[pct-l] help

Fri Sep 11 14:14:20 CDT 2009

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-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of pct-l-request at backcountry.net
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:59 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 21, Issue 19

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: How much water???? (Pea Hicks)
   2. Re: How much water???? (Scott Bryce)
   3. Re: How much water???? (Pea Hicks)
   4. Re: How much water???? (Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com)
   5. Re: How much water? (Keith Robertson)
   6. Water in Sections A & B (Tom Bache)
   7. Re: How much water? (dsaufley)
   8. Re: Water in Sections A & B (Eric Lee)
   9.  How much water???? (Erik The Black)
  10. Section K shuttle? (Will Dane)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:23:28 -0700
From: Pea Hicks <phix at optigan.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] How much water????
Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <4AAA8790.8010800 at optigan.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Gary Wright wrote:
> On Sep 11, 2009, at 12:44 PM, CRYSTAL NEZGODA wrote:
>> I am planning a section A and B hike for next season, the green pct  
>> book
>> says to bring atleast 8 liters of water per day... so I was  
>> wondering if you
>> guys could tell me about your experience with the desert section and  
>> water

8 liters would be about the maximum you'd need- as radar said, you 
should have that capacity. offhand, the only stretch in section A or B 
where i'd actually carry that much would be from rodriguez tank to 
barrel spring, a hot, dry distance of about 33 miles with no reliable, 
permanent water source.

girlscout

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:22:37 -0600
From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] How much water????
To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <4AAA875D.90400 at scottbryce.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

CRYSTAL NEZGODA wrote:
> I am planning a section A and B hike for next season, the green pct
> book says to bring atleast 8 liters of water per day... so I was
> wondering if you guys could tell me about your experience with the
> desert section and water

Everybody's water needs are different. On my hike of Section A last year
I was drinking about 8 liters per day, and I probably should have been
drinking more. I was able to carry 7 liters. I only remember carrying
that much twice, from the border and from Scissors Crossing. I would
drink a liter at each water source, then carry 1 liter for every 3 miles
to the next reliable water source, plus 1 liter for a dry camp.

I think most people were carrying less water than I was, some quite a
bit less.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:29:43 -0700
From: Pea Hicks <phix at optigan.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] How much water????
Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <4AAA8907.4040407 at optigan.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Scott Bryce wrote:
> CRYSTAL NEZGODA wrote:
>> I am planning a section A and B hike for next season, the green pct
>> book says to bring atleast 8 liters of water per day... so I was
>> wondering if you guys could tell me about your experience with the
>> desert section and water

forgot to add:

a general rule of thumb for most folks is about a liter of water for 
every 5 miles, more if it's hotter.

also, don't forget to bookmark asabat's water report, and print out a 
copy just before your hike:

http://www.4jeffrey.net/pct/a.htm

girlscout

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:34:28 -0700
From: Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com
	<diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] How much water????
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
	<452E9766-DB6C-4B00-80E4-5CF5192E6839 at santabarbarahikes.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On Sep 11, 2009, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:

> From: CRYSTAL NEZGODA <littlevixsin at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] How much water????
>
> I am planning a section A and B hike for next season, the green pct  
> book
> says to bring atleast 8 liters of water per day... so I was  
> wondering if you
> guys could tell me about your experience with the desert section  
> and water

