[pct-l] Burying vs Packing Out TP

[AsABat]

Methinks the feds require all rules to be referenced to a reg in the CFR so that's what they do. 

As to carrying a trowel when camping I suspect they would respond to your argument with camping is prohibited unless you are carrying a trowel. That puts them in compliance with the reg cited. 

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Wright <gwtmp01 at mac.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 16:18:07 
To: PCT MailingList<pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burying vs Packing Out TP


On Dec 8, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Bill Burge wrote:
> For the San Gorgonio link, read down to the section "Waste":
> 
> It is a violation of (Federal Code) 36 CFR 261.57(g) to bury your  
> toilet paper in the San Gorgonio Wilderness.

Thanks for that pointer.  I find these sorts of legal details interesting. I was curious if that federal regulation was new and if it applied to all federally managed lands or just San Gorgonio or just wilderness areas or... If you don't find these sorts of details interesting, stop reading now.

It turns out that 36 CFR 261.57 simply permits the administrator of forest service lands to issue orders that prohibit certain activities in wilderness areas. Similarly 36 CFR 261.58 allows the administrator to issue orders regulating occupancy and use.  So it isn't really correct to say that 36 CFR 261.57(g), for example, prohibits the burying of toilet paper.  Section (g) just says that orders *can be issued* to prohibit "Disposing of debris, garbage, or other waste".  Also 36 CFR 261.58(e) doesn't require a hiker to carry a hand trowel but it does allow the administrator to issue orders prohibiting "camping".

This page <http://www.sgwa.org/regs.htm> starts with: "THE FOLLOWING ARE PROHIBITED BY THE FEDERAL CODE OF REGULATIONS (CFR)" and proceeds to refer to 36CFR261.58(e) as requiring "a shovel or hand trowel in possession for use in burying human waste".  That seems incorrect to me since that particular regulation just allows the administrator to prohibit camping. The activities can only be prohibited by a specific order and the nature and scope of the order is limited by those regulations.

So digging around some more I found some actual orders. For example <http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/about/forder3.shtml> is the order that requires "having a shovel or hand trowel in possession for burying human waste and fire control during overnight camping" and that order is pursuant to CFR 261.58(e).

It isn't clear to me that such an order is valid since the regulation just allows camping to be prohibited where as other subsections allow the details to be specified by the order.

So it seems to me that there is some sloppiness in the way the rules and regulations are being cited and that PCT hikers might be subject to many more rules than they are generally aware of.

Gary Wright (Radar)


_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l