[pct-l] iPods, MP3's, and headphone nation
jeff.singewald at comcast.net
jeff.singewald at comcast.net
Thu Mar 18 09:00:08 CDT 2010
I think you might be surprised as to how many people you will encounter on a thru-hike that bring mini-music players along.
Elevator
----- Original Message -----
From: dnlcyclone at aol.com
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:34:04 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [pct-l] iPods, MP3's, and headphone nation
Really? I can understand carrying a cell phone and GPS, but headphones/music? It's just my opinion, truly to each their own, but I've never seen anyone walking the trails with an earbud in. I live in Minneapolis, where thousands of people zone out to their iPods while walking around the lake/strolling by the Mississippi, etc...but this is a city, and I still find these people confusing. Isn't the reward of being outside...being outside? To those who must have the headphones, I'm sure you're wonderful people, and I'm sure I'd drink a beer with you...or maybe I wouldn't.
Deadbeat Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Thu, Mar 18, 2010 8:08 am
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 27, Issue 113
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oday's Topics:
1. Re: White Wolf Lodge (giniajim)
2. Night light (Dan Africk)
3. Re: ULA Potty Trowel (Eric Lee)
4. Food Drop Services (Bob Bankhead)
5. Re: USB device charging (Thomas Jamrog)
6. A thought... (Michael Peterson)
7. Re: USB device charging (Joshua M)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
ate: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:39:09 -0400
rom: "giniajim" <jplynch at crosslink.net>
ubject: Re: [pct-l] White Wolf Lodge
o: "PCT-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
essage-ID: <7AF65282F4794157BFCCCF303B89568B at HomePC>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks for the info; could I mail a box to White Wolf?
----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Wallace
To: giniajim ; PCT-L
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:21 AM
Subject: RE: [pct-l] White Wolf Lodge
White Wolf Lodge generally has minimal supplies at its store--the
variety would be more comparable to what you'd find at Glen Aulin and
the other High Sierra Camps than the Tuolumne Meadows store. My guess
is you'd be able to purchase various candies, batteries, and maybe a few
freeze-dried or canned items. There is also a small restaurant where
you could get dinner or breakfast. A daily hikers bus that travels
between Yosemite Valley and Tuolumne Meadows stops at White Wolf.
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of giniajim
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:04 PM
To: PCT-L
Subject: [pct-l] White Wolf Lodge
Can one resupply at White Wolf in Yosemite?
------------------------------
Message: 2
ate: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:49:52 -0400
rom: Dan Africk <danstheman at gmail.com>
ubject: [pct-l] Night light
o: pct-l at backcountry.net
essage-ID:
<1b15d4fc1003172149u171a0188xc3c3ab8cf366bfa4 at mail.gmail.com>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Check out this headlamp:
ww.zebralight.com/H30-Q5-Headlamp-CR123-Flood_p_9.html
Durable, simple, adjustable output, lightweight(2.2oz with battery and
eadband), very bright and efficient Cree LED, and the lithium cells are
ery lightweight and long-lasting. If you want one, order it NOW, since
hipping from china takes 2-6 weeks.
he batteries are very cheap if you buy them here:
ww.batteryjunction.com/tpen-tcr123a-.html (apparently the business is
emporarily suspended due to a fire, but they should be accepting orders
gain soon).
An even lighter option would be a photon light, and use the included clip to
ttach it to your backpack, hat, or bandanna:
ww.photonlight.com/Photon-Freedom-Micro-Keychain-LED-Flashlights-p/fm-led-keychain-flashlight.htm
goog_1268831470430> The cells last a really long time unless you turn
t on accidentally. You
an find the CR2016 coin cells for the photon light on ebay.
