[pct-l] whippet

[colin mcCann]

 hello, all...planning for an '09 thru hike.. getting psyched..been looking at the black diamond whippet pole for the sierra.. it is heavier than some of the lighter ice axes out there.. (14oz.).too heavy, in my opinion, to justify hanging it on my pack when not in use..(i'd just assume bring an axe).. I was thinking of bouncing one of my normal poles ahead and going with the one pole and the whippet for the sierra, but the pick doesn't come detached from the pole on the latest model.wondering if anyone out there has hiked with one of these things... how would it work out as a normal trekking pole with the pick attached, coupled with the one regular pole? it's a long stretch from k.m. to echo lake or what have you..better to just stick with the traditional ice axe?let me know your thoughts..ok...been enjoying the list.. see ya'll on the trail.. colin> From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net> Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 27> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:17:16 -0600> > Send Pct-l mailing list submissions to> 	pct-l at backcountry.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> 	http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> 	pct-l-request at backcountry.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at> 	pct-l-owner at backcountry.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Pct-l digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> >    1. Re: stream crossing death (Tortoise)>    2. Re: stream crossing death (Tortoise)>    3. Re: Crossings (Tortoise)>    4. Re: PCT Numbers & Stehekin P. O. (patti kulesz)>    5. Re: PCT Numbers & Stehekin P. O. (Brian Lewis)>    6. Mono Creek South at VVR Ford? (Stephen)>    7. Stehekin P. O. (jason moores)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:52:20 -0800> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] stream crossing death> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID: <498910F4.3010200 at charter.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > I should learn from this, especially the picture!> > I would likely have tried to cross with my pack on.  Of course the > picture doesn't show the whole stream so the rest may have changed my mind.> > Live and learn.  don't die during the lesson.> > Tortoise> > <> He who finishes last, wins! <>> > > > kmurray at pol.net wrote:>> Yeah, keep your pack straps tight.  Have you ever practiced getting out? >> Do you know what your bodies' physiologic response is when suddenly>> immersed in near freezing water?  You die if you are wrong, you are not>> going to practice this, and guess?  Good luck!>>>> Picture of backpacker crossing the stream that killed him:>>>> http://www.climber.org/TripReports/images/1400/1432-DelOnAnotherDifficultRockHoppingCrossing.jpg>>>> Accident Report Form submitted to Accidents in North American Mountaineering>>>> Report submitted by Ed Lulofs, 1195-4 W Calle De Las Estrellas, Azusa, CA>> 91702, elulofs at yahoo.com. I was there.>>>> Date of Accident: July 16, 2004>>>> Geographic Location: Rundle glacier outwash stream, Owl River, Baffin>> Island, Auyuittuq National Park, Canada's Nunavut.>>>> Names (or use a number) and ages of person directly involved:>> Del Hildebrand Age: 61>> Ed Lulofs Age: 51>>>> Total Number of Persons in Party or Class: 2>>>> Details of the Accident: Lost footing crossing fast icy stream with heavy>> pack. Failed to discard pack in the water. Dragged through 1/2 km of>> rapids. CPR failed to revive. Probable drowning, possible concussion or>> broken neck.>>>> Experience Level: [ ] none or little ( 1st year) [X] moderate (1-3 years)>> [ ] experienced [ ] other>>>> Narrative Description of Accident (use extra sheet if necessary):>> It started to rain about 4AM. Del woke at 5AM and saw that the group near>> us had crossed the stream. He liked to hike in the rain. He had finished,>> the day before, the paperback book that he had brought and so had nothing>> to do or read while waiting. He was the trip leader and decided to try to>> cross. I hurriedly packed up. There were smaller stream crossing of 1/2 km>> before we reached the main stream, and as always, he was several hundred>> meters ahead of me. Not a good idea. He was pacing up and down the main>> channel looking for the best place to cross for the 5 minutes that it took>> me to catch up to him. Finally he picked a spot. He HAD his pack>> unbuckled. After he was a few steps out into the stream and I could see>> that it was difficult for him and that there was a good chance of him>> falling, I took off my pack and put it down on the gravel bar. He had one>> foot on the other shore-I thought that he had made it, then he fell in and>> was washed the 10 meters downstream and back to my side of the stream. I>> helped him get up. Water was dripping from his pack. I suggested that we>> camp and dry out. He didn't want to spend a third night at this site. Del>> had only brought one hiking pole. I handed him one of mine and told him to>> throw it back to me after he crossed. This had worked for me in the Yukon.