[pct-l] Puff Daddy & Notorious F.L.Eece

Tue Mar 30 10:16:15 CDT 2010

Good morning, Ryan,

It’s unclear if you’re asking about garments or sleeping bags so I’ll opine
about both:

*Sleeping Bags –* The very best, and I believe overall most satisfactory,
bag insulation for a long-distance hiker is good quality, high-loft down
because it provides the most insulation-per-weight of any of the
options.  Unfortunately,
high-quality down items are ruinously expensive, but it’s one of the few
places where I spend the big buck.  Some of the better names are Feathered
Friends, Western Mountaineering, and Marmot.

The various synthetic down-cousins are certainly reasonable and popular
options but expect an equivalent synthetic-filled bag to weigh as much as
50% more than a down bag.  Part of that difference is in the greater weight
of the insulation and part is due to the weight of the fabrics, zippers, and
other “features” used in its construction.  Makers know that synthetic bags
are usually aimed at the less weight-conscious buyer so they may use heaver
– but less costly – materials.

With any bag, the insulation on the bottom gets smashed flat and is
functionally useless.  Some bags or sleeping robes -- ”quilts”, if you wish
-- have no insulation on the bottom and no zipper to add weight.  They can
be down or synthetic, but they offer best insulation-per-weight value,
provided one can sleep under an un-zipped cover without kicking it off, and
provided one can comfortably sleep in direct contact with the pad
underneath.

A good bag can be stuffed in a small pack, yet expand to provide an adequate
insulating thickness.  To go really cheap, the bag insulation could be made
up of those common little polystyrene bead foam pellets, but they aren’t
really compressible so the hiker would be carrying about 8,000 cu. in. of
sleeping bag.

In the old days before sleeping bags, outdoorsmen used to wrap up in a pair
of Hudson Bay Company wool blankets but they weren’t warm enough for our
standards and a pair weighed over six pounds.  Wool, and its modern
equivalent synthetic fleece, aren’t really options for a serious hiker’s bag

*Garments --*  For garments, particularly sweaters or jackets, the choice is
less clear.  What I find necessary is, 1) wind resistance, 2) adequate
insulation – I said adequate not maximum, 3) the ability to function when
moist from either sweat or precipitation, and, 4) low cost.  This function
can be “water resistant” but is preferably not “waterproof”.  I prefer to
have two separate garments for this function:  An insulating layer that
won’t stop all the wind, and a windbreaker layer that isn’t the best
insulation.  I like being able to wear one, the other, or both.

I have a number of typical, puffy down jackets which I don’t use for PCT
hiking.  They are much warmer than necessary, and weigh 24-36 ounces – over
twice the weight of “adequate” options.  I also have several 200 or
300-weight poly-fleece jackets, but they weigh 18-24 ounces -- still too
much.  Much of the weight is due to front and side zippers, pockets, large
collars, and sturdy, knit cuffs and waistbands. Fleece jackets have become a
rather generic commodity so I buy mine at the thrift store for typically
$3-$5 each.  The leading retailers have prestige, name-brand jackets that
function every bit as well as the cheap-o option, but cost upwards of $200.
The value of that name brand on the trail lasts about 2 days or 50 miles,
whichever comes first.  That’s $100/day or $4/mile.  After that, we’re all
just hiker-trash.

Better is an equally cheap-o 200-weght fleece pull-over sweater which has no
pockets, no zippers, etc, but it has adequate insulation and only weighs
about 10 ounces.  A similar option is the military surplus poly underwear
top.  They are about the same weight and warmth, but I find the
configuration of the collar to be a bit screwy so I don’t wear them as much.

The light-weight down jackets or down sweaters are popular options, and the
good quality models can weigh less than 10 ounces.  I love those things, and
several times I’ve decided to buy a Western Mountaineering Flight Jacket
hoping I could then omit the separate 3-5 oz. wind shirt.  I’ve always
stopped short for several reasons:  The cost of $200-$250 is a bit much for
a saving of 3-4 ounces;  I lose the layering option unless I want to add
back weight for a separate windshirt; I think they are a bit frail for my
use; they are warmer than I really need; and, most important of all, when
worn under raingear – of any kind – the jacket becomes wet across the
shoulders and upper arms and is then much more difficult to effectively dry
compared to a fleece or wool garment.

Wool sweaters vary greatly in their weight.  Most men’s sweaters are sturdy,
tightly-woven things, but they’re often heavy – 20-30 ounces.  I have a very
viable wool option which I often wear instead of the fleece pull-over.  At
the thrift store I bought a very high quality women’s pull-over sweater that
was made in Iceland.  It is very loosely knitted with about twice the loft
of a fleece sweater of the same weight.  It weighs about 14 ounces.  However,
it has problem:  Being so loosely woven it will not resist any wind, even
the wind of me walking 3 MPH.  A windshirt is necessary almost all of the
time so I lose the layering option.

Enjoy your planning.  If you start out and find something you like better –
change.

Steel-Eye

Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965

http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye

http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:44 PM, ryan clark <ryanoxie at mac.com> wrote:

> ok really lame title but i just finished watching the movie Notorious
> with a friend.
>
> so im really trying to get my gear list for the JMT nailed down but
> theres one thing that has been giving me some trouble
>
> Down Puff? Fleece? Pima Loft???
>
> i dont know much about any of them.
> does anybody have recommendations /experience / reasonings leaning
> towards any of these.?
> whats worked for you and why?
>
> and when it comes to fleece what weight do you use?
>
> cheap alternatives are happily welcomed as well.
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