Do you NEED that much water? I never did. Some people did, but not  
me. If you can get some experience with understanding your own needs  
when the weather is hot and dry, that'll help you. Figure out how  
much you need for drinking and for cooking. I never carried more than  
5.5 liters and that was always too much. Most people when they hear  
the word desert imagine one of the desert scenes from something like  
the Twilight Zone and that you'll be walking under baking sun in a  
cactus patch with parched lips pitifully croaking, "Water water".  
It's not like that. Get the data book and the water report and you'll  
see how far you have to go between water sources. Then just take  
enough to get to the next RELIABLE source and you'll be fine. There  
really are enough reliable, non-cached sources to hike this trail.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Keith Robertson <surferkeith at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] How much water?
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <838071.94352.qm at web82301.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Crystal, Regarding section A, here's some info that should help: Lake Morena
is 19 miles from the monument at the border with no water in between.
Daytime temperatures will dictate your water supply for that leg which is
about an 8-9 hour hike. There's plenty of water at Lake Morena. On the next
leg, there's water at a campground called Cibet's Flats at about 13 miles
but a good part of that is uphill toward Mt. Laguna and if the temps are
hot, stock up on water at Lake Morena. There's another campground with water
in late spring called Burnt Rancheria about 7 miles further. It's a bit
sketchy from there until barrel Spring which is another 3 day hike at least.
Find out about the caches and seasonal brooks and springs but be prepared.
Especially for the leg between scisssors crossing and barrel spring.; 23
miles of hot, shadeless, waterless hiking (with the exception of caches
stocked by trail angels).?The cache at scissors crossing should be stocked
 but you never know. 
?
Good Luck,
?
Handyrock

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:06:57 -0700
From: Tom Bache <tbache at san.rr.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Water in Sections A & B
To: <littlevixsin at gmail.com>
Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <C6CFDFD1.AD7C%tbache at san.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

7 or 8 liters of water is a lot!  8 liters of water weighs nearly 17 lbs.  I
live in San Diego and hike on or near Sections A & B very frequently, and I
sure try to avoid carrying anywhere near that much.

Here's the way I look at it.  Depending on your physiology and training to
exercise in hot weather, you may need 7-8 liters per 24 hours when it is
really hot.  But even then you can drink many of these liters at night and
at water sources, so you don't need to carry it.  Also, a substantial
fraction of Sections A & B is at altitudes over 4000' where high
temperatures (i.e., well over 90) aren't common except for a few hours in
the middle of the day.

There are many reliable water sources (not including caches) near the trail
in these sections.  You should know where they are (guidebook).  Most of the
time they are spaced so you can get between them with only a few liters.
There are a couple of exceptions that will require more water -- Campo to
Lake Morena and Tule Spring to Hwy 74 are long stretches, but can be done in
a day.  The one really big challenge is Rodriguez Canyon to Barrel Springs.
This is really long (about 30 miles) and is at 2000'-4000' altitudes where
it can be very hot.  Without caches, this is the one place where you might
need 7-8 liters (depends on whether there is water in the seasonal creek at
Scissors Crossing).

Of course, tolerance to dehydration shows very wide individual variations
and can be developed (i.e., trained).  You should be very confident that you
know your tolerance as you calculate your water needs.

Sections A & B are magnificent sections with spectacular scenery (few trees
to block the views!).  Enjoy them.

Tom Bache
San Diego

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:20:21 -0700
From: "dsaufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] How much water?
To: "'Keith Robertson'" <surferkeith at sbcglobal.net>,
	<pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000f01ca330c$86bf7980$943e6c80$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Just a note, the faucets were off at Burnt Rancheria and the campground was
closed when I hiked section A in March of '07. They probably turn them on
after the weather warms up a bit later in the season.  Given that it was
March, I found many of the seasonal streams running, and the wildflower
display was amazing. YMMV

L-Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of Keith Robertson
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:43 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] How much water?

Crystal, Regarding section A, here's some info that should help: Lake Morena
is 19 miles from the monument at the border with no water in between.
Daytime temperatures will dictate your water supply for that leg which is
about an 8-9 hour hike. There's plenty of water at Lake Morena. On the next
leg, there's water at a campground called Cibet's Flats at about 13 miles
but a good part of that is uphill toward Mt. Laguna and if the temps are
hot, stock up on water at Lake Morena. There's another campground with water
in late spring called Burnt Rancheria about 7 miles further. It's a bit
sketchy from there until barrel Spring which is another 3 day hike at least.
Find out about the caches and seasonal brooks and springs but be prepared.
Especially for the leg between scisssors crossing and barrel spring.; 23
miles of hot, shadeless, waterless hiking (with the exception of caches
stocked by trail angels).?The cache at scissors crossing should be stocked
 but you never know. 
?
Good Luck,
?
Handyrock
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Pct-l at backcountry.net
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:42:32 -0700
From: "Eric Lee" <saintgimp at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Water in Sections A & B
To: "'Tom Bache'" <tbache at san.rr.com>,	<littlevixsin at gmail.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <BAY124-DS6436BCA574E1CB695E8DEBDE70 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Tom wrote:
>
Of course, tolerance to dehydration shows very wide individual variations
and can be developed (i.e., trained).  You should be very confident that you
know your tolerance as you calculate your water needs.
>