-----------------------------
Message: 3
ate: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:53:58 -0700
rom: "Eric Lee" <saintgimp at hotmail.com>
ubject: Re: [pct-l] ULA Potty Trowel
o: "'AsABat'" <asabat at 4jeffrey.net>, "'PCT MailingList'"
<pct-l at backcountry.net>
essage-ID: <BAY145-ds16585A5FA64B02E2DEEC9EBD2B0 at phx.gbl>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
AsABat wrote:
little history - when this product first came out, it WAS called an ice
xe. There was so much flack thrown about on the web by both backpackers and
limbers. I'm sure that had a lot to do with changing the name. It's no
onger an "ice axe", it's a "potty trowel." Some of us have no qualms using
his "potty trowel" for other purposes.
I agree that if you want to use it, you should use it. Carry whatever you
ant, or don't carry any self-arrest tool at all. Safe is a relative term
nd we each make our own choices.
However, Adam's question was, "is it strong enough to self-arrest"? The
nly correct answer is, "It has not passed the standard CE B test so it is
ot rated for self-arrest." The ice axe standards are the way they are for
reason - mostly because the mountaineering community has a lot of
ollective experience with ice axes that fail and the consequences that
ollow. The ULA Potty Trowel doesn't meet those standards.
Now, you might reasonably think that the typical usage on a PCT thru-hike
on't stress the tool to the same degree as typically mountaineering, so the
otty Trowel is ok. That's a reasonable position to take. Though I think
ed has a good point too - if you're confident that you're not going to be
n a situation where you'll put a lot of stress on your self-arrest tool,
hen are you really sure you need to carry a self-arrest tool?
HYOH and all that. But Adam needs to understand his choices.
Eric
------------------------------
Message: 4
ate: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:11:41 -0700
rom: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
ubject: [pct-l] Food Drop Services
o: "PCT List" <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
essage-ID: <5665F4488F8140F49DE9940AA777C08B at BOB>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
For those considering packer resupply along the PCT/JMT in the Sierra, I just
eceived this information from Dee Berner of Sequoia King Pack Trains:
NOTE - neither web site is up right now. They should be available within 3
eeks. Until then, use either email address or call direct toll-free.
he email addresses are correct, bernerspack at yahoo.com or pinecreekps at aol.com,
nd phone is 800-962-0775. Dee is offering discounts for July and September, or
ith folks who can pair up on the same days (they usually contact her and she
an figure out what's going where). They do resupply service from Taboose area
own to Tyndall areas (including Wright Creek). As I noted last month, the
east expensive is Kearsarge Pass areas.
or resupply service at Kearsarge Pass and Charlotte Lake areas, the revised
ebsite will be www.sequoiakingspacktrains.com
or resupply service at Franklin Montgomery Mdw, Evolution Valley areas, or
oneymoon Lake for those folks up around Bear Lakes Basin, our website for Pine
reek Pack Station is www.pinecreekpackstation.com
-----------------------------
Message: 5
ate: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:29:36 -0400
rom: Thomas Jamrog <balrog at midcoast.com>
ubject: Re: [pct-l] USB device charging
o: Bill Burge <bill at burge.com>
c: PCT MailingList <pct-l at backcountry.net>
essage-ID: <F67E9869-32CE-4B6B-86A4-65C241DF28A8 at midcoast.com>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thanks for the tip on the shorter cable, I just ordered one. I have had good
esults with my iPod Touch (just like the iPhone in most ways but without the
onthly phone charges) using the Solio classic solar charger, which also
erves as a storage battery when charged up via the wall plug. I get two
harges of the iPod Touch with it. You can also use the sun to recharge the
nit if you hike in those conditions. The numbers are : 1650Amh, 5-6V , 800 mA
utput range, 4.8 watts. There is also a special adapter you need to buy from
olio that mates between the Ipod Touch or iPhone and the plug coming out of the
olio unit.
ncle Tom
ead all about it right now ( hotlinked) at www.trailjournals.com .
On Mar 17, 2010, at 3:08 PM, Bill Burge wrote:
>
I didn't write the following for PCT hiking, but it might prove useful:
I started with a short cable because it seemed silly to carry a long
cable with me all the time. Because of the case I use, "cableless"
options (built-in connector) are not an option. Also, many of those
are rigid or have a case for the phone. I like my case and making my
phone 2-3 inches longer makes the connector in the phone the break
point if it flexes!
