami <
completewalker at gmail.com> wrote:
> There were a modulator variable --- Walking speed. The importance of
> boots weight depend on the walking speed. This might be the crucial
> points to interpret the footwear experiments.
>
> Legg & Mahanty(1986) studied only five subjects on three conditions:
> No load / boots(1.5Kg) VO2 resulted 0.85
> Backpack(24.9Kg)/ boots(1.5Kg) VO2 resulted 1.17
> Backpack(24.9Kg) boots(5.1Kg) VO2 resulted 1.57
> Their conclusion that each 100g increase in weight of footwear results
> 0.7-1.0% increase in VO2 is based on this data. So, the caution needed
> to interpret their conclusion. Today, no one wear such a heavy boots.
>
> Holewijin et al.( 1992) carried out their experiments and summed up
> the previous studies. I read this paper yesterday (I cannot do my work
> !), and realized that no complicated situation exists.
> Their conclusion is: "the mass of footwear resulted in an increase
> in the expenditure which was a factor 1.9-4.7 times greater than that
> of a kilogram of body mass, depending on sex and walking speed".
> They plotted the 6 experiments ( including 5 previous experiments )
> by the walking speed and the oxygen uptake. The range of walking speed
> was 4 to 12 Km/hr. The regression line was calculated. They said
> "walking velocity affects dramatically the VO2 per kilogram shoe
> mass". To put it briefly, the importance of footwear weight is 1.9 at
> 4 km/hr, but 4.7 at 12Km/hr.
>
> The economical walking speed must be between 4 and 5 Km/hr, based on
> the previous experiments. So, when the footwear experiments, carried
> out in this economical speed range, resulted sometimes no statistical
> difference of VO2 , because the importance of footwear is minimum.
>
> Abe et al.(2008) also indicated the economical speed is 3.6-4.8Km/hr,
> based their load carriage experiments.
>
> My conclusion is:
> The footwear weight is important for the speed hiker ( 6 Km/hr or more ).
> The footwear weight in not so important as previously expected for
> adequate walking speed ( 3.6 - 4.8 Km/hr )
> More slower walking speed resulted more energy consumption.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2010/5/14 <abiegen at cox.net>:
> >
> >>From: "giniajim" <jplynch at crosslink.net>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] footwear weight, was UL danger
> > To: "Len Glassner" <len5742 at gmail.com>, "Yoshihiro Murakami"
> > <completewalker at gmail.com>
> > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Message-ID: <9493944E07CB4D8A85C26FB2B88C2FAD at HomePC>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > For what its worth, the most efficient speed on these charts seems to be
> about
> > 80 meters per minute which is about 3 miles per hour. I wonder if that's
> an
> >>efficient gait that developed over millions of years of human evolution?
> >
> > My guess is yes. I remember reading another study a few years back that
> was done showing that walking/hiking faster uses less energy. The optimum
> speed was around 3 miles an hour. I picked up my pace because of that. So as
> you pass slower hikers who are complaining that the hike is so hard - keep
> in mind that for them, yes it is hard - at the pace they are going. If you
> can gently let them know that it would be easier if they were going faster,
> it might help them. Of course, everyone has different length legs, fitness
> levels, etc. so emphasize the gentle part. It is also another reason to go
> light. Heavy loads slow you down and by slowing down you are working hard
> plus you are working harder carrying the load - a double hit on your energy
> level.
> >
> > An interesting aside OT - another study looked at students who were good
> at math skills and those that found math "hard." Looking at oxygen usage,
> the ones that found math hard were using more oxygen than those that found
> it easy. So again, when your kids say they hate math because it is too hard
> - it's true. It is too hard for them because their brains are consuming more
> energy and working harder.
> >
> > TrailHacker
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely
> --------------- --------------------------------------
> Hiro ( Yoshihiro Murakami )
> HP:http://psycho01.edu.u-toyama.ac.jp
> http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
> Backpacking for 30 years in Japan
> 2009 JMT, the first America.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 06:13:55 -0700
From: Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com
<diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Determining how much food to take
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<3FF7ADC0-60FB-4A5C-834D-1716F74F3D9B at santabarbarahikes.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
On May 13, 2010, at 8:49 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> Does any one know how I figure out how much dehydrated food to pack
> if I need a pound of food a day? I will be generally eating
> oatmeal w/pwd milk for breakfast, soup for lunch, gorp and peanut
> butter as needed throughout the day.
> Sherry
A pound a day might be okay for the first few weeks but after that
you'll need a pound and a half or more. I never needed quite two
pounds every single day. That's a lot of food to me.
The way I figured it out was to actually measure it. I had a small
bowl for breakfast so I filled it up with my grapenuts, one bowl for
each breakfast. Dumped that into a big bag. I tested the dried milk
and figured out that it tasted pretty good with 2 heaping spoonfuls
of powdered milk so I counted out spoonfuls into a bag of powdered milk.
Counted out snacks, dinners, desserts.
I never weighed the food to determine exactly pounds. I mostly walked
myself through a day and tossed in what I wanted to eat for the day.
Eventually I saw it like at home. At home I look in the cupboard and
if there's nothing to eat I go shopping. I'd still count out the
packets of dinner, cookies, candy, bowls of cereal, but I really just
eyeballed a lot of it, especially things you carry in bulk like
tortillas and peanut butter, but also the cereal. Long stretch, big
box of grapenuts. Short stretch, little box.
