[pct-l] lameness of pct2007 and law budget hiking

[evan battaglia]

Hi PCT list. First time poster here. I'm doing the PCT this year, though I haven't decided if I'm going SOBO or quitting work 1.5 months earlier and losing a couple grand. Sorry to start with start with a reply to controversial post...

Roni, While your language is a tad harsh, I can sympathize with some things you say...

> I'm not saying all couples are lame, but couples, especialy but not
> exclosively young couples, tend to be much more closed to interaction
> with other hikers. For them its more a couple experience than a social
> experience.
I did the JMT in 2006. I didn't meet too many going my direction (south), but most that I did were in groups, including many couples. I didn't talk to them all that much. VVR was a lonely place for a solo hiker. Last year I did a section of the AT (south) & Long Trail (north) -- completely different experience. There was a real community. I blame the fact that many started solo and that "groups" are looser. But also, it was just the difference in cultures between the trails (and the existence of shelters).

> I'm know that there were this year many hikers who should have been on
> a lower budget than mine (I actualy have money, I just try to spread
> it over more hiking seasons) 
I'll be in the same boat. I'm just cheap.

> Of what I've seen in it there is almost no mention of
> stealth camping sites in towns, which makes most people think there
> are none.
Would you like to share any of your favorites? (or will this ruin the stealthness of them?) Last year on the AT/LT I usually didn't stay overnight in town, but I imagine this is harder to do on the PCT. I did have to stealth in Burlington, VT (fun but a tad challenging)

Evan

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:10:50 +0200
> From: "roni h" <roni.h10000 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] lameness of pct2007 and law budget hiking
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> 	<86aa9d700801171610u5f30d806hf7cd09d0de04f817 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Seems like again, due to my confrontational and a highly abnoxious
> personality, I a have to write what many people think but are too nice
> to say. (At least what I think many think)
> This is what I wrote in the pct2007 group, which I consider to be on
> average the most lame group of thruhikers I've ever met:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "
> The fact that both medow-ed and I, who have an opposide perspective about
> most stuff, actualy agree about this subject, shows there must be
> something to it.
> what ed is saying in his nice, none confrontational way, I will repeat
> in my rude Israeli style. It looks like hikers in the last year or
> two are becoming increasingly lame, and are strongly loosing the sense
> of titenited community that used to be found amongst thruhikers in
> previous years.
> I don't know the pct group of 2006 but I there are 3 reasons I see of
> the apperent lameness of the 2007 group:
> 
> 1) There was an unusal amount of couples hiking the pct this year.
> I'm not saying all couples are lame, but couples, especialy but not
> exclosively young couples, tend to be much more closed to interaction
> with other hikers. For them its more a couple experience than a social
> experience. Again, I can show many exceptions for this rule, but as
> an average, I find thruhiker couples to be much more lame than single
> hikers
> 
> 
> 2) Almost all thruhikers I've seen this year were hiking an a much
> higher budget than I've seen in previous years, especialy 2003. More
> accuratly, the low to very low budget segment of hikers seemed to be
> completly missing. Tony and I were virtualy the only people I met who
> persistently stealth camped in towns. I think there might have been a
> few others but far less than I I've seen in normal years.
> One reason for that is possibly Yogi's hand book. Its a good book but
> its definetly geared towards the higher budget hikers who actualy buy
> the book. Of what I've seen in it there is almost no mention of
> stealth camping sites in towns, which makes most people think there
> are none.
> 
> You might think stealth camping and low budget hiking has nothing to
> do with lameness, but the truth is that if you think about a group of
> hikers, they will always be bounded much tighter together, if they end
> up having to stealth camp or sleep 6 in a motel room than if every
> single one of them ends up getting a motel room for himself.
> For me and Tony one of the most interesting chalenges in hiking is
> finding a good stealth site in a town.
> I'm know that there were this year many hikers who should have been on
> a lower budget than mine (I actualy have money, I just try to spread
> it over more hiking seasons) but they weren't very succeful in keeping
> to their budget, partly because everyone around them was on a higher
> budget.
> Stealth camping and low budjet hiking are aquired skills. without
> having anyone to show and teach you how you can easily thruhike on
> less than 10$ a day, and still enjoy it, You might never try.
> 
> 3) As I mentioned in the past, I saw an unusaly high sense of
> entitlment from hikers towards trail angels. Not from everyone, but
> >from more than I've ever seen before.
> Its probebly partly due to the abundence of trail magic but also has
> something to do with the almost complete lack of low budget hikers
> this year. Bluntly speaking, for a high budget hiker who stays in
> every motel, a trail angels house is basicaly just a free motel room.
>  For me, who didn't stay in a single motel room on the whole pct this
> year, a trail angels house is so much more, (inc' what might be the
> first real hot shower I had in a month or more)...
> I know this is a gross generalization, but its natural for people to
> appreciate more what they dont have normaly, than what they have.
> And so,generaly speaking, a low budget hiker tends to have a smaller
> sense of entitlement than a high budget one.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what the solution for this situation is. Definetly
> having pct 2007 hikers try to keep in contact with each other would
> help, but its probebly too late for that. People got used to not
> writing, finding excuses why not to write insted of why to write.
> 
> I do think that someone might want to give at the next kickoff a talk
> about low budget thruhiking on the pct (not me, because I'm probebly
> not going to be around there this year). Thats an aquired skill that
> seems to have all but disapperd from the pct, which is a real shame.
> 
> 
> Roni (in Israel)
> 
> 
> --- In PCT2007 at yahoogroups.com, "edfaubert" <edfaubert at ...> wrote:
> >
> > Roni is on to something, note i did not say Roni in ON something.
> > Many of the class of 07 were first time hikers on the PCT and had a
> > great time enjoying all the miles and the people you meet alone the
> > way. For many LDHs its the people you meet that makes a diference in
> > having an enjoyable time.
> > Having been envolved for over a decade with you folks i will say
> > there is a difference in the hikers of 07 and say 2000 or as Roni
> > said the 03 group. We still see at the KO folks who hiked years ago
> > still together as a group and keeping in touch. For whatever reason
> > and i have not heard a good explanation for this, times change and
> > the yearly folks hiking the trail change as well. Take the class of
> > 06 for example, after 02 we saw a class gift from them to the class
> > of 03, same for the next few years too. giving something back to the
> > next group of hikers coming behind you. When it was 06s turn to give
> > something back there was no takers offering some form of thank you
> > from the group. I think its only those of us who have been involved
> > with the hikers on the PCT for years and years that really see a
> > difference in the collective group of thru hikers.
> > Am i saying this is bad, well no,not at all. Roni had pointed out
> > something last summer about hikers in 07 (expecting) rides back to
> > the trail etc etc where when he hiked befor no one would have even
> > asked for a ride back to the trail.
> > That was then i know and now is now but still it beggs the question,
> > why have hikers changed in the past few years. Those of us older
> > folks who are into mangement positions talk a lot about the upcoming
> > generation of folks who just don't care about responibility
> > anymore... Is this same kernal of thought affecting the hiking world
> > too? And if it is, is it a bad thing or just something us older folks
> > have to readjust too.
> > Just some food for thought here....................and this is not to
> > say Roni is in anyway correct about anything, either.................
> >
> 

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