ProCable Shortz in 7cm (2.5") or 20cm (7.5"), a few different places
carry them, this is an example:
http://www.radtech.us/Products/CablesiPod.aspx#ProCableShortz
I have the 7cm, and a retractable USB extension (that I bought at
Fry's). I bought the short cable from Radtech, but other places carry
them. They are a good company with great support.
For batteries, that's more complicated. Many battery suppliers don't
publish the capacity of their battery packs and some that do (Lenmar)
overstate them drastically. Many wish to say crap like "recharge your
device 3-4 times" - WHICH device? My old iPod, my BlackBerry, my
iPhone 3Gs? Others are even worse with "adds 27 hours of talk time!"
WTF does that mean? "My iPod Touch has 0 hours so far, so now it has
27?"
So I deal in "mAh". That says, if you're not into battery juice,
"this battery will put out the stated voltage (in this case, USB spec,
which is 5-5.5V) at so many milliamps for one hour or 1 milliamp for
so many hours and anywhere in between. So, an iPhone 3Gs battery is
3.7V and 1220mhA. Simplistically, we'll call that 4514VmAh as the
capacity of the battery. In a perfect world, you'd need a charger
battery that put out that much energy to fill it back up, but you will
actually need more. There is loss and power used to drive the
circuitry to charge the battery and change the voltage inside the
battery pack from what ever it is to 5V for USB output. Since USB
output is 5V, a battery pack of 903mAh is one charge of the iPhone
3Gs. Let's round to 1000mAh of USB power for a full charge.
The other item to be on the lookout for is the rated output power in
milliamps (mA) or amps (A). USB port output for running attached
devices is about 500mA at 5V (so 2500VmAh). If a device like the
iPhone 3Gs needs 4514VmAh to fully charge, then at 5V and 500mA, it
will need about 1.8 hours to charge - about 2 hours with loss, etc.
Some chargers are offering 1000mA (also called 1A, or high output)
charging ports for devices that can use the extra juice. I believe
that older iPods (and maybe the original iPhones) are limited to
drawing 500-ish mA from the port. The iPhone 3Gs will do a "fast
charge" if it detects a "high output" port.
I have a Lenmar battery pack that claims to be 750mAh, it makes about
30% charge of the iPhone.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3184995 nowhere
NEAR 750mAh, but I got a couple at Fry's on sale for less than $10.
Very small and can carry in my pocket with my short cable for an
emergency. (No high output port, I can use the iPhone faster than it
can charge it; in some situations.)
I bought this one for Helen as a bigger battery.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3912660 It
claims 2100mAh and should be able to charge the iPhone 3Gs twice! Not
so, once and some change. I bought it at Fry's and didn't get such a
good deal. Both of the Lenmars came with Apple cables, don't use
them, they won't work with the iPhone or some later model iPods.
Apple changed the spec of their cables... (Again, no high output port.)
My current favorite battery is making me frustrated. It's the
Duracell "Instant USB Charger".
http://www.duracell.com/en-US/product/instant-usb-charger.jspx I
bought it at WalMart for $20, on a whim, and it's turned out to be my
"pocket favorite". It's very flat, so it's good for the pocket. At
$20, it was a bargain! It advertises 1120mAh and DOES do a "flat to
full" charge of my iPhone 3Gs. Ever since, when I see them - they are
$30 - not as much of a bargain. Some of the things I DO like about
it, it comes with a very short (portable) power/recharge USB cable AND
is has an actual ON/OFF switch. Most of these types of devices do
NOT, and as such are always powering the power conversion circuit and
slowly draining. Very slowly, but draining just the same. Also, it
seems that it does put out more than the minimum for a faster charge.
This one is so small and flat that I might consider hiking with more
than one and call it "done", but then I start getting cheap...
Then there's BIG juice. This would be for something like the bus ride
to camp and back. Usually, I'd be in a car with a 12V->USB adapter.