Never saw a scorpion. If you are tarping you might get ants. Welcome
to Giant Ant World. They don't bite but they are curious and they
tickle.
Books I've written:
~ Piper's Flight
~ Adventure and Magic
~ Santa Barbara Hikes
http://stores.lulu.com/dianesoini
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:22:34 -0400
From: Brandon Blevins <brandonrblevins at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] May 15th Start Date
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikULUdhVwdgytpEOfnEego5VRB6mFTwINhdnmKh at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Two Tennesseans flying to S.D. tonight and arriving at the border early AM
with an open mind and sense for adventure.
Here's to y'all and all the information shared over the past several months.
Here's to us the sweet southern draw we will be bringing to the trail.
See you out there!
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:51:54 -0700
From: CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] May 15th Start Date
To: Brandon Blevins <brandonrblevins at gmail.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimWhWpdyj-dI0OGNA3xpZYmOE8pXBQDTCLyPMRU at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Good morning, Brandon,
Here?s hoping you both enjoy your summer of adventure, however N. Dakota is
closer to the border than S. Dakota. I can understand heading for someplace
high-and-dry to escape having to wade through waist-deep water in Tennessee.
S. Dakota is a better choice than somewhere with a bigger problem ? like
California ? where the same amount of water is in the form of tree-top-deep
snow.
Enjoy?.
Steel-Eye
Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT ? 1965
http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 6:22 AM, Brandon Blevins
<brandonrblevins at gmail.com>wrote:
> Two Tennesseans flying to S.D. tonight and arriving at the border early AM
> with an open mind and sense for adventure.
>
> Here's to y'all and all the information shared over the past several
> months.
> Here's to us the sweet southern draw we will be bringing to the trail.
>
> See you out there!
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
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> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 10:53:21 -0400
From: Michael Riter <gatorisland at comcast.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Stehekin to Rainey Pass
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <81CB4DF8-8D48-4A80-9C47-DA1183BE7EDE at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Can someone please let me know the milage between Stehekin and Rainey Pass in Washington's Section K? Thanks.
Always Look Up
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 8:54:10 -0700
From: Herb <herbstroh at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Deep Creek Hot Springs
To: Pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20100514115410.L88M6.6225841.root at mp12>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Ikem--
The trail from the Arrowhead side is off of 173. If you are coming down from Arrowhead you go past the shooting range. There is a bridge over a dry creek, after which 173 becomes a narrow road winding down to Hesperia. Park at the bridge and pick up the trail there. The trail may be hard to track in a few places since the fire. It is probably 3 miles, and is some work going up and down the hills. The trail joins the PCT about 1/4 mile above the hot springs. Head down stream and enjoy a good soak.
Hitching to this spot would be tough. There are off-road folks and, in season, hunters traveling that route but traffic can be scarce on a weekday.
You could also pick up the PCT at the base of the mountain where 173 heading toward Arrowhead turns into a dirt road. That would be about a 7-8 mile hike up canyon to the hot springs.
Above the main pool near the trail there is a spring with cold water. That is a great place to fill up a water bottle for drinking while in the pools.
The rangers do check for overnighters, but they tend to do enforcements on the weekends. I met a guy there once who claimed to have spent about 2 weeks camping out at the springs. The rangers come in from Bowen Ranch, and you can see them coming down the trail--so he would just high tail it up canyon until he saw them leave.
I suppose you know its clothing optional at the springs. In fact, I have seen hikers coming down from Bowen with nothing but shoes and a pack on.
Herb
---- Amanda L Silvestri <aslive at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Ikem
>
> The side trail is from Bowen Ranch reached through the town of Hespperia. You can't hitch there, you gotta drive as it is off the beaten track. If you rent a car, take HWY 173 to Hespperia's Main St. Go East past Deep Creak Rd., but do not take it as it dead ends miles from where you want to go. Continue on as Main St. becomes Rockspring Rd. You are in desert now and there are a few housed some distance from one another. Come to Bowen Ranch Road and turn right. Follow this a few miles to the ranch where you will pay for parking. Follow the trail down into the canyon to the hot springs.
>
> You can also get there from Arrowhead but the hike is much longer and you will need a map obtained from the Forest Service.
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:12:52 -0700
From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Stehekin to Rainey Pass
To: "Michael Riter" <gatorisland at comcast.net>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <AAE002EBFC1D4D308CEA6A8C2E029585 at BOB>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
To answer your question, 25 miles.
It's 14.5 PCT miles from the Bridge Creek trailhead at the Stehekin River Road to Rainy Pass.
It's another 10.6 miles down the road to Stehekin itself, although there is a NPS shuttle bus service that runs along that route. Catch it at High Bridge Ranger Station.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Riter
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 7:53 AM
Subject: [pct-l] Stehekin to Rainey Pass
Can someone please let me know the milage between Stehekin and Rainey Pass in Washington's Section K? Thanks.
Always Look Up
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 09:28:23 -0700
From: "Sean 'Miner' Nordeen" <sean at lifesadventures.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Stehekin to Rainey Pass
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <D3F52947A1D248C89C67448ABB80A36D at SeanDeskTop>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The distance from High Bridge where the Stehekin shuttle bus drops you off to Rainy Pass is 19.7 according to the databook. Last year, I camped at Rainy Pass the same day I left Stehekin and based on the time I started and stopped, this seems correct to me.
-Miner
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check my 2009 PCT Journal out at http://www.pct2009.lifesadventures.net/Journal.php
------------------------------
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