>> He was concerned about losing it and handed it back to me. He violated>> another rule and went back to the same place to try to cross again. Now my>> memories become less clear as things started happening fast. I think that>> he only made it halfway across this second time. He fell down, was washed>> the 10 meters back to near where I was, got a grip on the river bed while>> on his hands and knees. He was only there for seconds and then he was>> carried downstream again. I remember him looking very surprised. He was>> only carried 10 meters when he started tumbling head over heals backwards.>>>> With two poles and without my pack, I was just barely able to cross. Not>> crossing was not an option as all of the little streams that we had just>> previously crossed had merged into an obviously uncrossable stream just>> downstream from our position on the gravel bar. I hurried downstream as>> fast as I could watching for him - hoping he was clinging to a rock. After>> 1/2 km-it must have taken me 10 minutes to get there, I saw his pack,>> praying that he wasn't with it. I was near panic now. I recall ignoring>> rapids and stepping in chest deep holes in the stream to reach him.>>>> I found him in about six inches of water. The current had stripped off>> most of his clothes. He still had one arm through his pack strap! I don't>> specifically have a memory of his face in the water, but it must have been>> as I wanted to get him out of the water. I grabbed his arm and started>> pulling him toward shallow water. But with the pack still attached, the>> current pulled him out of my grasp and he was going downstream again. I>> decided that I couldn't get him out of the water by myself. Later I>> calculated that his pack could weight 200 pounds filled with water, and he>> was 6 foot tall and so almost 200 pounds. I couldn't do anything with>> 300-400 pounds in the water. Couldn't even roll him over because of his>> pack.>>>> There was an emergency shelter with a radio nearby, so I ran the 200>> meters over to it. I saw three packs in front and started calling for>> help. Ian, Dene, & Jordon who had crossed earlier were inside. Ian put>> Jordon on the radio and sat phone to call for help. Ian, Dene, & I ran>> back to help Del. Del had always carried his boots tied together over his>> neck when we were wearing our water sandals. The boots were twisted about>> his neck. My knife was in my pack 1/2 km upstream. Ian cut the boots off.>> We separated Del from his pack. Ian wanted to start CPR there in the 6>> inch flowing icy water, I wanted him taken to shore. We compromised and>> carried him to the gravel bar. This is the first time that I looked at my>> watch and it was 7:04AM. I instructed Ian and Dene to assist me with CPR>> for 40-50 minutes while we were kneeling on gravel with water trickling>> through. My knees are still healing from being rubbed raw while kneeling>> on the gravel. Then we carried Del to the stream bank where Ian and I>> worked for about 30 minutes until I was becoming hypothermic. We then all>> stayed in the emergency shelter until the helicopter evacuated us.>>>> What we didn't know until after the accident was that the other group,>> Ian, Dene, and Jordon, had crossed went at 4AM, nearly 3 hours before we>> attempted it, and crossed together as a group whereas Del attempted to>> cross by himself.>>>>>> Analysis of Accident: What knowledge and techniques will help prevent>> future accidents?>> Before stepping into the water: practice several times: pretend that I am>> falling in the water and discard my pack.>>>> When someone falls in the stream, shout: drop your pack.>>>> Don't hurry in the wilderness; patience, think!>>>> Follow the known rules for stream crossing.>>>> Don't carry your boots around your neck.>>>> Look for crossings away from a long rapids.>>>>>> Additional Comments:>> Del was an intelligent, experienced backpacker in excellent condition.>> Impatience and not discarding his pack caused his death. Icy water should>> have helped the CPR to revive him. I suspect he also had a concussion>> and/or broken neck.>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>> Pct-l mailing list>> Pct-l at backcountry.net>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>>>>   > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:54:13 -0800> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] stream crossing death> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID: <49891165.6030509 at charter.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > I should learn from this, especially the picture!> > I would likely have tried to cross with my pack on.  Of course the > picture doesn't show the whole stream so the rest may have changed my mind.> > Live and learn.  don't die during the lesson.