[pct-l] you are in the minority of ohv

[Bill Burge]

I too live in SoCal.  I grew up in the desert (out in the boonies past  
Palm Springs) and I know of the kind of persons that you describe.

I'm just not one of them.  So when someone starts talking about a  
group I belong to as if I don't exist - that's WRONG.  My group works  
hard to change what we can about the people who do our type of  
recreation, the same as we (here in this group) try to change what we  
can about the people who do our type of recreation.

What if all the people in populated areas decided: "It's horrible what  
those hikers are doing, festooning the wilderness with flags of toilet  
paper and holes filled with poo!  Close down that PCT that causes so  
many users to take an undistributed path that focuses the damage in  
that strip of sewage across our great land.  If you close the PCT they  
will all go to many different places or stay home altogether!  Problem  
solved!"

It might be solved, but it wouldn't be right.  That would mean that a  
number of very well meaning and very well behaved are now without  
because small minded people lumped them in with the rest of the crowd  
and took the easy way out.  And it might not be solved!  People would  
go elsewhere and do the same thing or they might hike the PCT anyway,  
against the wishes of the ignorant.  And since they had to do it  
illegally, they might not care how they handled themselves.

But I digress.  I know the people of which you speak - and I hate  
them.  But people shouldn't cut MY throat to spite THEIR face. I'll  
work from the inside to clean trails, repair fences and report  
violators and others can work from their sides to make reasonable  
laws, enforce them fully and respect that I exist to help both of us.

BillB


On Jan 29, 2010, at 11:55 AM, canoeman at qnet.com wrote:

> I,m not sure what you mean by "my accessible land".
> I am with YOU as a responsible OHV user.
>
> I have twenty acres against the national forest, just right about  
> wher the PCT
> will detour to this year on section D, and the only group of people I
> will no longer allow access to the forest through my property are  
> OHV users,
> due to their horrendous destruction. Comparing the damage done by
> inexperienced ignorant hikers who cut trails,  and toilet paper,  
> pales in
> comparison, with the massive and permanent destruction done by dirt  
> bikers. Its
> just pretty much two different universes.
> Almost all of the recent large fires were caused by illegal aliens  
> camping
> (station), frat boys having beer and puke parties (malibu), nut job  
> Fire bugs
> (san deigo fires)and land owners doing stupid things like welding  
> heavey
> equipment in high grass, and bladeing land to cut weeds in heat of   
> DRY summer
> causing fires.
> The forest service agreed after recent studies that most fires are  
> caused by
> lightning, and power line arcing in remote areas, and by themselves  
> try to carry
> out controlled burns( their just not very good at it, as it appears.)
> Back packers/ Hikers have almost no fires attributed to them. as  
> opposed to
> hunters who are often described as hikers when fires are started.
> I live in SOCAL, and the OHV crowd has turned from being a courteous,
> respectful
> group, to a largely obnoxious, usually drunk, destructive  
> unrepentant herd of
> knuckle draggers, festooned with the Mullet of the new century a  
> goatee, and
> Asian tattoos  that the morons cant even read splayed across there  
> backs, necks
> big manly biceps.
> They are an aggressive rude lot.
> This is not something that can be disputed.
> Go out to the desert, any week end and you will surely meet these  
> turds.
> but that's just my humble opinion...   :-)
> canoeman.
>
>
>
> Quoting Bill Burge <bill at burge.com>:
>
>> Maybe I am in the minority.
>>
>> But that doesn't give ANYONE the RIGHT to speak of the entire group  
>> as
>> if the minority does not EXIST.
>>
>> I've had more of my accessible land closed from HIKERS causing fires
>> than from ME causing fires (I have caused none).  That does not give
>> me the right to say that "hikers don't respect the use of fire in the
>> backcountry". SOME hikers don't respect the use of fire.
>>
>> The whole "TP In the backcountry" is a good parallel of this issue.
>>
>> Bill Burge
>> Typoed on my iPhone!
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:35 AM, canoeman at qnet.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I live in southern California and also have a ohv. You  know as well
>>> as I do
>>> that we are the minority.
>>> go out any weekend in the desert and you can see this type of
>>> destruction, EVERY
>>> WEEKEND.
>>> THE OHV ORGANIZATIONS like to portray themselves as people who care
>>> for thew the
>>> land, but get most of them away from a press room and they hold the
>>> hiker trail
>>> conservationist community in complete disdain.
>>> they consider conservationist as "gov'mint" left wing commie
>>> liberals who are
>>> taking away their rights.
>>> On the same you tube page that showed the abuse video was another
>>> video called
>>> illegal offroaders, in the very same area, a report done by kern tv
>>> station and
>>> it shows in the report that just as they are talking on camera to
>>> the land
>>> owner about the dirt bikers chaseing and killing their cattle and
>>> dogs, on
>>> camera behind them come a huge group of dirt bike riders doing just
>>> that, and
>>> at the same time a guy pulls up through the fence with his truck
>>> full of dirt
>>> bikes and when confronted by the news caster and the land owner
>>> stands their
>>> and tell them he has been coming here for years and he does what he
>>> wants and
>>> if they dont like it its too bad.
>>> To deny that the majority of dirt bike riders are not now like that,
>>> is just
>>> Nieve sponsable ohv user as am I but you know the ohv community is
>>> mostly
>>> uncaring and usually drunk and abusive.
>>> so please dont try to convince us they are anything else.
>>> They are the COCKROACHES OF THE DESERT.
>>>
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>
>
>