[pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 13, Issue 139

Sat Jan 31 19:37:52 CST 2009

>
> Let me say up front (before I open wide and insert foot) I have zero
> experience with bear canisters. But I do have an inkling based on my
> personal hiking experience.

Let me be clear I'm also not disputing all the advise to be very skeptical
about the claims of how much a bear canister can hold.

That said....let's be careful during this discussion to compare apples to
apples...

First the containers....as claimed on Bearvault.com...

The BV500  holds 700 cu in or 11.5L ~3.04 gallons -> 7 days (their claim)
The Garcia holds 615 cu in or 10.1L  ~2.67 gallons  -> 6 days
   (The classic bear canister)
The BV450  holds 440 cu in or 7.2L  ~1.99 gallons  -> 4 days

Even the slightest mixup here makes quite a difference.  So this is critical
when assessing the believability of anyone's personal experience or claim
with a bear canister.

Next the food. I agree and truly appreciate Postholer's point that
realistic density
(weight & volume) per calorie is extremely important when packing food into
your canister - you can't work miracles. that said....

While the estimates may be optimistic (some may interpret as
absurd), repackaging and choosing food wisely can make a huge difference.
 More important perhaps is that everyone is different in how they eat & what
they eat during their day hiking. Everyone's caloric needs are different per
day.

Typically if you hike slower, easier, and less miles most people assert that
you burn less calories each day. On the other hand, the more miles you hike
each day the less total days you're out, so you can travel farther on the
same canister (by hiking "bigger days"). Hiking more miles each day
doesburn more calories but not necessarily linearly - at least not for
me. Some
gurus swear they increase substantially their calories burned by hiking
harder & faster & longer. I have not find this personally.  Mine increases
too - but not substantially.

When I hike I typically eat no breakfast per se, and snack throughout the
day, but in relatively small amounts, then just one dinner meal. I hike
aggressively and all day. I sometimes am so tired I don't have a large
appetite for dinner. But I'm not in my 20's either.

I cite details of my example to illustrate this middle aged aggressive hiker
who weighed 140->125lbs during my AT thru hike - NOT for any bragging
rights.  (There's plenty out there older & younger who have kicked my butt)

I thru hiked the AT 07, the LT 08. I was 42 & 43 years old respectively. I
typically did 20's or greater since day 1.  I hiked with considerably
younger & larger hikers who at times had ferocious appetites, far exceeding
mine. While my appetite grew considerably I never came even close to such
humungous calories/day. Realistically I doubt I averaged more than 3-4000 a
day, if that, even near the end.  My appettite grew considerably & quickly
but then leveled off. I was capable of eating 3000+ calories at a single
sitting (Ironically at Bear's Den, VA - ate a large pizza  & pint of Ben &
Jerry's easily; White House Landing, ME ate 1/2lb + 1lb burger, fries,
beers, etc.) But on the trail I never ate a "double Lipton" plus cheese &
tuna like many younger friends did every nite! One lipton, sometimes without
tuna was plenty for dinna. Or a similar substitute.

For me, I bet I can go a week with a BV450 - maybe more! My Food bag & 1 or
2 other tiny items (toothpaste, soap, etc) for a week will likely fit into 2
gallon containers. I'm sure my small 770ml cup/pot probably wouldn't. (I
hope to trial this this spring before I hike the PCT in 2010.)

I have little doubt I can easily get a week outta the bigger canisters,
probably closer to 2 weeks.
But that's me! I may NOT be typical.

I'm not disagreeing at all with Postholer's & other's assertion that one
should be very skeptical of such claims for fear of being very hungry and
potentially at risk. That's excellent advise.

And of course I'd start carrying my first day's snacks/food outside the
canister because it doesn't matter. It's not cheating or breaking their
rules.  Bears will smell it when you open the canister to eat anyway. (So
maybe I can add another day to my estimates)

I guess my point is you gotta pull out all the stops to max out the
canister. And then know what's realistic for you. (by actual experience)

After my trial this spring I'll report back. Even if it's with my tail
between my legs!
(Wouldn't be the first or the last time I was way wrong)

FedEx

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Postholer" <public at postholer.com>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:43:59 -0800
> Subject: [pct-l] Cramming a BV450 - YMWV
>
>> Last summer when getting a permit from the ranger station just south
>> of Lone Pine, the lady ranger said that she and her colleagues had
>> stuffed nine days worth of food in the BV450.
>>
>
> 9 food days to a ranger is definitely not 9 food days for a thru-hiker. The
> fern feelers are on an unrealistic bender to get everyone to use bear
> canisters, so a little embellishment goes a long way in promoting the
> 'cause'.
>
> Let's look at it. Does anyone know of a higher calorie/volume 'food' than
> canola oil? It's roughly 30,000 calories per gallon. That's what I'll use
> for this example.
>
> A BV450 is slightly less than 2 gallons. If you were to fill it with canola
> oil, you'd have less than 60,000 calories at your disposal. Divide that by
> 10 days and you get:
>
> ~6,000 calories a day. Great! That's the upper end calorie requirement for
> most thru-hikers. The oil maximizes the use of space in the canister and
> it's calorie dense.
>
> With that absurd example behind us, anyone care to offer a realistic food
> example resulting in 60% of that calorie density?
>
> Another question. Has anyone ever carried a canister for a 9 day/200+ mile
> stretch with *all* their food in it? You either carried it in 2 canisters or
> left a substantial portion out of the canister.
>
> We would *love* to hear what past hikers did. Personally, I already know
> the answer.
> -postholer
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Trails : http://Postholer.Com
> Journals : http://Postholer.Com/journal
> Mobile : http://Postholer.Com/mobi
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Postholer" <public at postholer.com>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:56:57 -0800
> Subject: [pct-l] Sierra Entry Indicator
> The Sierra Entry Indicator is back!
> http://postholer.com/postholer/index.php#sei
>
> Using June 15th as the 'optimal' time for a northbound hiker to set off
> into the Sierra from Kennedy Meadows, this graphic will give you a ballpark
> idea.
>
> If you click on the 'blue bar' you'll get the handy CDEC Snow Graph for
> northern, central and southern California.
>
> It uses current conditions to determine the best time. It is not a forecast
> tool. It is most relevant the beginning of April when the snow is typically
> at it's peak. It is not a substitute for planning, YMMV, etc.
>
> -postholer
>
> ------------------------------------
> Trails : http://Postholer.Com
> Journals : http://Postholer.Com/journal
> Mobile : http://Postholer.Com/mobi
>
>
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