> > Tortoise> > <> He who finishes last, wins! <>> > > > kmurray at pol.net wrote:>> Yeah, keep your pack straps tight.  Have you ever practiced getting out? >> Do you know what your bodies' physiologic response is when suddenly>> immersed in near freezing water?  You die if you are wrong, you are not>> going to practice this, and guess?  Good luck!>>>> Picture of backpacker crossing the stream that killed him:>>>> http://www.climber.org/TripReports/images/1400/1432-DelOnAnotherDifficultRockHoppingCrossing.jpg>>>> Accident Report Form submitted to Accidents in North American Mountaineering>>>> Report submitted by Ed Lulofs, 1195-4 W Calle De Las Estrellas, Azusa, CA>> 91702, elulofs at yahoo.com. I was there.>>>> Date of Accident: July 16, 2004>>>> Geographic Location: Rundle glacier outwash stream, Owl River, Baffin>> Island, Auyuittuq National Park, Canada's Nunavut.>>>> Names (or use a number) and ages of person directly involved:>> Del Hildebrand Age: 61>> Ed Lulofs Age: 51>>>> Total Number of Persons in Party or Class: 2>>>> Details of the Accident: Lost footing crossing fast icy stream with heavy>> pack. Failed to discard pack in the water. Dragged through 1/2 km of>> rapids. CPR failed to revive. Probable drowning, possible concussion or>> broken neck.>>>> Experience Level: [ ] none or little ( 1st year) [X] moderate (1-3 years)>> [ ] experienced [ ] other>>>> Narrative Description of Accident (use extra sheet if necessary):>> It started to rain about 4AM. Del woke at 5AM and saw that the group near>> us had crossed the stream. He liked to hike in the rain. He had finished,>> the day before, the paperback book that he had brought and so had nothing>> to do or read while waiting. He was the trip leader and decided to try to>> cross. I hurriedly packed up. There were smaller stream crossing of 1/2 km>> before we reached the main stream, and as always, he was several hundred>> meters ahead of me. Not a good idea. He was pacing up and down the main>> channel looking for the best place to cross for the 5 minutes that it took>> me to catch up to him. Finally he picked a spot. He HAD his pack>> unbuckled. After he was a few steps out into the stream and I could see>> that it was difficult for him and that there was a good chance of him>> falling, I took off my pack and put it down on the gravel bar. He had one>> foot on the other shore-I thought that he had made it, then he fell in and>> was washed the 10 meters downstream and back to my side of the stream. I>> helped him get up. Water was dripping from his pack. I suggested that we>> camp and dry out. He didn't want to spend a third night at this site. Del>> had only brought one hiking pole. I handed him one of mine and told him to>> throw it back to me after he crossed. This had worked for me in the Yukon.>> He was concerned about losing it and handed it back to me. He violated>> another rule and went back to the same place to try to cross again. Now my>> memories become less clear as things started happening fast. I think that>> he only made it halfway across this second time. He fell down, was washed>> the 10 meters back to near where I was, got a grip on the river bed while>> on his hands and knees. He was only there for seconds and then he was>> carried downstream again. I remember him looking very surprised. He was>> only carried 10 meters when he started tumbling head over heals backwards.>>>> With two poles and without my pack, I was just barely able to cross. Not>> crossing was not an option as all of the little streams that we had just>> previously crossed had merged into an obviously uncrossable stream just>> downstream from our position on the gravel bar. I hurried downstream as>> fast as I could watching for him - hoping he was clinging to a rock. After>> 1/2 km-it must have taken me 10 minutes to get there, I saw his pack,>> praying that he wasn't with it. I was near panic now. I recall ignoring>> rapids and stepping in chest deep holes in the stream to reach him.>>>> I found him in about six inches of water. The current had stripped off>> most of his clothes. He still had one arm through his pack strap! I don't>> specifically have a memory of his face in the water, but it must have been>> as I wanted to get him out of the water. I grabbed his arm and started>> pulling him toward shallow water. But with the pack still attached, the>> current pulled him out of my grasp and he was going downstream again. I>> decided that I couldn't get him out of the water by myself. Later I>> calculated that his pack could weight 200 pounds filled with water, and he>> was 6 foot tall and so almost 200 pounds. I couldn't do anything with>> 300-400 pounds in the water. Couldn't even roll him over because of his>> pack.>>>> There was an emergency shelter with a radio nearby, so I ran the 200>> meters over to it. I saw three packs in front and started calling for>> help. Ian, Dene, & Jordon who had crossed earlier were inside. Ian put>> Jordon on the radio and sat phone to call for help. Ian, Dene, & I ran>> back to help Del. Del had always carried his boots tied together over his>> neck when we were wearing our water sandals. The boots were twisted about>> his neck. My knife was in my pack 1/2 km upstream. Ian cut the boots off.