[pct-l] physiologic effects of icy cold immersion

[Stephen]

Like I suggested here or on another thread, find an alpine lake where you 
can jump in fully with an easy get out, and see for yourself how your body 
reacts.  I saw a beer can on the bottom of Long Lake (along Bishop Pass 
trail) a few years ago.  I had to get in the lake, swim out a little ways 
and dive down to get it, swimback and get myself out.  I got it, and I got a 
headache.  But it wasn't an enjoyable experience beyond feeling like I did 
the right thing.  And while I never felt scarred, I felt like it was very 
hard to get a breath.  I been in a lot of lakes.  Marjorie, Darwin chain, 
Wanda, Italy, and so many more.  That bathtub ring is probably from me.  I 
been surfing for something like thirty years.  I still don't care much for 
that feeling of lost control pitching around not knowing which way is the 
surface when getting pummeled by big waves.  Being held down in big winter 
surf and bouncing off the bottom etc is beyond description (but at least you 
then know where youare), but I am still greatly respectful of fast creeks. 
That moment of doubt when crossing a big creek can be helpful or hindrence. 
I akin it to those times when taking off on a nice big wave and having and 
making the mistake of second guessing.  That's ussually not a good ending. 
Once commited, go with the flow, be confident and regardless of being 
scarred you have business at hand to attend to.  Talk to yourself if need 
be.  I had my knees almost buckle crossing a wet log high above the San 
Juaquin near Blaney Hot Springs once.  Big log, no worries, "just walk on 
Stephen you are good at this."  If there is safer entry to a fast creek like 
bear, go out there and see what it's like, and if all good go back and get 
your pack.  If confidence isn't there don't do it until help arrives.  Scout 
up and down somewhile waiting.  Once I commit I take my mind quickly off the 
water and get my pack and shoes ready, stand up, look for my route and go on 
with it.  This creek crossing stuff is one reason I havenever tried the PCT 
big hike.  I've been in the Sierra too much at all differnent seasons and 
snow years to not have some amount of distaste for the promotion of thru 
hiking such varying conditions.  Jardine's book actually suggests that under 
heavy snow years it may well serve one to cancel until the following year. 
He promotes attempting no crossings over the knees and then only when 
confident.  People going out and risking thier lives in a place I hold near 
and dear has never sat well with me.  I keep hearing thisis supposed to be a 
low snow year. Well, last year was a low snow year,and we have varying 
statements of how the creeks were flowing.  My experience has been not so 
much how much snow, but that's a factor surely, but also similarly important 
is periods of heavy snow melt.  And while there may be low snow pack, there 
will be snow; it will melt, and sometimes there is late snow like this last 
season.  I'm not suggesting don't hike, in fact I encourage it, but do so 
with some amount of intelegence.  If the creeks are running good get more 
food, hike with others or plan to meet, have a bomb out contigency (bring 
extra food or emergency rations for two days).  So far I amplanning to gain 
the somewhere south of VVR, but all this creek crossing stuff is making me 
nervous, and will eventually cause me to quit the idea again and I wont get 
to meet any of you nice folks on my way to Ohrygon.  At least we're off the 
poison oak threads.  What else can we come with to kill my confidence. 
Maybe I should just start smoking Camels and eating chili fries.
Uhg,
Stephen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Melissa 'Liss' Cain" <melissa at pixysticks.net>
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] physiologic effects of icy cold immersion


> On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com
> <diane at santabarbarahikes.com> wrote:
>> Again this list fans the flames of fear. Please be realistic. We are
>> crossing Evolution Creek, Bear Creek, Mono Creek and whatever the
>> others were in the summer. We are not crossing some raging riving in
>> Alaska. We are not forging ahead into the unknown on some wild
>> expedition in the dead of winter. We do not have to be prepared for
>> every possible thing that can happen anywhere in the world. We are
>> all on a planned itinerary with known hazards. We only need discuss
>> the hazards we are actually likely to experience on the Pacific Crest
>> Trail.
>
> Yes and a fall into those creeks will cause the same reaction that
> they're discussing.  I understand that you feel that there is
> fearmongering on this list, but this is a very real danger any time
> that you're messing around in glacier fed water.  It doesn't have to
> be deep, it just has to be deep enough that if you fall in your body
> responds to the shocking cold.  I grew up in the mountains, creeks,
> and rivers of the Cascades and had this happen to me more than once,
> even though I spent most of my summers in the same water like a fish.
>
> It is a very real danger that if you fall in, you will not even think
> to unsnap your straps or do anything else to save yourself.  You'll be
> too busy gasping and quite likely sucking in water.  This is something
> that is important for people to know.
>
> Am I a little edgy about this?   Darn right, I am.  As a young adult,
> an acquaintance died in 4 feet of mountain creek due to exactly this
> issue - his pack forced his face into the water and he died without
> ever getting his head back above water.
>
> -- 
> Melissa 'Liss' Cain
> http://www.pixysticks.net/blog
>
> "Anywhere is walking distance, if you've got the time." - Steven Wright
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