[pct-l] FW: lightning

Thu Mar 25 09:45:55 CDT 2010

Jeff,

Despite the fact that your pack and the items in it were the focus point of an electrical charge, it wasn’t putting you in any more danger than you already were in. No doubt it sounded like you were in a bad location and you did the right thing by getting low fast but the packs were not the hazard they appeared to be.

To be honest, it doesn’t matter whether you carry a nylon pack full of rubber balls or a metal pack full of copper wire. The hindrance or contribution either would have in completing a circuit over several thousand feet of air is insignificant. The only difference is that metal items tend to spark more than non-metal objects.

It’s good that you brought up the effects associated with pooling an electrical charge though, anyone who experiences what you did needs to react as quickly and decisively as you did because you were definitely in a dangerous situation.

Oh, and contrary to what we feel intuitively, carrying your ice axe inverted on your pack actually reduces your chance of being struck since it would act as a lightning rod. There is a common misperception that lightning rods are made to attract lightning but the truth is the exact opposite. A metal rod with a sharp point aimed up actually disperses the buildup of electrons, reducing the chance of a strike on that object.

BigToe

From: jeff.singewald at comcast.net [mailto:jeff.singewald at comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:01 AM
To: David Ellzey
Subject: Re: [pct-l] lightning

Dave,

I would caution on the last statement but would agree with everything else.  I enjoy winter mountaineering and have done Shasta 4 times as well as others.  One year while climbing Green Butte Ridge at about 9K on Shasta we began to encounter an electrical storm with a fair amount of dry lightning.  While winter packing I ususally carry an external frame Super Tioga and I typically have snowshoes, ice axes and crampons tied on.  In any event, the electrical storm came on so quickly that we began seeing our pack frames sparking and the hair on our heads was nearly straight out/up.  Needless to say, we dumped our gear very quickly in a snow berm and dropped back down the mountain a good 50' to wait out the storm.  Not often to thru-hikers use external frames any longer but some strap on other metal such as poles and/or ice axe.

Definitely though, your advise to get down below the surrounding objects and make yourself less of a target is a wonderful goal to have.

Elevator

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ellzey" <david at xpletive.com>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:25:27 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [pct-l] lightning

Laura,

Get lower than the terrain around you that protrudes the highest, stay away from features that stand out as high points regardless of their overall altitude. Simply being under some average trees is not a concern but sitting directly under that big, tall tree out in the empty meadow is a really bad idea.

Remember that the ground and sky are attempting to complete a circuit over an vast amount of insulation, it really does require a massive buildup and the electrons follow the path of least resistance. As long as you are not one next to one of those points, or are that point yourself you will be safe. Your greatest danger should be getting down to a safe area once you realize that a lightning storm is in the area.

Also, nothing you are carrying in your pack is of any consequence, use all of it as you would if there was no lightning.

BigToe

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Laura Newman
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:01 AM
To: Gary Schenk
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] lightning

This discussion also led me to think that lightning was a much greater
concern.  While on the jmt in '05 there was some considerable weather
causing a lot of lightning.  This was the year of the boy scout
tragedy in Sandy meadow. I knew to get to get down off ridges and
mountain tops and not to be in open fields but after that was just
guessing what to do.

It seems that the books say to not pitch tents under trees but then
aren't you in the open?

Are tent stakes and poles ok?  What about the metal in a backpack? How
would set up without those?

Any specific advice welcome.

Thanks, Laura
"topper"

On Mar 24, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Gary Schenk <gwschenk at socal.rr.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday 24 March 2010 19:54:45 Eric Lee wrote:
>
>> It continually surprises me that with all of the snakes people report
>> seeing on the trail, and all of the stories of very close accidental
>> encounters, there are extremely few instances of hikers actually
>> getting
>> bitten.
>
> Lightning is a much greater hazard than snakes, IMHO. YMMV, etc.
>
> Gary
>
>
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