[pct-l] What areas are off-limits for dogs?

[Ryan Gary]

Now that we've debated about whether or not dogs are a good idea, does
anyone know specifics on which parts of the trail are off-limits? I'm
looking at hiking Crater Lake --> Whitney. If it's going to be too hard to
avoid national parks and other areas in which they aren't allowed I may
reconsider, but I'd love to bring a good friend. Any advice?

Ryan

On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 12:41 AM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Trekking poles (AsABat)
>   2. some lodging... (jomike at cot.net)
>   3. Re: Dogs on trail (Andrew Jones)
>   4. Re: Dogs on the trail (jason moores)
>   5. Re: Dogs on trail (Gary Schenk)
>   6. Re: Dogs on the trail (patti kulesz)
>   7. Re: Dogs on the trail (Fuzz McPherson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:02:02 -0800
> From: "AsABat" <AsABat at 4Jeffrey.Net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trekking poles
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000f01c99175$459d55f0$6401010a at PC8>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> I had a dog encounter leaving Sierra City. The dog charged me, hair up
> and teeth bared. I had been walking on the asphalt with my poles
> clicking. The owner showed up as I was yelling at the top of my lungs
> (at 5:30 a.m.!) and called the dog back (I was a good dog, I was told)
> and suggested my "sticks" bothered the dog. I thought I was about to
> find out just how well my "sticks" would defend against a dog that
> appeared very unhappy with me.
>
> I did learn on a recent hike with MY dog that my dog reacts differently
> to MY poles. She is rather protective and also insecure, so she often
> would bark and lunge towards someone passing (and I can usually tell who
> she'll bark at). I found if I place my trekking pole between her and the
> other party, she stays at the side and ignores them. Very cool. (No, she
> does not hike long trails with me, just some short in-town routes.)
>
> AsABat
>
> > I just want to give a plug for trekking poles. Aside from the regular
> > things most people know about them, with poles you can:
> >
> > * Cross them in front of you so dogs won't rub up/slobber up against
> > you or be able to bite you as easily
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:03:01 -0800
> From: <jomike at cot.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] some lodging...
> To: <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <6475501A2AE44D9CA25487680BC945F8 at arewethereyePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> There is a couple in Big Bear, just off the trail who are opening their
> homes, yes homes to all thru hikers.
>
> *****************************
>
> Sounds generous and lovely. Thru hikers only?
>
> are we there yet
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:12:52 -0600
> From: Andrew Jones <a.freddy.j at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on trail
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>        <c75c07da0902171912v7fb6f22fy65e1d64183a7c13a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Fuzz, Gary, et al.-
>
> You asked about how we plan to do manage with the dog on trail. I'll give
> the brief rundown. First off, there is a lot of trail she's not allowed on.
> For the larger sections (National Parks) we have friends to pick her up and
> drop her off. For some places, it just involves a lot of road miles, which
> I
> don't like, but I accept the rules and get over it.
>
> She requires a lot of water, and we'll have the capacity to carry 8-10
> liters each (my wife and I), at least for the desert and more waterless
> stretches of trail (eg Hat Creek Rim). The dog gets priority on the water -
> we will go thirsty so she doesn't. She also will need high calorie food,
> and
> we'll be feeding her Blue Buffalo Wilderness - expensive but very dense,
> high protein high fat stuff. Plus she'll get a bit of our human food every
> night. We won't do as many miles per day as most through hikers, and we'll
> be starting in early April, way ahead of the pack, so we can get through
> the
> desert, hopefully, before temperatures get too unbearable. Most of our
> hiking in the warmer trail sections will be especially short days, mostly
> hiking in early morning and late evening. Our distance between resupplies
> will probably be lower than average, too, with a high number of zero days,
> especially when we're just starting out.
>
> Rattlesnakes concern us, and we've been doing some training with her using
> a
> the voice command "behind," where she then understands to hike behind one
> of
> us (whoever doesn't have her leash in hand). It's tricky, but so far, so
> good, and we'll be using that through much of the desert. Thanks, Patti,
> for
> letting us know about the rattlesnake training course - we just might have
> her do that.