I wasn't on the charter to Joshua Tree so I don't know if there was
any power on the bus for devices, so do have that. But I go looking
and I did order something. I can't vouch for it's performance yet.
I considered looking for the larger Duracell. The Powerhouse Charger:
http://www.duracell.com/en-US/product/powerhouse-usb-charger.jspx but
at 2000mAh, it would be two charges at best and was not that
compelling, unless I could find it deeply discounted. I could not.
I considered something VERY expensive, but with other uses for after
Snow Camp, and of very high quality:
http://www.hypershop.com/HyperMac-External-MacBook-Battery-100Wh-p/mbp-100.htm
> but just couldn't bring myself to cough up the bucks (still, it
would charge the iPhone over 50 times! ;-) Definitely a 1A, high
output, power port. I could power my laptop on some car/plane trips
and power my iPhone as well.
The same company has a device meant more for iPhone/iPod use, and I
considered it as well:
http://www.hypershop.com/product-p/hm36-black.htm still pricey for
3600mAh (about 3.5 full charges) but very good quality and probaby IS
3600mAh! Definitely has a 1A, high output power port. (May still get
something from these guys, if I get a bonus at work or something!)
What I ended up ordering was:
http://www.imaxpower.com/IMP500-3G-3Gs-iPhone-iTouch-external-battery-p/imp500.htm
I liked that it came with a "wall wart" charger that I use for it or
for my iPhone or iPod Touch. I doubt that the cable will work for
either. I purchased it through Amazon, last night, and it shipped
this morning. I'll let you know how it does when I get it. The
online reviews have said 4+ full recharges of iPhones and a charge
rate that implies a high output port and a 3rd party doc "confirms"
it. I verified with the vendor that the capacity is 5000mAh at 5V, so 4
full charges should be expected with some power left over. At 130g,
this might be "trailable" at about 1oz per iPhone charge.
Reviews: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=565215 and
I was going to get http://www.imaxpower.com/product-p/imp880.htm to
share (with GF), but then what happens to is after the trip is over?
This device probably has a high output port, but now I'm not so sure...
BillB
On Mar 17, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Jim Keener ( J J ) wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I received this charger yesterday and tested it today on a fully
> discharged iPhone 3GS. It charged up to 82% of the iPhone's battery
> capacity and ran out of juice. Bad charger.
>
> Walk well,
> Jim Keener ( J J )
> _________________
>
> jj at ridgetrailhiker.com
>
> http://postholer.com/jj
> http://ridgetrailhiker.com
> http://olderhealthier.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
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> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
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------------------------------
Message: 6
ate: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:32:21 +0900
rom: Michael Peterson <wordgrouper at hotmail.com>
ubject: [pct-l] A thought...
o: PCT Email List PCT List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
essage-ID:
<4a2341df1003180432y214fb3f2xc282c83e3711b03 at mail.gmail.com>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Only by going alone in silence, without baggage, can one truly get into the
eart of the wilderness. All other travel is mere dust and hotels and
aggage and chatter. -John Muir, naturalist, explorer, and writer
1838-1914)
-----------------------------
Message: 7
ate: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:08:19 -0400
rom: Joshua M <jtmlite at gmail.com>
ubject: Re: [pct-l] USB device charging
o: Thomas Jamrog <balrog at midcoast.com>
c: PCT MailingList <pct-l at backcountry.net>
essage-ID:
<f01990421003180608u58b33d25lb5a4db33eadebe93 at mail.gmail.com>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Fully charges an ipod twice, has two usb female ports. When in town you can
harge 2 devices and the internal battery at once. You can carry an
ptional extra batter if you are using a lot of power. Carried it 2000
iles, works great and you can't beat the price.
ttp://www.amazon.com/Music-Power-0900-72-Rechargeable-Extended/dp/B000QFNK6K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1268917528&sr=8-1
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Thomas Jamrog <balrog at midcoast.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the tip on the shorter cable, I just ordered one. I have had
good results with my iPod Touch (just like the iPhone in most ways but
without the monthly phone charges) using the Solio classic solar charger,
which also serves as a storage battery when charged up via the wall plug. I
get two charges of the iPod Touch with it. You can also use the sun to
recharge the unit if you hike in those conditions. The numbers are :
1650Amh, 5-6V , 800 mA output range, 4.8 watts. There is also a special
adapter you need to buy from Solio that mates between the Ipod Touch or
iPhone and the plug coming out of the Solio unit.
