[pct-l] Night hiking and rodents in food, p.s.

Fri Apr 3 09:15:42 CDT 2009

I carried a handgun for 35 years in my professional career and only once or
twice carried a firearm while backpacking.  To carry a weapon sufficient to
kill a large animal usually translates into a .357 magnum or larger at a
weight of about three pounds.  The likelihood that a hiker (trained in the
use of firearms or not) could	EFFECTIVELY hit a quickly moving target in
the night is extremely low.  I personally feel the best you could hope for
would be for the critter to be frightened off by the noise.  Then, there is
also the legal issue of carrying a concealed weapon without a permit.....

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of mark v
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 12:52 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net; Josh
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Night hiking and rodents in food, p.s.

I didn't say mountain lions don't live along the PCT.  I said that there
isn't a history of them attacking backpackers there.  There are specific
areas where mountain lions have taken to occasionally going after people,
but not along the PCT.  Just like bears in Yosemite vs. bears in say the
Siskiyous for example, how you approach things depends greatly on the
behavior of those animals in that specific area.

FWIW, i carry a small quickly-retractable sharp pocket-knife (some think it
looks like a switchblade) in safety lock in my hip pocket.  I think that's a
different story than a gun that takes time to load, and weights 10x as much.
Best of luck, and safe hiking to you!

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Josh <559josh at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Josh <559josh at gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Night hiking and rodents in food, p.s.
> To: "'mark v'" <allemande6 at yahoo.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 2:37 AM
> Mark,
> This is going from the practical to the absurd.  Walking
> around with a
> pulled knife or gun in hand???  C'mon!  I DO TOTALLY
> AGREE with U on the
> astronomical improbability of a mountain lion attack, but
> that's not the
> only practical reason to carry a gun or knife while on a
> trek through the
> wilderness.
> 
> The millions of hikers across the world can do whatever
> they please, but ME
> PERSONALLY, I listed the things that I wouldn't hike at
> night without.
> 
> Oh, and just to mention, Mountain Lions live ALL ALONG the
> PCT (even the
> desert portions to a lesser extent)...I'm not sure
> where U get the notion
> that they don't live there...they can be found at
> elevations up to 15,000ft
> according so some experts.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_lion#Distribution_and_habitat
> 
> Josh
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark v [mailto:allemande6 at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 12:09 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net; Josh
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Night hiking and rodents in food, p.s.
> 
> 
> Even a minimalist pack will make it hard for the lion  to
> reach the back of
> your neck area.  Are you going to walk around with the
> knife, gun, or pepper
> spray out and at the ready?  That's an accident waiting
> to happen, all for
> the sake of being ready for an astronomically rare
> occurrence:  a mountain
> lion pouncing on a backpacker.
> 
> Trekking poles are a help to some extent, and making
> yourself big when
> encountered.  Beyond that, if you're in an area you
> deem to be that much of
> a mountain lion risk area (which the PCT won't be),
> just don't night hike
> alone.
> 
> Call me a liberal, urban scaredy-bear, but hiking around at
> night by
> yourself with a loaded gun, or a pulled knife is stupid.
> 
> On a friendlier note, even though i've never heard of
> anyone first-hand
> who's encountered a mountain lion on the PCT, somebody
> said last year that
> the most common place to see them on the trail is the
> Marble Mountains in
> NoCal.  Can anyone confirm this as true?
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 4/3/09, Josh <559josh at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Josh <559josh at gmail.com>
> > Subject: RE: [pct-l] Night hiking and rodents in food,
> p.s.
> > To: "'mark v'"
> <allemande6 at yahoo.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 1:49 AM
> > Mark,
> > And once the mountain lion pounces on U and its 1st
> attempt is foiled 
> > by the pack, what is your defense in the pitch-black
> darkness of the 
> > mountains cuz he's sure not gonna run-off just cuz
> UR not dead yet???
> >  I mean, seriously,
> > if UR night-hiking, U prob have a minimalist pack, so
> 4 to 11oz would 
> > be a tiny weight for the safety.  Maybe if UR hiking
> in a small group, 
> > something like pepper spray or a gun would be
> unnecessary, but solo or 
> > hiking in a pair, I'd recommend SOMETHING...a
> knife is almost ALWAYS a 
> > good thing to carry with U anyways.
> > 
> > Mountain lions might be rare, but they are dangerous
> enough in the 
> > daytime when a rock or stick or something could be
> easily located to 
> > fight one off if it came to that, but in the darkness
> it's difficult 
> > enough to keep a steady footing & stay on the
> path...but to fight-off 
> > a lion?  I think not.
> > Let's say one was hiking in bear country where
> bears might be in 
> > contact with people from time to time so that
> they're not (as someone 
> > recently said) a Scaredy-bear...''
> > 
> > All I'm saying is that I wouldn't go
> night-hiking without AT LEAST a 
> > knife...but others might be more comfortable with a
> bottle of 
> > pepper-spray or a gun.
> > 
> > Josh
> >  
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
> > [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> > On Behalf Of mark v
> > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 11:13 PM
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Night hiking and rodents in food,
> p.s.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > One other thing.  I don't get the point of
> carrying a "weapon."  A 
> > mountain lion will have you knocked down before you
> have a chance to 
> > use it.  And other than a few very specific areas like
> Vancouver 
> > Island (not any PCT places), it's rare almost to
> the point of never 
> > that a mountain lion ambushes a backpacker.  We look
> too big and slow 
> > to be good prey.  Little kids running, yes.  Trail
> runners with no 
> > packs, yes.
> > Cyclists, yes.  But
> > backpackers...well, someone will link us to an article
> i suppose where 
> > it's happened, but i never have heard of it. 
> I've heard of plenty of 
> > stalkings, but the mountain lion usually decides
> we're not tasty 
> > enough.  That, and if a lion does ambush from above
> and behind (most 
> > common way), the pack is a good first line of defense.
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

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