[pct-l] sierra club

[Stephen]

Ever follow a string of pack mules?  Hiking up into the Ansel Adams 
Wilderness once I could not figure which was worse, my farts or the mules. 
So I said to the packer from a switchback, "You must be feeding your mules 
the same stuff I'm eating."
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ellen Shopes" <igellen at comcast.net>
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:35 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] sierra club


> Those people who experience the wilderness in any form are those most 
> likely
> to appreciate and protect it.  Organizations like the Sierra Club, Boy
> Scouts, etc, have their share of inexperienced folks.  I like to think 
> that
> John Muir recognized that getting people out there was the first step in
> protecting a place (even at risk of degrading the wilderness experience).
> At Grand Canyon, every year I would hear people complain about the
> commercial mule trips--they erode the trail, kick up dust, and the piss
> ponds were something to smell!  With all that, think of how many more 
> people
> got to know the canyon intimately!  How enthused they came away from their
> mule trip about the wonders in the canyon!  We win advocates for the
> wilderness this way.
> Ellen
>
>
>
>>I didn't say what I read, but a few comments are pretty nasty.  But I have
>> explored a good deal of what's in Peaks, Passes and Trails, and from what
>> I
>> gather from my experience in comparison, a good deal more than the 
>> author.
>> And I said accidents, not death, but you can include it if you like. 
>> Some
>> lady took a nice dive this last early season, I think it was approaching
>> Mt
>> Mendal.  Just because you join a club doesn't mean you are particularly
>> suited to its activities.  Anyone can buy tools; doesn't mean they are
>> mechanically inclined. Catch my meaning.  You can root for the club all
>> you
>> want, I just know what I've encountered and heard from trail crews and
>> rangers over many years in the Sierra and Southwest.  I'm also not
>> suggesting the SC or anyone involved is good, bad ,or irresponsible.
>> However, it was a SC outing that the man suffered the bear slash from
>> imporper food storage, and a SC outing that had the broken ankle on the
>> Middlefork Kings. It was a SC outing when the woman tossed to her death
>> over
>> near Darwin, and it was a SC outing that they had this water crossing
>> trouble that could have been easily avoided.  It was also a SC outing I
>> believe when Secor pitched a little while ago near Baldy area.  Nothing
>> personal, and I have met some real nice folks from SC outings, but a good
>> many have absolutley no business out in the backcountry. Ever heard of 
>> car
>> camping?  So I'm on Muir Pass about nine years ago.  There is a small
>> group,
>> about seven or eight.  Oh well, I'll just say howdy and have my snack
>> right.
>> All good.  Then some lady gets on her cell phone and starts yackin away
>> like
>> she's in the market or who knows what she was thinkin.  Really rude, so I
>> put on my rude hat too and that was solved imediately.  Funny thing is I
>> ran
>> into this group again about a few days later going out over Keasarge. 
>> The
>> lady looked like she'd been ostrisized and the rest of the group seemed
>> kinda glad to see me and was very friendly.  Hum?  So what I'm telling 
>> you
>> by this little story is having a high profile club sort of creates a sort
>> of
>> image for all.  Sloppy camps, rude people, accidents, improper 
>> backcountry
>> etiquite, and approaching the mountians with an attitude of propriety.
>> I'm
>> sure it's actually worse outside the club like the father and son who got
>> lost over Gardiner Pass for a couple days,or the PCT'r who tossed 'cause
>> he
>> had no axe, but when you have a high profile people tend to notice more,
>> and
>> when you have a name with Sierra in it, you have a lot to live up to.  I
>> just don't see it.  What you have now is a big political lobby that has
>> become a bit unwiedly and lost focus many years gone now.  Meanwhile the
>> backcountry experience has deteriorated, and I'm not so sure part of the
>> reason isn't the SC itself.  Change is good, try it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Gary Schenk" <gwschenk at socal.rr.com>
>> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] stream crossing near miss
>>
>>
>>> On Monday 02 February 2009 23:54:06 Stephen wrote:
>>>> Yeah and they tend to have a lot of accidents, seems a trait common to
>>>> SC
>>>> outings.
>>>
>>> In 50+ years of the Sierra Club's Angeles Chapter's Sierra Peaks Section
>>> climbing throughout the Sierra, there has been one death on an outing.
>>>
>>>>No disrepect to Mr Secor, but there are some interesting comments
>>>>regarding him in a numberof peak registeries.
>>>
>>> Don't believe everything you read in a register.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Gary
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>>
>>
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