Uncle Tom
Read all about it right now ( hotlinked) at www.trailjournals.com .
On Mar 17, 2010, at 3:08 PM, Bill Burge wrote:
>
> I didn't write the following for PCT hiking, but it might prove useful:
>
> I started with a short cable because it seemed silly to carry a long
> cable with me all the time. Because of the case I use, "cableless"
> options (built-in connector) are not an option. Also, many of those
> are rigid or have a case for the phone. I like my case and making my
> phone 2-3 inches longer makes the connector in the phone the break
> point if it flexes!
>
> ProCable Shortz in 7cm (2.5") or 20cm (7.5"), a few different places
> carry them, this is an example:
> http://www.radtech.us/Products/CablesiPod.aspx#ProCableShortz
>
> I have the 7cm, and a retractable USB extension (that I bought at
> Fry's). I bought the short cable from Radtech, but other places carry
> them. They are a good company with great support.
>
> For batteries, that's more complicated. Many battery suppliers don't
> publish the capacity of their battery packs and some that do (Lenmar)
> overstate them drastically. Many wish to say crap like "recharge your
> device 3-4 times" - WHICH device? My old iPod, my BlackBerry, my
> iPhone 3Gs? Others are even worse with "adds 27 hours of talk time!"
> WTF does that mean? "My iPod Touch has 0 hours so far, so now it has
> 27?"
>
> So I deal in "mAh". That says, if you're not into battery juice,
> "this battery will put out the stated voltage (in this case, USB spec,
> which is 5-5.5V) at so many milliamps for one hour or 1 milliamp for
> so many hours and anywhere in between. So, an iPhone 3Gs battery is
> 3.7V and 1220mhA. Simplistically, we'll call that 4514VmAh as the
> capacity of the battery. In a perfect world, you'd need a charger
> battery that put out that much energy to fill it back up, but you will
> actually need more. There is loss and power used to drive the
> circuitry to charge the battery and change the voltage inside the
> battery pack from what ever it is to 5V for USB output. Since USB
> output is 5V, a battery pack of 903mAh is one charge of the iPhone
> 3Gs. Let's round to 1000mAh of USB power for a full charge.
>
> The other item to be on the lookout for is the rated output power in
> milliamps (mA) or amps (A). USB port output for running attached
> devices is about 500mA at 5V (so 2500VmAh). If a device like the
> iPhone 3Gs needs 4514VmAh to fully charge, then at 5V and 500mA, it
> will need about 1.8 hours to charge - about 2 hours with loss, etc.
> Some chargers are offering 1000mA (also called 1A, or high output)
> charging ports for devices that can use the extra juice. I believe
> that older iPods (and maybe the original iPhones) are limited to
> drawing 500-ish mA from the port. The iPhone 3Gs will do a "fast
> charge" if it detects a "high output" port.
>
> I have a Lenmar battery pack that claims to be 750mAh, it makes about
> 30% charge of the iPhone.
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3184995 nowhere
> NEAR 750mAh, but I got a couple at Fry's on sale for less than $10.
> Very small and can carry in my pocket with my short cable for an
> emergency. (No high output port, I can use the iPhone faster than it
> can charge it; in some situations.)
>
> I bought this one for Helen as a bigger battery.
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3912660 It
> claims 2100mAh and should be able to charge the iPhone 3Gs twice! Not
> so, once and some change. I bought it at Fry's and didn't get such a
> good deal. Both of the Lenmars came with Apple cables, don't use
> them, they won't work with the iPhone or some later model iPods.