>
> She will not carry her own pack - I don't really think she's built for it,
> and she really hates it. This probably isn't even all that true, but we
> tend
> to be overly cautious with her, and I can tell when my back hurts from
> extra
> weight and I'm overdoing it, but I can't always tell with the dog. The
> other
> main thing is her feet - the only reason I've ever seen her want to quit
> hiking was when she tore up her feet going over a pass in the Absarokas -
> on
> that trip we didn't put her boots on when we should have, but we won't be
> making that mistake again. For boots, we're using Ruffwear Grip Trex, and
> we
> also have their Cloud Chaser (warming) and Swamp Cooler (cooling) jackets.
> For the lead, it's a 20' retractable Flexi that is modified with two
> homemade shock absorbing sections. I hike with my pack waistband through a
> bungee cord attachment on the leash so my hands are free.
>
> As for breeds, Uffizi (ooo-FEET-see) is a red-bone coonhound mix - those
> hounds are bred for long-distance hunting such as bear and cougar. She has
> long legs and a strong, fluid gait and really can go long distances
> tirelessly. Our other dog is a rottweiler/lab, who is almost the same
> height, but has a choppier gait (and an old leg injury), and we would never
> consider trying to make him do the trail (even though he would follow us no
> matter how much it hurt). So he'll be staying with family for this summer.
>
> That's about all. Maybe I'll write a book....
>
> Andy
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:47:10 -0700
> From: jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <COL109-W62DA174669272DBB992DF3C1B50 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>
> Buzz off Fuzz.
>
> My loudmouth comment was posted over and hour before monty listed his
> stories. My comments were directed at people making threats against
> dogs/owners. Although my comments were not directed at you, they are now.
> You are a loudmouth and a braggart. And I'll tell ya: I don't give a f**K if
> you carry more than pepper spray, tough guy.
>
> jason
>
> > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:59:29 -0800
> > From: fuzzmcpherson at yahoo.com
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> >
> > In case you want a read on who here is a loudmouth or a bragger, if being
> chased down by 7 dogs or cornered into a bee's hive is bragging in your
> opinion, and I'm not saying you are saying it is, keep in mind that the
> comments being made on here are very worthwhile.  When a guy has a list that
> is long, and it's only a partial list, of the bad encounters he's had with
> dogs, I think that by sharing that people, especially dog owners, could gain
> some perspective on what it's like to have Dobermans growling and cornering
> you while the owners are nowhere in site.  It also makes for being able to
> avoid some dangerous and possibly sad situations.  I have heard Bob loud and
> clear about his stance on how attacking dogs would be treated.  He didn't
> have to give you that insight.  I don't have to give you mine.  Again, by
> all means, if you think your dog can handle being out on the trail, that is
> awesome.  I'm sure it would be fun to have your dog out there.  I can
> >  imagine having one out there if I had the time to actually own a dog.  I
> can understand, see your point of view, etc.  For me, though, being attacked
> is being attacked.  Period.  Bob, I, and others are just trying to let you
> know it's not ok that the dog attacks because you don't believe it would
> attack, and because there is a human somewhere that gets it its shots and
> calls it by a name.
> >
> > This loudmouth for one can hang on the trail, and has, for 100 miles a
> day at times.  That's not a brag, it's a fact.  I also carry more than
> pepper spray or a trekking pole.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 10:41:53 AM
> > Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> >
> >
> > "Vitriolic Crusader," nice. Very nice.
> >
> > A few other things to consider here, per Eric's comments: Most of the
> "vitriolic" posters to this list wont be on the trail this year. Also, I
> find that loudmouths tend to be weaklings in the end. More than a few will
> drop off the trail in first 200 miles. Hell, I might not make it either.
> >
> > The people that I would consider people of action, seldom talk or brag.
> They Do. I wouldn't let the posturing of a few deter you from bringing your
> pup. If your dog is as well behaved as you say, don't sweat it. Have a fun
> walk.
> >
> > jason
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
> > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:44:22 -0800
> From: Gary Schenk <gwschenk at socal.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on trail
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Cc: Andrew Jones <a.freddy.j at gmail.com>
> Message-ID: <200902172144.22574.gwschenk at socal.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Tuesday 17 February 2009 19:12:52 Andrew Jones wrote:
> > Fuzz, Gary, et al.-
> >
> > You asked about how we plan to do manage with the dog on trail. I'll give
> > the brief rundown. First off, there is a lot of trail she's not allowed
> on.