>> We separated Del from his pack. Ian wanted to start CPR there in the 6>> inch flowing icy water, I wanted him taken to shore. We compromised and>> carried him to the gravel bar. This is the first time that I looked at my>> watch and it was 7:04AM. I instructed Ian and Dene to assist me with CPR>> for 40-50 minutes while we were kneeling on gravel with water trickling>> through. My knees are still healing from being rubbed raw while kneeling>> on the gravel. Then we carried Del to the stream bank where Ian and I>> worked for about 30 minutes until I was becoming hypothermic. We then all>> stayed in the emergency shelter until the helicopter evacuated us.>>>> What we didn't know until after the accident was that the other group,>> Ian, Dene, and Jordon, had crossed went at 4AM, nearly 3 hours before we>> attempted it, and crossed together as a group whereas Del attempted to>> cross by himself.>>>>>> Analysis of Accident: What knowledge and techniques will help prevent>> future accidents?>> Before stepping into the water: practice several times: pretend that I am>> falling in the water and discard my pack.>>>> When someone falls in the stream, shout: drop your pack.>>>> Don't hurry in the wilderness; patience, think!>>>> Follow the known rules for stream crossing.>>>> Don't carry your boots around your neck.>>>> Look for crossings away from a long rapids.>>>>>> Additional Comments:>> Del was an intelligent, experienced backpacker in excellent condition.>> Impatience and not discarding his pack caused his death. Icy water should>> have helped the CPR to revive him. I suspect he also had a concussion>> and/or broken neck.>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________>> Pct-l mailing list>> Pct-l at backcountry.net>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>>>>   > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:23:33 -0800> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Crossings> To: mark v <allemande6 at yahoo.com>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID: <49891845.6020102 at charter.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > or carry an inflatable raft with paddle.> > Tortoise> > <> He who finishes last, wins! <>> > > > mark v wrote:>>>> Yes you're right.  When fording the Columbia River, i really ought to loosen my pack straps.  Still, i would recommend waiting to see if the river goes down.  Usually in the morning it's only 180 feet deep, instead of 190 feet.  >>>>>>       >> _______________________________________________>> Pct-l mailing list>> Pct-l at backcountry.net>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>>>>   > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:50:20 -0800 (PST)> From: patti kulesz <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT Numbers & Stehekin P. O.> To: pct-l at backcountry.net, jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>> Message-ID: <564205.77423.qm at web54402.mail.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1> > what a bunch of jerks!> > patti> > --- On Tue, 2/3/09, jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com> wrote:> > From: jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>> Subject: [pct-l] PCT Numbers & Stehekin P. O.> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 7:44 PM> > > I don't have any definitive answer to the question of how many start/finish each year. I think that someone counts the entries at both borders but that number is imprecise since not everyone signs in and out.> > The bit of insight that I can lend is this. As of the end of Sept. the Stehekin Post Mistress, Adel, claimed to have received 300 packages. By the second week of Oct. over 80 boxes had not been picked up. Some people send more than one resupply box at a time, not everyone stops in Stehekin and so on, but I find it an interesting set of numbers nun the less.> > A heads-up to anyone planning to send packages to Stehekin. Don't count on the boxes being returned to you if you fail to pick them up. The post office feels that it is too expensive to ship 80+ boxes back down lake on the Lady Expess. They do hold the boxes for aprox. 6+ months before disposing of them. I know for a fact that they don't resell hiker goods in the store at the landing, but I can't guarantee that someone doesn't benifit from unclaimed boxes. > > Also, Melissa and I heard several complaints of resupply boxes being stolen... by other hikers we believe. We know of at least 3 hikers having their boxes coming up missing in Stehekin, and one being broken into. Stories of this having happened at several other stops on the trail this year leads me to belive that this is more of a trail wide problem than a Stehekin one. Many people have been using buckets and tool boxes as bounce boxes, one of the reasons is they can be locked up. I would hate to think that theft is a growing problem on the trail. > > At Kennedy Meadows in '06 I was pointed to a back room and told to go find my own box, unsupervised. If I were the dishonest type... > > I'm relating this so that people can consider the possiblity of this happening on the trip. If I had special medication needs I might reconsider trustin my meds. to the care of a small resort.