Conditioning counts for a lot.  My section hike this year from Ashland to
Highway 138 north of Crater Lake was fairly dry and I noticed that I used
probably twice the amount of water that the thru-hikers I met used, despite
being in good physical shape and carrying a lighter pack than many thrus.  I
attribute that to a) me being a long-time Seattleite (my usual problem is an
over-abundance of water, not a scarcity), and b) not having four months of
trail conditioning.

Eric

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:00:45 -0700
From: "Erik The Black" <erik at eriktheblack.com>
Subject: [pct-l]  How much water????
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <8EEE1B6258664CA9885836FF679F1C78 at OfficeLaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Hi Crystal, 

You will probably consume at least 8 liters of water per day in the desert
between hiking and camping. But you will not need to carry that much except
in rare situations where the water sources are very spread out (like 30
miles or more).

For the most part, there is water available about every 20 miles or less on
the PCT, even in Southern California.

Personally, I drink about 2-3 liters of water for every ten miles of hiking
in hot, dry weather. So, I rarely carry more than 5-6 liters at a time. At
more than 2+ lbs per liter water is heavy! So you want to carry as much as
you need to be comfortable and safe, but not much more.

The most important thing is to know where the water sources are along the
trail, how reliable they are, and where you are in relation to them (because
some of them are easy to miss). 

I recommend Asabat's Water Report (http://www.4jeffrey.net/pct/), which
includes the most up-to-date water status info for SoCal, combined with the
PCT Atlas (http://www.pctatlas.com), which shows the locations of all the
major water sources right on the maps.

Once you know where the water sources are you can figure out how much water
to carry on each leg of your journey. It will vary from day to day.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
More Tips For Staying Hydrated While Reducing Water Weight:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Camel Up. Drink a liter of water (or as much as you can) at each water
source right before you hike out. That is one less liter you will have to
carry on your back.

* Siesta. Plan your day so that you hit a water source at around 10am. If
you can do that, then you can just hang out at the water (and hopefully some
shade) for 4-6 hours during the mid-day, drinking your fill and avoiding the
heat... and then do the rest of your hiking in the cool evening.

* Umbrella. A lightweight umbrella (like the Golite Chrome Dome) provides
portable shade that goes with you wherever you go, keeping the hot sun off
your head so you don't sweat as much and get sick from sun exposure.

* Night Hike. The desert is cool and beautiful at night. All the animals
come out from their dens and it transforms from a wasteland into lively
place. Night hiking is especially nice if you have a full moon to guide you,
but a headlamp will do.

Happy Trails!
Erik The Black

************************
Fall Clearance Sale
Save 20% Off A PCT Atlas!
http://www.pctatlas.com
************************

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:44:56 -0700
From: CRYSTAL NEZGODA <littlevixsin at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] How much water????
To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
	<86a66fba0909110944u515e1887ufe5aafb627a50034 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I am planning a section A and B hike for next season, the green pct book
says to bring atleast 8 liters of water per day... so I was wondering if you
guys could tell me about your experience with the desert section and water

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:12:12 -0700
From: Will Dane <w.e.dane at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Section K shuttle?
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
	<625e1d250909111212y24a02ebdtbfcf872d24bad473 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Does anyone know of any transport options from Truckee to the Echo Lake
Resort? I am planning to hike section K in a couple weeks and my wife can
only bring me as far as Truckee. It looks like the TART bus will only go as
far as Sugar Pine Point...are there other buses or options available after
that?

Thanks,

will

------------------------------

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End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 21, Issue 19
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