> > For the larger sections (National Parks) we have friends to pick her up
> and
> > drop her off. For some places, it just involves a lot of road miles,
> which
> > I don't like, but I accept the rules and get over it.
> >
> > She requires a lot of water, and we'll have the capacity to carry 8-10
> > liters each (my wife and I), at least for the desert and more waterless
> > stretches of trail (eg Hat Creek Rim). The dog gets priority on the water
> -
> > we will go thirsty so she doesn't. She also will need high calorie food,
> > and we'll be feeding her Blue Buffalo Wilderness - expensive but very
> > dense, high protein high fat stuff. Plus she'll get a bit of our human
> food
> > every night. We won't do as many miles per day as most through hikers,
> and
> > we'll be starting in early April, way ahead of the pack, so we can get
> > through the desert, hopefully, before temperatures get too unbearable.
> Most
> > of our hiking in the warmer trail sections will be especially short days,
> > mostly hiking in early morning and late evening. Our distance between
> > resupplies will probably be lower than average, too, with a high number
> of
> > zero days, especially when we're just starting out.
> >
> > Rattlesnakes concern us, and we've been doing some training with her
> using
> > a the voice command "behind," where she then understands to hike behind
> one
> > of us (whoever doesn't have her leash in hand). It's tricky, but so far,
> so
> > good, and we'll be using that through much of the desert. Thanks, Patti,
> > for letting us know about the rattlesnake training course - we just might
> > have her do that.
> >
> > She will not carry her own pack - I don't really think she's built for
> it,
> > and she really hates it. This probably isn't even all that true, but we
> > tend to be overly cautious with her, and I can tell when my back hurts
> from
> > extra weight and I'm overdoing it, but I can't always tell with the dog.
> > The other main thing is her feet - the only reason I've ever seen her
> want
> > to quit hiking was when she tore up her feet going over a pass in the
> > Absarokas - on that trip we didn't put her boots on when we should have,
> > but we won't be making that mistake again. For boots, we're using
> Ruffwear
> > Grip Trex, and we also have their Cloud Chaser (warming) and Swamp Cooler
> > (cooling) jackets. For the lead, it's a 20' retractable Flexi that is
> > modified with two homemade shock absorbing sections. I hike with my pack
> > waistband through a bungee cord attachment on the leash so my hands are
> > free.
> >
> > As for breeds, Uffizi (ooo-FEET-see) is a red-bone coonhound mix - those
> > hounds are bred for long-distance hunting such as bear and cougar. She
> has
> > long legs and a strong, fluid gait and really can go long distances
> > tirelessly. Our other dog is a rottweiler/lab, who is almost the same
> > height, but has a choppier gait (and an old leg injury), and we would
> never
> > consider trying to make him do the trail (even though he would follow us
> no
> > matter how much it hurt). So he'll be staying with family for this
> summer.
> >
> > That's about all. Maybe I'll write a book....
> >
> > Andy
>
> Wow, that's a lot of work. Best of luck to you.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:45:05 -0800 (PST)
> From: patti kulesz <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net, jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>
> Message-ID: <243513.28887.qm at web54405.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> ok u two...time out! then u can talk about this to each other in
> private...and be nice ok?
>
> patti
>
> --- On Tue, 2/17/09, jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 8:47 PM
>
>
> Buzz off Fuzz.
>
> My loudmouth comment was posted over and hour before monty listed his
> stories. My comments were directed at people making threats against
> dogs/owners. Although my comments were not directed at you, they are now.
> You are a loudmouth and a braggart. And I'll tell ya: I don't give a f**K if
> you carry more than pepper spray, tough guy.
>
> jason
>
> > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:59:29 -0800
> > From: fuzzmcpherson at yahoo.com
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> >
> > In case you want a read on who here is a loudmouth or a bragger, if being
> chased down by 7 dogs or cornered into a bee's hive is bragging in your
> opinion, and I'm not saying you are saying it is, keep in mind that the
> comments being made on here are very worthwhile.? When a guy has a list that
> is long, and it's only a partial list, of the bad encounters he's had with
> dogs, I think that by sharing that people, especially dog owners, could gain
> some perspective on what it's like to have Dobermans growling and cornering
> you while the owners are nowhere in site.? It also makes for being able to
> avoid some dangerous and possibly sad situations.? I have heard Bob loud and
> clear about his stance on how attacking dogs would be treated.? He didn't
> have to give you that insight.? I don't have to give you mine.? Again, by
> all means, if you think your dog can handle being out on the trail, that is
> awesome.? I'm sure it would be fun to have your dog out
>  there.? I can
> >? imagine having one out there if I had the time to actually own a dog.? I
> can understand, see your point of view, etc.? For me, though, being attacked
> is being attacked.? Period.? Bob, I, and others are just trying to let you
> know it's not ok that the dog attacks because you don't believe it would
> attack, and because there is a human somewhere that gets it its shots and
> calls it by a name.?
