[pct-l] stoves?

Fri Dec 10 10:56:52 CST 2010

What happens with a canister stove when you tip it? Have you observed this,
or are you hypothesizing?
Inside that canister is a highly flammable gas that is compressed enough to
become a liquid. The valve on the canister is not designed to have the
liquid come through. I'm not convinced that someone kicking over a canister
stove is that much safer than kicking over an alcohol stove. Another thing
to consider is stability. I have one canister stove that uses a hose to
connect to the burner. This lets the stove and cookpot sit lower to the
ground, but most of the canister stoves I see in use today are of the style
where the cookpot sits on top of the burner which is attached to the top of
the canister. This results in a tall and narrow setup with the greatest
mass, the water, at the top. With my alcohol stove, it is much more stable.
The stove sits on the ground, and my cookpot is only a couple inches from
the ground. My windscreen/stand combo also adds to the stability of the
system. It is nearly impossible to knock it over. I've made dozens of these
and observed their use on many trips. When someone has kicked one (yes it's
happened), all it did was scoot the whole thing over a bit.

I've blown up a mostly empty fuel canister once too. In a campground fire
pit one time, one of my fellow climbers thought it would be fun to toss the
empty cartridge into the camp fire. When he proceeded to throw it into the
fire, we all scattered and hid behind rocks and vehicles. It took a few
minutes, but when it exploded, it launched the large heavy logs 50+ feet! I
can't recall where we found the canister. You're right that it was not easy
to make it explode, but I still feel uneasy around the metal container
holding the pressurized flammable liquid.

I've used every kind of backpacking stove, and I have decided that alcohol
stoves are the best solution. They are ultra lightweight, easy to use, and
reliable with no moving parts or valves.

As was already said, ANY stove can be dangerous in the wrong hands. Few
backpackers still use them, but I can't even count how many times I've
watched people create potentially dangerous situations with a Whisperlite.
Maybe I don't see the huge risk in using an alcohol stove because I use mine
safely. I light it on top of a rock 90% of the time, so that probably helps.
And when it's not on a rock, it's usually setup in a dirt area absent of
anything that could burn.

Anyway, like most hear choices, there is never a single right answer for
everyone in all situations. I choose to use an alcohol stove and have
converted all but one person I have hiked with. :)  HYOH

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Carl Siechert <carlito at gmail.com> wrote:

> I once blew up a cartridge--intentionally. (This was back when I was young
> and stupid, as opposed to my current condition of just stupid.) It makes
> quite a fireball--I'd estimate a blue fireball about 15 feet in
> diameter--but it takes a lot of heat to pop the canister. We (my equally
> stupid roommates and I) suspended a cartridge above a blazing white gas
> stove, and it took about 5 minutes to burst. In addition to creating a cool
> fireball, the downward force of the explosion crushed my heavy brass Svea
> stove.
>
> Bottom line: I wouldn't be worried about a cartridge stove accidentally
> exploding, or even spreading flames beyond its normal burner.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 8:24 AM, CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Good morning, Kevin,
> >
> > If the typical hiker’s alcohol stove is inadvertently tipped over by Sir
> > Klutzalot 1-2 ounces of soon-to-be-wildly-burning fuel will be spread
> > across
> > the ground and will be difficult to extinguish.  A canister stove will
> > likely continue to burn if tipped, but the fuel flow remains under
> control
> > resulting in a much smaller ground fire.  I don’t know of any instances
> > where a canister actually exploded, but if it remained within an
> > uncontrolled ground fire I suppose it could burst .
> >
> > The risk of a hiker starting a wildland fire with his/her stove is real,
> > and
> > it occurs with unacceptable regularity.  When faced with hiking S.
> > California during several brutally dry seasons my personal choice was to
> > eschew a stove entirely in favor of no-cook foods.  As a result I not
> only
> > eliminated the chance of my starting a wildland fire, I also
> significantly
> > reduced my gear weight and I avoided having to spend time setting up,
> > cooking, and – important to me – cleaning out a messy pot.
> >
> >
> > Steel-Eye
> >
> > Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965
> >
> > http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
> >
> > http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 8:03 AM, Kevin Cook <hikelite at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > How would an alcohol stove be more dangerous than a canister stove?
> > > If either stove got kicks while it was lit, the potential to start a
> > large
> > > fire is there. Is it because alcohol flames are invisible in the
> > daylight?
> > > How would that increase the chance of a wildfire?
> > > Honestly, the pressurized fuel canisters make me more nervous than
> > alcohol
> > > ever has. Those fuel canisters are essentially grenades that are just
> > > harder
> > > to ignite, but if it ever happened, I'm afraid of all that shrapnel
> > flying
> > > around!
> > >
> > > I'm sure there are reasons alcohol is more dangerous, but I'm just
> > ignorant
> > > about the ways they are worse.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Jim Keener ( J J ) <
> > > pct2010 at ridgetrailhiker.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Greetings,
> > > >
> > > > PCT hikers have started several forest fires. Alcohol stoves are
> > > > potentially more dangerous than others. The trail traverses some very
> > > > fire-sensitive areas.
> > > >
> > > > I think it is very likely that there will be more limits placed on
> fire
> > > use
> > > > along the trail. Self-policing and a very heightened awareness are
> > > > appropriate.
> > > >
> > > > Walk well,
> > > > Jim Keener ( J J )
> > > >
> > > > On Dec 10, 2010, at 7:28 AM, Kevin Cook <hikelite at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I've been using an alcohol stove (Pepsi can style) for years now. I
> > > can't
> > > > > imagine every using anything else. Every canister stove I've ever
> > seen
> > > > > weighed more and/or was less stable when cooking. Then there is the
> > > issue
> > > > of
> > > > > having to carry 2 canisters when on still has a couple days in it,
> > but
> > > > not
> > > > > enough to get through the next section. With an alcohol stove, you
> > will
> > > > > always leave town with the right amount of fuel. One can make an
> > > argument
> > > > > that they, canister stoves, are more convenient, but it's not a
> > strong
> > > > > argument. My alcohol stove might take longer, but I'm not in a
> hurry
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > trail. ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 8:04 AM, <mctanker at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Been using an alcohol stove. Is this the best bet, or should I use
> a
> > > > >> cannister stove?  Cook water only for breakfast (1 cup) and dinner
> > (2
> > > > cups).
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >> Dennis (aka Sunshine)
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > ~ Kevin
> > > > > Soon To Be PCT Thru Hiker!
> > > > > "The indoor life is the next best thing to premature burial."
> Edward
> > > > Abbey
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> > >
> > > --
> > > ~ Kevin
> > > Soon To Be PCT Thru Hiker!
> > > "The indoor life is the next best thing to premature burial." Edward
> > Abbey
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-- 
~ Kevin
Soon To Be PCT Thru Hiker!
"The indoor life is the next best thing to premature burial." Edward Abbey