> > chef> > ps> To: The sensitive reader> > No, this is not more fear mongering, just one more "Reality" of the trail. > > > > _________________________________________________________________> Hotmail? goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 > _______________________________________________> Pct-l mailing list> Pct-l at backcountry.net> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> > > >       > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:51:33 -0800> From: Brian Lewis <brianle8 at gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT Numbers & Stehekin P. O.> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID:> 	<bd5c16ca0902032051n1f919725naec1c53e8957742b at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > Jason wrote:> "I don't have any definitive answer to the question of how many start/finish> each year. I think that someone counts the entries at both borders but that> number is imprecise since not everyone signs in and out."> > > One factor here is that there's a trick to signing the register at the> Canadian border.  This is something that I hadn't heard of beforehand ---> the register is in the miniature Washington Monument.  The top comes off and> it's inside.    So while I was there, I didn't see the register and thus> didn't sign it (I wasn't going to walk back the 9 miles just to sign ...).> > Something to keep in mind for anyone that (however long or short their trip)> gets to the northern monument.> > > W.r.t. the Stehekin P.O., I happened to be there when some folks were> looking for their packages.   Because it's a tiny P.O., there were actually> packages stacked up outside the little P.O. office, though my vague> recollection is that packages didn't go missing during office hours (?).> The person running the post office gave the impression that this was> definitely unusual.   I think the big concern due to it being that> particular post office is that a lot of people mail their passport there.> I have no idea if it will be well secured for 2009, but this years class> might want to consider getting their passports at an earlier stop.   Or> perhaps call the Stehekin P.O. and ask if they ever figured out how the> packages were being taken in 2008 --- or if I remember correctly, sometimes> just opened, pilfered for obvious valuables, and taped shut.> > > Brian Lewis / Gadget '08> http://postholer.com/brianle> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:10:55 -0800> From: "Stephen" <reddirt2 at earthlink.net>> Subject: [pct-l] Mono Creek South at VVR Ford?> To: "PCT-1" <Pct-l at backcountry.net>> Message-ID: <001401c98686$faa9a010$498d8304 at Stephen>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"> > Someone mentioned Mono Creek on one of the other threads.  It's been nine or ten years since I rambled through there.  Is my memory failing too, I thought Mono Creek South was bridged.  Of course they have a way of getting loose.           > > ------------------------------> > Message: 7> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 22:21:07 -0700> From: jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>> Subject: [pct-l] Stehekin P. O.> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>> Message-ID: <COL109-W89A21BB50B64BD91BB339C1C30 at phx.gbl>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"> > > The Stehekin P. O. received 80 more packages in '08 than '07 (I happened to ask Adel if she was receiving more packages than last year, so she looked it up). The P. O. itself is very small, so most of the boxes are kept locked in rooms above the office where non postal workers have access.  > > Adel is a wonderful woman who truly loves hikers, but she is getting on in years and is only one person (another woman helps out once a week, Adel handles most of the boxes). To be honest she has become overwhelmed by the volume she is receiving.> > Melissa and I love Stehekin, and are even planning on returning there to live in 2010. That being said, I'm still planning on sending our passports somewhere else.> > jason> > _________________________________________________________________> Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009> > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Pct-l mailing list> Pct-l at backcountry.net> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> > > End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 27> *************************************
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