> >
> > This loudmouth for one can hang on the trail, and has, for 100 miles a
> day at times.? That's not a brag, it's a fact.? I also carry more than
> pepper spray or a trekking pole.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 10:41:53 AM
> > Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> >
> >
> > "Vitriolic Crusader," nice. Very nice.
> >
> > A few other things to consider here, per Eric's comments: Most of the
> "vitriolic" posters to this list wont be on the trail this year. Also, I
> find that loudmouths tend to be weaklings in the end. More than a few will
> drop off the trail in first 200 miles. Hell, I might not make it either.
> >
> > The people that I would consider people of action, seldom talk or brag.
> They Do. I wouldn't let the posturing of a few deter you from bringing your
> pup. If your dog is as well behaved as you say, don't sweat it. Have a fun
> walk.
> >
> > jason
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
> > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> >
> >
> >? ? ???
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:45:32 -0800 (PST)
> From: Fuzz McPherson <fuzzmcpherson at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> To: jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <812958.80859.qm at web111402.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> K.  You have an opinion.  We heard you.  Have a fun hike and good luck.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:47:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
>
>
> Buzz off Fuzz.
>
> My loudmouth comment was posted over and hour before monty listed his
> stories. My comments were directed at people making threats against
> dogs/owners. Although my comments were not directed at you, they are now.
> You are a loudmouth and a braggart. And I'll tell ya: I don't give a f**K if
> you carry more than pepper spray, tough guy.
>
> jason
>
> > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:59:29 -0800
> > From: fuzzmcpherson at yahoo.com
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> >
> > In case you want a read on who here is a loudmouth or a bragger, if being
> chased down by 7 dogs or cornered into a bee's hive is bragging in your
> opinion, and I'm not saying you are saying it is, keep in mind that the
> comments being made on here are very worthwhile.  When a guy has a list that
> is long, and it's only a partial list, of the bad encounters he's had with
> dogs, I think that by sharing that people, especially dog owners, could gain
> some perspective on what it's like to have Dobermans growling and cornering
> you while the owners are nowhere in site.  It also makes for being able to
> avoid some dangerous and possibly sad situations.  I have heard Bob loud and
> clear about his stance on how attacking dogs would be treated.  He didn't
> have to give you that insight.  I don't have to give you mine.  Again, by
> all means, if you think your dog can handle being out on the trail, that is
> awesome.  I'm sure it would be fun to have your dog out there.  I
>  can
> >  imagine having one out there if I had the time to actually own a dog.  I
> can understand, see your point of view, etc.  For me, though, being attacked
> is being attacked.  Period.  Bob, I, and others are just trying to let you
> know it's not ok that the dog attacks because you don't believe it would
> attack, and because there is a human somewhere that gets it its shots and
> calls it by a name.
> >
> > This loudmouth for one can hang on the trail, and has, for 100 miles a
> day at times.  That's not a brag, it's a fact.  I also carry more than
> pepper spray or a trekking pole.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 10:41:53 AM
> > Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
> >
> >
> > "Vitriolic Crusader," nice. Very nice.
> >
> > A few other things to consider here, per Eric's comments: Most of the
> "vitriolic" posters to this list wont be on the trail this year. Also, I
> find that loudmouths tend to be weaklings in the end. More than a few will
> drop off the trail in first 200 miles. Hell, I might not make it either.
> >
> > The people that I would consider people of action, seldom talk or brag.
> They Do. I wouldn't let the posturing of a few deter you from bringing your
> pup. If your dog is as well behaved as you say, don't sweat it. Have a fun
> walk.
> >
> > jason
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
> > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_022009
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_explore_022009
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 103
> **************************************
>