> Apple changed the spec of their cables... (Again, no high output port.)
>
> My current favorite battery is making me frustrated. It's the
> Duracell "Instant USB Charger".
> http://www.duracell.com/en-US/product/instant-usb-charger.jspx I
> bought it at WalMart for $20, on a whim, and it's turned out to be my
> "pocket favorite". It's very flat, so it's good for the pocket. At
> $20, it was a bargain! It advertises 1120mAh and DOES do a "flat to
> full" charge of my iPhone 3Gs. Ever since, when I see them - they are
> $30 - not as much of a bargain. Some of the things I DO like about
> it, it comes with a very short (portable) power/recharge USB cable AND
> is has an actual ON/OFF switch. Most of these types of devices do
> NOT, and as such are always powering the power conversion circuit and
> slowly draining. Very slowly, but draining just the same. Also, it
> seems that it does put out more than the minimum for a faster charge.
> This one is so small and flat that I might consider hiking with more
> than one and call it "done", but then I start getting cheap...
>
> Then there's BIG juice. This would be for something like the bus ride
> to camp and back. Usually, I'd be in a car with a 12V->USB adapter.
> I wasn't on the charter to Joshua Tree so I don't know if there was
> any power on the bus for devices, so do have that. But I go looking
> and I did order something. I can't vouch for it's performance yet.
>
> I considered looking for the larger Duracell. The Powerhouse Charger:
> http://www.duracell.com/en-US/product/powerhouse-usb-charger.jspx but
> at 2000mAh, it would be two charges at best and was not that
> compelling, unless I could find it deeply discounted. I could not.
>
> I considered something VERY expensive, but with other uses for after
> Snow Camp, and of very high quality:
>
http://www.hypershop.com/HyperMac-External-MacBook-Battery-100Wh-p/mbp-100.htm
> but just couldn't bring myself to cough up the bucks (still, it
> would charge the iPhone over 50 times! ;-) Definitely a 1A, high
> output, power port. I could power my laptop on some car/plane trips
> and power my iPhone as well.
>
> The same company has a device meant more for iPhone/iPod use, and I
> considered it as well:
> http://www.hypershop.com/product-p/hm36-black.htm still pricey for
> 3600mAh (about 3.5 full charges) but very good quality and probaby IS
> 3600mAh! Definitely has a 1A, high output power port. (May still get
> something from these guys, if I get a bonus at work or something!)
>
> What I ended up ordering was:
>
http://www.imaxpower.com/IMP500-3G-3Gs-iPhone-iTouch-external-battery-p/imp500.htm
> I liked that it came with a "wall wart" charger that I use for it or
> for my iPhone or iPod Touch. I doubt that the cable will work for
> either. I purchased it through Amazon, last night, and it shipped
> this morning. I'll let you know how it does when I get it. The
> online reviews have said 4+ full recharges of iPhones and a charge
> rate that implies a high output port and a 3rd party doc "confirms"
> it. I verified with the vendor that the capacity is 5000mAh at 5V, so 4
> full charges should be expected with some power left over. At 130g,
> this might be "trailable" at about 1oz per iPhone charge.
> Reviews: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=565215 and
>
> I was going to get http://www.imaxpower.com/product-p/imp880.htm to
> share (with GF), but then what happens to is after the trip is over?
> This device probably has a high output port, but now I'm not so sure...
>
> BillB
>
>
>
> On Mar 17, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Jim Keener ( J J ) wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I received this charger yesterday and tested it today on a fully
>> discharged iPhone 3GS. It charged up to 82% of the iPhone's battery
>> capacity and ran out of juice. Bad charger.
>>
>> Walk well,
>> Jim Keener ( J J )
>> _________________
>>
>> jj at ridgetrailhiker.com
>>
>> http://postholer.com/jj
>> http://ridgetrailhiker.com
>> http://olderhealthier.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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nd of Pct-l Digest, Vol 27, Issue 113
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