[pct-l] you are in the minority of ohv

[dsaufley]

I respectfully disagree.  I am personally aware of at minimum a half-dozen
fires that were caused not just by hikers, but by PCT thru hikers in recent
years, and just in the first 500 miles. For some the source has been stoves,
and for at least one it was burning TP.  Up the trail a few miles of the PCT
are burned just north of Kennedy Meadows, a fire started by a PCT hiker
stove.  I unwittingly hosted a hiker who had started a fire, and was hiding
from the law. I did not know that he was who they were looking for until
he'd already passed through. 

Here is just one person's account, who stood his ground and faced the music.
He asked me to keep this story alive to remind others:

"A Fire Story -- Don't Learn My Lesson the Hard Way

     In mid-May while hiking the PCT in Cottonwood Canyon just north of I-10
on a very hot and windy day I stopped for the night. After setting up my
tent I cleared an area about three feet across of anything that might burn
and started cooking my supper. For cooking I put an ounce or two of
denatured alcohol in an old potted meat can. I have a wire stand for my pot
and an aluminum wind screen. When my water starts boiling my practice is to
lift my pot, move my wire stand and put the pot back on the can to put the
fire out and save any unburned fuel. As I was doing this some grass outside
my cleared area caught fire. I immediately jumped up and started stamping
out flames and kicking dirt on them. It was no use. The flames spread faster
than I could put them out and soon the fire was racing up the canyon out of
my control. While I was trying to keep the fire from spreading downwind a
small part of it spread upwind and burned part of my tent and my pack and
some other equipment.  After what seemed a long time some firefighters came
and put out the fire. Afterwards they told me that fifty acres of grass had
burned. I feel very fortunate. Once that fire left my fire ring I had no
control over whether it was fifty acres or fifty thousand or more
importantly whether anyone (including the firefighters) was seriously
injured or killed.

     In the months since I have spent a lot of time thinking about why this
fire happened and how to keep anything like this from happening to another
hiker. I am a 58 year old grandfather. Young and reckless is not the
problem. I have thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail and done most of it again
in sections. Inexperience is not the problem. I am a pilot and a sailor. My
collateral duty in the Marine Corps was Safety Officer. A casual attitude
about safety issues is not the problem. I was not cooking in or around my
tent or equipment.  I cleared off what I thought was a big enough ring and
was as careful as I could be. No fuel was spilled. After the fire my pot was
sitting on top of my stove which had unburned fuel inside. I thought I was
being careful. I was wrong! What I know now is that my concept of the risk
involved was purely theoretical. The reality is that on an average day in
Southern California there is more risk of a serious fire that on the worst
day I've ever seen at home on the East Coast or on the AT. When the
temperature is over one hundred, the humidity is low and the wind is
blowing, things dry out very quickly. Ironically in a year like this when
there has been a lot of rain the risk is worse because there is more to
burn. I've also considered the type of stove I was using and whether using
my old MSR would have kept this from happening. I don't believe it would
have. What I know now is that I could not have been careful enough and the
only sure way to keep this from happening was to eat a cold supper.

     In California there are serious criminal and civil penalties for
causing a fire like this. The personal feelings of guilt and remorse are
serious as well. It is impossible to describe the helplessness I felt
watching fire spread up that canyon. I can't imagine what it would feel like
had there been serious property damage or personal injury. I hope that
others will read this and realize that if this happened to me it can happen
to them. A pot of Lipton Noodles is not worth it. Please be careful!"

* * * * *

L-Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of canoeman at qnet.com
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 11:55 AM
To: Bill Burge
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] you are in the minority of ohv

I,m not sure what you mean by "my accessible land".
I am with YOU as a responsible OHV user.

I have twenty acres against the national forest, just right about wher the
PCT
will detour to this year on section D, and the only group of people I
will no longer allow access to the forest through my property are OHV users,
due to their horrendous destruction. Comparing the damage done by 
inexperienced ignorant hikers who cut trails,  and toilet paper, pales in
comparison, with the massive and permanent destruction done by dirt bikers.
Its
just pretty much two different universes.
Almost all of the recent large fires were caused by illegal aliens camping
(station), frat boys having beer and puke parties (malibu), nut job Fire
bugs
(san deigo fires)and land owners doing stupid things like welding heavey
equipment in high grass, and bladeing land to cut weeds in heat of  DRY
summer
causing fires.
The forest service agreed after recent studies that most fires are caused by
lightning, and power line arcing in remote areas, and by themselves try to
carry
out controlled burns( their just not very good at it, as it appears.)
Back packers/ Hikers have almost no fires attributed to them. as opposed to
hunters who are often described as hikers when fires are started.
I live in SOCAL, and the OHV crowd has turned from being a courteous,
respectful
group, to a largely obnoxious, usually drunk, destructive unrepentant herd
of
knuckle draggers, festooned with the Mullet of the new century a goatee, and
Asian tattoos  that the morons cant even read splayed across there backs,
necks
big manly biceps.
They are an aggressive rude lot.
This is not something that can be disputed.
Go out to the desert, any week end and you will surely meet these turds.
but that's just my humble opinion...   :-) 
canoeman.


 
Quoting Bill Burge <bill at burge.com>:

> Maybe I am in the minority.
> 
> But that doesn't give ANYONE the RIGHT to speak of the entire group as  
> if the minority does not EXIST.
> 
> I've had more of my accessible land closed from HIKERS causing fires  
> than from ME causing fires (I have caused none).  That does not give  
> me the right to say that "hikers don't respect the use of fire in the  
> backcountry". SOME hikers don't respect the use of fire.
> 
> The whole "TP In the backcountry" is a good parallel of this issue.
> 
> Bill Burge
> Typoed on my iPhone!
> 
> On Jan 29, 2010, at 10:35 AM, canoeman at qnet.com wrote:
> 
> >
> > I live in southern California and also have a ohv. You  know as well  
> > as I do
> > that we are the minority.
> > go out any weekend in the desert and you can see this type of  
> > destruction, EVERY
> > WEEKEND.
> > THE OHV ORGANIZATIONS like to portray themselves as people who care  
> > for thew the
> > land, but get most of them away from a press room and they hold the  
> > hiker trail
> > conservationist community in complete disdain.
> > they consider conservationist as "gov'mint" left wing commie  
> > liberals who are
> > taking away their rights.
> > On the same you tube page that showed the abuse video was another  
> > video called
> > illegal offroaders, in the very same area, a report done by kern tv  
> > station and
> > it shows in the report that just as they are talking on camera to  
> > the land
> > owner about the dirt bikers chaseing and killing their cattle and  
> > dogs, on
> > camera behind them come a huge group of dirt bike riders doing just  
> > that, and
> > at the same time a guy pulls up through the fence with his truck  
> > full of dirt
> > bikes and when confronted by the news caster and the land owner  
> > stands their
> > and tell them he has been coming here for years and he does what he  
> > wants and
> > if they dont like it its too bad.
> > To deny that the majority of dirt bike riders are not now like that,  
> > is just
> > Nieve sponsable ohv user as am I but you know the ohv community is  
> > mostly
> > uncaring and usually drunk and abusive.
> > so please dont try to convince us they are anything else.
> > They are the COCKROACHES OF THE DESERT.
> >
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