[pct-l] burying TP/feces

[patti kulesz]

						    First of all Gary....TP is PAPER...it contains chemicals for bleaching and making soft for the bum...therefore it is not a natural substance that should be left behind in the wilderness...whether it biodegrades or not (my opinion anyways). I think it's gross too to have to carry it out, but if you think about it...when we're at home do we through it away or do we lay it on the counter after we use it and wait for someone else to pick it up? It's the same thing out there in the wilderness. Even in a very populated place....just b/c the hikers are "going where they should be going" doesn't make it right to leave the paper there too. It takes a long time to decompose. It's made to be eliminated in toilets and sewage...not in dirt. I did some research b/c of this whole stupid conversation and found that some sites says 2-4 years and others say 40 years. Either way...it's a long time and if fires aren't enough damage to the forest...what do u think
 300 thru hikers crappin and leavin their TP out there does?

Also, if you go up to Whitney...there is NO pit toilet there anymore AND they are now requiring you to carry out your own poop....I'll stick to the TP...no pun intended of course.

As far as the dog poop goes...like I said before...dog foods are not usually organic or natural...again filled with lots of chemicals and BS (poor dogs).  Therefore, when they poop they let out all those un-natural substances into the ground for the critters who live there to pick up in their food, etc. Also, and if u own a dog u will and should know this, if one animal has worms or other disease, it can be picked up by another from just sniffing it...which is what animals do. 

I found this on one site:

Pet
waste can be a serious problem in recreation areas. With so many people
recreating with their pets, the potential to impact the environment is
great. Pet waste smells, can be a health hazard for people
(particularly children) and other animals, and is not natural to any
environment. Cleaning up after your pet helps protect water resources,
plant life, and habitat for native animals. The solution is
simple—clean up after your pet.

This is on the NPS site for Joshua Tree:

Dog Feces

Dog feces has a high nitrogen content and can negatively affect soils,
watersheds, and plants; it is unsightly and negatively affects the
experience of park visitors. Yet, dog owners frequently ignore
requirements to "scoop up" after their pets. Patrick Murphy counted
1,492 piles of dog feces on a single trail (Sanitas Valley Trail) in
Boulder, Colorado in one month, despite a city ordinance requiring dog
owners to pick up after their pets (Chester, 2003).
Disease and Parasite Transmission by Dogs

Dogs can transmit a number of pathogens to humans and wildlife via
feces, through blood-sucking insects, or directly to other species.
Toxocaria can cause blindness in children. Parvovirus affects other
canines, and was the source for wolf-pup mortality in Glacier National
Park in the early 1990s. Muscle cysts (Sarcocystis spp.) affects
ungulates such as deer and bighorn sheep. Leptospirosis is a bacterial
disease that affects the kidneys and urinary tract of most mammal
species. Parasites, such as ticks, keds, tapeworms, and fleas are
well-known problems in dogs that can be passed to other animals,
including humans. (Chester 2003).
this one is from the Bureau of Land Management...scroll down to "leave what you find"
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/prog/wilderness/leavenotrace.html

 "remove dog feces from trails and campsites" 

When I take dogs hiking, I usually tie the poop bag to their harness...then I don't have to carry it out.  They don't mind...heck they roll in the stuff and sometimes eat it....




patti

--- On Sun, 1/25/09, GARY HEBERT <hikerfedex at gmail.com> wrote:

From: GARY HEBERT <hikerfedex at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] burying TP/feces
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 5:16 PM

I am not aware of any leave no trace or other rule that does NOT allow for
burying your feces and TP. They specify distance from streams/water,
campsites, and trails, and how deep the hole should be, etc.
Obviously when a privy is available you should use that. Usually these are
in high traffic areas. I too have dug up others' TP, but that's a
density/overuse problem in busy areas/campsites. There are only so many
trees to go behind surrounding a busy campsite. It's not the hiker's fault.
They did follow policy.

I've not read of any policy suggesting I should not bury my TP.

Was somebody really suggesting hikers should pack out their dog's pooh?
(obviously in a public picnic/park area, sure. but on the trail in the
middle of the woods???)

Anybody know anything different on the PCT or elsewhere?

FedEx
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